I feel like there are precious few things you guys like debating more than "what neighborhood contains the highest concentration of douchebags." Carney tells me this isn't the proper venue for discussing auto-erotic asphyxiation or Chipwich vs. Choco Taco: Which Is Superior?, so we'll go with the other one: bonuses. The following spreadsheet (for IBD) has apparently been floating around. The numbers are all over the place and seem highly unrealistic but who knows. My apathy over whether or not these projections have any basis in reality whatsoever probably has to do with the fact that my annual take home doesn't even beat a Wachovia first-year's but the upside is that I'm done for the day! Have a good weekend, bitches!
Comments
2
Posted by Random Banker, May 23, 2008 2:56PM
Are you sure those aren't the '07 numbers?
P.S. Chipwich
5
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 3:05PM
A staffer at Cowen said that we were going to be flat to $5k down from last year, which puts us near the $100/115/135 from last yr.
6
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 3:16PM
Those look fairly accurate.
Associate/VP pay was flat to down 10% at the beginning of the year. Highest performers were paid equal to what they received last year.
GS looks slightly high, Wachovia appears low, and I question the Merrill and Lehman numbers given their current financial shape.
7
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 3:17PM
I would gladly lose money for any of these banks for half the bonus. The amazing thing is that these bankers work 80+ hours per week at it. I could easily lose billions for any of these firms without spending a full day at the office.
8
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 3:35PM
@2:51: You were clearly fired and given a lousy severance. for the winners still left, they'll have to pay that to keep us. when MD's go from 3 to 2, youre not saving a lot of money taking analysts from 130 to 65. hope the morning shows are enjoyable.
9
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 3:37PM
It seems to me that these numbers are for IBD, not sales & trading. S&T numbers usually a good deal lower. At any rate these look too high to me.
10
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 3:37PM
@3.35--you're a funny clown! But you dont get it - nobody cares about junior people cause you dont make money. So, if i fire you, I can easily replace you as there are at least 5,000 resumes on file with HR. And those dopes will work for 65% of what I pay you. win/win for me BUT lose/lose for you
Now, go get my dry cleaning. chop, chop.
11
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 3:41PM
@3:37. I've already talked to my boss. Im a second year and it's 115 for me this year. Dont know what else to say...
12
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 3:58PM
2nd year what?
I'm pretty sure this is all wildly inaccurate, but it's hard to even begin to guess given that it just says "analyst". "First year analyst"--wtf does that mean? A lead analyst with 10 years of industry experience and 3 years as an associate? An associate just out of grad school?
If you can't keep your banking titles and research titles straight, what the f*** makes you think you can compare across company structures based on rumors and what people there claim?
13
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 4:01PM
For half of those you can replace "$" with "rapidly declining stock that doesn't vest for 3 years".
14
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 4:24PM
Wachovia staffer said flat to slightly down. I would add $15K-20K to each year.
GS and ML seem too high.
15
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 4:47PM
@3:58. Don't get your panties in a bunch. This list clearly refers to analysts (i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd year out of undergrad) rather than research analysts. Why? Because everyone knows that these analysts are paid mid-year rather than year end because of the summer training / b-school admissions cycle.
16
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 5:14PM
Hmm, not many baby bankers make it to year #3. I would put BofA in 06/07 at the top of these figures and maybe even higher.
As for 2:15, the rainmakers??? Most MD's in banking probably don't know how to use Excel..
The life of a baby banker sucks!
No, not a banker... I am a bigger douche!
17
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 5:30PM
I heard RBC's staffer say (on average):
45K - 1st Year
55K - 2nd Year
75K - 3rd Year
Those guys are moving up in the League tables but down in the pay.. silly Canadians
18
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 5:35PM
Is that C$ or US$? Loonies and toonies aren't looking so bad these days.
19
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 5:36PM
I find it hard to believe any of these numbers - at my bank they can't afford to give us free drinks anymore, we're in such bad shape. I thought back in '01 bonuses dropped to 0-20K for first years...and things are much worse for the banks this year since they are the ones getting hit. I would be happy with half the number given for my bank based on what I've been expecting.
BTW, wasn't dealbreaker too high last year, and are these numbers for top or middlebucket analysts?
And any word on S&T - are they the same as IBD or lower?
20
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 8:45PM
confirmed from a friend that barclays IBD (pays half your bonus after 6 months) got 35K
21
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 10:05PM
Does even one of you clods actually deserve any kind of bonus at all?
I can't imagine how any analyst could possibly justify getting one.
Every day I read how far apart your expectations are vs reality.
No wonder JPM has me working overtime to clean a lot of you knuckleheads out.
The Hatchet Man
22
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 11:11PM
Do any of you bankers and traders know how good a girl sucking your cock feels? How many times a year do you guys get to have sex? Close to never?
You guys are insecure losers with a little money in the bank account. Life is short - go fuck yourselves. hahaha.
23
Posted by guest, May 24, 2008 7:01AM
@11.11--You're a know-nothing. Of course the men here know how it feels - they pay for it every chance they get!
hahahaha
25
Posted by guest, May 24, 2008 6:05PM
I've heard Bank of America is slightly lower than last year at 100-120-140. Supposedly these numbers aren't final as they are trying to swell the pool to pay flat from last year. Can anyone else confirm this?
28
Posted by guest, May 25, 2008 5:11PM
These numbers are a little too optimistic. I'd say it would be around 75% of last year. It really doesn't save anything cutting bonuses to half at the analyst level anyway.
29
Posted by guest, May 26, 2008 7:13AM
I can give you the (unofficial) direction at UBS to be used for staff expectation management. I imagine it will not be too different at other banks as well:
- On the whole, EDs can expect reasonable numbers slightly lower than previous years, although some groups will be down significantly
- For Ds, it will be heavily dependent on department and the individual
- For ADs and non-officers, again it will be heavily dependent on region, department and individual, but overall numbers will be down to near zero and "market rates / industry performance" rationale to be used in the comp one-on-one early next year. Staff will be primed to expect this.
- For anyone above ED, I have no idea.
Slightly related, and buried deep in this thread so not too many people will see it :-) is a bit more info:
A series of more public expectation-management communications are planned to encourage natural attrition throughout the year, and to mitigate possible end-of-year layoff issues.
To borrow a term from Goldman Sachs, department heads are to look for opportunities to quietly "manage out" full-time employees wherever possible, and bonus numbers will reflect, to some extent, success in this area. Headcount can be recovered through the use of approved agencies and 6 - 12 month contracts as these do not appear in the public headcount figures (the ones that matter).
30
Posted by guest, May 26, 2008 10:34AM
@7:13M, Finally, some meaningful info (who cares what IB HR is doing to stroke the egos orrecent Ivy League grads who will be out the business in 2 years??)!
31
Posted by guest, May 26, 2008 8:11PM
Excellent UBS intel. Wish there where more useful comments like that one.
Quick question: "Down to near zero"...what does that mean? Is that an actual "no bonus" or a number meaning down from last year a percentage to flat? Sorry for wanting to be so specific. Lot's at stake and you seem to know what the hell you're talking about.
32
Posted by guest, May 27, 2008 7:58AM
@8.11- Hey douche, if you're making decisions on what some anon poster claims to know about UBS and have lots at stake, you're either an idiot, seriously retarded or a guy from delaware.
33
Posted by GinNTonic, May 27, 2008 10:20AM
GS seems way too high.
I would give everything about a 20% cut.
34
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 6:35AM
Ha Ha
Mid level sales here got a multiple of 4 times the largest figure on that sheet...
Go smoke one you yankee plonkers
35
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 7:36AM
@6.35-- yeah right......like we'd believe some brit who thinks drinking warm beer is a joy. and, four time zero is well........still zero!!!
36
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 8:19AM
@7:58AM - "... you're either an idiot, seriously retarded or a guy from delaware."
As someone not from Delaware, (although certainly an idiot given that I am still at UBS) I can say the UBS comment sounded close to the mark for non-business departments.
The lower-level support staff, IT, and so on, are usually rather insecure so a token number (which would be what was meant by "near-zero") in a bad year is easy to deliver.
Directors and Executive Directors can be a tougher bunch, but comp-levels amongst that group are only tenuously tied to business-performance which explains the relatively unchanged numbers despite UBS flushing itself down the toilet.
Excuse me, I have some UBS options to flush.
37
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 8:56AM
@8.19--good luck to you! now that ubs is providing lawyers to bankers and ex-bankers and advising them NOT to travel to the US, I cant imagine the amount of scrutiny you'll face from irs, sec and clients.
38
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 10:00AM
@8:56AM "...now that ubs is providing lawyers to bankers and ex-bankers and advising them NOT to travel to the US"
Yeah, I just saw that news a few minutes ago. Good advice. Once the DOJ gets a whiff of a skidmark or two in some big name panties, there's no stopping them.
39
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 10:19AM
smirk all you want, but I've never heard a legit firm, esp a bank, tell employees not to travel to the usa and give them legal counsel. They may tell you not to go to some 3rd world place, but the us?
40
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 2:55PM
Is it true that some are so strapped they may pay in shares?
41
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 4:04PM
These numbers seem a little ridiculous to me from a simply logical perspective. I don't have any experience with this because I wont be staring as a 1st year analyst until late this summer, but I know that if I were told that I would be getting no bonus at all this year I would just live with it and so would just about anyone in my graduating class. Everyone who has a job considers themself lucky and no one wants to be out in the job market now. I don't see why any bank would pay analysts a bonus of >60k when they could pay them much less. Simple supply and demand.
42
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 7:49PM
4:04, you are way wiser than your peer group and will do very well.
The common idiotic refrain is "Analyst pay does not matter." Well guess what, the MD would rather fly around first class the 10-15 times a year than pay out 30 grand extra to some analyst who is worth less than toilet paper.
Good luck to whoever dreamed up the above figures. They could very well be possible, if they fire 90% of the analyst class first.
43
Posted by guest, May 28, 2008 11:41PM
UBS guy from Delaware...Very helpful.
I wish some of the other folks would grow up and focus on money and the rumors related thereto.
As you've proven and I've learned, most intel/rumors on Wall Street have some sort of validity to them.
For those who don't understand that concept, please keep your thoughts to yourself and just read how others use the most value commodity known to man for our advantage.
For many folks, this is serious $. For others who are still jealous that they never made it, continue watching.
BTW...I'm not an analyst but I think they deserve everything $ they get. And, like a good capitalist, should expect more. There's nothing wrong with these kids making $120-$150 when they devote 365 days to the sole purpose of keeping their bosses satisfied.
This means, answering blackberry at 9:00pm at the bar, rescheduling vacations, canceling dinner dates, working every weekend for at least 10 hours, considering leaving the office at 11:00pm as a good day at work.
Any other profession with those requirements please let me know.
44
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 6:26AM
guest@11:41pm. I'm with you about the analysts.
Btw, the UBS guy said he was NOT from Delaware.
45
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 7:01AM
@11.44--those analyst idiots deserve little to nothing. They are easily replacable, provide little to no customer biz and are a blood sucking group of leeches who lead despicable personal lives. I think they are all easily replaced by pc, programmed to work 24 hours a day. Just dont replace the chicks with bra sizes above 34C.
46
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 9:04AM
@ 7:01AM and others: It's amazing how you can blindly attack what you obviously don't know.
1) Please explain how all investment banking analysts are idiots? Aside from completely sacrificing our personal lives for a few years to better our careers, how are we idiots? At the beginning of my 2nd year as an analyst (24 years old) I, and only I, discussed with the CFO and treasurer of a $2bn company their valuation for 30 minutes. Tell me what other job gives such responsibility at a young age.
2) How are we blood sucking? The arguments that analysts are worthless is the stupidest argument on here. Everyone in a bank knows that the most effective team is a strong MD and a strong analyst - the people in between are the ones who are negligible.
Do we make a lot of money? Yes. Have I worked 45 hours straight on 4 hours of sleep from a previous 24 hour excel marathon? Yes. Have I had to miss countless dinners and events with friends and family? Yes.
Most analysts are just normal people with a strong drive to learn and do the best they can - you clearly know absolutely nothing about banking and add negative value to the comments. Every job has its douches, banking has them and so does wherever you work, which from a quick judgment of your comments, is you.
And for what it's worth, the numbers above are probably fairly close to accurate, although probably a bit high in some cases. I would guess 1st years @ ~$80k and 2nd @ $100k (for bulge bracket investment banking analyst positions) This is down ~10-12% from last year.
-someone who actually knows what they're talking about
48
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 9:23AM
@9.04-- OK, douchebage who is so busy with important things that you have time to read gossip sites.
1. You are an idiot for sacrificing your life and then complaining about it. You are inconsistent doing both. If you dont like it, quit.
2. You are a bloodsucker, everyone knows it. You are willing to label others as "negligible" proves my point. I hope you get fired soon.
3. If some idiot CFO gave you 30 minutes, hes obviously an idiot too. They're probably bankrupt or close to it, if they listen to clowns like you.
4.Do you really think you add value in the food chain? No one does, thats why jokers like you are the first to get kicked out.
5. I'm sure I'll meet you. Please get my order correct, I hate it when waiters cant remember my order. No tip for you.
Now, go back to your basement apartment in NJ and continue thinking about your choices - joining the military or waiting tables.
@9.09 - Drinking OJ? You're a slacker too.
49
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 9:37AM
@9:23 your rebuttal is so stupid it doesn't even warrant a full response.
short version - everything I said was based in fact, everything you said proves my original point that you don't know anything.
50
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 9:40AM
@9.37--practice saying, "You want fries?"..because thats the only money maker for you. trust me, if you're still employed in 30 days, its a miracle.
and....your reply, just proves my point. Now, go get me coffee, I'm tired from banging the summer intern last night.
51
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 9:43AM
I can smell the bitterness wafting off that last (9 23am) post like the stench off a carcass. you must be in a support function.
52
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 9:47AM
@9.43--not at all. I simply know how MDs and up feel about the little people who think they're so important, and try to dress like grown-ups.
Now, go fetch some dunkin donuts for us, the bear-ites are coming in soon to give us the keys to their homes.
53
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 10:04AM
Why so bitter, do we not all have to begin someplace. Yes, most of us offering a rebuttal to your ignorant ways are most likely analyst. Last time I check the analyst role at an investment bank was one of the most sought after and one of the most difficult jobs one can get out of college. I remember listening to Ken Moelis say "an analyst at an investment bank is like a Doctor doing their residency" Both work hard, and sacrifice a personal life for the search of knowledge so we too can one day be "the MD" in your story. To me, you sound like ignorant guy who not matter how hard he tried (and I bet you tried so hard) could not get a job as an analyst. Its ok, like I said its kind of a hard job to get. Have a good day.
54
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 10:14AM
there is no doubt in my mind that 9:23 gently slides a razor down his wrists every night only to realize he doesnt have the guts.
Middle office without a doubt.
-chad
55
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 10:27AM
@10.04--to correlate being a doctor with being an analyst only shows the extent of your delusions. please get some help soon
@10.14--if thats funny where you live/work, its truly sad. please get some help or at least a hug from your Mom.
56
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 10:53AM
Out of sheer curiosity, how many rejection letters did you get when applying to be an analyst. A ballpark figure will do…5?, 10?, 15!?
57
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 12:39PM
au contraire my good fellow........when you go to a good school, you get offers.
Now, how about you? Oh right, nobody was interested in your porn collection you built in Mom's basement. sorry, dude, but knowing about RICK isnt really a big deal.
58
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 1:08PM
Despite widespread unemployment, analysts still have to be paid competitively. It's one thing to lay people off -- they're gone! It's another thing to pay existing employees subpar, and then expect another year of work performed cheerfully and well at all hours of day and the week. Second year analysts who are furious and feel cheated about their bonuses will infect the attitude of the incoming first year analysts, and the summer interns.
Why, it almost makes one want to fix analyst bonuses industry-wide! And to erase memories of what has been paid in years past!
59
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 1:52PM
@9:04AM an equity research junior analyst, clearly the bottom of the finance food chain before you get to the back office, probably spends way more time than you talking to CFOs and CEOs. you make some fair points, but don't get too carried away with your self-importance.
60
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 2:52PM
Dont diminish the role of analysts - they play crucial roles on all deal teams and bear the brunt of the workload, particularly the work no one else wants to do. MD's for the most part actually do understand that analysts work their hearts out. However, because it is something that is expected, most analysts don't get recognized by the MD's as doing anything special.
That said, analysts are the lowest on the chain and are the most easily replaceable people in an investment banking operation. At this point, given the economy and how many people have been laid off (esp. with the bear layoffs), the competition in the IB job market is INTENSE and regardless of the bonus number, no one will be quitting their jobs willingly anytime soon.. and don't think HR doesn't know this. Given current conditions, the above figures seem absolutely ludicrous. I know a couple analysts who have already found out their numbers at bulge bracket banks and bonuses for 2nd years have ranged from $30k-$50k, which means we're back to the bonus ranges of 2001/2002.
If we are indeed back to those times, first years should expect ~$15k-$20k and third years should expect $60-$80k. As always, there will be outliers since the bonus spectrum this year is supposed to be huge, but Im guessing that the average will fall somewhere in those ranges.
61
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 3:32PM
I told one analyst yesterday that he was lucky to have a job when he asked about his bonus. I dont need to pay up for help this year as the bonus pool is truly aimed at money makers only. I get at least 100 resumes a week now.
Do you really think I care what some 2nd or 3rd year jerk thinks? They are now in the same food chain as drivers, and grocery clerks. If they get uppity, there are a lot of replacements available at lower prices. And I'm pointing that out now too.
63
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 5:26PM
3:32 is full of sh*t ppl. Anyone who know anything about this business can see right through this guy. He either a) doesn't work in the industry b) is back office or c) worked in ML structured products
64
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 6:42PM
@5.18--its about making money, if some ivy league mba needs his hand held, he's gone in 4 weeks here
@5.26-- lets wait and see about bonus'. If junior, meaning those with less than 5 years, think its 2005-2006, they are very mistaken.
And, no, I dont work for any of those places you named. I probably have your resume here too. You dont get it, 10-15 year veterans are willing to take substantial paycuts to stay in the game. You think some money grubber like you stands a chance of having any candy thrown at them?
65
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 7:52PM
Everyone seems to be an expert. I doubt anyone on this board really knows what will happen.
That said, investment banking revenues are only down slightly, and despite what many think, the reasons banks spend significant amounts of time and money on analyst recruiting, training, etc. is because analysts do add value at some point.
I think these numbers are high, but hopefully bonuses will fall somewhere around 75% of those shown here.
Also, as an analyst who works directly with an MD, I've finally learned that what analysts make is really nothing compared to what senior people (and banks) bring in. Cutting bonuses significantly will not save the bank in teh short-term, and could be very detrimental in the long run.
I would argue that it's risky for a bank to significantly cut bonuses (i.e. to the 10k level for 1st yrs), as it will seriously hurt recruiting efforts in the future (i.e. when the economy has recovered). You can say they don't care about recruiting, but check with HR to see how much money is spent on it, and ask yourself if they really do not care (at least a little bit).
66
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 8:04PM
Of course analysts deserve their pay, my balls aren't going to suck themselves.
68
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 8:24PM
This back and forth is not only ridiculous but also off point. Lets suffice it to say that throughout the history of IB there are people who feel analysts deserve what they make and there are those that disagree. This is not the time nor the place to seek compromise on that topic. Just like everyone else on the Street who worked their ass of making real money and then got screwed in Feb, the analysts run the same risk. It is mitigated a bit more than people outside the programs based on what post 7:52 explained very well.
Now lets cut the shit out and discuss what actual information we have. The rumor is that bonuses are flat to down 10% from last year. There is also rumors that they are looking at increasing the size of the "bottom bucket" to encourage the weaker performers to piss off. If they are flat to last year these numbers are just a touch high (~ 5%).
Anyone else know anything useful besides listing all the potential errands or you can think of?
69
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 8:50PM
@ 8:05: You're correct, I don't work "with" the MD, I work "for" him. My situation is unique, as I work for a PE group within a BB, but as 8:24 points out this is irrelevant.
The bonus could be a lot of money to me (and I suspect most people who are commenting), so it'd be nice to get an idea about what it may be.
Not sure if this is true, but I've heard Wachovia analysts get half the bonus mid-year (Dec.) and the other half in July. I heard that their first half was 35k (i.e. 70k for full first year bonus). Anyone also hear this? Also, are bonuses at BBs paid out in the first 2 wks of July?
70
Posted by guest, May 29, 2008 8:51PM
@ 8:05: You're correct, I don't work "with" the MD, I work "for" him. My situation is unique, as I work for a small PE group within a BB, but as 8:24 points out this is irrelevant.
The bonus could be a lot of money to me (and I suspect most people who are commenting), so it'd be nice to get an idea about what it may be.
Not sure if this is true, but I've heard Wachovia analysts get half the bonus mid-year (Dec.) and the other half in July. I heard that their first half was 35k (i.e. 70k for full first year bonus). Anyone also hear this? Also, are bonuses at BBs paid out in the first 2 wks of July?
71
Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 4:28AM
Who are these sorry fks underappreciating the value of ibd analysts? Any smart banker knows that by an analyst's 2nd year, a competent one can outperform majority of YR-0 and YR-1 associates with Harvard MBAs... (My group just got a Harvard MBA summer associate - I, an analyst, had him update company profiles and spread dealcomps this week - little does he know that I anticipated the shittiness of his work quality so I had India do them for me earlier in the week). And by 3rd year, one should never work with associates and rarely be working with Jr. VPs. If you are a Sr. VP and you are commenting on dealbreaker, I am sorry for you.
To come to the conclusion that analysts add no value is as asinine as the spreadsheet containing those numbers above. Then to say that all analysts are replaceable just because there are 1000 resumes sitting on your desk clearly tells me that you have not been working in banking for more than a year or that you are delusional & completely retarded, and will be fired soon... I'm sure those 1000 resumes can't replace in one month 1000+ hours of due diligence a competent analyst has already completed for 2 live deals within the past 3 months while understanding the subtle nuances of how to quickly and successfully work and please his/her senior peeps on various short-term assignments. (No, I don't work with associates or vps on transactions b/c to me and my director they would only be de-sissting in our efforts to get the deal done on time; and yes, I work for a true bb firm, and by that i don't mean jpm or shittigroup)...
I'm pretty certain no one in bb ibd has found out their numbers yet (with exception to get da fk out bonus / bottom bucket / bottom 50% - what jpm paid 50% of its 1st yr analyst class for severance - approx. 25K and 2 months salary or something like that. don't quote me on this). Also, I heard from various hhunters that good ny 1st yr associate offers in pe at a reputable shop is around 200K-225K this year vs. 250K last year (pe shops try to pay just a bit more than what they expect bb banks to pay its top bucket third years). Now taking all of this into consideration, including the trend of increasing variance from top to bottom bucket for each class every year, I'm guesstimating that realistically, '08 1st year analyst bonus will be around 35-65K (low - top bucket); 2nd years: 55-85K; 3rd years: 75 - 105K +/- 10K and with more middle bucket than years prior (a true normal distribution function vs. the one skewed to the right).
Now, to those mid-level losers (associates/vps) who think that 1st yr analysts shouldn't get paid more than 10/20K - let's just think what will happen to your bonuses if your wish actually came true. If 1st year bonuses go from 95K in 2007 to 10/20K in 2008), then I'm sure by early '09, you will not be "cash rich" enough to pay off that remaining b-school loan and your wife's last valentine's day / Christmas / B day present, especially if you spend 1K of cash a wk at Flashdancers and another 500 at massage parlors b/c your wife of 8 months don't want to fk your seamless fat and tired ass anymore. Oh yeah, btw. make sure to incorporate a function in your personal financial model for a 70% cash 30% equity scenario that pretty much vests only if you get fking fired. But if you do get fired, who are you going to ask for hhunter referrals? Obviously, you and your mid-level Harvard MBA connections weren't good enough for the buyside first time around. Let's call a spade a spade, sir... you really don't mean what you said. Or even if you did, you don't necessarily want it to be true, because if it does come true then you'd better pack your bags and call a damn good divorce lawyer (maybe your friend from Harvard Law); the last time I checked, associates and vps get canned before the banks even touch analysts. So if banks are laying off 50% of its ibd analyst class then I'm sure there's a great chance that your bonus will be my 2 cents, a pink slip, and a nice damp towel (for you to hold for me while I cum on your newly divorced wife's face after I get off of work at 7 pm on a weeknight from my new buyside gig)... Better yet, I won't even use your services; I'll just give her a nice pearl necklace every friday night, the real valentines day present she was seeking if you were actually paying attention to her instead of marking up stupid pie charts to be a bit smaller in that one pager; that profile a smart analyst told you was going to end up at appendix section F of a 100-page pitch book for some corp. development guy, you stupid dipshit. Get a life. O wait... you can't b/c come next year, you will still be on your knees night and day re-working the numbers on a retarded pitch book with an incompetent/disgruntled laterally hired analyst for MY senior people to ultimately use as a drink coaster during the meeting, and nothing more. Peace be with you slave.
72
Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 6:02AM
Two tidbits you douchebags should know-
1. All banks/IBs/ etc are having their acountants walk around asking mgmt to report all expenses and losses that we anticipate so there are no surprises next year.
2. HR is walking around asking what folks we really need or want. Also, saying those that are "difficult to manage" need to be culled or those who dont directly contribute.
So, if you think your job is so safe, think again.
Now, consider going back to iowa before the train fills up.
73
Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 7:48AM
@ 6:02AM - is this supposed to be news? I think it's plainly obvious to everyone at working an any IB (BB included) that they're tightening things up.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 10:44AM
I don't think any of you deserve a bonus. If you are fortunate enough to maintain your situation, that in itself should be your bonus.
Q.E.D.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 12:02PM
@4:28 - at least there's one reliable source who knows what he's talking about. well done. i'd say those numbers are pretty much right.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 12:22PM
@ 4:28AM
hahahaa. i concur... associates and vps are definitely worthless cocksuckers taking credit for analysts' work. that's why our bank got rid of 20% of 'em within the past 6 months. my first year associate doesn't even know how to build an LBO. he started hardcoding the interest expense line item with some numbers he got off of a research report and was asking me why the model doesn't work. then he started yelling at a first year analyst for no reason and made her cry. i looked at him last night, just shook my head and left the office. he'll definitely get laid off.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 1:01PM
4:28 - ur dead on and ur numbers sound reasonable to me. "peace be with you slave." ahahaahahahaaha! good thing there's exit opportunities for good analysts even in this crappy market that pays better than the current one!
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 1:04PM
I hear the Farmers co-op in Iowa needs check-out clerks for those of you headed home forever.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 1:24PM
It's almost 1:30pm and I'm a 2nd year analyst at a bb. A 1st yr associate tried to give me some work half an hour ago... I told him that I need to go to the gym, come back and get on the polycom to have a teleconference to discuss my st. tropez trip in july with other bb 2nd years then go on a date to bang some b&t chick so I'm pretty much done for the day. Good times bitches!
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 1:30PM
i think i saw my vp coming out of johnston murphy the other day. man, it's getting ugly out there for those guys...
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 1:33PM
@4:28am - it's kind of funny to hear you describe the almighty analyst as something that everyone should aspire to be forever and perpetually bow-down to... for all i care, you can stay an analyst the rest of your career and not be one of "those" HBS MBA's getting paid and giving you projects to work on while we're out of the office.
because you're so great at your job, why don't you stay all night today, tomorrow and the rest of your 1-3yr analyst career.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 1:34PM
@4:28am - it's kind of funny to hear you describe the almighty analyst as something that everyone should aspire to be forever and perpetually bow-down to... for all i care, you can stay an analyst the rest of your career and not be one of "those" HBS MBA's getting paid and giving you projects to work on while we're out of the office.
because you're so great at your job, why don't you stay in the office all night today, tomorrow and the rest of your 1-3yr analyst career.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 1:44PM
@4:28am - it's kind of funny to hear you describe the almighty analyst as something that everyone should aspire to be forever and perpetually bow-down to... for all i care, you can stay an analyst the rest of your career and not be one of "those" HBS MBA's getting paid and giving you projects to work on while we're out of the office.
because you're so great at your job, why don't you stay in the office all night today, tomorrow and the rest of your 1-3yr analyst career.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 2:34PM
@ 1:44pm. i have a buyside gig paying 300K next year. heard my firm's up 40% ytd so the current 1st years expect to get paid more like 450K. i'm fine with 300K but 450K sound good to me! i mean, i am only 24 years old. my 3 years is up in 27 days and never will i have to do banking again. i must say though that the analyst stint was a great temp job for me. learned a lot the first 24 months, met some really smart senior people, quickly figured out that i'm much smarter than most mid-level people in the banks, and closed 7 $500+mm m&a deals during my 3 years at my firm (3 of which did not have an associate or a vp on the deal team). yes, i'm a BSD analyst, and yes i tell my associates that they are getting overpaid and i'm getting underpaid, and yes i received a direct promote offer, which I obviously declined.
you must have been working too hard or just plain stupid since you cannot grasp the message i was tring to convey in my prior blog. i highly suggest you take some vacation days before you get axed on your mid year review. i was pointing out how almighty analysts like myself would never become a dbag associate / vp at an investment bank, deep throating on a buysider's cock night and day. b/c i'm so great at my job, i will turn 25 this fall and will have 28-30 yo hbs fks on all 4s doing my work for me whether they are in the office or away, while i play brick breaker and day trade the shit out of your shittigroup stock. none of my superiors at my new gig went to b-school; they were all direct promotes. and they all made fun of bankers during my sell dinner. so continue to get paid in stock while I co-invest the little bonus i will earn this year in my new firm's fund and double my money in 2; and continue to fly coach in hopes of getting an upgrade to bus. class while i fly in my partners g350.
sorry, it's getting late - i'm in check out mode. i must leave the office now. peace be with you hbs - harvard business slave. i will be calling you shortly to see how you're doing with my request for hand spread comps for all of the companies in the s&p500 (just for the fun of it). make sure to really dig down in the footnotes, my little slave.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 2:35PM
Doesn’t make sense to lay off either analyst (Cheap factory) or Rainmakers (Revenue Gen). Without both, you got nothing. Mid level employees are the first to go because they don’t fit either category.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 2:55PM
@2:34 Holla! It's good to be the best of the best! If I'm on a deal and I get a banking associate on a deal team from Harvard business school, I'm definitely going to make him do a porter's five forces and swot analysis for me.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 6:35PM
@2:34pm,
My, my, aren't we impressed with ourselves. How much of what you said is truth, and how much is bullshit?
Truth = a little; Bullshit = a lot.
If you were the hi-powered dude you claim to be, you wouldn't be posting on db at all. But then again, you're 24 and immature. 24 is the only truthful part of your entire entry.
@2:34 = asswipe
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 6:41PM
@2:34pm,
BTW, WTF is a hi-powered dude like you doing up at 4:30 AM posting on db?
@2:34 = double asswipe
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 7:09PM
guest @ 5/30 4:28am and 2:34 pm. Glad to hear you're doing so well.
Go easy on that white powder that's keeping you up all night and manic all day.
Age 24: BSD.
Age 25: Lying on the morgue table.
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Posted by guest, May 30, 2008 7:19PM
I'm guessing that guest @ 5/30 6:35pm and 6:41pm is TGFD/TOGFD.* (1) Always tries to bring down someone he considers too high-faluting for posting at hours he considers inappropriate. (2) Favorite pejorative noun is "asswipe."
*Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Posted by guest, May 31, 2008 1:59AM
i just read 2:34pms prior comment at 4:28am. he seems to be one of the very few on the blog who actually knows what he's talking about. all of the anecdotal stuff makes perfect sense to me. man, i hate my job in banking. vp ruined my damn weekend because of a pitch book.
but there's no way 2:34 is not constantly doing snow in the bathroom at all times. i'd join him if i wasn't still at the office.
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Posted by guest, May 31, 2008 9:40AM
@ 2:34PM
After one digs through your backpatting and ego stroking, fundamentally what you're saying has truth, yet you still sound like the stereotype of a douchebag banker. This is coming from a 2nd year @ a BB that has had a similar banking experience to yours and is also going to a top buyside job (top 5 PE shop to anticipate your reply, although I half expect to hear "HF is where the superstar analysts go!!11!").
Stop feeding the stereotype. An appropriate answer when a girl asks what you do is not "BSD analyst that is going to make upwards of $300k next year" If that has worked, strong possibility you have the herp as NYC is overflowing with ppl making $300k+
To be preemptive: I must respectfully decline your forthcoming request for an "LBO-off" to see whose nuts are larger (cue rant on how easy LBOs are to build)
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Posted by guest, May 31, 2008 12:13PM
Who needs to do an LBO-off? Come on guys, we all know the answer is not LBOable given the market conditions. Top 5 pe suggests that you won't be doing many deals in the near future except selling off assets your pe shop purchased with 6x lev back in '06. top hedge fund gig suggest that your future has a huge downside. half of my friends in hedge funds got laid off and you know what their severances were? (note: they were guaranteed 300k+ like 2:34 last year)- $0 bonus and 4 weeks salary. Good Game.
times are uncertain for everyone. it's wise to keep a low profile when you think you're doing well. also fyi - i have plenty of friends not doing either pe / hf and making >$2mm at the age of 25. So stop bragging about money... especially in ny even if you make $5m next year, there's always gonna be plenty of tf babies driving their lambos around because they just got $30m in the bank when they hit 21. I'm sure those guys don't have to impress some models by buying bottles every weekend at tenjune.
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Posted by guest, May 31, 2008 12:46PM
@12:13 - completely agree, which I was trying to drive home in my post @ 9:40AM. Reason for mentioning where I was going was to preempt being called a "backoffice loser who is just bitter"
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Posted by guest, May 31, 2008 7:50PM
Gurst@7:19pm, 05/30...
"Asswipe" is the favorite of The Other Guy from Delaware. I haven't yet selected a favorite.
The Guy from Delaware
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Posted by guest, May 31, 2008 7:57PM
Anybody know what Chelsea Clinton might be making at her HF job?
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Posted by guest, Jun 02, 2008 12:47PM
I did 3 years in banking and had fun, despite the hours. My co-workers, for the most part, were agreeable. We had almost no Bschool associates/vps (most were direct promotes) so they knew their stuff and I learned a lot from them. They gave me enough guidance that I could learn in the beginning, and balanced that with enough indepedence that I wasn't being coddled (mostly worked w/ assoc during my 1st/2nd yr, never in my 3rd yr). I was given a direct promote offer as well but like many of you, vowed to leave banking, and am an associate now myself, working in a distressed private equity fund that has earned 300% IRR YTD (good times for people like us).
That said, I don't understand why people here speak so disparagingly and disrespectfully about their associates in IB. I worked at 2 BB during my 3-years (switched mid-2nd year) and although I absolutely hated some associates, there were just as many who were very knowledgeable and intelligent. When I graduated college and was a finance noob, they were great resources and I still have respect for and keep in touch with many of the associates (now vps) I used to work with. In fact, I sometimes go to them for advice when making career choices or seeking opinions regarding certain accounting/finance matters. Was everyone else's experiences in investment banking, especially with regard to associates, that bad?!?!??
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Posted by guest, Jun 02, 2008 1:33PM
Does anyone have any real info about bonuses this year for Associates in Research at BBs?
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Posted by guest, Jun 03, 2008 10:57AM
As a 2nd yr analyst at one of the banks listed in the spreadsheet, I can tell you that all those numbers are inflated... Expect 15% - 20% less.
GS' A1s got 110 last year and this isn’t the year where banks are looking to beat one another… but hey its Goldman and they’re pretty good YoY.
Also, I can tell you first hand that while we are expendable, there aren’t nearly as many people as most think willing to replace us. Sure, our HR Dept has 5000 resumes on file but how many are quality? We are paid handsomely for our dedication to our work and our superiors.
My group is extremely small (9) including both origination and portfolio. As the only analyst, I eat shit sandwiches for 85+ hours a week (equivalent to two “full-time” jobs). I don’t work “closely” with my MD, in fact, not even my VPs work closely with my MD. My MD brings in mandates, assigns Ds and VPs to the deal and moves on to find more mandates.
Most studies that I’ve seen from bullshit management courses in undergrad said people value appreciation and respect over pay. Well, not an analyst, we are in it for the dollar… and we deserve every cent we get.
The bottom line: we’re all dogs, those in banking are simply a better breed.
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Posted by guest, Jun 06, 2008 4:02PM
If you guys have a job by the end of 2008, open the bubbly. Forget about the numbers!
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Posted by guest, Jun 06, 2008 6:13PM
Totally agree, guys. Accept a $1.90 bonus and a donut and don't complain. Be thankful for a job this year.
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Posted by guest, Jun 06, 2008 6:14PM
I heard Merrill is about to lay off another 5,000. Resume padding time...
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Posted by guest, Jun 07, 2008 12:30AM
Yeah, I heard the rumor about Merrill too. Run for the hills!!!!
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Posted by guest, Jun 08, 2008 2:32PM
My buddy tells me the Merrill announcement will happen on Tuesday morning.
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Posted by guest, Jun 10, 2008 7:25AM
Many credible UBS rumours in the news of another multi-billion dollar Q2 loss and significant private wealth client defections.
Managers have been in meetings all day today and its reminiscent of the weeks leading up to the prior layoffs.
I have been to some of the business presentations meant to reassure staff that the worst is over and that the (remaining) business management team is now more streamlined and changing things for the better... but they haven't changed anything significant in their thinking and strategies. We seem to be left with the worst of the bunch.
They are rearranging the deck chairs while the UBS Titanic steams full ahead, powered by capital injections and the rights issue, toward a massive iceberg with sides as precipitous as the share price fall.
The smart ones have already bailed, and are paddling away to safety, while none of us remaining suckers even got to have sex with Kate Winslet.
Ah well, I should at least be thankful that I'm not from Delaware.
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Posted by guest, Jun 10, 2008 3:04PM
you take bonus advice from a guy with Erectile Dysfunction?
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Posted by guest, Jun 11, 2008 3:59PM
Any updates? People should be finding out soon - some may have some indication of what numbers are looking like.
Posted by guest, May 23, 2008 2:51PM
Cut those numbers in half, maybe more. Nobody cares if some douchbag analyst stays or not.
Gotta pay the rain makers first.