The Swiss And Disaster

When the Swiss are worried, you really need to watch it.

No lesser financial news giant than Forbes reports (via Thomson Financial News) that former Credit Suisse CEO Oswald Gruebel (a likelier name for the antagonist in a spy novel with a plotline involving stolen gold you have probably never encountered) quipped "We've narrowly escaped a system collapse. This has never happened before." One is tempted immediately to think of World War II, the Great Depression, the Cuban Missile crisis, but this ignores the "system collapsiness" of these events from the Swiss View. To the Swiss these are but small tremors. Trifles.

So the next time someone tells you the sub-prime mess is overblown, or that Bear Stearns should have been allowed to fail, just point them to Oswald Gruebel, and remind them that the primary Swiss concern with World War II was that it increased shipping costs.

International Financial System Was Close To The Brink [Forbes]

Comments

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 8:51AM

Talk about system collapses! Look at the Wall Street Journal. I opened my home delivery issue this morning and there's another fucking political discussion on the front fucking page!
It's sad to see the WSJ become a dittohead in its old age.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:12AM

"...the primary Swiss concern with World War II was that it increased shipping costs."

Ok, THAT was good. Nice work, EP.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:12AM

Wow.........home delivery........wow....I'm speechless......

Posted by american bandersnatch, Apr 24, 2008 9:15AM

Excellent from start to finish. Keep 'em short and sweet EP. You're more effective when you hit singles and doubles rather than swing for the fences.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:20AM

Great stuff. Perfect morning length. The clause in parentheses in the 1st paragraph could be shorter, but keep at it.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:30AM

didn't the Swiss have to mobilize like 50% of the adult male population to guard their borders again Germany (before capitulating and offering uninspected swiss transit to nazi railcars in exchange for nominal independence) ?

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:31AM

he looks nothing like Hans Gruber.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:31AM

DB should try offering home delivery. Like delivering BL to my apartment tomorrow morning.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:36AM

Pulitzer Prize material:
"So the next time someone tells you the sub-prime mess is overblown, or that Bear Stearns should have been allowed to fail, just point them to Oswald Gruebel, and remind them that the primary Swiss concern with World War II was that it increased shipping costs."
I think whatever was in your coffee EP really helped the poetic value.

"To the Swiss these are but small tremors. Trifles." Reminds me of the Merovingian in the Matrix - it is nothing, a trifle.

-dantheman

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:37AM

Being assigned to a trading desk in Switzerland is awful. The rich guys import all their 20 year old American sweeties to work as personal assistants and you're stuck in time zone hell between Asian and American markets. Awful.

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 9:46AM

"didn't the Swiss have to mobilize like 50% of the adult male population to guard their borders again Germany (before capitulating and offering uninspected swiss transit to nazi railcars in exchange for nominal independence) ?"

Foolish non-Swiss person. Adult males are by definition "mobilized" when they reach the age of majority.

The result of a large belligerent on the other side of the Alps who relied for their military power mostly on quick thrusts with armor entirely unsuited for traversing mined, pre-targeted mountain passes, was a vague and distant sense of amusement- not much else.

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 9:46AM

"To the Swiss these are but small tremors. Trifles." Reminds me of the Merovingian in the Matrix - it is nothing, a trifle."

I was thinking of O'Toole in Lawrence of Arabia.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:49AM

I have a special tool for Lawrence.

Gay Guy from Delaware

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 9:53AM

"I have a special tool for Lawrence."

So did the Governor of Deraa.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:59AM

I think I have a crush on EP now. Girls who know their WWII history are hawt.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:04AM

ep I take exception to your calling me "Foolish" if you are going to be factually inaccurate about it.

For the record, in 1939 the vaunted Swiss army rounded up over 400,000 swissmen and stationed them right on the border. Of course, a small division of motorized Wermacht could have still taken most of the country, or at least its population centers.

The point remains however that a 38 year old man sitting in his cabin drinking chocolate is not considered mobilized.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:12AM

@9:59 she is obviously a dilettante but still pretty good for a woman

Posted by Novice, Apr 24, 2008 10:13AM

Courtesy of 9:31 I've got this image of Alan Rickman shouting "Orrinz!" across the empty desert.

Posted by JorgeCad, Apr 24, 2008 10:15AM

Anyone that has had the good fortune to visit Swissie knows that CH is one of the most highly fortified nations on earth. Compulsory military service until 55, hidden gun emplacements on highway passes, hidden runways etc etc
There is a good reason that all the rogues deal with Swissie, they know they will always be there.

Posted by american bandersnatch, Apr 24, 2008 10:15AM

ep - I believe most research indicates that Lawrence made up the part about the Governor. While a great writer,soldier and adventurer, he was one whacky dude who embellished much of the seven pillars.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:17AM

@novice those were both great movies.

Shoot the glass!

Posted by big r, Apr 24, 2008 10:19AM

@ 9:59 - agreed

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:21AM

Careful, EP. Give us too much focused, accurate information and we will be able to triangulate certain aspects of your true identity, like your place of birth and nationality.

We Germans may be unsubtle and obvious, but we are not stupid.

Cordially,
E.J.E. Rommel

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:22AM

@8:51

Election news is news, and the prospective candidates views on taxes/economy/businesses make them relavent to readers of the Wall Street Journal.

Posted by Anal_yst, Apr 24, 2008 10:33AM

@ 10:22, which is why A-section is such a quick skim, er, read I meant...

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 10:37AM

"The point remains however that a 38 year old man sitting in his cabin drinking chocolate is not considered mobilized."

I think you need to spend more time on the rifle range with the Swiss, or in the library. It's worth mentioning that when German soldiers with MP-40s took over the American Embassy in France it was a Swiss diplomat who expelled them, single handedly, with his Swiss Army Knife.

The non-Swiss definition of "mobilization" bears precisely no resemblance to the actions of the Swiss military starting in 1939 after the invasion of Poland. When it is said that the Swiss were fully mobilized "in days" after the decision to act in 1939, this should be plain.

Also, this contention that the Swiss intended to conduct a fortified border defense against the Germans is at wild variance with the facts.

In fact, the country was positioned for an extensive and prolonged resistance based from the "Réduit national," rather than a head-to-head struggle. "400,000 swissmen" were never "stationed right on the border," much less pulled from the country in two days in order to do so. This is easy to intuit if you remember that army and militia never much exceeded 430,000 in these times. Eventually you could count 850,000- but only later, and then only because ever member of the citizenry was ordered to resist "to the last cartridge" the invaders and also told that any order to surrender would be enemy propaganda. I wouldn't trade places with the Generalfeldmarschall responsible for the pacification of Switzerland for all the gold in Zurich.

Even so, Operation Tannenbaum was almost certainly impossible once Barbarosa was undertaken, the manpower simply did not exist and even the later (and wildly optimistic) 1944 SS plan for invasion predicted 800,000 - 1.2 million casualties.

Instead of reading Wikipedia on these issues, try Guisan's biography- and be careful who you accuse of factual inaccuracies. You might just challenge someone who wrote their thesis on the issue without knowing it.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:38AM

"involving stolen gold you have probably never encountered." Perhaps you should have worked with that sentence a bit more? I, among many, have never encountered stolen gold.

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 10:40AM

"ep - I believe most research indicates that Lawrence made up the part about the Governor. While a great writer,soldier and adventurer, he was one whacky dude who embellished much of the seven pillars."

I was talking about O'Toole- not Lawrence literally. The real Lawrence probably exaggerated the story to inflame popular opinion against certain Arab radicals (who he alleged betrayed him in the incident) and then ripped the operative pages out of his diary.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:49AM

@10:33 Its been reported that the whole point of the makeover is to make the paper more breezy. Digistible for the multitasking, ADD-addled Ipod generation. Good luck with that. Don't count myself among them, but I confess that the articles were getting a bit windy.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:51AM

Peter O'Toole......now that was a name!

Posted by Sledgehammer, Apr 24, 2008 10:53AM

The Swiss are nothing if frugal. It is a Calvinist principle that there is an entrance fee to heaven to keep the riff-raff out.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 10:56AM

-40 (C or F, your choice), keeps the riff raff out of North Dakota.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:04AM

I heart ep now and forever after that verbal beatdown she just handed out...

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:15AM

Seems like an odd thesis for someone who majored in hopelessly obscure foreign poets.

It also seems odd to me that despite the 1939 border mobilization, and the timing of Henri Guissan's development of the reduit concept in 1940, you are claiming that soldiers were already deployed for this effect? Unlikely at best, but I acknowledge the possibility of a coincidence.

If you were not so hot under the collar at even the notion of being challenged factually, you would note I never contended the Swiss intended a fortified border defense with their woefully under-equipped "soldiers," only that they were stationed there, and all your discussion following from this straw man is unnecessary. In fact some sort of delaying force would be necessary anyway, a service for which the grenzbrigade was conceived. If I am recalling correctly the plan was always to retreat to the hills and blow up bridges and tunnels on the way to the (not very deep) rear. The Swiss army -if you can call it that - was not even strong enough to man its whole line, and had to request the aid of the French to fill some gaps in the event of an actual German invasion.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:21AM

The Swiss & French - now theres a might military combo!

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:25AM

Here we go. Even as of June 1940, most forces stationed at the norther borders.

http://www.schweiz1940.ch/limmat40-en/index.htm

Following fall of France, Swiss forces finally collapse to the interior

http://www.schweiz1940.ch/limmat40-en/index.htm

Please feel free to dispute these sources if you wish, it is the best I can provide you anonymously and over the internet. Either way, I think this should be at a minimum enough to show the mountain gnomes clearly had more concerns than the cost of shipping at this particular moment in history.

This was fun, I hadn't looked at this stuff in years.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:27AM

oh perfect ... here is the 1939 mobilization. here we are still looking at basically an omnidirectional border disposition of fighting forces.

http://www.schweiz1940.ch/limmat40-en/index.htm

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:31AM

"...be careful who you accuse of factual inaccuracies. You might just challenge someone who wrote their thesis on the issue..."

writing a thesis on a particular subject does not imply extensive research, or even any intelligence, from the abundance of mediocre dissertations out there.

not saying you're wrong or right about the rendition of facts. i wouldn't know.

Posted by Anal_yst, Apr 24, 2008 11:33AM

I love when a quasi-finance, kind of relevent piece devolves into some sort of mostly-unrelated history/philosophy/political pissing contest. Keep it up (although EP, I believe - even though I'm not as up on my Swiss history - layed the smacketh down on someone's candy ass, above)

Posted by StupidEquityGuy, Apr 24, 2008 11:36AM

Hey, those are my private golf course plans... how did you get a copy? They are supposed to be safely stored in my swiss bank box.

~SEG

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 11:40AM

"Seems like an odd thesis for someone who majored in hopelessly obscure foreign poets."

I'm not sure what you conclude from a thesis topic being at variance from one's undergraduate major- unless there is some form of undergraduate program that emphasizes the thesis after a 4 year degree?

You are confusing the "reduit concept" (itself a mistranslation- and it should be capitalized) with the use of "Réduit national." The former being a Summer 1940 invention. The later being much older.

As to, "woefully under-equipped, soldiers," I suppose this is a reference to the German superiority in armor and air, both fairly useless in Switzerland. Certainly you don't mean Swiss small arms, which were vastly superior to their German counterparts (and the Germans knew it). Nor are you referring, I suspect, to uniforms (the Germans had little in the way of cold weather gear, except for their Gebirgsjäger troops, few and far between, their plight in Russia would highlight this) or anything else of use in Switzerland.

The Grenzbrigade system was conceived in 1935 and deployed in 1938, so I'm not sure what you think you are talking about here. Certainly, it never constituted anything near 400,000 troops "stationed right on the border" head to head with the Germans.

In fact, about every "fact" you assert is easily disabused by looking at the the map of Swiss Operationsbefehl 1, which was followed almost to the letter in 1939.

Operationsbefehl 2 is about as close as Switzerland got to the concentration you describe. That lasted only a few months.

But, you wouldn't know this from Wikipedia. Luckily, I have a copy of the deployment diagrams.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5215/opbf1uz8.jpg

Anyhow, suffice it to say, your view of the mobilization and deployment of Swiss forces, as well as their strategic and tactical doctrine, leaves much to be desired.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:43AM

Anal_yst, all you gotta do is look at the maps. I know everyone loves ep but until I see a different source, I am sticking by my position that 1939 was mostly a border mobilization and to my knowledge at least, unlike canadians, these people don't already live right up against the border, so yes this is a mobilization.

EP definitely did smack down a point I never made though. I give her full credit for that!

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 11:43AM

Ah, good show, DB readers!

Why are you all toiling in the bowels of finance?

Posted by girl, Apr 24, 2008 11:45AM

@ Anal_yst

Lay down the flipping law, how dare people be interested in things other than finance

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:47AM

Luckily, we have both produced the same exact deployment diagram, and if you are so married to your idea that there was no mobilization, that people just grabbed their rifles, walked outside their cute little Swiss houses, and landed in these formations, and that furthermore this deployment is not roughly tracing out the Swiss border, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 11:48AM

Ah, it appears he has retired and retreated to the rear.

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 11:50AM

Your assertion was pretty clear. 400,000 troops all mobilized to the border. That's simply not fact.

The average Zurich or Geneva citizen barely noticed the difference. And shipping prices most definitely went up.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:51AM

Oh, I thought you meant an undergraduate thesis. I do apologize and I certainly do not dispute that most of your other interests we know of also would be odd for someone who majored in hopelessly obscure foreign poets, to your credit!

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 12:00PM

Haha in a sense yes. I am wasting my employer's time while you seem to be wasting your own time. As the head of my desk just called me out for having a screen full of WW2 maps, I have to cede the war of attrition.

Your assertion was pretty clear too: "the primary Swiss concern with World War II was that it increased shipping costs".

Just out of curiosity, then, how many Swiss people would you say are represented by the 1939 formations to defend nothing more than shipping costs?

And really? The Swiss were better equipped than the Germans? I would love to see your source on this.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 12:03PM

I always thought the primary Swiss concern was that Hitler wanted to invade, subjugate, and incorporate all of the german speaking peoples into the Reich, and without cutting some sort of deal the country would have been completely surrounded by Axis powers making imports/exports impossible. Silly Swiss. It could have been a glorious, glorious Aryan utopia.

Posted by Anal_yst, Apr 24, 2008 12:04PM

EP, as you very well know, many (if not most) of us gave up our dreams of pursuing a field in which we're earnestly interested once we realized how paltry it paid. Life, aye, she is a bitch.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 12:05PM

"Ah, good show, DB readers!

Why are you all toiling in the bowels of finance?"

Well I gotta pay for my leather bound copies of Janes somehow!

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 12:10PM

"As the head of my desk just called me out for having a screen full of WW2 maps, I have to cede the war of attrition."

This pleases me. Because, in the end, isn't this what DealBreaker is for?

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 12:10PM

Oh, you may feel free to AIM me to continue the discussion at any time:

aim: equityprivate

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 12:30PM

I loved the discussion of Swiss mobilization in World War II. Intelligent discourse. I knew very little about Switzerland's role in the war; I just knew they stayed out of it and were never invaded by the Germans.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 12:40PM

I would like to, but I cannot use AIM or non MS exchange emails or even bloomberg chat from work!

However I would love if you could direct me to some reference sources to the martial superiority of the Swiss militia/army or whatever we can agree to call it over the Wermacht? Even the final report of the Independent Commission of Experts Switzerland (I freely admit I did not even know before today that this existed) seems to conclude that Germany could have advanced on Bern "with a single tank regiment."

It appears at least this was a real concern, not consistent with a state of affairs where armor and air power are useless, Swiss small arms are far superior, and either way the enemy is in danger of imminently freezing to death for lack of a winter cloak? We are, after all, talking about a time before Hitler poured out the strength of the mighty Wermacht in the frozen wastes of Russia. I am always happy to see some evidence that someone had a better army than Heinz Guderian. Just the way I feel (working for a German asset manager doesn't help).

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 12:54PM

Guderian's army was certainly the best for operations in wide open spaces or lowlands, but I fail to see how the Germans' undisputed superiority in armor would translate to fighting a citizen militia in the mountains.

Just look at the German experience against Tito in Serbia - an occupation of Switzerland would have been even more futile and bloody.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 1:28PM

I believe that any Swiss making watches or chocolate is "mobilized"

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 1:28PM

Hording Nazi gold is "mobilized"

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 1:30PM

Cuckoo clocks

Chocolate

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 1:32PM

I think it can be agreed by all that a Nazi occupation of CH would have been difficult and probably fruitless, that is a very different thing than saying the Nazis would be unable to occupy it to begin with (see US, Iraq for eg.).

An occupation of Switzerland with no viable railways would be of only nominal military value, even less so if you could get the swiss to let you cruise through with your supplies (and, it has been alleged, concentration camp prisoners) anyway, so it was wise that the Reich intended to just take care of the Swiss porcupine at a later time.

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 1:43PM

"Cuckoo clocks

Chocolate"

"Cuckoo" clocks were invented in Germany.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 1:46PM

Chocolate was invented by Native Americans (they called it "maize")

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 2:02PM

WW2? Too sson!

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 2:02PM

WW2? Too soon!

Posted by Random Banker, Apr 24, 2008 2:15PM

Uh, the notion that the Swiss could have defended switzerland from the Germans is completely ludicrous and transparently swiss propaganda designed to bolster the the morale of their people. While on paper the arguments hold some for the mental masturbatory purposes of those here, the reality was far more harsh. The same people that say the Germans would not have been able to penetrate Swiss mountain passes are those who deemed the maginot line impregnable. In the face of overwhelming superiority in man power and material there was little to no hope for the Swiss. If France had decided they wanted to invade Switzerland its unlikely the swiss could have stopped them let alone, stop Germany.

While EP argues that guerrilla warfare would have prevented a German occupation, such tactics are far less effective against a civilization willing to inflict genocide on its opponents. In total war where the population is already being killed, hiding among said populace is no longer nearly as successful a defensive strategy.

Now here's a really interesting question EP. I've always had the thought had Germany and the Japanese coordinated even a Japanese faint at Siberia during Barbarossa then Germans could have knocked the Russians out. While Hitler's refusal to equip his soldier's with proper winter gear didn't help the German cause it was really the arrival of the Siberian troops outside of Moscow that doomed the Germans in the winter of 41-42. All that was needed to hold the those troops in the east was a credible japanese threat. Knock out the russians and then Overlord gets rolled back into the channel and the Germans hold the continent.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 2:23PM

I once penetrated a Swiss Miss' mountain top with my heat and moisture seeking missile......then proceeded to send my torpedo into her joyful lovenest.....

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 2:30PM

"...it was really the arrival of the Siberian troops outside of Moscow that doomed the Germans in the winter of 41-42. All that was needed to hold the those troops in the east was a credible japanese threat. Knock out the russians and then Overlord gets rolled back into the channel and the Germans hold the continent."

The German defeat in Asia was, in my view, not at all a certainty. There were many MANY desperate times for the Russians, who had been badly surprised, out-thought, out-fought and out-moraled (is that a word) in the early stages.

I'd have to go look at my collection of campaign maps to really give you a view, but I think anything that kept even 15 divisions of Siberians off the line would have been the end of Moscow and, eventually, Russia.

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 2:32PM

"While EP argues that guerrilla warfare would have prevented a German occupation, such tactics are far less effective against a civilization willing to inflict genocide on its opponents. In total war where the population is already being killed, hiding among said populace is no longer nearly as successful a defensive strategy."

I think you mistake the Swiss sense of guerrilla war- which did not include low-intensity conflict using civilians for cover. I also think you overestimate the Nazi will to exterminate the more Germanic populations of Switzerland.

Posted by Anal_yst, Apr 24, 2008 2:35PM

Clearly the best strategy for the Swiss would have been to march Heidi and her friends to the front lines, pigtails and all...arguably the most disarming weapon man has ever encountered.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 2:59PM

""Cuckoo" clocks were invented in Germany."

Germany also produced all the swiss army knives for years until the swiss themselves were finally capable of mass production.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 3:01PM

@RB Who says the Swiss could have defended Switzerland? The whole strategy was based on immediately retreating to the mountains then pelting German groundcars with tasty chocolates as they tried to navigate the alpine passages.

Posted by Random Banker, Apr 24, 2008 3:06PM

"I think you mistake the Swiss sense of guerrilla war- which did not include low-intensity conflict using civilians for cover. I also think you overestimate the Nazi will to exterminate the more Germanic populations of Switzerland."


You need only look the German occupation of Belgium in world war first to see how they responded to a civilian population that resisted their advance. I don't know what the Belgians are ethnically (and i don't think they know either) but the Germans didn't bother asking before shooting them.


Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 3:08PM

"The same people that say the Germans would not have been able to penetrate Swiss mountain passes"

Or, I dunno, the Ardennes maybe? The Ardennes was supposed to be impenetrable.

You are clearly speaking of the French.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 3:21PM

I must say that I, myself, would have welcomed the assignment to invade Switzerland.

The thought of being pelted with tasty chocolates by busty, flaxen-haired Heidis cooing sweet nothings in Schwyzerdeutsche as we motored leisurely to Bern really stiffens my martial resolve. If you get my drift.

Say, EP, you don't speak Schwyzerdeutsche by any chance, do you? If so, I have some really nice raclette over at my place we could share.

Call me.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
E.J.E. Rommel

Posted by ep, Apr 24, 2008 3:52PM

Rommel: I need a man who can use both hands.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 4:59PM

Sorry, Fraulein, but that last remark just zoomed over my head like a Spitfire over a Horch staff car.

You are not interested in learning firsthand about my daring armored thrusts, maybe? I'll bring the Savoie wine.

Kisses,
E.J.E.R.

Posted by Novice, Apr 24, 2008 6:40PM

Anal_yst, for the cause of why we "gave up our dreams of pursuing a field in which we're earnestly interested," my explanation was that we were born seventy years too late and in the wrong country.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 7:23PM

So no conspirationist DB reader thinks the Jekyll Island gold is the obvious reason for PEACE between CH and DE during WWII?

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 7:40PM

I hate to compete with all of this earnest scholarship, but chocolate was never called "maize." That's the original term for corn, an entirely different taste than chocolate.

The word "chocolate" is derived from the Nahuatl word "xocolatl." The term "xocolatl" was used by Cortes when he wrote to the Spanish king describing his discoveries in the Aztec empire. Nahuatl was the language of the Aztecs in Mexico and versions of it are still spoken today in central Mexico.


Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 7:50PM

In French, corn is "maïs" (pronounce "maize").

Also, "xocolatl" sounded much like "shocolate", I think.

Conclusion : the words did not change a bit in 500 years...

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 9:51PM

I think the British use "maize" for corn as well.

Posted by guest, Apr 24, 2008 11:24PM

@9:49AM: WOW! Delaware has a gay guy? I had no idea!

The Other Guy From Delaware

Posted by guest, Apr 29, 2008 9:32AM

I had this dream, where Adolf Hitler and I were sitting in a Viennese Cafe in Zurich. He told me his name was "Engelbert Dolfuss." I knew he was lying, but I went with it. As our elaborately whip-creamed coffee-drinks arrived, he told me how much he hated his girlfriend, and that he would like to show me how a real Austrian "invades from the rear."

He was mesmerizing and had an odd sincerity in his eyes.

Though I longed to share his hatred and feel his wehrmacht in my Aryan utopia, I bid him "adieu," and sped away in my ragtop Renault 5 in search of a charming bistro.

Is that gay?

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