A bunch of Harvard students who think UBS is pro-genocide because it underwrote PetroChina’s listing on the Shanghai stock exchange this past month are taking a stand. They’re going to show up at a recruiting event being held by the Swiss bank tomorrow night at the Faculty Club and “get as much information as possible regarding UBS’s complicity in PetroChina’s ties to Sudan” and “rigorously question representatives [on the firm’s] role in securing the Sudanese government’s greatest benefactor such a lucrative deal.” While we encourage subversive demonstrations of any kind, and have in fact been told by sources from within UBS that they plan on giving the kids detailed information, including pie charts, on the various ways in which it is complicit with, nay, in favor of, funding murder, we at DealBreaker can’t help ask—are Harvard students really that dumb?
First of all, if you’re going to go after a bank for being pro-population restructuring, expose one nobody knows about, like Lehman Brothers, not the one that has a well-documented predilection for genocide (I’m referring to the Holocaust, of course, but also the employee suicides the bank has indirectly encouraged with its salary cap). B. Let’s assume for a second, that UBS is a little embarrassed by its role in the crisis in Darfur—in the grand scheme of the many, many things it has to be self-conscious about, of late, including multi-billion dollar writedowns, shitty bonuses, 1,500 layoffs, Dillon Read, etc., this is low on the list. Finally, the directive that students ought to “think twice about working for a company that underwrites genocide”? That’s a bit rich, not to mention presumptuous, considering that UBS isn’t even allowing its current class of first years to “get too comfortable.” And, okay, let’s say some of the Crimsons have already been offered positions—no one’s going to take a job at a bank that asks for money back in December, genocide or not. You don’t see any Harvard students refusing offers from $16.9 billion Goldman, despite its flagrant disregard for plant life in the outer reaches of Long Island, do you? The answer is no, you don’t. UBS was the safe, "we'd never work here anyway," move. But maybe that was part of their plan all along? It would be pretty sick and twisted, but that's a Harvard student for you. [Disclosure: John Carney attended Harvard for one semester in the early 90s.]
Shame On UBS [Harvard Crimson]
Posted by HAM'05 , Nov 13, 2007 3:33PM
they should simultaneously turn to their own cio and ask why such a large percentage of their portfolio is tied up in alternative investments which in turn participate in the very deal they are protesting.
damn liberal hippies
Posted by AJ , Nov 13, 2007 3:57PM
"Without the support of a western firm, PetroChina would have had to rely upon a Chinese investment bank, which would not have been able to provide the same level of financial expertise or resources. "
I'm sorry, but are the Crimson's editors saying that the Chinese are incapable of completing the offering without the white man's help? F'ing racists.
Posted by Matt , Nov 13, 2007 4:03PM
Taking the same logic forward, I wonder if any of these morally upright individuals has ever used gas or any other petroleum product (HUGE portion of money redirected towards funding terrorists). I mean PetriChina doesn't sustain genocide in Darfur, consumers of the oil that PetroChina and other companies sell sustain genocide/terrorism whatever everywhere.
So instead of taking on another poor band of sissy bankers (most likely themselves alumni of the same school), why not do the real thinig? Just stop using gas. There, genocide gone!
Someone should seriously please put up the profiles and backgrounds of these great individual somewhere - let us know more about the lives and ways of these humanist.
Hopefully they have never wasted $$ getting smaeshed over scorpion bowls at the hongkong while children were dying of starvation in somalia (if we were to for a minute forgive the 150k spent on a fluffy MBA when that would probably feed 100 starving villages in ethiopia for years to come.)
Seriously, damn hypocritical liberal hippies.
Posted by pierre , Nov 13, 2007 4:08PM
go work for an NGO making $35k then. these kids are naive enough to believe UBS gives a shit about their "concerns." and where do they think their abercrombie & fitch is made, south carolina? try a chinese sweatshop.
Posted by anon , Nov 13, 2007 4:12PM
kudos to both sides.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 4:21PM
How the hell do their parents pay for their 40k+/yr tuition & expenses? By ripping off poor people all around the world. Half the families in US, and probably 90% in the entire world could live for a year that's spent after one of these clowns learning History.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 4:26PM
Anonymous Crimson writer said "Businesses like UBS have a duty to uphold certain ethical standards that do not waver no matter the profit on the line. "
Someone has to get details on these moral warriors. Where did they go for their undergrads, where did they work before business school, how did they come up with the 100k+, where do they plan to work after school, do they lead spartan lifestyles etc etc.
Come on, there has to be at least one non-hippie in hbs.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 4:29PM
I don't think they're going to win points with the recruiters. Though they've probably convinced each other that this idiocy will demonstrate their "leadership skills" to UBS.
Posted by InsureTHIS , Nov 13, 2007 4:31PM
@ Anon 4:21 - try more like 99.9%
Posted by Go to Hell , Nov 13, 2007 4:32PM
Let me tell you about your blood, bamboo kid
It aint coca cola, it's rice.
Posted by Yo! MG , Nov 13, 2007 4:35PM
Yeah, yeah, yeah. As much as I hate Harvard liberals, I hate HR people (esp at UBS) just as much. These two groups are just made for each other. Give 'em hell, Harvard! Don't give 'em jobs, UBS - the world needs barristas! If we could only convince them to hold this meeting in Darfur, maybe we could get rid of two unfortunately groups at once!
Posted by Harvard History major on Wall Street , Nov 13, 2007 4:40PM
All of you haters should stop being classist and dare I say, anti-intellectual.
First of all, not everyone from Harvard is a liberal hippie. Second of all, while many who have attended Harvard have liberal leaning social politics (or merely anti-genocide leaning politics... ps, when did wanting to stop genocide make one a bleeding heart liberal?), not everyone is inclined to participate in IDIOTIC-merely-for-show demonstrations like these kids.
It's true: UBS probably doesn't give a shit that a bunch of liberal Harvard kids think their business is killing Africans. But, despite the actions of this very small slice of the Harvard population doing something pretty silly and useless, we should not assume that Harvard students are all "hypocritical liberal hippies" (thanks, Matt!) or the children of rich parents who "rip off poor people all around the world" (4:21). For every Natalie Portman or son of a rich mogul who goes to Harvard there are dozens of kids from middle-income to low-income families who are on FINANCIAL AID and are only at Harvard because they're smarter, more talented, and more driven than you.
Finally, obviously I resent 4:21's post about being a "clown learning history" because History is what I studied (PS, Lloyd Blankfein studied social studies, which is hilariously euridite combo of gov't, econ and history found only at the big H) at Harvard and I'm going to make BANK trading options at GS this year.
Piss off you moronic haters.
-J '07
Posted by Herr Commandant , Nov 13, 2007 4:41PM
Do you really steenk vee give a sheet about your stupid liberal crusade? Vat? You are crazy unt soft, you Americans! Vee are Sviss! Vee are UBS! You unt Us!
Posted by pierre , Nov 13, 2007 4:43PM
these gotta be undergrads who think they can make a "difference." even the most liberal student at HBS would be realistic enough to realize this grandstanding won't change anything.
Posted by Yo! MG , Nov 13, 2007 4:47PM
Anyone up for combing Facebook for douchebags who have first or last names starting with "J", graduated Harvard in '07, majored in History, and now work trading options at Goldman? Oh, yeah - he's making BANK too (at least until he is outed).
$10 to the winner.
I suspect this kid is just pissed that his Halloween party from Worcester made it to Dealbreaker earlier today!
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 4:48PM
you sound insecure J'07; you feel inadequate next to your colleagues with real majors?
i studied social studies in 6th grade. probably just as challenging a major at harvard
Posted by 4:21 Anon , Nov 13, 2007 4:52PM
I call Harvard History Major a clown, and rightfully so, because the only reason you made it to Wall Street with a History major is because you went to Harvard. Try selling your merit and hard work with a History degree from South Dakota State University to Wall Street. And no, the rich:poor in Harvard is not 1:12, more like the other way around.
Posted by Professor , Nov 13, 2007 4:53PM
Professor: You people get off my property!
Hippie: You can't own property, maaan!
Professor: Sure I can, but that's because I'm not a penniless hippie!
Posted by pierre , Nov 13, 2007 4:59PM
J'07, the size options trader at goldman, said there were "dozens" of middle class kids at harvard for every rich one, so that puts his rich:poor ratio at least at 1:24. if you believe that i have some AAA-rated subprime debt to sell you. assclown
Posted by Powell , Nov 13, 2007 5:01PM
Though annoying protests get the thumbs down,
Harvard history major >>> Wharton or NYU business major
It's a lot cooler to get the same Wall Street job while studying more interesting material in college.
And let's be honest, some of this stuff has historically been meaningful. Im glad annoying hippies protested firms that invested in South Africa back in the 1980's.
Posted by Edward , Nov 13, 2007 5:02PM
Basic math isn't a requirement for liberal arts majors.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:02PM
4:35, I don't think they'll be sending HR personnel to this event. Have you ever been to one of these things?
Posted by voice of moderation , Nov 13, 2007 5:03PM
i don't like im any more than you guys do, but here are the stats:
Two thirds of all undergraduates receive some form of scholarship, loans and/or jobs.
Half receive need-based Harvard Scholarship aid, totaling over $95 million.
One quarter of the families receiving need-based scholarship assistance from Harvard have incomes greater than $130,000.
One fifth of families qualify for the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, where parents with total incomes less than $60,000 are expected to pay nothing.
So clearly the dude was exaggerating or a dumb ass, but there seem to be a number of poorer kids at Harvard.
http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/fact_sheet.htm
Posted by pierre , Nov 13, 2007 5:05PM
@ Powell...curious that these hippies didn't protest the Soviet gulags in the '60s or tyranny in Cuba back in the '80s. I guess left-wing terror = good, right-wing terror = bad.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:07PM
2:1 is a far cry from 24:1
Posted by dozens? , Nov 13, 2007 5:09PM
because when i say "dozens" i am LITERALLY meaning "TWELVE" on the dot, huh?
see, that's the sad part of the finance/accounting/non-liberal arts majors posting on dealbreaker: you interpret everything too literally. take a few liberal arts courses and you'll realize that "dozens" is a figurative term used to denote MANY and not literally multiples of twelve.
Posted by Matt , Nov 13, 2007 5:10PM
and I'm going to make BANK trading options at GS this year
Who said anything about liberal hippies not making money? They absolutely go out there and make money using the most capitalist methods and yet profess extreme socialism wherever they go. That my dear friend is called H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y and is exactly what is being called out.
Liberals want intellectual property rights of pharmaceutical companies to be abolished in poor countries. Yet, the liberal bastions of software and entertainment sustain themselves globally through enforcement of the same intellectual property with the full might of the United States.
They berate Wall Street for large bonuses. However, the hedonistic lifestyles of the entire entertainment industry (almost entirely liberal and not even a contributor to any gain in economic value of the society) are given a complete pass.
Bono the erudite intellectual liberal wants want 1% of US taxpayer money to be sent to Africa and all of the tax-payer backed debt to be cancelled. Yet he parks all his own wealth in offshore tax shelters.
Google owners demonstrate 'concern for the environment' by granting employees discounts for purchasing hybrids. Yet they but a friging 200-seater 757 as a private jet!
And one can go on and on about the liberal charade.
Why dont you guys just accept the fact that everyone (you included) wants a good life for himself. Stop faking concern and if you really are concerned, act on it instead of shoving it down other people's throats.
In this very specific case, either just dont buy gas or on a more sissy level, dont apply for a job at UBS!
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:10PM
also, bess is right-- these kids are pussies and would never take a stand against goldman, "despite its flagrant disregard for plant life in the outer reaches of Long Island."
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:10PM
What the fuck is a history major doing trading options at GS? Did you even do introductory calculus?
Posted by anonymous , Nov 13, 2007 5:11PM
There's a pattern here- someone actually makes an intelligent comment, and the rest of you (who are clearly jealous/inferior/went to shit schools/work at bear) rip him to shreds and call him an ass clown because you have no better retort.
Posted by hilarious , Nov 13, 2007 5:12PM
"[Disclosure: John Carney attended Harvard for one semester in the early 90s.]"
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:15PM
I think J'07 must be less of an options trader and more of an order taker / data entry clerk ... Otherwise, it would be like taking a legally blind (Harvard) English major and letting him pilot an F16 without any training whatsoever ... If that's how the world works then I'm going to shoot myself.
Posted by multivariable, linear algebra , Nov 13, 2007 5:16PM
again, smarter than you.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:18PM
darling bess went to a liberal arts school, be nice, guys
Posted by Powell , Nov 13, 2007 5:19PM
to Pierre,
True, annoying hippies were not protesting Soviet gulags and tyranny in Cuba; the US government did a pretty good job of voicing (and acting on) US dislike for those practices.
Look, there is something to be said for kids who want everyone to live a better life and who think they are fighting the good fight, no matter how distateful you (or I) may find them to be. Students protests have helped along a lot of good, meaningful change in this country.
I remember when I was talking to one of my friend's hippie sister who accused me (lightheatedly) of "working for the man" because I work on wall street. To a certain extent (unless you are a retail broker), we are all helping the rich get richer, no need to disparage (too much) those who think they are trying to help the poor do better.
Posted by Yo! MG , Nov 13, 2007 5:22PM
@5:11
While the chap from Haavard may have made same vaguely intelligent sounds, he really opened himself up to justified mockery once he closed his comments with "I studied (PS, Lloyd Blankfein studied social studies, which is hilariously euridite combo of gov't, econ and history found only at the big H) at Harvard and I'm going to make BANK trading options at GS this year."
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:22PM
"If you're not a rebel by 20, you've got no heart. If you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains." --Winston Churchill
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:23PM
"because when i say "dozens" i am LITERALLY meaning "TWELVE" on the dot, huh?
see, that's the sad part of the finance/accounting/non-liberal arts majors posting on dealbreaker: you interpret everything too literally. take a few liberal arts courses and you'll realize that "dozens" is a figurative term used to denote MANY and not literally multiples of twelve."
J'07, are you really that retarded? How in hell did you get into Harvard? How did you ever get OUT of Harvard? And how did you get to be a GS options trader? Are you just making all this shit up? Because "dozens" specifically means AT LEAST 24. Only an innumerate assclown would describe a quantity less than 24 as "dozens." That would as as stupid as describing "$1.5 million" as "millionS" or "several million" ... Are you starting to get the hang of this counting business?
Apparently numeracy and a precise command of language are the sort of skills that aren't very high up on the agenda at the GS options desk.
Posted by 4:21 South Dakota?? , Nov 13, 2007 5:25PM
"I call Harvard History Major a clown, and rightfully so, because the only reason you made it to Wall Street with a History major is because you went to Harvard. Try selling your merit and hard work with a History degree from South Dakota State University to Wall Street."
dude, i went to 'nova and i thought it was pretty tough... you gotta admit, just getting into Harvard is pretty damn hard just for starters.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:30PM
Didn't Cramer go to Harvard? He's literally working as a clown these days, right?
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:32PM
J '07, you made great points, your little dig about making the $$$ at GS was a petty ending to an otherwise great post.
However, looking past that, while I lean a little further right than you (I reckon), I think I could carry an intelligent conversation about these issues with you than some others on the board. Unless if you are in fact as arrogant and impatient with lesser minds as your tone suggests...
Matt 5:10 also makes some good points. The purchase of one 757 by the big dogs of Google effectively canceled out any effect their employees buying hybrids would have. And our great spokesperson on global warming, Al Gore, has with his private jet setup put more carbon dioxide in the sky in 2 years than most Americans will do in a lifetime. Or the other pols who shop up to a global warming chat in the SUVs. Lovely, isn't it?
And, just to stir the waters, I've found it only slightly ironic that the same people who march on UBS against the murder in Darfur (where's the "quality of life" argument used to justify these murders in Sudan?) are the same who rally in order to protect the elimination of millions of fetuses right here at home. Maybe potential life, maybe equal to 1/2 a human life, or whatever depending on your standard...but you of course know my prenatal care is your abortion. And so we sit back and raise awareness on Darfur when multiple Darfurs happen right here at home.
Posted by Anon , Nov 13, 2007 5:35PM
J'07: Fine, GS S&T analysts will most likely be pulling 60K + 10K bonus + year-end bonus (most likely to be on the lower end after all the turmoil) but at the same time, a History major at Harvard does not get to open his mouth about being a history major and "making it in the world against all odds" (maybe if you went to UMass instead).
From my experience, S&T analysts #1 job is to not F-things up, make sure trades go through, lunch for the real traders is ordered on time, and in general make themselves useful (you know, real baller stuff).
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:35PM
5:32, you're comparing abortion to genocide? I only agree with you on one point: the part about having a "lesser mind."
Posted by Anon 4:21 , Nov 13, 2007 5:35PM
George Bush got his undergrad from in Yale in History and went to Harvard Business School. I hope it was for his brains. Get the idea?
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:53PM
5:35, this is 5:32. So one group has a voice, the other doesn't. If a doctor providing prenatal care screws up and the child dies, the parents would be inclined to sue.
If you really believe that a person magically becomes human once born, even if fully formed and can survive outside the womb at around 5 months, then someone in Darfur can rule a people group less than human and also magically say these people can be eliminated as well.
Hitler, survival of the fittest, bla bla bla. Does that mean if I beat you up enough so you are no longer self-sufficient without the aid of another, that makes you automatically non-human?
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:56PM
5:35, perhaps you have a better slogan for Darfur? "Genocide: it's too bad they weren't aborted."
Then take your picket sign to the Sudanese government and UBS...it will be very effective indeed.
Posted by anon anon anon , Nov 13, 2007 5:56PM
so much passion ... for this.
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 13, 2007 5:57PM
@ 5:15 - Best comment here by far. And no, I am not going to add anything useful (beyond that second) to the conversation, if it can even be called that).
PZ
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 5:57PM
5:30 - dying homeboy, that was hilarious.
I still have NEVER read a piece by him in which he didn't mention the big H or gs
Posted by Educate the best , Nov 13, 2007 6:10PM
With the largest of all the university endowments (approx. $25 bil.?), why isn't Harvard free? I mean, at least for undergrads?
Posted by Finn , Nov 13, 2007 6:15PM
Or a variation on 5:56:
"Prevent Genocide, Abort a Darfurian"
Posted by the true genius , Nov 13, 2007 6:23PM
"Prevent Genocide, Abort a Darfurian"
LMAO
Posted by H Grad , Nov 13, 2007 6:39PM
6:10: Harvard already provides more than enough financial aid for everyone who is truly interested in attending. Making it free would be a big mistake, because the sort of high school student who turns down Harvard to save money is not the sort of student who should be at Harvard in the first place (even if he has perfect SATs, etc.).
Posted by AJ , Nov 13, 2007 6:46PM
6:39 - Why doesn't Harvard then use the money to stop Darfur?
Posted by UBS 07 , Nov 13, 2007 8:15PM
Yo! MG,
UBS HR for IBD are the hottest of the recruiters I've seen..and ironically the nicest.
Anyway I doubt there will be any HR there as Harvard is the most desired recruiting spot for MDs and they won't waste spots on HR.
Amusing note: UBS for Harvard students=failure For summer group placements Harvard kids got the tops spots (PE, PF, GIG, Healthcare) and half did not get offers because they were overrated by their alumni.
Didn't get into Harvard, would have gone had I. Still Harvard kids generally overrated, while Umich and UVA kids seemed the most prepared. When it comes down to it Harvard kids get more opportunties, but are held to higher standard. Sink or swim.
Posted by UBS 07 , Nov 13, 2007 8:16PM
Yo! MG,
UBS HR for IBD are the hottest of the recruiters I've seen..and ironically the nicest.
Anyway I doubt there will be any HR there as Harvard is the most desired recruiting spot for MDs and they won't waste spots on HR.
Amusing note: UBS for Harvard students=failure For summer group placements Harvard kids got the tops spots (PE, PF, GIG, Healthcare) and half did not get offers because they were overrated by their alumni.
Didn't get into Harvard, would have gone had I. Still Harvard kids generally overrated, while Umich and UVA kids seemed the most prepared. When it comes down to it Harvard kids get more opportunties, but are held to higher standard. Sink or swim.
Posted by Matt , Nov 13, 2007 9:07PM
If anyone at UBS had any balls then they would deliver the smackdown to these hippies at the presentation. Wouldn't hurt to dig up some background on the specific hippies and their lifestyles though - just like they will for the UBS deal, and I am certain that the dissonance between their utterings and their actions will be mindblowing.
Best course of action is to confront these people face on and expose their hypocrisy. They also want their money and comfort and luxuries through whatever means possible but will attack others for being greedy and in general try to act holier than thou.
Unfortunately in the politically correct world that we live in, UBS will most likely be apologetic or try to push the issue under the carpet through obfuscation.
No one has the balls to stand up and proclaim that yes, we do it for money and for ourselves - come prove how ANY aspect of your sheltered pseudo-liberal lives has been dedicated to the pursuit of anything else.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 11:18PM
Wait, I thought the carnage in the Sudan started because of diamonds -- oil was an afterthought. Why aren't these little tools protesting DeBeers? And also, getting snotty with some recruiters will not make your point. Picket or hunger strike or self-immolate, you argumentative little cowards.
Posted by , Nov 13, 2007 11:18PM
Wait, I thought the carnage in the Sudan started because of diamonds -- oil was an afterthought. Why aren't these little tools protesting DeBeers? And also, getting snotty with some recruiters will not make your point. Picket or hunger strike or self-immolate, you argumentative little cowards.
Posted by Nemo Incognito , Nov 13, 2007 11:22PM
They are all trying to do something that will get them into law school. I graduated in 2005 and one girl got ejected from Wen Jiabao's speech and subsequently got into HLS despite not being that sharp. They're only as dumb as law school admission committees.
Posted by SlashAndBurn , Nov 13, 2007 11:29PM
Channeling UBS recruiter: "What?"
Posted by , Nov 14, 2007 9:32AM
"First of all, if you’re going to go after a bank for being pro-population restructuring, expose one nobody knows about, like Lehman Brothers, not the one that has a well-documented predilection for genocide"
i thought this was so funny
Posted by Anonymous , Nov 14, 2007 11:17AM
Did Harvard History major on Wall Street actually say that only Harvard offers social studies?
Posted by Anonymous , Nov 14, 2007 11:17AM
Did Harvard History major on Wall Street actually say that only Harvard offers social studies?
Posted by David Dardashti , Nov 14, 2007 1:43PM
I went to BU.
Posted by DD , Nov 14, 2007 1:45PM
I went to BU. Blow me.
Posted by Hearthy Goodness , Nov 15, 2007 3:29PM
UBS stands for:
United
Bi
Sexuals
Posted by , Nov 16, 2007 9:20AM
You guys are all really gullible.
J'07 doesn't work at Goldman. He is just trying to throw you off.
I bet he is in Fixed Income or Debt Capital Markets at Merrill (I get that sense from his tone) and is very jealous of his friends that actually will make BANK at GS.