We've heard from lots and lots of DealBreaker readers who passed the CFA level II and level III exams, and a few who didn't pass. (This time! Buck up, kids! You'll nail it next time!) From what we can tell, reading DealBreaker seems to be positively correlated with passing. Readers seem to have passed in far higher percentages than the overall test taking group.
But we want to know a bit more about how you did on the exams. A few of you have already let us in on your scores. "My worst score was portfolio management," one portfolio manager told us.
The test covers various categories, which we list after the jump, and test takers are told whether they scored in the fifty percentile, between the fifty-first and seventieth percentile and above the seventieth. So in the comments section below, let us know how you scored and what your job is. Is everyone's CFA score negatively correlated with their professional responsibilities?
- Alternative Investments
- Corporate Finance
- Derivatives
- Economics
- Equity Investments
- Ethical & Professional Standards
- Financial Statement Analysis
- Fixed Income Investments
- Portfolio Management
- Quantitative Methods
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 1:52PM
I'm a hedge fund trader and my worst score was in both alternative investments and portfolio management.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 1:53PM
Just received G.E.D. on the first try. Had summer intership in Risk at Bear pulled after the JPM takeover but waiting to hear back from Lehman after 3rd round of interviews.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 1:53PM
Hey @1 who gives a shit
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 1:56PM
@3: Uhm, I do. I asked for exactly that information! Lay off the haterade.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:01PM
I just passed Level 2, majored in economics in college. I got 50% or below in economics on both the Level 1 and 2 exams.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:03PM
I just passed Level 2, majored in economics in college. I got 50% or below in economics on both the Level 1 and 2 exams.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:03PM
i work at citi and got the worse in ethics... seems like a positive correlation to me
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:07PM
I too majored in Economics and I got the lowest score in Econ.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:07PM
Can't believe the venom I'm seeing for the past few days on the CFA thing. Looks like people who never tried, never had the energy to step up to the plate are criticizing from behind the anonimity of their keyboards: means nothing, its easy, wouldn't put those initials on my card even if I earned them. Jeez.. You proud of yourselves? I'm thinking its the NY / Wall St / competitive thing taken to a very bad extreme.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:11PM
shrug... I'm apping for jobs in portfolio mgmt (not going very well) and smashed that section on the CFA (level 1). I am kind of a stats/quant finance nerd though.
anyone putting specific section scores on their resume or mentioning them in interviews?
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:12PM
shrug... I'm apping for jobs in portfolio mgmt (not going very well) and smashed that section on the CFA (level 1). I am kind of a stats/quant finance nerd though.
anyone putting specific section scores on their resume or mentioning them in interviews?
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:15PM
11 I work in asset management. Don't do it. The hurdle is did you or did you not pass.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:18PM
I passed all three parts; each time, I scored the lowest on alternatives. I invest in alternatives managers for my job. That test is a racket. I swear there were a couple questions where every answer choice was wrong (and this was affirmed by multiple people each time who passed). They think they are training you to be an astronaut or something, trying to throw in a last minute wrench to see how you react when in a panic. Not to mention the proctors for those are some of the nastiest old chicks I've ever seen.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:33PM
@10-11 Are you kidding? Putting your section scores for Level I on your resume would not only be a clear violation of the guidelines for use of the mark, but it would definitely earn you nothing but ridicule from any serious employers
- CFA charterholder
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:34PM
I am a portfolio manager and I just passed level 3. Portfolio Management has consistently been my lowest scoring topic on each level.
Posted by golden girl , Aug 21, 2008 2:34PM
It would be lamer than lame to put individual section scores on a resume. What, "Got above 70% on CFA Level 2 Derivatives section?" Give me a break.
Anyway, I'm with everyone else - econ was my worst section despite being an econ major. It was so obnoxious of them to put two balance-of-payment questions on there! And portfolio management. That section was so fucking random.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:35PM
What are people's opinions of the CFAIA?
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:35PM
Glad I passed all that shit when I was younger and dumber. Now, I can go out and party on Memorial Day. When will the tools at AIMR or "The Institute" get their heads out of there asses and offer II and III more than once per year? Oh, and allow you to use a 20th century calculator.
@11--If anyone mentioned their section scores or any scores in an interview, unless they were highlighting how many times they had failed ethics, the interview is over.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:35PM
I'm a cash equities trader and scored lowest in equity investments.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:35PM
Passed level 3, job focus is asset allocation, and received low score in asset allocation.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:38PM
When I took level III, one of my finance professors from B School was taking level III--again. Wish I had known that shit when he was terrorizing our section first year.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:38PM
@11, be careful what you say about your results on the CFA on your resume and in interviews. They address this issue rather thoroughly in the ethics section. A good rule of thumb is to limit your dicussion of the CFA to why you want the certication, and where you currently are (i.e. what level are you taking next June). Discussing how you did on specific sections and where you scored is a slippery slope. Hopefully you did as well on the ethics section as the portfolio management section. I didn't realize >70 percentile was smashing that section.
Posted by Anal_yst , Aug 21, 2008 2:38PM
@ 17
If you're talking about CAIA, step 1 is getting the name right, just a friendly hint
Posted by mktmkr , Aug 21, 2008 2:39PM
I saw a guy @ Vessey/Church handing out fliers for a CFA review class for you jamokes who failed.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:39PM
#11 while all of these guys are freaking out to your question because they are little "ethical" CFA nerds, i just had a friend who interviewed at tpg and they asked for documentation of his specific scores. don't put them on your resume but keep them handy in case someone asks for them. i guarantee #18 on this board either steals money or whores around regularly. you're like one of those guys in an interview who says "my reputations is all i have." those are always the guys you have to watch our for.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:41PM
That's the one Anal_yst. I think a lack of familiarity was implicit in the question. Any useful thoughts or just droll?
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:42PM
Ethics was tough for L2, I scored 50-70, wish the guy I copied off studied a little harder or guessed better in that section
Posted by golden girl , Aug 21, 2008 2:43PM
You know, I think the more "real world" knowledge you have on a topic, the harder the topic is on the test. It's just hard to "un-learn" things that may be the convention but aren't what is taught in the curriculum.
Posted by miami , Aug 21, 2008 2:44PM
9 - There's no venom, it's just a TLA that's unnecessary to work in finance, or manage large sums of money.
The vast majority of the successful HF and PE managers I know and work with don't have it. If you want it, bully for you!
Whether it's trivially easy or not is irrelevant -- at least pick one POV and stick to it. Either you were forced to by your boss, or wanted to 'better yourself' with another TLA.
In either case the amount of 'energy' you think is required is a complete non-sequitur.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:46PM
#25, nothing is nerdier than telling anyone what you scored on stats on the CFA. You are obviously one of those retail brokers who try to earn the designation to impress your widow and orphan clients. Good thing they drop you before they notice "CFA Candidate" has been on your business card for five years and eight different bucket shops.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:47PM
25 Are you serious? I passed III in 2002 and on any interview since, all I did was haul out the letter saying I had been granted the charter. No questions about scores. In fact, all I remember when getting the results each year is hearing for each section whether my score was average, or above or below average. Do they give you scores now?
Posted by hawk99 , Aug 21, 2008 2:49PM
I'm a sell-side analyst and my lowest score was ethics
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:50PM
Bought the books for Level I in 2005 and they haven't left the shelf. Congratulations to anyone with the discipline to do it. Would rather slam my nuts in a car door than have to study for and pass all three levels.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:52PM
I am surprised that econ majors seem to be doing poorly on econ--I thought that was the easiest with no studying. I wonder if they made it harder or just tossed in some BS national income accounting questions or something else nobody ever thinks about after Econ 101.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:54PM
#31 this is #25 I was also surprised by this and haven't heard of it happening much. THey give you a score range so that's what they asked for. People used to do that for SAT scores back in the day, so I guess it's not that surprising. #30 i don't know what you are saying about giving your stat scores out.
can i start a new question: how many people got bombed after the test, much worse than usual? I know i did.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 2:57PM
Work with Derivatives and fixed income. aced both of those sections. I think there is big time positive correlation.
Posted by Debter , Aug 21, 2008 3:01PM
Worst section was eco as well (eco major) along with Alt I. I'm gonna agree with some previous posters and say it's a f'in racket. I trade and the material is not very useful in day to day work. The quant stuff is oversimplified and I pretty much don't need the rest to do my job. Looks good on the resume, only on the buy side though. Most bankers could care less. The material is heavily skewed toward equities, which is fine, but it will almost do nothing for the FI guys.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:01PM
#36--or since the layoff, you had more time to study.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:02PM
36 For those sections I would agree. I don't work in that area and just had some broad knowledge. Knew basic bond math and could barely define duration. Result was total agony learning those parts. Passed all three.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:03PM
CFA now ranks you on how poorly you did on the exam. If you failed, you get a score of 1-10, 10 being the closest to passing, 1 being not even fucking close and pull up your pants.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:14PM
One of my close buddies failed (level III) and ranked a 10. She was so fucking mad she hurled objects at random people/children.
Who wants to know that 2 wrong guesses is going to cost you another spring indoors, studying?
Stupid useless information designed to fuck with your mind!!!!
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:15PM
#33 I bought the books in 2001, needless to say things got slightly busy.
Congratulations to anyone with the dedication to work and beat books a few hours a day. I'm certainly to comfortable and lazy to try that crazy shit again.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:23PM
I was an econ major and I got the highest scores on Econ & ethics. If it weren't for my past life as an econ nerd I wouldn't have been able to remembered what the Herfindahl-Hirschman Index was.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:37PM
I work in mayo trading and scored lowest in ethics.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:38PM
I think the only real take away is that those sections (Alt Inv, PM, Econ, Quant) are so small (6 questions) and the questions so specfic/random that the score category is pretty meaningless for them.
And, yeah, I work in quant and scored in the middle range on that section. I can laugh at it because I passed.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:41PM
I went to the University of Chicago and majored in Economics. The CFA curriculum is quite different then the curriculum I followed in school. At one point I was getting less then 1 in 3 Macroeconomics questions correct on my schweser practice tests. Microeconomics was different, I scored 100% on practice tests.
Posted by Anal_yst , Aug 21, 2008 3:45PM
props to you kids who actually passed this thing, hell i gotta gmat book and have been too lazy/indifferent/etc to get on that and its a joke comparitively
also
@ 26
1-2 took the CAIA, passed on the 1st try, and still thinks its a joke, so there ya go
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:45PM
29 The absolute number of successful HF and PE managers is pretty small. Realistically, betting your career on being one is like buying lottery tickets. It may work, but probably not. For the rest of us, the CFA program can open doors, especially in long only equities and to a lesser extent FI.
Posted by Cincinnatus C , Aug 21, 2008 3:49PM
that's funny..i swear to god i consistently did poorly in asset valuation, and i'm in valuation.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:51PM
does anyone have any advice for when an incoming college senior should start thinking about the CFA?
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:56PM
I'm the CEO of a hedge fund. What is a "CFA"?
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 3:58PM
51,
get with it dude.
http://www.cfainc.org/
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:00PM
@50,
It sounds like you have already started thinking about the CFA. Perhaps your real question is when should I register? Studying for the CFA, especially levels II and III, requires one to sacrifice their social life. Figure out when you want to make that sacrifice and you've figured out when you should register. If you want to do that during your Senior year, fine. But if you are willing to make that sacrifice you probably have a pretty shitty social life, and pretty shitty social skills. The CFA designation won't make up for your lack of interpersonal skills. If you are lacking in this arena, the higher valued added choice would be to spend your senior year mixing it up at the frat parties and the bars getting shitfaced. Seriously. Don't underestimate the importance of the soft skills.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:02PM
50 Lets just say that in a tough job market, it couldn't hurt to have on your resume "passed Level I of the CFA". The test is given in December and June, results for L I two mos after. So you're a little late. If you have the time and the inclination, you could start the program and say that on the resume, then talk to it in interviews.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:04PM
My opinion of CFAIA is that it affords the institute a whole new topic-opportunity for generating fees, which is mainly what these professional credentials are about.
Also, CFA Charterholder
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:12PM
The way to take it is get level I out of the way the June you graduate from B-school, or undergrad, if you are a finance type. Half of it will be stuff you already know by heart, so you won't have to study for it much. Even if you do, you need something to do second semester, second year.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:13PM
I remember in CFA I sitting about 10 feet from the hottest dude imaginable. Blond and tan with hot pecs and dressed in shorts from the diving team at some school - i wanna say UVA - and adidas slides on his big feet. I could hardly concentrate, but did in fact buck up and passed. Didn't see him the next year at II, so I assumed he didn't. But then at III, there he was, this time just as buff in regular shorts. One fine young man. Totally puts to rest the theory that only nerds do the CFA. GAnalYst
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:18PM
I went 3 for 3 and got <50 on ethics each time. When they tell you that isn't possible - don't believe them. They're liars. Very unethical.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:20PM
Ethics is a fooler. Its tricky and not as intuitive as people think. You actually have to study.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:23PM
It's not intuitive at all!
I'm not gonna memorize soft dollar shit and ethics guidelines. So I just read the questions, thought about what I'd normally do, and found the multiple choice answer that was the opposite of that.
Posted by Suits , Aug 21, 2008 4:24PM
I'm a naked short selling insider trading rumor monger, and I scored best on ethics.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 4:35PM
What makes ethics hard is that it is all gray. You read it and know the right thing to do, but you know that is not an option for a Wall St. analyst, so it has to be sorta ethical. Makes it harder to BS. Also, it is not enough to know what you should do (the answer is always "disassociate" in some way) you have to be able to quote the damn chapter and verse. Total BS.
I got lucky on I and II and ethics was afternoon, so I got one last chance to cram.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 5:10PM
Question for all:
How many years young were you when you decided to register for the Cant F*ck Anyone card? I just started ETF trade support trying to see where my career should go after a year of this bs. I live in slutville hoboken so its a choice between studying women or equity.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 5:40PM
There's probably not a negative correlation, but there's definitely less of a positive correlation than most people expect. You study harder for what you're most nervous about--for me that was quant. My stats knowledge sucked going in, but I spent a lot of time on it and was surprised to get >70 every time.
The Econ and PM sections are a little misleading, especially for people who think that an undergrad econ major means they don't have to study. The material covered is specific; on Level 2 I think it was basically FX. And then the PM section is a very large portion of the test that includes some kind of random stuff unrelated to the daily work of talking to analysts and monitoring the portfolio.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 6:14PM
I bombed econ and portfolio management - did ok with quant and "aced" the rest. I thought it was a pretty brutal test. I put in about 250 hours of studying, but it was worth it in the end.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 6:33PM
Passed all three first try. I have to say that the pictures of some of the "CFA's" that they have on the text books are f**king hideous..... for a long time I said to my self if i have to look like that then there is no way I am taking this designation. The situation has improved in recently but....
Calgreedy
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 6:33PM
Passed all three first try. I have to say that the pictures of some of the "CFA's" that they have on the text books are f**king hideous..... for a long time I said to my self if i have to look like that then there is no way I am taking this designation. The situation has improved in recently but....
Calgreedy
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 6:39PM
Australian Equity Analyst
Worst score on FSA and ethics... f**k GAAP
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 6:42PM
I am waiting for timmmmmmay to endorse the CFA before I take it
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 6:54PM
It used to be pretty common knowledge that people tended not to do well in the area in which they worked. This was actually the first thing the instructor from Stalla said in my review class (circa 1999).
The curriculum is broad even within subjects and specific info is required - people's expertise tends to be very niche so they overestimate their broader knowledge base and tend to give the answer "they believe is right" rather than the one in the curriculum.
Also - to all the people talking about how to put it on their resume, I recall there being an entire section in ethics about proper use of the CFA designation. I really doubt its been removed. And people wonder why the failure rate is high, actually reading and studying do wonders to improve one's chances of passing.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 9:32PM
#28.
yes. The more direct knowledge you have the harder the exam especially in portfolio management. Most PMs underperform the market and the CFA exam is likely a way to get these underperformers to unlearn what they should not be implementing in portfolios. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks though.
Posted by guest , Aug 21, 2008 10:10PM
"From what we can tell, reading DealBreaker seems to be positively correlated with passing. "
You are a fool. Making public whether you passed or failed seems to be positively correlated with passing.
Posted by guest , Aug 22, 2008 12:58AM
You usually go lighter on sections you already know from your day job, hence the lower results in those sections. Congratulations to all those who passed. Good luck next year for those who did not.
Posted by guest , Aug 22, 2008 10:33AM
#72 for the win!
Posted by guest , Aug 22, 2008 10:33AM
#72 for the win!
Posted by guest , Aug 22, 2008 10:33AM
#72 for the win!
Posted by guest , Aug 22, 2008 2:34PM
51-70% on Derivatives, Equity, and Quant. Above 70% on everything else. Work in institutional marketing. This is for Level I, so the easy part is out of the way.
Posted by guest , Aug 23, 2008 7:36PM
I just passed level 2, where's this 1-10 ranking people are talking about? I didn't see it online with my results.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 2:10PM
#78 you didn't see it because you passed.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 3:29AM
70%
I don't believe this refers to a percentile score, but rather an absolute percentage mark for each section.
Having passed Level III four years ago, I've never come across anything saying the above was a percentile ranking.
Check your facts!
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 3:32AM
My previous comment didn't post properly.
I had at the beginning:
70%
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 3:34AM
Didn't work again, so I'll write it out:
less than 50%
between 50% and 70%
greater than 70%
Posted by nybasic , Aug 28, 2008 10:31AM
LOL @ &. Good Stuff. I worked at JP Morgan Chase in retail for a while, and it aint any better over there.
Posted by nybasic , Aug 28, 2008 10:42AM
oops, i meant to say @ 7.