Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and UBS said this morning that they have agreed to share their "dark pools," the trading arenas used by institutional investors seeking to trade large blocks of stocks without alerting the broader market about such moves. All of the major investment banks operate dark pools, with Goldman Sachs widely thought to be the industry leader.
Dark pools have been criticized as sapping transparency from the market, perhaps making pricing less efficient and certainly creating more uncertainty about the actual volume of shares trading hands. Large trading orders are broken into smaller pieces and matched to other orders by computers. Traditionally this has been done internally within each individual bank. Under the plan announced today, Goldman, UBS and Morgan Stanley will allow for the secretive trading to take place between their clients. The pools are Goldman's Sigma X, Morgan Stanley's MS POOL and UBS's PIN ATS.
The move threatens to take business away from the public stock exchanges and furthers consolidation in the brokerage industry, as the large investment banks with many clients are obviously best positioned to employ dark pools. Dark pools now account for some 10 percent of equities trading in the United States, and more than 20% of all trades in New York Stock Exchange-listed stocks.
Goldman, UBS and Morgan Stanley agree on dark pools [Reuters]
Posted by onetwo , May 20, 2008 9:25AM
ooooohhhhh "dark mysterious pools of capital"...the end is nigh!...repent you sourcerers of commerce!
In all seriousness, this is probably not what the banks should be doing, given the heavy hands that are about to bitch slap the industry. Anything with even the appearence of secrecy or impropriety will only fuel the fire of increased regulation. I don't agree with that sentiment, but i don't think right now is quite the time for the b/ds to start yelling "dont look over here...nothing to see."
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:33AM
it's no different than crossing stock upstairs really. It's just automated and more anonymous-
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:35AM
tell me more about the secret thing. Don't all trades have to "print" on the NYSE consolidated tape. If so, no secret here. Just efficiency, lower transaction costs (both implicit and explicit - see CFA study notes).
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:40AM
9:35 you are correct. The trades will print out loud once they are done.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:42AM
Dark pools allow MMs to trade directly with each other, eliminating the exchange all-together. In this case, the banks are connecting clients in these dark pools, allowing for greater anonymity. If you're moving big blocks of stock, you don't want Joey on the flow-ah to know about it.
Posted by HAM05 , May 20, 2008 9:43AM
carney, your eyes are deep dark pools of mystery
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:43AM
Any idea why aren't the big index players - Barclay Global, State Street - aren't in on this as well?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:46AM
HAM: you're hilarious. A few weeks ago took my daughter to look at schools, among them Hamilton. Nice place but I couldn't shake the thought while I was there that she would be around boys like you. Not sure how I feel about that.
Posted by big r , May 20, 2008 9:50AM
9:46 is a dad with an 17/18 yr old daughter? DB's audience broader than I thought.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:54AM
@9:46 here. Yeah. Its hard to see the screen with cataracts plus I can't type given the arthritic condition in my hands. Plus my bladder is in such a state that I'm running to the bathroom every five minutes. Its difficult, but yes I look at DB.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:54AM
Kids only go to Hamilton if they cant get in to a real school
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:56AM
Send some pictures of your daughter.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 9:58AM
If they can't get into Colgate.
Post some pictures of your daughter.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:00AM
Now this is news worthy of discussing both in chat rooms like this and on the air. So where is that dope from CNBC who fouls the air each day with his non-news about industry layoffs and fabrications about subprime write-offs using his keen eye for the obvious? The Gasbagarino lacks the intellectual depth to understand a dark pool from shit pool. Armed with his double digit IQ and market savvy, the KING OF THE MUTE BUTTON could not string together the requisite words to add any value to such a dialogue. So here's to the most overpaid man in business cable news - nice job getting out front on this one. Keep up the good job of breaking wind rather than news.
At your service - Judge Judy here.
Posted by big r , May 20, 2008 10:01AM
ha 9:46. clever, but not what i meant.
in my experiences the seasoned veterans in this industry lack the sense of humor that DB thrives on.
as for your daughter, there's "boys like you" everywhere. just ask girl, golden girl, etc. set that butterfly free.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:04AM
I'd like to tap into your daughter's dark pool... if you know what I mean.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:10AM
I'm just saying: her dark pool is probably a nice source of liquidity... if you know what I mean.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:16AM
@9:56,9:58,10:04am...
You must be the same clown over on the Erin Callan thread who is repeatedly posting "I'd hit that".
Tell us a little about yourself.
The Guy from Delaware.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:23AM
Guy From Delaware,
I got an error that said the 9:56 post didn't post, and I realized I wanted to add to the comment. I'm a long-time reader, first-time poster, I hadn't posted anything in the Erin Callan thread. But I may now. Because I would hit that.
And by way... I've sex with gayer guys than you on the way to having sex with guys.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:23AM
@9:58: couldn't have said it better myself. Hamilton is to Colgate as Wachovia is to Goldman Sachs... if Wachovia served organic free-range granola flakes in the cafeteria and Goldman offered a professional barber service and monogrammed towels next to the squash courts.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:24AM
@9:58: couldn't have said it better myself. Hamilton is to Colgate as Wachovia is to Goldman Sachs... if Wachovia served organic free-range granola flakes in the cafeteria.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:28AM
There is a deep, dark pool of anal piss sitting on the floor next to my desk. Thank you Kati rolls.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:30AM
Where does Hobart fit into all of this?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:38AM
@9:46 here. First, can't believe how the thought of my daughter sight unseen is waking such thoughts in all of you. Clearly you're not getting a sufficient amount of sex. Second, we also visited Colgate et.al. Hate to break it to you, but these places are not as different as you all seem to think.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:44AM
First, does with myself count? Second, I am fully aware of this, as with every other top 25 Northeast liberal arts school.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:51AM
guest@10:23am...
You are just another gay-dominated personality on db. Not very interesting really.
I asked for a little info on you, and I guess I got it.
But tell us this though. If you are such a flaming faggot as you imply, why are you interested in that dude's teenage daughter? Or in Erin for that matter?
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 10:55AM
GFD,
you are an idiot
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:04AM
guest@10:55am...
Brilliant posting. Enlightening.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:07AM
guest@10:55am...
Brilliant posting. Enlightening.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by golden girl , May 20, 2008 11:12AM
Most of the Hamilton guys I know are a lot more fun than the those who went to Colgate. And don't get me started on Camp Trin Trin.
Posted by HAM05 , May 20, 2008 11:12AM
@10:23
colgate is to hamilton as your mom is to my balls. no matter how hard she tries, shell never be more than my personal ball washer.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:12AM
Guy from Delaware, what kind of language is that from a Delawarian? You must be from Wilmington, or at least New Castle County, which is essentially a cesspool formed by the human runoff of Philadelphia and New Jersey.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:17AM
@ 11:12
Zing! You got that one off.
Posted by counterclockwise , May 20, 2008 11:18AM
Frankly, Ham05 seems pretty normal and is frequently funny. Face it, solicitous dad, wherever your daughter goes to school, she's going to be around guys whose sexual interest is on overdrive.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:19AM
Hey guys. Let's cut all the juvenile bang your daughter bullshit and focus on more substantive shit like Judge Judy's commentary about the Gasman. Now that is a witty las. Wonder just what she has under her robe that causes such angst?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:19AM
Hey guys. Let's cut all the juvenile bang your daughter bullshit and focus on more substantive shit like Judge Judy's commentary about the Gasman. Now that is a witty las. Wonder just what she has under her robe that causes such angst?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:22AM
@11:12 replying to 10:23:
The great thing about Colgate is they teach us about things like apostrophes. You know, the little stuff that makes life just a bit more civil for those of us who didn't grow up eating eggplant parm on the hood of a Dodge Neon in the parking lot of a strip mall.
It's cool though. I bet your University of Delaware degree looks great next to your foreclosure notices.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:23AM
I'd like to pound her gavel... if you know what I mean.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:27AM
Hey guys. Let's cut all the juvenile bang your daughter bullshit and focus on more substantive shit like Judge Judy's commentary about the Gasman. Now that is a witty las. Wonder just what she has under her robe that causes such angst?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:34AM
JJ, you are indeed a witty las. So, are you like the Gasman's exwife?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:40AM
Just saw a segment on CNBC about possible collusion between oil research and Goldman traders. Gasbag wrote a book about this shit (he was four years late with it - but who's counting)back in 2003 with the securities analysts. So why wouldn't CNBC have him on to discuss this? Answer = even they don't believe his bullshit and they write his paycheck. JUDGE JUDY IS SPOT ON!
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 11:48AM
Pretty funny. Erin is in Europe. Trish is in Brazil. Becky is in Texas. Maria is all around the world. Then there is the core group who keep things running while the globetrotters are making money for the company. And then there is Gasbag. Where is he? He gets his three minutes a day when crawls out from under the rock. Pretty funny.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 12:01PM
Guest@11:22AM...
11:12? 10:23?
What do those comments have to do with the University of Delaware, or with Delaware at all?
Were you attempting to direct some lame comment toward me? If so, you failed.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 12:11PM
hasn't gasbag been accurate in his layoff predictions? why all butt hurt?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 12:40PM
Not really. He's called 500 of the last 20 decisions. Guys a fucking idiot. Someone called it a "keen observation" of the obvious and he still fucks it up. I get more info out of a broken record.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 1:20PM
Good point. Just watched Gasbag put in his 3 minutes for the day. Everything he said was bullshit to the point when his associates about laughed him off the air. Can this guy even construct a sentence without a grunt or a mispronounced word? Herb G and Dennis make a good team and they were clearly annoyed by their onairhead editor. What a sick fucking joke.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 1:38PM
Colgate? Hamilton? Buy a time machine and go to real schools boys!
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 2:00PM
yeah like St Lawrence..
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 2:02PM
Or Hobart
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 2:14PM
Man, what a dope am I. Thought we were discussing dark pools on this post????
Looks like the only one that wants to be serious is Judge Judy - well done my dear. Wanna fuck?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 2:21PM
hahaha... St. Lawrence and Hobart. My incarcerated business partner's retarded gay niece went there!
Two shares of BSC to anyone who gets the reference.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 2:27PM
Sounds like Joe Bonjourno????
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 3:11PM
hey GFD - I think I know your brother - BFD
Posted by Anal_yst , May 20, 2008 4:05PM
Wait, @ 1:20, did you just say Kneale is a good anchor?
WTF are you smoking, and more importantly, where can I get some?
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 6:05PM
Indeed. He sure beats the shit out of the Gasbag. Look past the funky glasses. He is quite smart and very entertaining.
Posted by guest , May 20, 2008 6:10PM
Let the dark pools focus on what is the darkest these banks have in common: OTC derivatives and BBB and CCC rated (or not yet rated) toxic products they own and have issued to each other.
That'll give them plenty of work.
Michael
Posted by guest , May 25, 2008 10:58PM
dark pool sounds like the next place where the super rich can get gleaned by the former derivative players, who were the former third party chinese reps, who were the former energy players, who were former dot com players, etc ...
what is the big deal its the customer's money, they can do what they want. Sounds like a slow news day where accountability tales are no where to be seen.