UBS has promised to stop helping its US customers get out of paying taxes but Senator Carl Levin (no relation) says that's not good enough--he wants their Nazi-sympathizing asses shut down. Clearly it's never going to happen though of course it would be more than a little hilarious if it did. Crazy Carl told ABC news today that he thinks Federal regulators should revoke UBS's banking license because "...no bank that goes to the extent that UBS has gone through to avoid doing what their agreements with the United States require them to do, should be allowed to continue to do business unless they clean up their act."
Though Levin said he was deeply disturbed by a list of "secrecy tricks" UBS bankers used to carry out their scams, including fake charitable trusts, disguised business trips, foreign credit cards and code names for clients (including Adolf's Stache and The Senator From Michigan), he did give credit where credit was due, noting that he was very impressed by banker Bradley Brikenfeld's out of the box thinking when it came to smuggling diamonds into the US for a client, by hiding them in an empty tooth paste container.
Sen. Levin: Shut Down Giant Swiss Bank UBS [ABC News]
Posted by I am a Dude , Jul 17, 2008 3:18PM
Hell, if Schumer can bring down Indymac, Levin (no relation) can up him one by trying for UBS.
Not that i think he can do it.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:19PM
UBS = TTT
Posted by AJ , Jul 17, 2008 3:20PM
Did Carl Levin just declare war on Switzerland?
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:20PM
It imposes no restrictions on the Secretary of the Treasury and says that he will determine the terms and conditions of the transactions as well as the amounts. The draft language contains an analytical section (brief) which specifically states that the authorizations of the section extend to purchases of equity.The draft authorizes sales of Treasury debt to fund the purchases. It goes one step farther and excludes those sales from the debt ceiling.
http://acrossthecurve.com/?p=1156
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:20PM
The opinions of some of our senators really scare me.
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Jul 17, 2008 3:25PM
A Levin is a Levin. There's no "ifs," "ands," or "buts."
Posted by lemmerdeur , Jul 17, 2008 3:27PM
Well, if they revoked Daiwa Bank's license back in 1996 for hiding the truth about a rogue trader who cost the bank a piddling $1.1 billion, they remove the testicles of every senior UBS employee for costing the government an estimated $100 billion every year.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:35PM
Did you just write Nazi-sympathizing asses?
Posted by Anal_yst , Jul 17, 2008 3:47PM
Where the hell did they get $100bn/year in lost revenue, anyone know? Assuming these rich people are actually paying any taxes in the 1st place, they'd have to have a few hundred billion just with UBS in offshore accounts. Somehow I'd imagine the figure is no more than 1/2 of that, tops, but thats just back of the envelope "math"
Posted by Bess Levin , Jul 17, 2008 3:47PM
@3:35-- No.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:49PM
@3:35: In January 1997, Christoph Meili, a night watchman at the Union Bank of Switzerland (as UBS was then known), found the bank historian destroying archives compiled by a subsidiary that had extensive dealings with Nazi Germany, in direct violation of a recent Swiss law (adopted on December 13, 1996) protecting such material. UBS acknowledged that it had "made a deplorable mistake", but maintained that the destroyed archives were unrelated to the Holocaust. Meili was suspended from his job at the security company that served UBS, following a criminal investigation into whether his whistleblowing had violated bank secrecy laws.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBS_AG
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:50PM
@3:47 post --
i love you, Bess Levin (no relation to Carl)
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:53PM
Bess - Moooooooooooo
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:55PM
Credit Suisse or UBS: who are bigger nazi sympathizers?
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:56PM
nancy pelosi wants to shut down morgan stanley
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:57PM
You would also have to shut down all the accounting firms that have tax advisory services. WTF do you think they do all day? That's right, they make sure that only poor people pay taxes.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:57PM
"Credit Suisse or UBS: who are bigger nazi sympathizers?"
UBS
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 3:59PM
"Credit Suisse or UBS: who are bigger nazi sympathizers?"
credit suisse
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:00PM
"Bank Historian" - WTF is a bank historian?
I am guessing in the case of UBS, he might have been a ex-gestpo dude (circa 1945) looking to escape prosecution.
But say for other banks? Are there whole "bank history" divisions (or where there, prior to the recent melt downs).
Posted by DrederickTatum , Jul 17, 2008 4:02PM
Since I'm probably the only regular Dealbreaker reader with any knowledge on the civil procedure and fraudulent conveyance law in Liechtenstein, I'll proffer the following:
The U.S. has virtually no local legal remedy to recover lost tax revenue in Liechtenstein. As a practical matter, the U.S. Attorney General can sue in local courts to freeze trust assets in Liechtenstein. But success in Liechtenstein is uncertain, costly and comes with large legal hurdles.
First, the U.S. would have to place 10-15% of the total judgment amount in escrow to cover potential legal fees of defendants. If the U.S. lost, it would lose that money. That could be billions of dollars.
Second, the statute of limitations for setting aside a fraudulent transfer to avoid taxes in Liechtenstein is a draconian 1 year. So the U.S. can only seek back taxes going back one year. So the potential gain is very small considering the cost and risk. (Admittedly, the limitations period can be changed by court order to 5 years if the U.S. shows an intent to deceive... but local courts may be averse holding in this manner).
U.S. Courts can hold Liechtenstein account holders and trustee's in contempt in America. Basically a court can hold trustees/owners in jail unless they agree to turn over funds. Thats pretty much the only thing the U.S. can do short of invading another country.
As for the options against UBS - The US can nail UBS if it really wants to. My prediction - Someone at UBS will be made a sacrificial lamb and some substantial penalty will be paid.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:04PM
ubs had secret bank accounts for nazis, which is where the nazi sympathizers reference comes from.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:07PM
"out of the box thinking"? No way. Watching old movies, instead.
In "Ladro lui, ladra lei", Italy, 1958(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051838/) a gang of small time thieves robs a jewelry store by dressing up as carabinieri (police officers) and they hide the stolen diamonds, rubies, etc. inside toothpaste containers.
In the end, however, the neighborhood cop finds out, and arrests them all.
"How did you guess?" the gang leader (Alberto Sordi) asks. "Well -goes the cop- I just noticed that all you guys had unusually white teeth".
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:08PM
ubs also had secrect bank accounts for jewish sympathizers - they play all sides.
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Jul 17, 2008 4:14PM
A bank historian es la records clerk, I'd imagine. Color me stupid, but this is my guess.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:17PM
i heard they have more of the ladder than the former, the former of course representing the bulk of tax evaders.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:17PM
i heard they have more of the ladder than the former, the ladder of course representing the bulk of tax evaders.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:23PM
I thought a ladder was something you stood on. I didn't think it represented tax evaders.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:26PM
Ladder? WTF?
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:28PM
The Swiss play NO sides. That is the point. Why should your banker care if you're Jewish, or if you're a mass murder with lampshades made out of your victims, OR worse, a US tax evader - frankly, I have a hard time figuring out why that ever became a banker's job.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:32PM
Keep on laughing everyone. The 19,000 US citizens who are in the Govt's crosshairs are a very small number. Watch how many of them turn on UBS to try to save their own asses and to salvage a portion of their money.
I imagine a good number of those 19,000 are Wall St playuhs, ballers & rainmakers.
This is still the first inning. We've got the rest of the summer and part of the fall to go.
Sen Levin is powerful; so is the SEC and Congress. Wall St has gone too far, and now the public wants blood. Some of you will soon be living off your last bonuses.
DiedrickTatum@4:02pm...
Thank you for the expert opinion; however, I think this time the US govt has more than a "sacrificial lamb & substantial penalty" in mind. Also the US has the ability to "lean" on Liechtenstein via means other than the rigorous legal system.
BTW, another up day in the markets today. I think the SEC and Congress are onto something
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by Anal_yst , Jul 17, 2008 4:34PM
I'd guess every bank has a "historian", the slightly less than handful of ones I've worked for all seem to have very official corporate history videos resembling some cross between an infomercial and a late-night history channel show
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:39PM
TGFD - are you a Bengali?
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:41PM
ladder = latter spelt by exBearStearns trader
Posted by I am a Dude , Jul 17, 2008 4:43PM
i think he had his tv tuned to reruns of "rescue me"
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 4:45PM
United States (IRS) vs. Taxpayers.
All citizens of the United States are required to report and pay taxes on WORLWIDE INCOME, one of the few countries that do this. The laws of Liechtenstein, Switzerland, et. al. are irrelevant to the supremacy of US law where US citizens are concerned. As far as what the US can do to lean of the countries harboring either the funds or the individuals, the sky is the limit. Revocation of banking licenses, freezing of assets, criminal indictments, revocation of visas, etc. If the US government wants to fuck with you, your are fucked. Places to go for a long vacation and wait it out: Cuba, N. Korea, Iran.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:51PM
MICHAEL LEWIS IS ONTO SOMETHING...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNvAqh8kvSkI&refer=home
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:52PM
MICHAEL LEWIS IS ONTO SOMETHING...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNvAqh8kvSkI&refer=home
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 4:58PM
Guest@4:39pm...
Good question. I presume you saw my other posts about those "Bengali" goons.
No, I'm a white American actually. Look somewhat like the iconic "All-American Boy". That's why those "chicks of all ages" have a thing for me.
beentheredonethat@4:45pm...
Very well articulated post. Much better than I could do. Your message is spot-on.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:02PM
Bess, I love you, as well.
I want you to wear the Becky Boots, and nothing else. Then sit in my lap and read me the Wall Street Journal, while I drink a MHL.
In a world gone soft, someone's got to be hard.
-BeckyBoodFan
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:03PM
Bess, I love you, as well.
I want you to wear the Becky Boots, and nothing else. Then sit in my lap and read me the Wall Street Journal, while I drink a MHL.
In a world gone soft, someone's got to be hard.
-BeckyBootFan
Posted by Anal_yst , Jul 17, 2008 5:11PM
@ TGFD (4:32)
Yet again, you, like your ignorant sheep brethren in congress make the folly of using "up" as synonymous with "good". Let me explain your folly.
Today, MER was up 9%. After hours they released nightmarish results at the extremes of estimated ranges. Yea, up = good. I bet those same logic and reasoning skills are what got you into that sweet club they call Mensa
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:13PM
TGFD-- SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:13PM
TGFD-- SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:13PM
TGFD-- SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:14PM
TGFD-- SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:18PM
Hitler? Who said anything about Hitler?
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:20PM
TGFD= Hitler
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:21PM
that's an insult to hitler
Posted by DrederickTatum , Jul 17, 2008 5:25PM
@Guy from Delaware and Beentheredoen that - Maybe... but Liechtenstein doesn't really care as much about being "leaned on." That why most desirable tax havens have very little reliance on the US (Cook islands, Channel Islands, Nevis, Caymans, etc.) They are all small countries with minuscule import/export relationships with the US.
If I were the U.S., the way to deter this type of thing is to smack around UBS. But with all the global liquidity problems, the US simply can't "crucify" or "destroy" UBS right now.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:25PM
Supplement...
beenthere/d/t's post reminded me of something:
You know those two little boxes down at the bottom of IRS 1040 "Schedule B"? Well, if you're one of those 19,000, and you checked "No" when you should have checked "Yes", I can't imagine there's a hole that's obscure enough to hide you from the wrath of the US govt.
I definitely wouldn't want to trade places with you; your "Baller" status notwithstanding.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 5:33PM
@5:25
Be serious. Does the US need UBS more than UBS needs the US? If you even have to think about that you are lost. The US can bitchslap UBS as long and hard as it cares to and pay no price. As to the havens, with a concerted effort, we can make it too expensive for them to remain in business. Not to mention forbidding US citizens from doing business there, which would pass Congress in an hour. It used to be that no man was an island, but in the current shape of things, no island is an island anymore. From the people who brought you the War on Terror.
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 5:37PM
@5:25
Amen, brother. Checking the wrong box is just one more felony. But by the time you get to schedule B, they've already got you on 4 or 5, so what's one more?
Posted by Anal_yst , Jul 17, 2008 5:40PM
@ TGFD/BTDT
Or, we could just lower taxes in this country so anyone with a respectable bank account didn't up and run to the closest haven.
Problem->solution. Duh.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 5:40PM
"If I were the U.S., the way to deter this type of thing is to smack around UBS. But with all the global liquidity problems, the US simply can't "crucify" or "destroy" UBS right now."
why not? they're already halfway dead in the US. you might as well burn them at the stake and make a show of it.
they're not american, their private wealth services are getting fucked by the IRS and the rest of the US operations are shit. If legislators want to make a scene, this is the company to do it to.
Posted by michange , Jul 17, 2008 5:43PM
Adolf's Stache
The Senator From Michigan
Anna_Lust
Dimons are Forever
Elie Kopterben
Israel Egret
Posted by michange , Jul 17, 2008 5:51PM
Adolf's Stache
The Senator From Michigan
Dimons are Forever
Georges Sorrows
Idiot Spitters
March Mallows
Warrant Beefsteack
Anna_Lust
Back to Delaware
Egret Bayou
Posted by DrederickTatum , Jul 17, 2008 5:59PM
@5:33 How does forbidding U.S. citizens from doing business there stop tax evasion? This people are already willing to break U.S. tax law? Do you think they'll care about breaking some other law? Liechtenstein is not a tourist center for U.S. citizens. Moreover, places like Liechtenstein prefer to keep American businesses out of its market.
Secondly, whether you want to believe it or not, the US does need UBS. UBS has a larger market cap than Merrill Lynch and Lehman brothers combined. UBS manages retirement assets for tens of millions of Americans. If UBS failed now, it would be a much more devastating collapse than Bear Stearns.
(as an aside, UBS has probably been the most truthful, forthcoming i-bank in terms of CDO disclosure and write-offs.)
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 6:08PM
@Anal_yst
We cannot possibly compete on a tax rate basis with countries, principalities, islands, etc., that have no overhead, and therefore no need for income taxes. They can run these fly by night places with very modest fees and a VAT. When you've got 5 times zones, 300 million people, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, welfare lifers and a few hundred national parks, its gonna cost you.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 6:19PM
TGFD=welfare lifer
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 6:44PM
Lifer@6:19pm...
"TGFD=welfare lifer"
Hahaha. I like it.
Sen. Biden said he'd get me some of that govt cheese. He keeps a stash of it at his house, and he's invited us over for dinner.
beentheredonethat@6:08pm...
Now look what you did. These goons are pretty smart. They pick up on everything. "Welfare Lifer"...Great line.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 6:51PM
@6:44
Not to mention obese fat fuckers (I know, redundant), requesting new hips and knees courtesy of medicare. Which I have the privilege of paying for while I keep myself in shape....
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 7:34PM
DiedrickTatum@5:59...
With all due consideration of your exceptional knowledge of Liechtenstein, I'm compelled to suggest that you may not understand America as well as you could.
If the USGovt/IRS/Treasury gets seriously focused on someone's case, that damn entity/person will go thru an absolute hell that is unimaginable in its scope. These are serious times. Wall St has fucked up for too long. The Public wants blood, and it's an election year. The sovereignty of small island piss holes will be of little concern in the coming shit storm. Liectenstein? I wouldn't count on them standing too tall either. BeenThereDT said it more eloquently than I.
Anal_yst@5:11pm...
I don't consider myself skilled/educated/talented enough to tangle with you; however, with due consideration of your prowess, may I say that I think you might be mistaken on this "Up" market business. MER and JPM held up quite well in after-hours trading. MER lost only 70% of today's gain, and JPM lost just 17% of theirs.
Furthermore, although I'm no expert on the markets, I believe that people (investors & non-investors alike) now feel some sense of hope. Yesterday's SEC action was a 'watershed' event. Today's raid on Wachovia, the blasting of UBS, the tough talk from Congress all add up to a general feeling by the public that, "The Govt finally got off its dead ass and did something about Wall St. We've been complaining about those fucks for months."
I believe that you are too close to the problem and that you may very well be part of it. You may be unable to "see" the picture the way I can. I will never be as smart about finance as you are today, but I think you might not be fully aware of what's going on outside Manhattan.
Regards,
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 7:40PM
every single one of the foreign banks who jumped in here after 1999 has gotten their heads handed to them. lol
the usa is awesome.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 7:41PM
draconian hedge fund regulation is on the way.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 7:44PM
i'd bet my left nut carl levin has % invested in hedge funds through blind trusts which are far from blind.
wait until the democrats take full control of everything in january.
the odd part to me is that so many wall street peoples are openly democrat.
self loathing?
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 7:55PM
Oh jesus christ --- quit fucking witchhunting UBS. I am a banker here, and I didn't do shit to the jews, I am just profit-hungry like YOU!
You are not going to get a free-lunch from us by whining and complaining and trying to use the United States government to bleed cash out of us.
Why don't you whiners send us some capital and we'll make you a boatload of money just like anyone else---consider it your "justice" or "reparations".
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 8:16PM
bring back painewebber!
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 8:34PM
@ 7:55
don't worry, your shareholders have plenty of sausage for you. mmm swiss creepy man sausage:
http://www.daylife.com/photo/048x5TYbE27mH
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 8:49PM
"The Swiss play NO sides. That is the point. Why should your banker care if you're Jewish, or if you're a mass murder with lampshades made out of your victims, OR worse, a US tax evader - frankly, I have a hard time figuring out why that ever became a banker's job."
when did it become a banker's job to smuggle diamonds in his toothpaste? when he went to work for UBS
there's a reason UBS is the only one getting busted.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 9:05PM
i still can't for the life of me figure out why so many "wall streeters" are closet socialist democrats.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 9:06PM
Must be a Jewish thing.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 9:14PM
I am 100% convinced that Goldman is run by the devil himself.
that fucking place bought spear leeds and kellog when prime brokerage was the bottom of the barrel of wall street.
sort of like tiffanys purchasing some electronics on canal street.
talk about a clash of culture.
and now they've made bazillions on it.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 9:15PM
I am 100% convinced that Goldman is run by the devil himself.
that fucking place bought spear leeds and kellog when prime brokerage was the bottom of the barrel of wall street.
sort of like tiffanys purchasing some electronics store on canal street.
talk about a clash of culture.
and now they've made bazillions on it.
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 9:45PM
@7:34
Respeck. Even drawing "Suicide is Painless" on your car hood and then prentending to jump from the Bear Mountain Bridge is pointless. All that Israel guy did was add 10 more years to a twenty year sentence. You can run but you cannot hide when Uncle Sam is on your ass. Alot of people among those 19,000 reached a level of affluence where they believe no government can touch them. Well, they are about to learn the glory of turning boulders into pebbles.
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Jul 17, 2008 9:47PM
GS is quiet, humble, and sound in judegement. There's a tremendous difference between working for the firm and working for your own buck. Fucking figure it out and save your job.
Posted by guest , Jul 17, 2008 10:23PM
@9:15PM
But Goldman's purchase of SLK didn't work out for a few years and there were question marks over the price it paid for it(around $6 billion if my memory serves me correctly).
At that time, people were asking why buy a dealer when the trend was moving towards electronic trading?
Goldman put a lot of resources into it to revamp and retool SLK to make it work. I think it helps them to get the feel for where the market is heading. Just like owning a number of large power plants helped their traders make a killing in trading electricity.
I wouldn't say Goldman is run by devil himself. But they are damn good!
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 10:25PM
@8:49
A careful look at the financing of WWII will reveal that the Swiss were most unhelpful to the Allied cause, and were more than willing accomplices as not just Germany's, but Hitler's financiers. Any other position would have guaranteed an invasion and their crushing beneath the heal of the Reich. They were slightly outperformed in their obedience by the Austrians. Now there's a collection of assholes if there ever was one. Remember Kurt Waldheim?
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 10:40PM
To the doubters, from the Times of London, succinctly:
"UBS caved in to mounting pressure from the US Government yesterday and announced plans to close the Swiss bank accounts of all its American customers and prepared to lift the veil of secrecy that has protected its clients for centuries. "
The floor is open for questions.....
I think UBS lost baaaaaad.....
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 10:40PM
To the doubters, from the Times of London, succinctly:
"UBS caved in to mounting pressure from the US Government yesterday and announced plans to close the Swiss bank accounts of all its American customers and prepared to lift the veil of secrecy that has protected its clients for centuries. "
The floor is open for questions.....
I think UBS lost baaaaaad.....
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 17, 2008 10:41PM
To the doubters, from the Times of London, succinctly:
"UBS caved in to mounting pressure from the US Government yesterday and announced plans to close the Swiss bank accounts of all its American customers and prepared to lift the veil of secrecy that has protected its clients for centuries. "
The floor is open for questions.....
I think UBS lost baaaaaad.....
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 12:35AM
beentheredonethat@All(3)Posts...
Easy on the trigger there friend. Twice was plenty, but I can certainly appreciate your eagerness in getting out your very timely message to the doubters for a 3rd time.
I just came back online and saw your "succinct", spot-on message(s). Not really a question, but here goes...
Uncle Sam is preparing an entire legion of agents/examiners/law-enforcement goons who are now 'powering-up' for the assult on the 19,000. Their mission in life will be to wreak as much carnage on the lives of the 19,000 and their complicit families as is humanly possible. None will be spared as the agents advance with glee. The 19k will turn, one on the other. UBS will turn on the 19k, and the 19k on UBS. Hell, I might even volunteer some extra tax $$ if I knew for sure that it would be used directly for such a noble cause.
Now, here's my question(s): Wouldn't it be 'cosmic' to learn that the famous Blackstone 5 "Masters of the Universe" are up near the top of that 19k list? Wouldn't it also be 'galactic' to see the famous 5 lined up, bent over a rail with their $2k trousers down around their ankles, and with their sorry asses gaped wide open? Having Uncle Sam's 'hunters' posing proudly alongside for the photo Op would be absolutely 'stellar', don't you think?
Aahhh! "Schadenfreude" at its very best.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 12:41AM
the "19,000" have little to fear except for possibly having to pay some taxes in the future.
there's an old regulators saying - "there's a thousand ways to hide money and million ways to find out how you hid the money"
true
looks like what will happen here is congress will shake down UBS for a few billion if they want to keep their u.s. banking license.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 12:52AM
IamaDude@3:18PM,07/17...
Yours was the first post on this thread: "Not that I think he (Sen Levin) can do it."
Looks like UBS really stood up to Uncle Sam (Sen Levin), didn't they? How long did they last? 5 hours? Hahaha.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 12:54AM
the u.s.a looks like it's ready to flex it's financial muscles. finally.
i really believe a lot of smart people forget we're 25% of the worlds economy...lol
the chinese are sitting there with their mouths opening wondering how we could evaporate a trillion dollars of their money which they made selling us fireworks and fake louis vuitton bags.
pleaure doing business with you. step in line.
the down vote on irish e.u. referendum and the imploding spanish economy which was "built" entirely on land speculation is the beginning of the end of the eurozone.
uh-oh spain and italy - no more currency devaluing.
unless france and germany are willing to italy and spain into welfare states.
weeeeeeeeeee~~~~!!11
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 12:57AM
"true"@12:41am...
You sound like someone who is in a state of denial. Keep on whistling in the dark if that gives you comfort.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 1:20AM
TGFD@12:35AM
Five masters of the universe bent over the rails with their pants down.
Images of Abu Ghraib flashed across my mind.
Hehehehehehehehehe
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 2:16AM
I'm confused.
According to everything I've read, the IRS can "confiscate" 50% of any money they find in excess of 10,000.
do they just send you a bill and attack (attach) your domestic assets?
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 3:33AM
looks like they're serious:
"Also on the list is Martin Liechti, a senior UBS private-banking official, who has been detained by U.S. authorities on a material-witness warrant. That requires him to remain in the U.S. to possibly aid in the government's criminal investigation"
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 9:24AM
Guest@3:33am...
Where can we see a copy of that 19,000 list?
Also, I think that my @12:35am post should be called my 'Big Bang Theory' on the "Masters of the Universe". Do you agree?
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 10:33AM
UBS employees were told the news would get worse before it got better. Maybe bankers knew weeks ago they'd "exit entirely" the business of Swiss numbered accounts for US tax cheats.
Surely this self flagellation is offered to appease regulators and avoid the penalty they deserve: losing their license. (Sounds like druggies going voluntarily to rehab before trial so the judge goes easy on them.)
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 11:09AM
The IRS has 19,000 very wealthy people cheating on their taxes, with lots of supporting evidence. The IRS has a range of tools to get back taxes, from being polite and sending a notice, hoping you'll send a check (that clears) to kicking in your door and taking you to jail, then taking your money. I bet some of the 19,000 will go to jail.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 11:11AM
the voluntary shut down is pretty much an admission of guilt.
silly UBS, why did you confess before securing the plea bargain? now you're really in trouble
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 1:37PM
As to who might be among the 19,000, it it possible we might soon spill our coffee reading some marquee names, but it seems to me the real big kahunas, whether Blackstone boys, or the billionaire boys club from the hedge funds would be perfectly capable of doing these things on their own without resorting to a 3rd party, and then paying them for their trouble. Lots of places to hide a stash of uncut stones in a G-5, basically. As to going to jail, Leona Helmsley did a couple of years in the Federal pen for not paying 2 million in taxes. She paid $198 million out of a total owed of $200 million, but acted like the bitch she was when the IRS came a knockin. She. like Martha Stewart, could have completely avoided jail with a slightly different attitude. Its completely up to the Feds whether they play nice or nail your ass to the wall.
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 1:44PM
@11:11
Actually, UBS is in better shape than any of their cohorts who were involved in similar schemes. By being the first to capitulate, and saving the Feds time and money, by pointing out the who's, where, when, etc., US Attorneys tend to be grateful for that sort of info, making their job considerably less complex going forward. While they might not have inked a deal with prosecutors at this point, although they may have, the sentencing memo will be kinder to them than anyone who is still resisting the investigation. And you can bet its broader than has been announced. This is how political careers get started. Ask Rudy.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 2:23PM
this is still blowing my mind.
UBS has aleady turned over the names of all involved the US federal government.
the penalty is 50%. not negotiable.
i wonder if these people realize how fucked they are?
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 2:27PM
maybe that was the bargain: 19,000 names to keep your banking license...
whatever that is worth after you rat out 19,000 customers
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 2:33PM
50% of what? I assure you the penalty for tax evasion is not fixed in stone. If it is an American citizen, they can end up paying treble damages on the amount they failed to pay, interest on that sum, additional penalties, as well as applicable jail time. The IRS can bring both civil and criminal charges, same as SEC, but its clear here they are going after criminal charges. Everything with the IRS is negotiable if they want it to be. No other agency of the goverment operates like the IRS. They are the only ones who can seize your assets without a warrant or court order, for instance.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 2:37PM
heylistenbeentheredonethat,
i'm only going off what i've read, which made very clear that moving more than 10,000 bucks out of the us without notifying the US is subject to having 50% of the money confiscated.
i'm certainly no expert here nor claim to be.
it even sounds like it's more of a customs issue than IRS issue, once the $ leaves.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 2:39PM
try shoving 20k down your shorts and then telling the customs guy at the airport about it and see what happens.
it's not an IRS issue.
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 2:49PM
Point taken, but its apples and oranges. Yes, the 10G rule exists for a number of reasons. But you can be sure if you get busted on that, the IRS is duly informed and they start a separate investigation. Tax evasion is a whole different kettle of fish, as the money in question, especially in this case, probably was earned outside the United States, and therefore not illegally transported, but you would be busted on a failure to declare the income. And while you may be guilty of one or the other, it is also possible you are guilty of both, which means a much longer list of charges. Being guilty of one doesn't mean you are not guily of both. Origin of the cash (actually any assets) would be key.
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 2:53PM
Also, as you know, any movement of 10G anywhere is reportabe to the government, and must be, by law. If you were to engage in a series of transfers at say, $7,500, for the sole purpose of not triggering the 10G reporting requirement, you have committed a felony with each and every transfer.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 2:55PM
hi beentheredonethat,
i don't want to argue with you, mostly because i like your comments, and a little less so because i have pretty much no idea what i'm talking about,
but,
5 of these UBS "customers" were called to testify yesterday and they were all regular rich americans living in places like flushing, ny.
sounds to me like this $ was made here and UBS told them how to get it out of here.
regardless, i'd say they were fucked.
UBS through them right under the bus. lol
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 2:59PM
my guess is that a lot these folks were owners of cash businesses who werre receiving advice for a fee from UBS on how to set-up Swiss bank accounts, without having to go to Switzerland.
oooooooof.
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 3:04PM
All possible. If that is the case, they could be looking at charges that include illegal transfer of cash abroad, money laundering, tax evasion, perjury (signing the bogus tax returns), etc. Again, being busted on one doesn't preclude you from being busted on the others. They don't cancel each other out, they just get added to the indictment. So instead of being indicted on two counts, you face a ten count indictment. Each with their own penalty. That's all I'm saying. I don't think we disagree here.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 3:17PM
UBS would not have rolled over like a like a little doggy so quickly if they really didn't fuck up so bad here.
it sounds like they were probably soliciting certain retail customers (private client services at ubs, right?), to set-up numbered swiss bank accounts for a fee.
lol
and i'm sure they were able to get some weasel-y lawyers to sign off on it.
that's some ballsy shit.
the media loves showing video of wall street guys in handcuffs.
and wall street guys throw up on their shoes when they see it.
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 3:24PM
A little technical, but there is nothing illegal about a US citizen having a numbered bank account in Switzerland or anywhere else. You just have to report it. If you don't, that's the first crime. And whatever when on after that, is just a list of charges to be indicted on.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 3:30PM
i think the point here is that UBS wasn't notifying anyone.
and probably hid a disclaimer on page 57 of the 143 page agmt. that the customer needed to notify. and of course nobody, and by nobody i mean the stockbroker, tells the client.
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 3:50PM
Most definitley customers responsibility to report the existence of the account. And every one of them knew it, otherwise no need for secrecy. UBS is in trouble if they purposely concealed asset transfers to the government. Which maybe not in so many words, but they have already copped to that. UBS is responsible for reporting under the 10G rule. That's were the illegal transfers and money laundering would come in. Customer obiviously on the hook for his tax return. The wives have an out under the injured spouse clause of the IRS code. Wives can claim they didn't know what hubby was up to. Works quite often.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 4:07PM
This reminds me of when I used to sit on my bed spread eagle and naked and try to get a glimpse of my asshole with my mother's compact.
The Guy From Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 4:29PM
beentheredonethat...
Your insight has been essential to our understanding of what the magnitude of this UBS thing might be. Thank you for your work so far.
Sounds to me like guest@2:37pm might have a little 'undocumented' coin stashed offshore.
@2:37's previous questions seem a bit too curious.
Anyway, I think the 19,000 (which I hope includes the Blackstone 5) have no understanding at all of what real power is. The "Masters of the Universe" think they wield it; I guess we'll all find out who really does.
Just remember, Govt agents are people too. They've been paying attention to the shit taking place on Wall St. How do you think they feel about all the high rollers with the $5k shoes who sneer at the "little people"?
BTW, a number of you posters seemed to imply that UBS somehow subversively 'induced' the 19,000 into stashing that cash offshore without the knowlegde of the 19,000.
Come on. I know very few people with significant wealth who don't know WTF that money is doing as well as where it is. I guess that no more than a handful of the 19k are in a fog. The rest are hoping they can fuck somebody over in order to stay out of the can and to save a bit of their own cash.
Count on an expansion of the 19k to include investment advisors, bankers, lawyers, accountants, HF/PE outfits(hopefully), and sundry other goons who enabled the 19k to get noticed by Uncle Sam. Also, UBS might be the biggest offending bank, but others might emerge during the investigation.
Also, I posted some time back that this "Blame Wall St thing has legs", and all I got from the DB crowd was a bunch of guffaws and a string of insulting comments. I still say that it has legs.
beentheredonethat seems to have a really good grasp of the situation.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 4:41PM
Post#109 @4:07pm...
I have to think that anyone who wants to masquerade as another poster by using that poster's moniker would at least try to be creative and stay consistent with the the 'real thing'.
You're an adolescent fucking idiot. Definitely a loser. Get your own material.
Next time I see your 'work', I'll refer to you as "ShitStain". I think it suits you.
Somebody answer this question please. Does this 'masquerading' happen frequently on DB?
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 5:09PM
#109@4:07 = TGFD Wannabee
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 5:09PM
First State Guy
Agreed. Maybe re-login in as TGFD so we can tell who's who, as I appreciate your comments and loathe the other guy's...
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 18, 2008 5:17PM
If it comes down to a pissing match between a bunch of wealthy guys who catch an arrogant attitude with government investigators/lawyers making 125k a year, how do you think they are going to react? With the full weight of their official powers which are not only considerable (easily making up for the money difference on the two sides, but are used at their discretion (go easy or hit them really fucking hard). So the rich guys go out and hire a team of high-powered attorneys, most likely former federal prosecutors, which will cost them millions in legal fees, all the while the government is in possession of the smoking gun(s)because UBS rolled over. By the time these guys figure out their money is not gonna work this time, they are looking at the maximum penalties because the government has long since tired of their bullshit. Time and time again we've seen this.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 8:31PM
Hey, be a bit considerate. Some of us here work for UBS you know :-(
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 10:00PM
@8:31PM
I wonder what you say to your clients now that your superiors in Chocolateland has ratted them out?
UBS - Because without U, it's all BS.
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 10:12PM
Hey, 8:31, how do you feel about working for a bank that demands employees take a basic course on money laundering when they were the masters of advanced techniques in moving capital around the world undetected?
Posted by guest , Jul 18, 2008 11:22PM
Hans Gruber worked for UBS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llS-Ceq63Wc
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 1:10AM
I was intrigue by the post on SLK. I have worked with people who were originally from SLK. These guys definitely operate as a culture within a culture, although the aspect of monetization involved a few factors you might not realize at first glance:
1) The importance of doing excellent work is something that every ex-SLK person that I met seemed to understand. GS appreciates this, and work for the firm and its reputation is an ideal that jives well with this.
2) Sometimes, decisions are made for long-term benefit to the firm. The interesting thing is, if you make enough long-term focused decisions, they pay dividends every quarter. I think I heard the $6B price, and the founders made some serious coin from the sale, but I tend to think Goldman did not overpay for it, as I've discovered they generally don't like to overpay for things.
3) Why buy a dealer? Relationships make or break a system and its reputation, and they are much easier broken than made. This explains why there is one man who has worked for Goldman Sachs for 75 years! He has relationships and a network unlike few others, no doubt!
http://news.hereisthecity.com/news/business_news/7888.cntns
4) Dirty little secret. Your software developers are gold! Be selective, treat them well and keep them at your firm and you will be happy with the results! A cyborg (with trading knowledge/experience as well as a technical or programming background) is definitely worth a lot these days. A good developer is 10x better than a mediocre one, and many firms can get away with paying them 2-3x the salary and skimpy bonuses, and never even realize how important they are to the firm's success.
Just a few thoughts (and lessons) I've learned along the way.
BTW, I can basically predict the relative strengths of all the financials next year. Take the avg ranking of their reputation among clients and peers in their core business, and there you have it. There are other metrics, like the customer service in mundane parts of the firm and attrition rate of employees. Those who forgot or don't realize that Wall Street is and will become even more a people business built on trust should perhaps consider another line of work.
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 8:27AM
I'm @8:31 PM, the UBS employee, but in a support role, not the business. Let me say that nothing has changed in the attitude of the UBS business -- the only remorse felt is due to being caught. Many senior people have moved on to other banks or are taking "sabbaticals". The least competent have been promoted to fill the gaps and now prance around like they have 12 inch cocks.
Everything UBS did is endemic to the bastardized American/Swiss corporate culture, and to repeat, IT HAS NOT CHANGED.
Employees such as myself, working to keep the place running while the farktards piss the company down the drain for a big bonus, have few options and can't afford to take sabbaticals.
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 9:17AM
Dear UBS employee @ 8:27AM -- are you sure you have "few options?" Are your ethical standards so low you're not looking for another support role at a place you can hold your head up? As long as you stay to "keep the place running" you are complicit. If all the big shots are gone (fired or sabbaticals) why are you staying at the party?
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 9:57AM
UBS employee - you'll probably be fine as long as your support role wasn't compliance related, in which case you might want to take it off your resume and put in "taught english in asia" for those years.
I think this quote from Seymour Schulich (founder of Newmont Mining) is good advice in general:
"AVOID SWINE (people who act in a swine-like fashion): It's worth buying this fine book just to understand this rule for a less stressful life. "A swine is a swine is a swine" - and swine will always be swine, even if, for the moment he is acting in an unswine-like fashion. You cannot reform swine. It's better to just stay away from them."
Posted by beentheredonethat , Jul 19, 2008 10:08AM
SLK used to be a death knell ffor anyone who went to work there. You were not employble after that because that's where all the scumbags on the street ended up. Truly a sewer.
Posted by StMarc , Jul 19, 2008 10:41AM
It should be kept in mind that there is more than one reason why people with a little money might want to hide it offshore. Not everybody who wants a Swiss account (although I'm still holding out for Lichtenstein, because I'm guessing that everybody at the bank has now been fitted with a remote destruct collar) is trying to dodge taxes.
For instance, in this day and age, it takes a lot of effort to effectively hide (as opposed to their just not noticing) from the IRS, but with a little ingenuity it's not too hard to keep things away from the MRS. And while the MRS can't throw you in jail (unless you miss your child support payments,) it can actually take MORE of your money than the IRS can under many circumstances. With enough pressure, the IRS can make life hard for His Highness Hans-Adams, but the NY County Supreme Court can go and whistle, for all he cares.
M
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 10:53AM
With sympathies to the hapless UBS employee, there was no way of knowing he/she would be working for swine. The Swiss-secrecy culture means employees are on a need-to-know basis and given regular pep talks that paint a rosy picture. No doubt our employee will soon be summoned to an indoctrination session about how shocked the firm was to learn that a small handful of bad bankers were engaged in crimes and that diamond smuggling will be promptly punished!
Schulich, being a good Hebe, could have smelled this swine before the I.R.S. started roasting it. Unfortunately, people who need to pay the rent also have a need to be convinced everything's kosher.
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 10:59AM
UBS "support" employee@8:27am...
bcc: beentheredonethat
"UBS...culture...IT HAS NOT CHANGED".
I'm not at UBS, and I have no involvement with UBS, but I've been following Sen. Levin's nice work so far.
With Uncle Sam on UBS's case in a very serious way, how can UBS continue along "UNCHANGED"? Uncle Sam is all over them, the 19,000 are getting ready for the "Big Bang", and client confidence in UBS must really be taking a hit.
Are you in denial, or what? I don't think Sen. Levin and Uncle Sam are going away any time soon. After all, they took out UBS in what, 5 hours? How hard was that?
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 12:14PM
OK Guy from Delaware, how long do YOU think UBS can continue doing business? They've got more losses and writedowns coming, lawsuits over auction rate securities, the I.R.S. rifling their Rolladex, Swiss regulators demanding more capitalization, and is that a run as clients head for the exits?
How long can deep pockets stay afloat? How long before waiting vultures swoop down on a sorry stock price and devour the putrid remains?
(Maybe Bess can start a contest. Predict the day UBS goes the way of Bear and win a pulled-pork-sandwich.)
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 12:44PM
Guest@12:14pm...
Thank you for the question. I don't know how long UBS can continue "doing business", any business at all, that is. It sounds from your post that UBS may not survive until Labor Day. Perhaps you have some kind of projection you could share.
I was questioning the UBS employee about his/her assertion that UBS is continuing along unchanged. To me, that seemed unbelievable, as you so ably pointed out.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 12:49PM
Guest@12:14pm...
BTW, "the I.R.S. rifling their Rolladex". I like it. Clever.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 12:59PM
So what happen to the UBS staff who were given restricted stock or stock options as part of their renumeration for the last few years?
Are they now worthless? What's happened to them?
I heard all staff have their cash component capped at $750k.
The Big Cheese at the top of the pile must be pissed now.
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 2:17PM
Guest@12:59pm...
"The Big Cheeses at the top of the pile" should be damn thankful if they escape a prison sentence. That $750k is a lot of money to me, but it may end up meaning much more than that to them after Uncle Sam sideswipes their bank accounts.
As for the rank-and-file staff of "little people" (I imagine there are thousands of you), you will probably suffer a lot of pain. The Big Cheeses don't give a shit about you, they never did. I guess that your restricted stock may have more value than the options, but I don't know.
My preference would be for all the Big Cheeses who are under investigation to be suspended without pay, with their options frozen, pending the outcome of Uncle Sam's work. Then, after they're convicted/pled guilty, they should be fired and sued by UBS for "tarnishing UBS's good name". That would make them sit up straight.
Maybe you should consider looking for another job.
BTW, what is all this UBS executive "sabbatical" business about. Are those clowns already suspended/fired?
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 2:27PM
I don't know any people in the business originally from SLK (or its reputation and history), but the tech people were top-notch from what I knew. Had the privilege of working with and for them.
UBS is indeed in scary shape. Its writedowns of 37.7B were dwarfing its market cap just a few days ago, and this is doesn't even include the equity that diluted the existing shares further. And now this item, which threatens to alienate their Las Vegas style and reputation with clients (what enters UBS stays in UBS) and their reputation with the IRS and governments of US/Europe.
(guest@1:10AM)
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 5:26PM
UBS - You Buy Us ad parody.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbB7LgdMUf4
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 7:30PM
who the fuck writes press releases for UBS? George Owell's bastard stepchild?
Rueters and Co. headlines from yesterday:
"UBS vows to assist US govt in identifying tax cheats"
LOL 111!!111
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 8:53PM
@8:31 PM UBS employee here again. To answer some of the comments
* With regards to "nothing has changed", what I mean is that the American-Swiss corporate culture abomination hasn't changed and the rewards, and hence encouragement, for certain types of behavior have not changed. In typical UBS fashion, there'll simply be more bureaucratic process around business activities. There is tremendous cultural inertia thanks to the vast bulk of superfluous, anonymous UBS middle-management, and the solution to this sickness really must be to purge the firm of the majority of these political game-playing deadweights. The only way that will happen is if UBS is split up and sold off, or taken over, which would be a very good thing all round.
* Yes, I'm looking elsewhere for employment as are large numbers of my colleagues across many departments. However, most of us cannot simply retire as so many in the business have been able to do, and the market is a bit tight. When the bulk of employees have lost confidence in a firm, does it have a future? If I was a client, I'd take my business elsewhere.
* Those of us with stock options are screwed. They are worthless and our Equity Plus investment (regular purchase of UBS shares automatically deducted from our pay) has dropped through the floor obviously.
* "Sabbatical" is one of those terms like "explore external opportunities", but some senior biz guys like it because it gives them an faux-intellectual air. Many of those responsible for this mess have taken the money and buggered off to sit out the hard times in comfort.
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 9:29PM
@7:30
Pure comedy.
"uh, well, we had all these wealth clients who were looking to evade taxes and all 20,000 asked us on the same day to help them out. So, we did, because you know as they say, the customer is always right" So even though we really had nothing to do with it, we feel duty bound to expose these cheating customers of ours to the proper authorities"
Posted by guest , Jul 19, 2008 10:59PM
I really hope that Sen. Levin is not yet finished with UBS. Something tells me that UBS will not survive much longer as a banking institution in the US. Uncle Sam wants their hide and wants also to make an example of them. Hopefully, the UBS "Big Cheeses", whether they're on "sabbatical" or not, will soon be 'puckering up' for the 'Big Bang' right along with the 19,000.
Guest@9:29pm...
I like the UBS "quotation" you wrote. "Pure Comedy".
UBS Employee @8:53pm...
I still think you are not accepting the fact that UBS has already changed. Uncle Sam's on their case big time, and Sen. Levin's not likely to back off. Don't worry, Uncle Sam will "purge" them. Too bad for the people like you though. Your UBS careers are about to vanish, and probably through no fault of your own.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Jul 20, 2008 7:33AM
There has always been an arrogance and out-of-touch mentality at UBS. So our employee is probably right in observing there's no change in attitude over there. But soon we'll be reading about thousands of employees whose life savings were tied up in UBS stock and it's going to be Enron misery all over again.
Federal authorities may let UBS limp along to avoid another bank failure. But they should prosecute the arrogant pricks who "retired" with big packages or "went on sabbatical." They knew or should have known UBS was in the business of hiding money from the I.R.S. Sounds like organized crime to me.
Posted by guest , Jul 20, 2008 9:51AM
I'm not sure if it was an air of arrogance that the senior UBS executives have or just the cachet of being the leading Swiss bank. I suspect it was the latter.
Honestly, UBS didn't have the track record to be arrogant in North America. They were level with Credit Suisse and were probably better than Deutsche in the US. But this is probably not the case anymore.
Ken Moelis's departure definitely hurt their M&A business. Others who joined Moelis like Navid Mahmoodzadegan, Jeff Raich, and John Momtazee have also taken business from their old employer. The departure of Mike Martin and Olivier Sarkozy have left a huge void in their North American F.I.G. coverage. UBS still have Rick Leaman and Cary Kochman to lead the M&A business. But that's it. I can't see how they can make any lateral hires now.
They were just scraping into the bulge bracket and UBS America is now a ship half abandoned. I'd be surprised if they can get any new whale clients at their PWM division. No one will dare bank with UBS because they know they will instantly get onto the IRS' radar screen. If I was a Private Banker at a rival firm, I'd call all their clients and pitch on this very point.
UBS employee, TGFD is right. It's not your fault. It's the clowns and goons above you that are the problems.