Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 3:44PM

@3:42- you are wrong. it was the dancing like the shareholders aren't watching that did it.

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 3:47PM

@2, 3 - It was the picture in the Morgan Stanley post that caused the market and its participants to rise...

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 3:53PM

Huzzah...we put the FUN in Fundamentals

No cash, no earnings, no chance for a profit? No problem!

This is Wallstreet's answer to The Producers--make the crappiest product possible to sustain losses and somehow, despite yourself, earn money.

"Money is a hell of a drug" (apologies to Rick James)

-C

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 4:18PM

Bess,

"Bleeding Out the Ass". Wow. That's pretty grim. You're one tough young lady.

The Guy from Delaware

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 4:22PM

@TGFD-- did you see WBs numbers, old man?

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 4:42PM

Is Bush on camera saying this nonsensical thing? You can't make it up.

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 4:46PM

#10 Goon@4:22pm...

The Old Man see WB's numbers, and they are pretty grim too. I was referring to Bess' mataphorical use of "Bleeding Out the Ass", though.

The Guy from Delaware

P.S. "Old Man" Hahaha. I like it.

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 4:47PM

http://politicalblog.abc13.com/2008/07/what-did-bush-s.html

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 4:47PM

@old man--that was unclear, b/c most ppl who've seen the numbers wouldn't say the mEtaphor was grim. if anything, it was not grim enough.

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 5:00PM

#14 Goon@4:47pm...

I think you're making way too much out of WB's numbers. They'll survive. Have no fear.

BTW, this "Old Man" is not too old to 'cut that mustard', nor is he too old to 'lick that lid'. He can do both quite well, thank you. I thought I'd "clarify", just in case you had any doubts.

The Guy from Delaware

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 5:12PM

TGFD, you're closer to that fate than you realize

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 5:44PM

WB is up b/c the street sees a chance to make a buck on the dead cat bounce that's been going on. No more, no less.

The Other Guy from Delaware

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 5:45PM

#18 @Anal_yst...

I can't say that I do much of anything specific around here. I didn't know that "doing something" was a requirement of DB. If you're baiting me somehow, may I remind you that I did say once before that I don't wish to tangle with you. You know more today about finance than I'll ever know, and I don't think I'm a match for you in that arena.

BTW, I did do something on DB today. I wrote post #102 on the Erin Burnett thread.

The Guy from Delaware

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 6:25PM

#19 TOGFD@5:44pm...

I have to disagree with you, my Delaware colleague. WB is not a "dead cat bounce" today. Nor do I think WaMu's $3B loss after hours is causing much concern either. I wouldn't look for those dead cats to fall tomorrow.

In my uninformed opinion, the equities markets are rising because of renewed optimism amomg investors. Last week's SEC action against the shorts, Sen. Levin's sucessful crushing of the UBS Swiss curtain, and a willingness by Washington to "Blame Wall St." for the current mess are all having a very positive effect.

Also, the possibility that IB/HF/PE outfits will be regulated and that IB/HF/PE clowns will be kept out of the commodities and oil markets, as well as the expansion of govt oil drilling leases are all giving investors confidence and causing some drop in commodities/oil prices.

Everybody knows that the financials are losers. That's kind of old news now. As long as the losses are close to expections, the markets won't drop. WaMu was already a dog before today. So was WB.

That's my take on today's action.

The Guy from Delaware

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 8:34PM

TGFD so what you just said is that government regulation is the reason for this bounce.

WB was far worse that what the company pre released 12 days ago. They cut their dividend for the second time and their are shutting down business lines. American Express is seeing greater delinquency in above prime loans. How is any of this postive?

Expansion of government oil drilling leases may have an impact on on actual production numbers 7-8 years from now. Of course decline given current decline rates the expected production will merely be an offset. Aside from all the enviromental issues even if these leases had been available they would not have been considered "drillable" until the last 12 monthes because that is when the became economically viable. The reality is that the down tick in oil prices is due to the down tick in the overall economic conditions annouciated by Bernanke and Paulson last week (and also due to demand destruction).

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 8:53PM

#21 TGFD@6:25 - Ok. I've heard that line of discussion. My question to you is how long do you think that optimisim will last? I'm thinking the Dow will be below 10,000 by the end of the year. To me, this past few weeks, or, perhaps months, has been really surrealistic. I can't explain to others why I have a such a great deal of angst. They do not want to hear it.

The Other Guy from Delaware. (dukin' an' cover'rn in Newark)Word!

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 8:59PM

Anal_yst, TGFD/TOGFD claims to occasionally visit Manhattan to go to one of his "clubs." He also claims to be retired, but nonetheless owns some kind of business related to home construction, and he blames Wall Street for the real estate slump. He also claims to have a DuPont living in the neighborhood, and Senator Biden living "around the corner." TGFD/TOGFD acknowledges he is 60.

But as you say, it is much much more than any of that.

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 8:59PM

WTF - Bess, will you marry me?
TOGFD

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 9:24PM

How many people on here are from DE? Wow. Beers at Catherine Rooney's?

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 9:26PM

Dill weed #24 @ 8:59. Look smuck. How many times do we have to inform you moron. I'm not TGFD. I'm TOGFD. We are two completely different people. I've never met TGFD. As far as my NYC hangin' spot - it's Spark's. Sadly, I only get there about once a year. Last, I wish I was retired....have about 7-9 years to go. I'm hoping you "masters of the universe" don't fuck it up anymore than you aready have....I was on track to go last year, you putzes!!!!

The Other Guy from Delaware

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 9:29PM

#26 - You all gotta issue with that, yuppie? Com' on down below the Mason-Dickson Line, boy....we'll have a chat.

TOGFD

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 10:30PM

It's all bullshit. I'll call it a bottom if the housing market stabilises and unsold inventory goes back to 3-4 months (it currently stands at 11 months). Chances of seeing this soon? Fuxk All!

Ever heard of autoloans, credit card debts, and personal loans? Ginnie Mae and Sallie Mae? Chris Flowers was one smart and lucky man to have walked away from that bitch Sallie. Plenty more of this junk to come I assure you.

Don't forget the government tax rebates and handouts have been mailed and most likely spent (hence the decent statistics we said in the first half of the year). There is nothing to come in the second half of the year. Things will get a whole lot worse about..........NOW!!!!

The effects of the jawboning by Paulson, Cox, and Bush will wane as we come closer to the Presidential election.

Sure, oil prices have come down a bit from the peak. But like TGFD has said, Bush's plan to let big oil companies to drill offshore won't make a difference for another 7-8 years. The main problem is the lack of refining capacity. This is the real issue.

Posted by guest , Jul 22, 2008 11:46PM

Say what you will but if this rally goes on for another week or two, many of these beaten up financial stocks would be up 400% from the bottom.