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This is not the first time in our adult life that we are proud of our country. Accordingly, we are pleased to wish you a Happy Fourth of July.
DealBreaker won't be publishing today in observance of Independence Day. We'll leave the comments section open so those of you stuck at your desks can chat. As always, the Community forums section is a great place to start new discussions. We promise not to call you anti-American.
Enjoy the three-day weekend. We'll see you on Monday.
Posted by guest, Jul 04, 2008 3:59PM
Agreed -- cheap and irrelevant. If you're going to take a political stand, at least keep it connected to Dealbreaker's subject matter and base it on reasoning/facts. With compete showing just 40k monthly visitors, I believe you can ill afford to alienate half your readership with stale political attacks.
@3:06 -- insightful comment.
Posted by lowellfield, Jul 04, 2008 4:36PM
Not the first time in your life you've made an ass out of yourself, either.
Posted by guest, Jul 04, 2008 5:03PM
What Carney said above appeared to be a fact, and a reasoned one as well.
Posted by guest, Jul 04, 2008 5:08PM
A political cheap shot on Independence Day - Of course everyone knows what she meant, but don't let that get in your way of scoring some cheap point. I gather you have never misspoken or had a comment you made taken out of context.
Posted by Investorcluzo, Jul 04, 2008 5:31PM
what's this, no mention of jesse helms (may he rest in peace)? as long as you're going to discuss racial politics, you might as well reflect on his long (and storied) career.
Posted by guest, Jul 04, 2008 5:58PM
This country would be a much better place if Helms had been President.
By the way, if Michelle Obama, or any other black doesn't like it here there is a giant wasteland called Africa which I would be more than happy to send them to. On the flip side, if you are a productive black man or woman who likes living here then I want you here, its people like you (and my ancestors) who have built and made this country great.
Posted by Tex Appeal, Jul 04, 2008 11:04PM
Are there really that many PC socialist idiots that read dealbreaker and take offense to any criticism of their cronies? Shouldnt you all be at some at a greenpeace rally or something?
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 12:14AM
5:58 umm, I'd like to take you up on yourt offer to send me back to Africa. I lost my job at Bear Stearns and a trip to Africa sounds nice. How can I get in contact with you. If it's not to much to ask, seeing as your ancestors built this country, could I also trouble you for some seed money to start my own business over there, that is unless you are willing to let me use some of your family members as free labor, maybe I could sell your children to cover my initial start up costs. I look forward to receiving those tickets, first class if you don't mind.
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 8:10AM
Hey, folks, lighten up or something. Go to a beach and think cosmic thoughts. Go to a summer movie.
The election will be with us in full force soon enough.
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 11:59AM
What will happen to Mother Merrill that is the question I want answered?
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 12:02PM
fuck mother merrill...somebody needs to put the old bitch down
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 1:10PM
Why doesnt't JKellman come out this weekend...? Independance, girl friend!
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 2:50PM
Relax everyone. The "Enron Loophole" will be closed soon enough, and then the IB's & HF's will be out of the commodities business. It will be a great day for America when the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 is undone.
It will be like a new Independence Day for America.
Posted by Jmoney, Jul 05, 2008 4:13PM
There may be hope for some of us yet - this cabbie set up a dating service.
Also, this article refers to Dorrian's as a singles bar, and I've never thought about it like that, but it does fit the bill. Now that I think of it as a singles bar, it seems cheesy. I've always just thought of it and Sutton Place, and Mad River as just good hook up spots. Time to grow up?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121521344404029485.html?mod=home_we_banner_left
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 4:48PM
@5:58...
And who exactly fucked up Africa? I'm pretty sure when the Europeans showed up there in the early 1600's the place wasn't fucked up, and the the last of the colonists just gave up power in the south african in 1994. So if after another 290 years Africa hasn't gotten its shit together, then maybe you'll have room to talk. Of course that presumes, white people to stop fucking shit up there, which are yet to do.
P.S. I'm not sure the native americans appreciate the "improvements" your ancestors built on their continent either...
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 7:46PM
Anyone know what's good tonight and dont say the meatpacking.
Posted by Investorcluzo, Jul 05, 2008 8:28PM
@7:46 - the city is DEAD! unless you want some B&T trash, best to watch the olympic trials and repair your liver. maybe good a book or movie. if you must go out, I was at bijoux on wednesday and saw john legend there (unfortunately, it's in the mpd). seems to have a discriminating door, so it may limit some of the interlopers from the outer boroughs.
Posted by Finnegan, Jul 05, 2008 10:31PM
Tex Appeal @11:04
I am the "idiot" that wrote the comment at 3:03 and I would like to clarify a bit. (And mind you, I am also a conservative who has voted Republican for every election I've been old enough to vote, so I think I am hardly a "socialist" or whatever convenient simplication you use to avoid perceptive commentary).
I think Carney's comment was clever, if annoying.
I do think blacks here in the U.S. have a much better deal than what Africans are going through now, so you better believe I know there is no greater spot on earth than the U.S. We have it all.
However, in acknowledging that fact, it does not remove the thought that blacks along the way had certain limitations imposed, so that the experiences of some blacks might different from the experiences of some whites.
It's like having three couples who all married. They all believe in marriage, but one couple has an awesome marital experience, one couple it's just okay (perhaps not enough sex), and the third couple it's very difficult. Now to the woman with the difficult marriage, you could respond "Well, go back to that previous husband (Africa) who beat you and you see how you like that."
And the answer to that is, "Yes, surely a difficult marriage is much better than an abusive one, but a good marriage, or a happy one is better than a difficult marriage."
So it's rational to assume everyone will have a slightly different perception of the United States, although we should all appreciate the country; the world is full of hell holes and on balance, the U.S. (and probably Britain) are the fathers of more good in more places than you can count.
In my case I sometimes look at my grandfather, a lifelong military man, and realize military life was possibly the best opportunity he had at the time. In the 1940's, 1950's certain things were closed off. That included certain types of insurance, living in certain locations, taking certain jobs. Even in the military, black troops faced restrictions, although my mother managed to grow up in different places (Japan/Germany) and ultimately graduate from Rutgers, and have five sisters who all attended college with one who became a doctor. Their father's influence.
So in my family, there is an institutional memory of a time not too long ago when family was not treated democratically. Thus I can understand how some people might have a different take on the nation or struggle to realize all the very awesome things here in this country.
I think Ms. Obama did not articulate her point with a clarity that could transcend it being used as a sound bite by those wanting to paint them as anti-American, but there are ways to understand what she meant if one is not trying to be deliberately ignorant or obtuse.
And at the same time, I would again say that there is no better place to be than in the U.S. and that many people of every ethnicity have suffered somewhere, and at some time.
The U.S. is often the only "home" blacks really have. There is no old country to look back to, filled with ancestors and relatives or homesteads to visit. There is no country to voluntary go back to, unlike many white emigres from Europe who came to the country in the 1920s and whose descendents like to imagine their ancestors "bootstrapped" themselves up from nothing (and again, despite having identifiable family back in the homeland they just left).
But didn't mean to cause anyone any hostility, nor do I think Carney was TRYING to be annoying. He was being like Michelle Obama, just tossing something out that got expanded into an issue.
Posted by guest, Jul 05, 2008 11:34PM
@ 828 this is the WORST ive ever seen the city. B&Ts overran it tonight.
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 12:41PM
@4:48
Who fucked up Africa? They did, and continue to do so (Darfu, Mugabe, etc.). I see to recall the Europeans coming to this continent and things turned out well here. Africa is loaded with corruption and will never amount to anything more than an economic and political wasteland. Don't blame the Europeans, blame the Mugabe's of the world.
Posted by mrpink, Jul 06, 2008 4:31PM
12:41-
You hit the head right on the nail. Robert Mugabe (and others before him/like him currently) have ruined many great things in Africa.
I speak from this because in 1997 I was part of a local church (in Illinois) that flew to Harare. We were working closely with US Aid to get donated farming equipment, setup classes on Western farming techniques, etc. I set up radio communications (or that was the original goal until we arrived in Harare and found my radio equipment damaged beyond any means of reasonable repair).
Back in 97, Zimbabwe was beautiful. If I get time after unpacking, etc. I will scan the photos and put them online. It was absolutely amazing. And then, by 2000 Mugabe had turned that place into absolute shambles. I still have letters in a box from friends I made there after I spent my month there. It's truly sad -- one could only hope that one day (i.e. Tom Joad's story in The Grapes Of Wrath) that these crackpot leaders will fade away. I have hope, albeit a small sliver of it that Africa will change and join the global bandwagon.
Ok, enough ranting, that's my reflective POV.
-mrp
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 6:46PM
Cody wrote a poigant column, http://cody.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2008/07/05/flip-this-i-am-diagnosed-with-lyme-disease-and-its-causing-bells-palsy-on-my-face
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 6:50PM
Mr. P, good luck with the unpacking and thanks for sharing the experience. The last I heard, the only ones getting through to Mugabe were the other African leaders. At the last Africa Union meeting, the leaders from Botswana had some unvarnished things to say to him that left him fuming.
Mugabe doesn't care what the British say -- in his book, they are the former colonialists. The Americans are also disdained. But his fellow African leaders seem to be a different story.
Here's to everyone in Africa who tries to make a difference, despite heavy odds. May democracy ultimately prevail.
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 7:30PM
Bush says backs strong dollar policy
Financial market losses could top 1,600 billion dollars: report
Barclays warns of a financial storm as Federal Reserve's credibility crumbles
RBS issues global stock and credit crash alert
Morgan Stanley warns of 'catastrophic event' as ECB fights Federal Reserve
What is it exactly you guys are proud of again ?
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 8:02PM
@7:30 its idiots like you that sell into the panics and create good buying oppurtonities.
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 8:54PM
@12:41:
What do you mean, things worked out well here? You mean things worked out well for the Europeans who colonized here? It sure as hell didn't work out well for the people who already lived here. And similarly, in Africa things worked out well for the Europeans who lived there, not for the indigenous people. In fact compared to the Native Americans, or the Aborigines in Australia, Africans are doing a heck of a job.
The question is how did people like Mugabe get in power in the first place? And the answer is African strongmen arose out of decolonization. Mugabe is a direct result of European conquest.
You destroy a people's wealth, intellectual capital and then expect them govern themselves after 300 years? The institutions of self governance took hundreds of thousands of years to develop. You expect people who had their entire civilizations destroyed to get recreate it in 30 years?
How long did it take europe to put its shit back together after the fall of the Roman Empire? 800 years?
Anyway, "never" is a long time my friend. I'd say Africa will be a region of median prosperity in the next 500-800 years.
(Now don't get me wrong, I am actually a bit of an imperialist myself. If Africans could have conquered Europe in 1600 they would have. [in fact some African guy named hamilkar barka did invade europe once upon a time, and later his son gave it a shot too]
So whatever, the Europeans had the technological edge and they exploited it, good for them. But don't piss on my back and tell me its raining. Mugabe may be responsible for ruining Zimbabwe but Europeans(Rhodesians) are responsible for Mugabe. .... Seriously, read a book. )
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 9:13PM
Hahaha, bunch of pussies getting your panties in a bunch about the failure of the dark continent. Africa is descending into tribalism and of course it's the white man's fault. After colonialism ended Africans were handed the keys to functioning nation-states. With the arguable exception of Botswana they managed to fuck it up every time.
Look at what has happened to South Africa since 1994. With their "land reform" programs SA is going to be the next Zimbabwe. Even a lot of blacks there say they were better off under apartheid (search youtube).
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 9:48PM
9:13
I agree SA is going the way of Zimbabwe. Mbeki and his cohorts are so bent on land-redistribution that that country might even go to hell during the world cup.
Posted by guest, Jul 06, 2008 11:43PM
DB has better journalism than Fox News. For you guys to link a FN story is pathetic. They called the “fist bump” a fuckin “terrorist fist jab” for crying out loud. And she did it with a serious face.
I just turned on Fox News. The breaking news was that "Barack Obama went to bed late tonight" and how it will hurt him in the general election. Big fuckin deal. Fox News has a fetish w/ Barack and Michelle. May date way back to the slave days when masters had their twisted versions of penis envy and hung hung black guys (auch).
I am a repub, but I can't vote for a guy who "admits [he] doesn't know much about the economy," is crazy, ineloquent and insecure enough to scream obscenities at other elected officials who have different views, and thinks the way to continued American supremacy is to continue to diminish the capabilities of our military by fighting nonsense wars overseas (AKA John McSame).
Sincerely,
Tanned Banker
Posted by guest, Jul 07, 2008 12:04AM
@9:13:
What good are the keys when no one in the country knows how to drive? If you hand the keys to your Porsche over to your 14 year old son, who's never driven a day in his life, what do you expect him to do with it?
If you did that you would be liable, not him. And if you kept your son tied up in the basement until he was 30, the fact he didn't know how to drive would still be your fault.
The reason South Africa can't govern itself is because the majority of the population was intentionally kept poor and ignorant. Then its their fault cause they don't know how to run the country? No I think its the fault of the people who made it illegal for them to learn anything.
I don't advocate "blaming the white man" for things. But understanding the cause of something, is the easiest way to find a solution. And in Africa, most shit is fucked up due to colonialism or due to something that was in turn caused by colonialism.
Next, you'll be saying the Indians put themselves onto the fucking reservations.
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Posted by guest, Jul 04, 2008 3:03PM
This is not the first time either, that Carney is not the descendent of slaves or has grandparents who had to lead segregated lives.
So a bit easier to be proud mayhaps? But nice to use a national holiday to make cheap political point.