Self-styled shareholder superman Carl Icahn says Barack Obama would be a "terrible" president, Bloomberg reports. His election, backed by a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, would lead to runaway legislation, higher interest rates and accelerating inflation, Icahn told a conference of investors last night.
"I don't normally get involved in politics, but this time I am," Icahn said. "I don't think Obama really understands economics."
Does this mean Larry Kudlow was right?
Carl Icahn Says Obama Would Be a 'Terrible' President for U.S. [Bloomberg]
Posted by diablo , May 22, 2008 12:37PM
Did Icahn say anything good about McCain, or is he a Hillary man...? I forgot, he's a Rudy man. Yawn!
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 12:39PM
Well Icahn, doesn't understand the difference between a filibuster and a veto... or is that you Carney?
Meanwhile John McCain, who has never worked for anyone besides the government and his father-in-law, is what, an economics genius?
I really wouldn't mind a comment like this except that its coming from a two-bit greenmail artist like Icahn. I mean the guy is Ivan Boskey with a better attorney.
errrr that really burns my britches...
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 12:41PM
I'm a registered Dem, and no fan of Bush. But Barry is just plain unqualified & too naive to be president.
Anyone who can remember the idiocy of the Carter years will categorically reject Obama.
I've become the new "Reagan Democrat", and I don't think I'm going to be alone.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 12:41PM
I'm a registered Dem, and no fan of Bush. But Barry is just plain unqualified & too naive to be president.
Anyone who can remember the idiocy of the Carter years will categorically reject Obama.
I've become the new "Reagan Democrat", and I don't think I'm going to be alone.
Posted by diablo , May 22, 2008 12:44PM
I don't see MER in the list of Obama's top contributors, but here's the list:
Goldman Sachs $544,481
University of California $371,266
Ubs Ag $363,257
JPMorgan Chase & Co $353,808
Citigroup Inc $331,946
National Amusements Inc $313,511
Lehman Brothers $312,597
Google Inc $293,974
Harvard University $292,441
Sidley Austin LLP $287,795
Skadden, Arps et al $266,413
Morgan Stanley $253,576
It's a crazy list of Wall Street, commies and lawyers.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 12:47PM
Zip it up, it was Carter that appointed Volcker. And the Soviet Union would have collapsed on its own. What were Regan's accomplishments again? The ever so successful war on drugs? Supplying arms to both sides in the Iraq-Iran war?... well actually that was a pretty good idea. But besides that, the old coot was lucky to remember to put in his dentures in the morning.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 12:51PM
@12:41: Uh oh, someone recalibrated the Ron Paul comment generators. This is going to be a long election season.
Posted by Novice , May 22, 2008 12:56PM
RB, filibuster-proof majorities mean that Senate Republicans can't block two Dem-controlled branches.
Compared to McCain's alternative of cutting $15B of spending and $400B of taxes to claim that he'll move toward a balance budget, I'll pick the new guy. His plans are more coherent than McCain's and less pandering than Clinton's.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 12:58PM
RB: You got it, I'll "zip it up". But I won't pull the lever for a 1st term senator whose sum total of experience is "community organizing" ie fanning anti-employer sentiment.
McCain isn't great but he has a track record I can live with. Social moderate, fiscal conservative. Besides, he has foreign policy sense, unlike Mr "Meet with Dictators". Which brings us back to Jimmy Carter.
Obama will get the lefty wingnuts and lose the moderates, on his way to a 49-state loss.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 12:58PM
Yeah carney, typed "veto proof" earlier.
Posted by counterclockwise , May 22, 2008 12:59PM
These are difficult and dangerous times.
Neither candidate are schooled in economics.
McCain would be a tough world leader, but there was never a military effort that he didn't think should be fought to conclusion successful for the U.S., no matter what the cost. (He'll still argue that we could have won in Viet Nam.)
Obama is very light on foreign policy, but seems to have good will from friendly countries. The thought of an American president chatting with Amahdinejad and Hugo Chavez gives me the shivers. And then there are other man-eaters out there: Medvedev (backed by Putin) and our Arab "friends." Yes, Carter's performance as President is frequently on my mind.
I am honestly not sure of where my vote is going. I think when the campaigns start to get past the conventions, Obama will pick up more steam, and has a very powerful allure for the younger voters.
Turn-out will be everything.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:01PM
Ron Paul for president
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 1:09PM
John McCain's foreign policy is absolutely brain dead. You know he thinks we should have stayed in Vietnam right? That's the type of mentality you're dealing with, he has no concept of cost benefit analysis. Iran is a fucking joke, I'm sick of hearing about them, they are not a credible threat to anyone (well maybe isreal, but the isrealis can just nuke them) and our foreign policy has only served to strengthen the extremists and pro-nuclear elements that do exist there.
Lets not forget that we are the ones who overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran. Installing our own dictator. There by fomenting the Islamic revolution. And, we removed Iran's chief rival in the region. This mess is our own fault and McCain is making things worse, not better.
And Obama has a path to victory and its through virginia, lousiana, missouri and iowa, maybe even (40% black) mississippi.
Posted by Anal_yst , May 22, 2008 1:15PM
I'll take a McCain/Romney ticket over anything on the democrat side any day. McCain may be a freak war-monger with no comprehension of 2nd+ order efects of policy decisions, but the populist BS the Dems are swingin' is appalling, at best.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:17PM
Kulow, Icahn ... Random Banker, that's it!
I am convinced. I am voting Obama.
Probably the best chance I have to see my short position really pay off.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:18PM
RB: "but the isrealis can just nuke them." And you are calling McCain brain dead?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:18PM
McCain was in Vietnam at the time, so I think he knows the consequences of staying there. Besides, he has 2 sons in armed forces (Naval Academy and a front-line Marine in Iraq). He has a lot of incentive to get this one right.
Your tone is pretty insulting. The argumentative approach isn't doing you much good, considering I'm a Dem and nominally on your side. That's the problem with the Obamamaniacs: They're zealots and just try to shout down opposition. Ain't the way to win an election.
My approach to elections is to vote for the D or R with:
1. the most moderate positions,
2. with most credible experience, and
3. least likely to harm the economy. Right now, Obama has 3 strikes against him. Clinton and McCain are tied.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:21PM
@ 12:44
Remember, if you feed the alligator you're the last one to be eaten.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:25PM
12:59 - Younger voters don't actually vote. They say they will, but get distracted by Grand Theft Auto V on election day. Every election since I've been eligible to vote (1988) has been predictated on the youth vote coming on strong. It has never, ever happened.
Older citizens vote, though. They vote every single time. So the snarky lefty comments I constantly hear about McCain's age and dementia are probably counterproductive. And they remember Jimmah Carter very well.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:27PM
McCain is the only true 'bi-partisan uniter' if there is one in this election. Proof of it is the fact that the right wingnuts are not too enamoured of him either.
Uniting and being bipartisan means going against your base at times, something that McCain has done with immigration, judicial appointments (gang-of-14?), torture etc.
Obama has CONSISTENTLY aligned himself with the extreme left-wing for all of his short political career. He is a slave of the unions, anti-abortion, anti-voted ID, anti-free trade and a porker. As such - regardless of the election year rhetoric - he has offered no prrof or even HINT of being a moderate or a uniter.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:28PM
It's about time for some value creation through some nation building inside our own borders. If only we had someone who knew what that entailed...
http://www.scopical.com.au/articles/News/5815/Obama-wins-support-of-world's-richest-man
...or you could just listen to a knee-jerk hostile hijacker espousing his short term thoughts.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:30PM
Obama / Bloomberg
Just puttin' it out there
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:30PM
@1:27 I have to agree with you totally here, and I'm a bleeding heart left wing liberal Democrat. Until this election that is, which will be the first time I vote R. Obama has the thinest resume imaginable and is naive about every single issue. I cannot believe that so many people are aligned with him, based it seems on the fact that he's an effective speaker. Amazing.
Posted by Anal_yst , May 22, 2008 1:32PM
totally unrelated, but had to share this earth-shattering discovery from Reuters/DJ:
"13:30 05/22 Study links US weather forecasts to natgas market"
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:33PM
Anyone besides me notice while walking around NY that there are very few "Obama" buttons being sported? It surprises me that for such a supposedly exciting and inspirational candidate, there is a lack of publicly articulated support.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:35PM
History Lesson: Every 12 Years:
1972 - Nixon hammered McGovern.
1984 - Reagan KO'd Mondale.
1996 - Clinton retired Dole.
2008 - McCain trashes NObama (49-1)
The Hatchet Man
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 1:37PM
@1:18: What I mean to say is that, Iran is a legitimate threat to Isreal, but Isreal has a nuclear deterrent.
@Anal_yst: I really hope McCain puts "the mormon" on the ticket. He's an excellent businessman, though. But he has no consistent identifiable values and the mormon thing will really suppress christian conservative turn out.
@1:18:
"McCain was in Vietnam at the time, so I think he knows the consequences of staying there."
Why? I was in a Ford assembly plant once, doesn't mean I can build a Taurus? And the works in the plant are there everyday and that doesn't mean they can run the place. I don't think McCain is wrong in his foreign policy due to lack of incentive. I think his entire world view is wrong. I believe in the walk softly and carry a big stick approach. McCain believes the US can beat everyone else in the world into submission. By isolating and threating countries, you hurt them, but you also lose all leverage you have over them. The goal is to bring them into the fold of other nations, through what ever means are available to achieve you desired result. McCain thinks we could have "won" in vietnam. HELLO we did WIN! we have normalized trade relations with vietnam, they've opened their economy, communism is on the wane. But McCain's binary vision of winning and losing causes him to lose track of what is actually best for this nation, because he wants to "win", "achieve the mission", "complete the objective". I assume this is a product of his training as a fighter pilot. But whatever the cause its a terrible trait for a President.
"That's the problem with the Obamamaniacs: They're zealots and just try to shout down opposition."
I support Hillary Clinton
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:37PM
Random @1:09 Is that really enough to offset losses that are going to come in PA, OH, FL? Remember too that in some polls, NJ, the bluest of the blue, is showing competitive. You're also ignoring the well documented phenomenom of people not answering truthfully when polled, to avoid being labeled racist. O is gonna be toast.
Posted by merkin capital partners , May 22, 2008 1:39PM
they all suck...now more than ever faced with the terrible alternative that is an aged neo-con and the best socialism has to offer.
I'm not voting until Dixiecrat is an option.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:39PM
Random: so i guess your choices are in order: Hillary, Obama, McCain. I think McCain is more Hillary like than you are giving him credit for. Obama should be #3 on your list.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:43PM
Random supports Hillary and defends JC (Jimmy Carter, not John Carney)
enough said.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:46PM
I agree with Merkin, they suck.
So what do you do in that situation?
Vote for the one that will give your wallet the most predictable outcome. Hard to say with Clinton or McCain. Obama's leanings would be a complete meltdown.
So short the market, vote Obama, sit back and wait.
Got Buffet's support. That guy likes to buy cheap.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 1:47PM
@1:37,
I'm not. I never thought Obama would win Iowa. Despite my belief people seem to be significantly less racist than I would have thought. Put yes if Obama losses PA but wins, Missouri and Virginia then he can still win. If Obama is being legitimately contested in NJ then the race is over.
Obviously its impossible for Obama to lose 49-1. Cali, new york, all the true blue states are going to go for him. Also I really think turn out is going to be a serious issue for McCain. While Obama really gins up the democratic base.
@1:25: Young people have, shockingly, been voting this year in the primaries in record numbers. We'll see if it holds true for the general but in the primaries they have actually been voting.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:49PM
RB@1:37,
"Being in the Ford plant every day doesn't mean they can run the place"???
Hello RB = Hillary Fan,
The chef was in the White House for 8 years too.
Hillary is better than NObama, but I'd rather see NObama because he's easier for McCain to trash.
The Hatchet Man
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 1:49PM
"McCain thinks we should have stayed in Vietnam". Uh, he was a POW being beaten and tortured regularly. Staying in Vietnam means he would have spent a few more years behind bars or been killed. If he was willing to put his own ass on the line, then he must really have thought it worthwhile.
Just like he's willing to put his kids' asses on the line in Iraq. Must really mean something for him. I don't imagine it is an easy decision to send your own kid to a war zone.
Sweet Lord, how did I end up defending McCain all morning long? I'm a Democrat for pete's sake. It's gotta speak to the level of dissatisfaction I have with the Obama alternative.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 1:56PM
@ 1:43
I don't defend Carter so much as I think Reagan was a terrible President.
@ 1:39
I support Clinton because I prefer strong arm tactics and have no interest in "bringing the country together". I would rather the democratic nominee use every dirty trick in the book once elected to try to weaken the republican party. In terms of "the issues" i'm to the left of obama and clinton.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 1:59PM
@ Hatchet:
Just because McCain was in the vietman war doesn't mean he knows how to run foreign policy or properly asses the costs and benefits of the conflict he always seems to be a proponent of.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:07PM
@Randombanker: I think you forgot the obligatory "BYAAAAHHHHHHHHH" at the end of your 1:09 comment
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:09PM
"McCain would be a tough world leader, but there was never a military effort that he didn't think should be fought to conclusion "
Mccain opposed leaving troops in Lebanon. He sponsored an amendment to cut of funding for mission to Somalia. He opposed sending the military to Haiti.
Maybe you should not just get your history lessons fro Hillary Clinton speeches.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:15PM
Oh ok Random Banker @ 1:59. So what exactly is Obama's case for POTUS? The fact that he gives great prepared speeches?
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 2:15PM
I supported Governor Dean in his 2004 bid for the Democratic Nomination. And prefer him still to both Obama and Clinton.
Posted by Mikeshardlemon , May 22, 2008 2:17PM
Icahn has a point. I mean, imagine--we could have enormous budget deficits, outrageous pork-barrel spending, and rising inflation. Oh wait, that is happening and has been since 2001. Ask yourselves this: are you better off today than you were 8 years ago?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:17PM
Dean is running a hell of a show over there so far. His talents were not those of a POTUS.
Posted by big r , May 22, 2008 2:18PM
Unrelated #1 - Carney timed his political post perfectly. Let the commenters carry him through to the afternoon so he can eat his egg salad in peace.
Unrelated #2 - 2:17 has an awesome tag name
Posted by Mikeshardlemon , May 22, 2008 2:20PM
Thanks, big r
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:24PM
Random: @2:15 makes an excellent point. Simply put, what is the case for Obama as POTUS? Don't say he's a uniter: he's never reached across the aisle; in fact did nothing of consequence in either the Illinois or US Senate. Don't say post-racial: not if he sat in Wright's pew for 15 yrs. You can't say experience - community organizer doesn't count. WHAT IS IT WITH THIS GUY THAT MAKES PEOPLE SO GOO GOO EYED? Are you buying that he offers hope? Is that all it takes? I'm a life long D and just cannot get through my head that he is nothing more than a smooth talker.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:27PM
"higher interest rates and accelerating inflation"?
I know spending is the other side of the equation (though McCain's proposed budget is way more unbalanced than either Hillary's or Obama's), but someone is going to have to raise interest rates. If one of the only good things Carter did was appoint Volcker, Obama could serve the same purpose, protect the dollar and be out after 1 term, because no one likes to take their medicine.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:27PM
@2:15 For the record. Re the denigration of Dean, I heard him speak on multiple occasions when Gov of VT and a POTUS contender. He had an excellent grasp of policy issues and the practical solution of same. He's now unfairly being made a caricature.
Posted by strangebrew , May 22, 2008 2:35PM
Random,
How is Iran a joke? Europe has been trying to 'bring them into the fold' for years now to no avail. Why is Ahmedinjad so into uranium enrichment? It can't be used in their ZERO functioning nuke power plants. The one plant that is being built will be running on material supplied by the Russians.
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 2:36PM
@mikeshardlemon - I agree with big r, great screen name...
@1:49 - agreed, Hilary can't remember if she was dodging bullets or kissing little kids, wtf? you don't make "those" types of mistakes.
let's make one thing clear, it's about the company you keep. who's going to surround him/herself with the smartest people? mcc would do well to have romney in there to provide some much needed muscle in the economics department. hilary has way too many favors to pay back to get some really smart folks on her team. the big O is indeed a wild card. we have a tough choice ahead this november. despite bloomberg's quirks, he would be a great asset.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 2:38PM
Well I'm a liberal, so McCain policy on abortion, gay marriage, and most important supreme court nominations are unacceptable to me. If I didn't think he'd nominate right wing nuts to the Supreme Court, maybe I'd consider him, but I also don't think is foreign policy is very wise and he knows shit about economics. So really the democrats could run Sasha Obama or Chelsea Clinton and I'd vote for them against McCain. The reality is that even if I agreed with them on all of the issues I still wouldn't vote for any republican because of the supreme court nominations factor.
As for Obama, I think he's capable enough. Which is the only real requirement to be president. Kennedy was capable enough. While Buchanan and Nixon were two of our most experienced candidates and were complete disasters. Either you got it or you don't, to some extent.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:39PM
RB,
NObama's suit is as empty as your head.
Oh well, back to work at JPM. Structured Investments needs culling.
Busy day today indeed.
The Hatchet Man
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 2:44PM
@ 2:35: Oh, they clearly want a nuclear weapon. North Korea already has them. The Soviets had thousands. We'll make it through Iran having 1.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:47PM
cluzo@2:38,
"Tough choice ahead this November"???
Is your head as empty as RB's?
Seriously, I really do need to get back to work. JD is asking me for the latest body count.
The Hatchet Man
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:48PM
2:38 said - "I think he's capable enough."
Brilliant argument. Incidentally, funny that you brought up Kennedy coz he got dismembered on Liberal Times.. oops.. NY Times today. Didn't get your morning's dose of liberal angst did you?
Oh, and beyond that - Kennedy's entire foreign policy was a disaster. Stop learning from hippies from huffpo and dailykos and go read up some history for yourself.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/opinion/22thrall.html?hp
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:53PM
2:38 said - "I think he's capable enough."
Brilliant argument. Incidentally, funny that you brought up Kennedy coz he got dismembered on Liberal Times.. oops.. NY Times today. Didn't get your morning's dose of liberal angst did you?
Oh, and beyond that - Kennedy's entire foreign policy was a disaster. Stop learning from hippies from huffpo and dailykos and go read up some history for yourself.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/opinion/22thrall.html?hp
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 2:54PM
Cluzo is kidding(himself?). he(cluzo) is black, and its not a tough choice.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 2:57PM
cluzo is da man bro. he a playahhh, dont be hatin' on the playahhh,,you white honky racist!!
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 3:01PM
@random banker - I am fiscally conservative (some might even say right wing). I take issue with some/most/all of the socialist propaganda coming from the dems camp. and yes, I am a he, and I am black. that doesn't mean I have to vote for obama, and I'm definitely not going to allow two families control the white house for 2 decades...definitely not kidding myself, I need to see who's going to be the yang to mcc's yin (and likewise for barry).
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:01PM
"The Soviets had thousands. We'll make it through Iran having 1"
Clear proof of why handing over the country to the liberals will be a disaster for people here and a bonanza for terrorist - no wonder hamas (and surely al queda) are overjoyed at the prospect.
Hey retard - the Soviets never used their thousands because the American's thousands were a good enough deterrant for them. The feared being annihilated themselves. Hence it worked.
On the other hand, in case you did not realize it - the jehadis are nihilistic. They would love nothing more than killing some infidels, even if it brought upon them their own death because such a death would guarantee 72 virgins in heaven. And who doesn't like 72 virgins to himself!!!
1 nuclear weapon with the jehadis is worse than a million with the soviets because you had a deterrant in the second case. What is the deterrant in the first? When did the soviets ever directly attack American mainland killing 3000 people? And did the jehadis?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:08PM
Wow, look how fast this divulged away from the man himself, Carl Icahn. To answer Diablo's question about who Icahn is supporting, check out Dealscape's post about the same subject. Evidently, Icahn's making it a practice of talking politics rather than business at conferences, according to Dealscape. While at a Riskmetrics conference in February, he said nearly the same things about Hillary Clinton that he's now saying about Barack Obama. Of course back then it was ahead of Super Tuesday, so she was still the front runner.
http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008/05/icahn_blasts_obama_at_investor.php
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:08PM
cluzo is gonna write in Barry for prez, cause the two of them are playahhs and love the white wimmins...
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 3:09PM
@2:57 - where have you been? I was expecting some of your classic feedback on my posts yesterday. must be busy at work. too bad they took down your post last week. I'm sure you were really proud of your thoughtful commentary.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:10PM
Jihadis are quite clearly not militarists. They stand for forming through force of violence an Islamic theocracy throughout the Muslim world, especially but not limited to Israel, and including other more moderate and sometimes democratic Muslim nations like Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. Eventually Turkey and Spain too no doubt.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 3:11PM
@ 2:53:
first of, while I am too the left I am not a huffington post, daily kos or even NPR liberal. Kennedy's foreign policy was not a disaster, though the bay of pigs was, he redeemed himself during the missile crisis.
I do think Obama is capable enough. As I said, there isn't really any situation where I'd vote for a republican so I don't really need a selling point for Obama except that he's not a republican. Now the reason I don't like republicans has mostly to do with me being an atheist. So as long as they're basing policy on theological moralizing then I won't vote for them. Now McCain doesn't really believe in any of that religious mumbo jumbo but I'm quite afraid he will try to appease christian conservatives by nominating religious nuts to the supreme court. And (AGAIN) that is why I'll vote for Obama, it really has nothing to do with him you see, so his qualities are virtually irrelevant to me.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:12PM
err, Jihadis are quite clearly not nihilists is what I meant to say
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:13PM
@cluzo--yeah, i was busy at work. With all your posting and endless ego stroking about attending dinners and playing golf, do you even have a job?
I mean that isnt EEO driven.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:15PM
You ask why all those people love obama when so far all he has done is be a great orator? Perhaps those are the same people/idiots who gave the single worst president in the history of the united states a 2nd term bush/cheney. Regardless of who comes we are screwed. WTF do you think any of them are going to do about $175 oil and & $7 a gallon gas. The demand destruction that occurs in the USA because of high prices no longer matters because the rest of the world will drink what we do not. Has one of them come out with a comprehensive, long term energy policy that is based on the fact that the world uses 87 million boe/d and we can barely produce 85 million boe/d? This issue should be the most important as is affects everything and everyone.
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 3:18PM
@3:13 - according to you, everthing I have is EEO driven, but this isn't about me. what was keeping you so busy yesterday?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:18PM
RB & cluzo,
"Stick to the Knitting", ie to the things you know something about, ie to your jobs?
On a political thread like this one, you two provide comic entertainment, and not much more.
Damn, I'm getting a blister on my hand today from swinging that f*****g axe.
BTW, In what departments are cluzo and RB? Perhaps the Man over where they are is in dire need of someone with, shall I say, my special talents?
The Hatchet Man
Posted by strangebrew , May 22, 2008 3:21PM
Random,
It is great how you have so much fear of and hatred for fellow citizens who you consider 'religious nuts' because they don't view the Constitution as a living document. Yet you completely write-off actual religious nuts that do wish you harm and want to change the way you live your life. That's astonishing.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 3:23PM
@3:01
No you're the retard. Our incursions in the middle east are creating more Jihadis no fewer. Further, while Iran is a theocracy and Ahmadinejad may believe that the 13th imam is coming soon but, IRAN IS NOT ALQEADA. They're not even the same sect. This is like you worrying that Spain might get a nuclear bomb because the IRA uses terrorist tactics. Its people like you who are too stupid to know you're a fuck up, who are the reason that 25 million Iraqis want to kill us now. Just sit your ass down before you make anything worse.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:23PM
ps - in case anyone doubts the wisdom and necessity of a comprehensive energy plan remember this - iran would not have a nuclear weapon if they didn't have the OIL MONEY to pay for it.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:24PM
"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws."
- Mayer Amschel Rothschild
Funny how emotional people get over a topic like this when it makes very little difference who is sitting in the oval office, which was originally meant to be the weaker branch of government.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:25PM
I'm going to take issue with "actual religious nuts that wish us harm". I think the threat is rather overblown and raised largely as a ploy to reelect GWB in 2004. It certainly was not diminished by the invasion of Iraq.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:28PM
cluzo--lightening up the portfolio. everybody was busy, well, anyone with a serious job that is.
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 3:29PM
@hatchet - you are providing me comic relief and that's about it. aside from the history lesson, I haven't seen any support for your views. please provide something tangible. saying obama is an empty suit doesn't qualify. as for your services, there is plenty of dead wood at 277 park. keep chopping away.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 3:30PM
@ strangebrew:
No fear, just hatred. These idiots in this country have a lot greater impact on my day to day life than the idiots in Iran. I have no interest in getting in a way back machine a reversing every supreme court decision since Brown so that conservatives can go back to living the way things were in 50's. They say "conservative values" I say bigotry and repression.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:30PM
3:25 wow. you live on planet hollywood or something?
RB: 3:23 it's a pretty well documented fact that the disparate violent terrorist groups have played very nice with each other over the decades, as long as they were not directly ideologically at odds. e.g. the IRA, ETA, and inumerable middle eastern factions.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:34PM
@3:11, now you are downright lying.
Of the 2 candidates right now, Obama is the one who is way way way more down with Jesus than McCain ever has been in his life. And Obama wears it on his sleeves.
I like the hypocrisy of you lefties. The Democrats now count just as many religious fanatics within their ranks as do the Repubs.
If anything, at least the right wingnut love America. The left wing fanatics hate America. And I do not see how any advice from Wright would be better than some advice from Hagee.
Oh, and lets drop teh 'Obama doesn't beleive Wright' crap. The guy threw Wright under teh bus only when things become intolerably clear. There is no way on earth that he did not know about Wright's views for 15 years. In that, Obama is lying just as much as you are over here.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:34PM
2:57, 3:08, 3:13: Enough of the racist crap, thanks. Get back to work clearing those trade breaks.
RB: You have the most cockamamie answer for supporting Obama: "I'm an Atheist". Well, I've heard more "Jeebus Saved Me" preaching coming out of the Obama camp than Huckabees lately.
Your bar for qualifications is pretty low. You'd settle for "capable enough". To me, those are code words for "A Rookie." That's not a rousing defense against charges that he is inexperienced and not ready.
"Chatting with Amedinejad" is going to be the issue that sinks Obama's candidacy. It makes him sound naive and Carter-esque. He will be blown out 49-1. Maybe 47-3 if he keeps NY & CA & Mass. If Hillary doesn't stab him in the back first.
Posted by strangebrew , May 22, 2008 3:35PM
@3:25-
Those people have been at war with us long before GWB was anywhere near the white house. If anything we didn't pay enough attention to that threat. Hey, here is a list of other non-threatening events that happened even before Gulf War I.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html
I guess your view is we should do nothing and just suck it up when some of us get killed every once in a while?
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 3:35PM
@ 3:30 so what're you trying to say? bin laden is in North Korea right now? How do you know this? I'm calling homeland security on your ass now.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:37PM
@3.34--what "cockamamie"? Is that some sort of sex joke?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:38PM
Not that he's there. But that our pompadoured friend on the peninsula would certainly be happy to give him a bazooka or two if it wasn't too inconvenient.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:39PM
@ 3:21
I don't mean to answer for RB but i can't help it - seriously this is this best you got.
The religious nut in the white house has changes the way we will live FOREVER not the "muslim or jihadist". Under this adminstration we have become more like the people we fear and less like the people we want the world to admire. We waged a war based on lies. We spy on one another. We torture people. We hold them for years without charging them with anything and when we know that they did nothing we try and cover it up least we "look bad". I am not a bleeding heart liberal but seriously how can these things not cause you outrage? And this is the tip of the iceberg.
Perhaps RB see's the fact that just because you are American putting the word faith in front of a behavior does not justify or make right that behavior.
Sorry RB for speaking for putting words in your mouth.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 3:39PM
Seriously though 3:30. I hear you, I just think our methods are actually creating a BIGGER risk that we are going to be attacked. I'm not opposed to hunting down terrorists and killing them. I'm not even opposed to covertly infiltrating Iran to derail their nuclear program. But I am against an overt and aggressive foreign policy which causes huge amounts of collateral damage and create more enemies than it destroys.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:40PM
@ 3:21
I don't mean to answer for RB but i can't help it - seriously this is this best you got.
The religious nut in the white house has changes the way we will live FOREVER not the "muslim or jihadist". Under this adminstration we have become more like the people we fear and less like the people we want the world to admire. We waged a war based on lies. We spy on one another. We torture people. We hold them for years without charging them with anything and when we know that they did nothing we try and cover it up least we "look bad". I am not a bleeding heart liberal but seriously how can these things not cause you outrage? And this is the tip of the iceberg.
Perhaps RB see's the fact that just because you are American putting the word faith in front of a behavior does not justify or make right that behavior.
Sorry RB for speaking for putting words in your mouth.
Posted by strangebrew , May 22, 2008 3:40PM
Random,
How has your life been so terribly repressed by Bu$Hitler and his religious fanatic nominees over the past 7.5 years?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:42PM
@randombanker--seeing as you live 60 minutes outside a major city, do these issues affect you?
I mean if obl showed up in West Orange, NJ, would anyone care?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:49PM
@3:23 there you go spouting dailykos talking points again!
It does not matter what 'sect' Iran belongs to. When it comes to America / Israel and the Western nations - these countries think and react exactly think any different, be they Syria, Iran, Somalia, Pakistan, Indonesia or even their co-religionists in country like India. When a cartoon is published, the Shias dont exactly sit back.
And the nuclear weapons of one country(Pakistan) are already making the whole world pee blood trying to keep them under control. Iran is no moderate nation like Turkey and has been a non-stop trouble maker for quite some time. Your view of them as something from another planet because they are no Sunni is beyond retarded.
The number of jihadis willing to kill others has never gone down in the last 50 years, and never will. I do not see what there is to negotiate with people whose aim is a global islamic empires and death of all infidels. Obama may find negotiation easy because he was born a muslim and can easily reconvert once the political reasons for converting to christianity are gone. May not be so easy for the rest of us.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:49PM
guest@3:15,
"Bush = Worst pres in US History"?
You must be clueless about any history prior to 2001.
Don't forget that "Great Society" legacy of the criminal bastard Lyndon Johnson.
And my all-time favorite, Princeton's own, Woodrow Wilson who singlehandedly allowed the Bolsheviks to succeed in the Russian civil war, and who also singlehandedly so dismantled and demoralized Germany that he gave rise to to the National Socialists, ie NAZIs.
Your comment about the Bush presidency is so whacked-out that you shouldn't be allowed to roam free in society.
Strangebrew@3:21,
Great posting. You know what the hell you are talking about.
RB & cluzo,
The two of you are neophytes. Unbelieveably ignorant. Pathetic.
The Hatchet Man
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 3:53PM
@3:34: Uh, its not cockamamie at all, I don't so much support Obama as I am against republicans.
@3:11. First I don't think Obama actually believes any of that religion shit I think he just pretends to get elected. However, even if he did believe he would still appoint supreme court justice in keeping with his liberal track record, which is the only reason religion is an issue in the first place. As for revered Wright, that has nothing to do with religion. The issue there is that black people don't trust white people and they tend to see the world differently. Wright didn't say anything I disagreed with except the whole HIV thing. Obviously that's related to urban legend around regarding the Tuskegee Syphilis experiments. But if it turned out the government did invent HIV to kill black people, i wouldn't be surprised. It would still only be the second worst thing the government would have done to black people. Now of course the reality is that HIV wouldn't be a very effective way to kill black people, so I think the government would probably use some other tactic if that were its goal.
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 3:55PM
@hatchet - once again, a whole lot of nothing. pathetic indeed. please provide some support your man or stfu...and go back to choppin'
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:55PM
Hatchet Man
Name 5 good things that bush has done in the past 7 years?
guest @ 3:15
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 3:55PM
The big question is, for whom is Sykes gonna vote? Timmay, what say you?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:00PM
Random you shameless liar. At least be consistent on teh same page!
First you say Iran having one weapon is no big deal because soviets had thousands and nothing happened. And 20 minutes down you say "I'm not even opposed to covertly infiltrating Iran to derail their nuclear program"
If you believe the first then why would you NOT be opposed to the second? Because you ran out of fake arguments?
And when the covert operation is revealed and Iran takes 100 Americans hostages, what will you do? Cry yourself to sleep like liberal warrior hamas fetishist Jimmy Carter?
Incidentally bipartisan surveys of presidential historians ranks Bush in the middle of the pack. AHEAD of Clinton. Chew on that.
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 4:00PM
@random - you've taken it a little too far with the HIV to kill black people thing. while the government has been known to do some nefarious stuff, I'm not sure we need to go there.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:03PM
I hate to say it, truly I do, but I gotta agree 110% with cluzo's 4.00PM post.
Cluzo--thats why you're a playahhh, you call 'em like they are
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 4:05PM
@strangebrew
While Bush has been an unmitigated disaster. It will take sometime for the impact of Alito and Robert's appoint to the supreme to actually effect life in this country. I know what the conservative agenda is, I know who he appointed, I can see where this is going. Should McCain get to replace a justice then I fear for the direction of the country. Look at Grutter v. Bollinger. O'Conor was the swing vote in that case. She's gone. That could easily be reversed. Obviously, they're gunning for Roe v. Wade. Then it'll be the Americans with disabilities act. Its disgusting really.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:08PM
Whats really disgusting is great guys are out of jobs while randonclown posts endlessly and still has a job. Or does he?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:10PM
cluzo said - "please provide something tangible. saying obama is an empty suit doesn't qualify."
Should you first be making a case FOR Obama as POTUS. And that was in response to RB. Heres the case we have for Obama so far
- RB thinks "he's capable enough."
- He is not a not a Republican bible-thumper (but a Democratic one)
- RB also thinks that "Obama actually believes any of that religion shit I think he just pretends to get elected." - translation - he is LYING in his campaign
The third point there is the most interesting one. So if he is lying about the 'religion shit' in his campaign the appeal to a certain demographic, what ELSE is he lying about the appeal to others? Is he lying about his links to terrorists like Ayers?
If his supporters themselves are claiming that he lies to pander when convenient, how can anyone else anything he says at face value? Wow! Astounding!!!
Posted by merkin capital partners , May 22, 2008 4:10PM
I love Wright's AIDS argument...he's basically theorizing that the govt sat around asking themselves, "Who will be dumb enough to allow this to proliferate? EUREKA!"
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 4:11PM
@4:00.
I'm really a very Machiavellian guy. I have no problem with us manipulating other countries or engaging in any number nefarious deeds. I just don't think we should be seen to do, because the act of doing it undermines our main objective. I think we'd be better off with out Iran having nuclear weapons. But I also think that Iran with 1 weapon is not worth the cost to us of having air strikes. How if the iranian nuclear facilities were to suffer catastrophic failures which could be attributed to no nation in particular, that's a different story.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:13PM
I think randonclown has Montezuma's revenge in his typing fingers.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:13PM
guest@3:15,
The only thing I need to know about Bush is that there has not been a terrorist attack in the US since 9/11. The safety of America is the number one duty of the president, you idiot.
cluzo,
EEO, afirmative action, uptown negro, a black man who hates himself and wants to be white. Vote for Obama dude. It won't get you any closer.
The Hatchet Man
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:17PM
I think randonclown is a "she".
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:17PM
@4.13--hey hey,,dont go hatin' on my man Cluzo. Thats my job.
seriously dude, you went too far.
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 4:19PM
@4:10 - I'm not making a case for anyone. I'm just sitting here watching the obama bashing, while waiting for a case to be made for mcc. I've made my stance clear - I vote with my wallet. as a resident of new york with no kids and a mortgage, my main concern is taxes. check the tape (my screen name makes it easy). unfortunately, I don't know which posts are yours to provide me any of your previous comments (good, bad, or otherwise).
@4:13 - closer to what?
@4:17 - you do a better job anyway, I think you were the first commentor to ever have his? post taken down.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 4:21PM
@ 4:10
YOU don't get it. I'm not making the case for Obama.
I like my candidates to lie. The reason I support Hillary Clinton is because I think she is very good at lying and cheating. Look guy, I have a side, this is a culture war. I don't care what my side has to do as long as it wins. If that's vote fraud, lying, character assassination, blackmail. whatever it takes man.
@ cluzo:
Eh, I wouldn't put it past our government. Obviously Tuskegee, the Japaneses interment camps, segregation, slavery. I mean really this country has done some fucked up shit. I'm not sure infecting people with HIV is really that far out there. Now of course its ludicrous because you don't want to let lose a virus in your own population. But its not ludicrous because its inconceivable.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:22PM
clueless--and I'm proud of that as you should be to. The basis of our friendship is annoying the crap out of each other over things we have no control of or even care about.
Can I call you my Negro Amigo?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:26PM
@randomclown who lives 60 minutes outside a city-- bankers are in the business of business, not the business of politics. Getting all worked up over politics will just get you fired.
Your lack of experience truly shines today.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:28PM
4:11, you wish you were whatever. Here's proof of your retardedness.
No one makes just '1' nuclear bomb and sits happy. They set up and infrastructure capable of churning out nuclear bombs. The point is - if they are constantly being asked to stop from doing so by the world (look-up all the resolutions against Iran) and they flatly thumb everyone else's noses, what do you do.
Apparently your tiny mind is incapable of grasping that. You think Iran is trying to buy a nuke from a shop and put it up on display so no force is required. You would use force if they tried to buy 100. Keep up the good work genius!
@3:39 - here is the collection of 'lies' that led to the Iraq war. Pay close attention to who the 'liars' were.
http://freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 4:29PM
@4:22 - that's a new one. but, uhhhh no. okay, back to clearing trades.
@rb - you must be reading the black swan...
where is Anal_yst? with the holiday weekend fast approaching, today is the day for happy hour. the LIE is going to be packed tomorrow around noon...
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:31PM
guest@4:26,
Let's get more of them all worked up so more of them will be fired. Sounds like a plan.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:31PM
cluz--you clear trades? dude, thats great...but if you want to be cool, say metro-north instead of lie. lie/lirr is for operations/auditors etc, metro-north is for winners.
Posted by Investorcluzo , May 22, 2008 4:34PM
@4:31 - forgot, I guess I should have given a "shout out" to the garden state parkway. you headed to the "shore" this weekend?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:38PM
cluzoster--not at all. the gsp is for losers as well. Try saying the merritt, its for cool guys like us. Ok, together, metro-north, merritt, next week we'll work on greenwich.
or just say you're going to catch the 5.56 to OG for chad and meredith's annual bbq for the best saugys and beer.
dont forget to wear your pastel outfit too.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 4:49PM
@4:28:
I wouldn't advocate a military intervention if they tried to get 100 either. I think demonizing a country for trying to get nuclear weapons when he have enough to blow up the world many times over is silly. Now I do agree, again, strategically it is not in our interesting for them to have nucs. What I disagree with is the best way eliminate Iran as a potential threat. I think slowly westernizing them through an exchange of culture and opening them will be a far more successful strategy to neutralizing them than using an overly aggressive policy. By driving the iranian people away from us we greatly increase the threat to us should they have get nukes. If chinese cruise missiles started falling in the US because they didn't want us to develop some new weapons system, would be listen to them about their reasoning? No we'd just hate them and vow revenge.
Also China is the real threat to this nation anyway, if someone wants to pose a strategy for a successful military preemption in China, I might be willing to listen to that.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:51PM
@4.49--I'd advocate for your employer to cut off your internet access so you stop annoying us for 5 minutes.
shouldnt you be emptying trash cans or delivering mail about now>
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:51PM
@4:38 = Cool? HaHaHa!!!
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:53PM
Mac is the the only candidate left who believes that diplomacy is not going to quell violent terrorists (islamic or otherwise). If you believe that Obama/Hillary are smart enough to talk belligerent militarized non-governmental private armies out of seeking to take down the West, you can vote for them. Otherwise, you have Mac.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:54PM
pc or mac? the age old issue.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:58PM
guest@4:49,
I'm with you. Cut off randonclown's access to the internet.
The Hatchet Man
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 4:58PM
China has been westernizing culturally for the last what 40 years or so? If it's good enough for Iran in your opinion shouldnt be good enough for China too?
There is a certain disconnect between the man on the street and the man in the presidential palace in Iran, like in China, etc. Iran is actually a pretty good example in that the regime does not necessarily reflect the populace, which is relatively well educated and used to be fairly liberal or at least ammenable to coexisting with the West peacefully.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 5:07PM
Hatchet Man and @ 3:39 (aka elizabeth hasselback)
All pro bush people say that he is responsible for the fact that there has not been a terrorist attack ON AMERICAN soil in the last 7 years. How do you know that? After all he is responsible for overlooking the Aug 2001 briefing that stated "Osama bin laden to hit the USA". He is also responsible for the thousands of American's in Iraq who have been killed by terrorist attacks. And he is responsible for the creation of a whole new group of terrorists. Also you would have to be pro every president except for FDR if your benchmark for being pro a president is the lack of a terrorist attack on USA soil. So again list 5 good things he has done for the country.
And as far as lies that got us into the war - WTF ARE THE WMD?
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 5:08PM
@4:53 A very simplistic view. Read the cover story by Matt Bai in last Sunday's NY Times Magazine. McCain's view is much more nuanced and totally reasonable, even to a liberal. Not too different from Hillary's actually but a much better alternative to the Obama kumbaya stuff.
Posted by Random Banker , May 22, 2008 5:10PM
@4:58:
China is a threat precisely because they've westernized, now they're going to supplant us. Iran doesn't have a large enough population to be a threat to us economically, the way the chinese are. Iran's population is all nice and liberal now, but once McCain starts sending cruise missiles the size of telephone poles through the sides of their houses, they're going to become real unenlightened real quick.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 6:08PM
Oh Random Banker, regarding the whole 'crazy supreme court' thing, take this last thing up your a** for the day. This just fresh from the NYT (so that you can't go screaming 'vast right wing conspiracy').
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/us/23memo.html?hp
Posted by counterclockwise , May 22, 2008 9:12PM
Wow. A lot of comments. I'm still working but taking a break to check DB.
One commenter responded to an earlier post I made about McCain never foregoing an opportunity to engage in military action:
"McCain opposed leaving troops in Lebanon. He sponsored an amendment to cut off funding for mission to Somalia. He opposed sending the military to Haiti."
I'll have to check these facts out. Maybe I'm wrong, in which case I'll be glad, because McCain does have some qualities I admire. Thank you for the specificity of your response.
Btw, I don't get my history lessons from Hillary Clinton speeches. Honestly, I find it very difficult to listen to Hillary Clinton speeches. I think she's down for the count anyway in this Presidential race, and I'm really, really sick of hearing Paul Begala and Lanny Davis argue on CNN that she still has a chance. If anyone needs to be cut-off from a mic, it's those two.
Responding to some other stuff that was posted: I believe McCain got out of POW prison before the end of the Viet Nam war. I believe I actually heard McCain say that we never gave winning in Viet Nam a fair chance.
LBJ escalated the war effort right after the 1964 election and I don't believe we got out until the fall of Saigon, which I think happened in 1973, so not counting our advisory years under Kennedy, we gave it nine years. I have forgotten how much we spent, but we did lose more than 75,000 men and women. Given the additional facts that our opponent actually took over the country and our folks scrambled to escape by helicopter, I'd say we gave the Viet Nam war effort enough.
Cluzo, sorry to see the racist idiot was back online today.
Btw, don't agree with the theory that HIV was invented to exterminate blacks. It's just nonsense and ignores the scientific facts about the emergence of the virus.
Posted by guest , May 22, 2008 9:45PM
I wouldn't vote for anyone over 70 years old. Everyone is pretty loopy after that age.
Posted by guest , May 23, 2008 9:25AM
We never found out who Sykes is supporting. Timmay where u at dawg?
Posted by guest , May 23, 2008 1:43PM
I would love for Bloomberg to run for president, but I think he is too smart for all of this. He will run in 4 years, after the newest president has royally screwed up, and clean up the mess. Hero of the day.
GO BLOOMBERG!
Posted by guest , May 23, 2008 6:29PM
As a successful small business owner, I agree with the analysis. I recently attended a meeting with some of my colleagues and we shudder to think of the damage an Obama presidency will do to the economy.
Perhaps, we should require that voters pass a basic economic test before they can step into the voting booth.
Come to think of it, we should administer the same test to the candidates.
Posted by guest , May 27, 2008 4:15PM
Here's a actual excerpt from YO-bama's Memorial-Day speech:
"We are gathered here to honor our fallen heroes, some of whom are here with us today."
YO-bama = genuine empty suit.