Q&A on The Veepstakes: The Race to Be America's Number Two

No American parent has ever looked at their son or daughter and said, "You know, I hope you one day end up being Vice President". And yet, for all the lack of glamour the vice presidency has in the public mind, speculation over who will be chosen by a presidential candidate to be a running mate is the Olympic decathlon of talking heads, political pundits, and guys posting on blogs from their basements at 2am.

But how does this process even happen? Why do people like Katherine Sebelius or Tim Pawlenty get their names mentioned as potential running mates but people like Steve Rothman or Dave Heineman get passed over like yesterday's lunchmeat? And does any of it give us an idea of how the candidate on the top of the ticket will govern?

To get some answers, we sent asked Dan Gerstein, someone who has a lot of familiarity with a vice presidential campaign. Gerstein worked with Senator Joe Lieberman for a decade and was Lieberman's national spokesman for the 2000 VP campaign. He was also the brains behind Lieberman's successful re-election in the heated 2006 Senate race in Connecticut. Gerstein was written several op-ed pieces for the Wall Street Journal (including this one on Wednesday) and appears on MSNBC, Fox News, and NY1. Gerstein now supports Barack Obama for President though Lieberman was considered to be one of the top contenders as John McCain's running mate.


Also to his credit, Gerstein typed his responses on his BlackBerry while at INVESCO Field listening to Barack Obama's acceptance speech, meeting with clients, and talking to other media all at the same time.

1. How does someone get to be chosen as the VP nominee? How does one get on the radar screen?

Dan Gerstein: "There is no one formulaic path. Sometimes they come from the primary field, having shown they are effective vote getters and/or helpful with a critical constituency. Sometimes they are rising stars within the party who add a little pizzazz to the ticket. Sometimes they are someone who is a safe choice who has a strong rapport and trust with the presidential nominee."

2. Who filters all the possible choices? Not just the final choice but the also-rans... Who does the grunt work of sorting through resumes?

DG: "Presidential campaigns usually assemble a whole team of vetters whose sole job is to pour through materials and do interviews. These folks are typically lawyers, though not always."

3. Caroline Kennedy supposedly helped pick Obama's VP pick.

Why did she get that job if she never held public office? Did she actually do the work or was it just an honorific title? Who else worked on it?

DG: "It's hard to say for sure. Divining from the outside, I would say she was chosen in part because she had Obama's trust, partly out of respect for her uncle [Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), one of Obama's earlier supporters this year], partly because she was a woman, and partly because of her universal good will within the party. She clearly worked on it, as did Eric Holder, the former deputy attorney general, who co-headed the search process."

4. How does a background check work on these potential VP nominees? Who's looking for the "dead hooker or live boy in a hotel room"? How do those guys even start tracking down those things? How much info are they gathering? Are they looking into family backgrounds, too? Where does it begin and where does it end?

DG: "The vetters go through every document they can get their hands on, track down every hint of scandal and controversy, and talk to an extremely wide circle of contacts for any prospective candidate who is seriously being considered. The whole goal is to avoid any surprises."

5. Who is doing the filtering for John McCain?

DG: "I don't know."

6. Is there a difference between the way Obama and McCain pick their running mates? Is there a general difference between the ways in which each party's nominee makes that choice?

DG: (No answer)

7. Bill Clinton famously picked Al Gore as his running mate after meeting Gore only one or two times and for just a few minutes each time. How has choosing a running mate changed over the years? What does the choice for VP say about the presidential candidate themselves?

DG: "The only universal conclusion you can reach about the VP selection process is that it is a deeply personal decision, and as such, the process each presidential nominee's uses reflects their management and decision-making style."

8. If there is too much contrast between a candidate and his running mate (think Dan Quayle versus George HW Bush), does that hurt or help a ticket?

DG: "It can create a minor distraction/irritant, but it really doesn't have much of lasting impact -- that is, unless, the presidential candidate has a history of flip-flopping and the differences with the VP candidate help advance a damaging narrative about the presidential candidate's lack of principle."

9. When Joe Biden was picked, TV pundits were saying he'd help Obama carry the religion-and-guns-clinging state of Pennsylvania as well as the crucial state of Delaware. Does anyone care anymore about what state a VP nominee is from? This is the Internet Age. Do people really look at a ticket anymore and say, "Well, I wasn't going to vote for Candidate X but since his vice presidential nominee is from my state (or my region, especially the Deep South), I HAVE to vote for him now"?

DG: "VP candidates have rarely helped deliver critical states for a winning ticket -- LBJ in Texas is the last clear example of the last half century. VP candidates can help at the margins in certain regions, but usually their most valuable appeal is to constituencies, not geographies."

10. Joe Biden was touted as a possible VP by the press the moment he stopped running for president. Was that on purpose (i.e., did someone in the Biden camp start a campaign to put him on a ticket) or was it a case of the press deciding a running mate for Obama?

DG: "It was a case of him being an obvious asset and choice for this particular candidate, both in terms of their comfort level and trust and the way Biden's experience and cultural background complement Obama's."

11. Given that Biden was an early-on favorite for VP, does this mean that Obama's campaign is playing it safe by being, well, unimaginative?

DG: "Not at all. It simply means sometimes the smart choice is the obvious one."

12. How much risk can or should John McCain take in his pick? At 2-to-1 odds, Mitt Romney is currently the favorite to get the VP pick. Do the odds-makers -- who correctly picked Biden for Obama -- know something we don't? Does McCain endanger the ticket by further painting the GOP as the party of the rich and old white guys?

DG: "McCain has few good options available to him. Pick a moderate and he deepens his issues with the base, pick a conservative and he limits his appeal to the swing voters who will decide this race. Moreover, unless he picks an out-of-the-box candidate like Lieberman or Meg Whitman, his VP pick will play little role in helping him win votes. That's why I believe McCain will most likely pick a safe, inoffensive, youngish conservative who he is personally comfortable -- Tim Pawlenty."

13. What are Joe Lieberman's chances for getting picked by McCain as VP? Is that a far-fetched bubbe meise (fairy-tale) that he's on McCain's shortlist? Would the pick of another old white guy who supported the war be a bad thing or is the pick of an old school liberal Democrat who wants to unite America in a time of general crisis a good thing?

DG: "It is highly unlikely that McCain will pick Lieberman. By most indications McCain would probably like to pick Lieberman, and Lieberman would be an asset in trumping Obama's unity message and appealing to swing voters. But the far right and the right-to-lifers would most likely blow up the convention and too many of them would refuse to show up in November."

14. Once the VP picks are chosen, what exactly do they do for the remaining two-and-a-half months? What are they expected to do? What do they actually do?

DG: "The VP candidates' job is to amplify the campaign's message and multiply its presence in key states."

15. What does a typical day for a VP candidate look like? Are they under less, equal, or more pressure than a presidential candidate?

DG: "Their schedules are very similar to the presidential candidates: do a message event in each market, at least one retail hand-shaking event, and often one fundraising event, while squeezing in as much local TV and radio as possible. And typically, the VP candidate is dispatched to carry whatever hit against the opposition the campaign decides they want to drive."

16. Does the Presidential candidate really consult with their running mate regularly or do they not care what the bottom half of the ticket thinks?

DG: "It depends on how close the two candidates are and how much the presidential candidate trusts the VP candidate's judgment. Sometimes they collaborate and consult on a regular even daily basis. Sometimes they talk only when there is a critical strategy decision to make concerning the VP's role -- or when the VP candidate needs to brought into line on something."

17. Since they have had less time to prepare for all this, who keeps the VP candidate's entourage (embarrassing members of the family, questionable friends and business associates, groupies, hangers-on, bitter in-laws, etc.) at bay? Do they get their own set of handlers? Who picks them?

DG: "The VP candidate's family typically gets staff dedicated to meeting their needs, keeping them out of trouble, and staffing them when they serve as surrogates on the campaign trail. The VP's campaign manager is usually in charge of making staffing decisions, but sometimes the candidate gets directly involved when it involves sensitive family members."

18. If a VP candidate is at odds with their running mate, how do they express it, if at all?

DG: "They complain privately and then shut up if they know what is good for them."

19. Dick Cheney was perhaps the strongest Vice President the US has ever had. Some (okay, mostly conspiracy-prone bloggers) would even say he was the real president. Will there ever be a Dick Cheney-type Vice President any time soon? Was this, in part, the result of the constant media scrutiny a Presidential candidate gets, thereby requiring a relatively squeaky-clean "spokesmodel" President to take all the heat and the real brains (i.e., the VP) to do all the actual work? Or, was this a one-time deal? Is this a good or a bad thing?

DG: "Cheney was somewhat sui generis, because of Bush's lax management style and his lack of curiosity, along with Cheney's hunger for power and his staff's control-freakish hold on the White House bureaucracy. But I would argue that Gore really redefined the role of the super VP before Cheney got into office. And because they came back to back, I suspect that there will now be an expectation that a high-powered VP will be the norm -- until we get another George HW Bush who is on the outs with the top dog."

20. Overall, how important is a VP nominee? Are we paying too much attention to it?

DG: "Absolutely the press is paying too much attention to it, but that's not surprising. The news media of today does not do policy or nuance well and laps up simple, personality-driven stories, which the veepstakes is the height of. The fact is VP choices rarely make a difference in elections, and when they do, they tend to have a marginal negative impact."

Comments

1

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:40AM

Not long enough...didn't read.

2

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:42AM

Palin is hot!

3

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:46AM

no kankles, gotta be a positive...

4

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:49AM

BRILLIANT MOVE!

Not only does she splinter Hilary's amazonian following from the Dems, now Biden can't fully do his job as a VP candidate being the designated attack dog. You can't exactly get away with bullying a woman in a debate, that would only solidfy the amazon's behind her. Bravo Republicans, not only the Big Tent Party, but the BSD party as well.


-ComfortablySmug

5

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:51AM

I think Palin is a mistake. Talk about no experience. Unbelievable. What does McCain know that the rest of us don't?

The Guy from Delaware

6

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:52AM

monumental mistake, bordering on insanity.

7

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:54AM

She's a GILF

8

Posted by Anal_yst, Aug 29, 2008 10:55AM

Was hoping for Romney, but initially this surprise doesn't look horrible, should garner a few votes too

anyone elses head hurt, ugh!

Cluzo, how'd the meeting go?

9

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:57AM

All I need to know:

She hunts, eats moose hamburger, ice fishes, rides snowmobiles, and owns a float plane. Palin holds a lifetime membership with the National Rifle Association. She admits that she used marijuana when it was legal in Alaska, but says that she did not like it

10

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 10:58AM

Also, I read in the paper not too long ago that Palin is under suspicion regarding some kind of impropriety in Alaska. Anybody else heard that too?

The Guy from Delaware

11

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:01AM

one heartbeat from the presidency?

get real.

12

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:02AM

It's Palin.

Stick a fork in 0bama. He's done.

13

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:03AM

@5 - No experience (although true) is the last thing the Dems will harp on. See Barack Obama. Not even his strongest supporters can name ONE actual bona-fide accomplishment over his 48 years of life. Palin, 44, has the same if not marginally more experience (if you count being the runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant). Obama picked a guy to balance his lack thereof and McCain picked a WOMAN to balance his countless experiences.

14

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:03AM

You pubs are gonna get destroyed in this election. What a joke.

15

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 11:05AM

I think McCain and Palin are both going to get demolished in the debates.

Also, TGFD, the story I've heard is that actually Palin was notable for keeping herself clean of habitual Alaskan improprieties.

16

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:05AM

Listen - if The Guy from Delaware is against Palin you know she's an inspired choice. Obama is toast.

17

Posted by AJ, Aug 29, 2008 11:05AM

Read her wiki bio, she sounds cool

18

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:07AM

Alaska carries a ton of electoral votes and never ever goes Republican in the national elections. Excellent strategic choice. That ought to carry McCain in a close red state blue state split.

19

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:08AM

I don't know about the broader strategy, but it's brilliant tactical work. The timing of the announcement (and lack of leaks) has sucked the oxygen out of Obama's grand speech.

20

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:09AM

No experience? But Senator Obama, I have more experience than you!

21

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 11:11AM

@18 - "never ever goes Republican". fact check much?

22

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:12AM

@13, you're an idiot.

What does it take, exactly, to qualify as an 'accomplishment' in your book? Because if you would like me to list some, I'd be happy to. Or you can do your own homework.

23

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:14AM

18 That comment is amazing. Alaska is a super conservative place that ALWAYS goes R. You must be confusing it with Hawaii, which is just the opposite.

24

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:15AM

21, understand sarcasm much?!

idiot

25

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:16AM

21, understand sarcasm much?!

idiot

26

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:17AM

Obama accomplished so far zero. Except for himself. Won his senator seat because his opponent dropped out due to a sex scandal.

Obama got into Harvard, big deal. He got a job at a law firm and got married (Love Michelle) and has two great kids, and he bought a house in Chicago at below market costs. And he was a community organizer -- that's it.

No major legislation to his name. No governance. Never ran anything. He is a nice guy and a great speaker and a cool dude.

But do you want him to run the country? Needs training wheels.

27

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:18AM

22 Please list, and do me a favor and leave off community organizer, Harvard Law Review. That leaves you with Senator, to which I would reply not really, cause he started running for pres on day one. Nothing new to add here, but simply the reasons why I, typically a D, am voting for McCain.

In fact the O campain admits as much to his weak resume, by orienting the sell towards "don't judge me based on my resume, but instead on my energy and ability to deliver". Which is of course nonsense.

28

Posted by AJ, Aug 29, 2008 11:19AM

21&23, you are idiots

29

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 11:19AM

@21 - didn't catch it, gettin' all caught up in the back and forth. But hey, at least I don't double post, idiot.

30

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:19AM

24, not even the internet can disguise a distinct lack of sarcasm in post 18.

31

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:19AM

toast@#16...

I hope you're right.

brilliant@#19...

"sucked the oxygen out of obama's grand speech". I like it.

The Guy from Delaware

32

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:21AM

30 I'm gonna slightly disagree with you there. On first read I missed the sarcasm, but the tipoff for the more careful reader is "carries a ton of electoral votes". It is true thought that sarcasm doesn't work well on the web.

33

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:26AM

The really big problem is that when Obama loses everyone will say it's because of Racism.

You Republicans out there - please this time don't steal the election. MCCain can win fair and square. You don't need to fix the election like the last two (Florida in the first election, Ohio in the second).

Please this time let it be all perfect and legal so we know that Obama lost because people didn't want him.

I'm a democrat. I didn't like Kerry, but I voted for him. I like Obama because he's black, but that's all he has. I can't vote for him. You do need experience in SOMETHING to run the country.

34

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:27AM

32, for 18's sake I hope you're right.

35

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:27AM

Palin's a ridiculous choice. Yes, she has a vagina. No, this will not instantly get McCain the support of disgruntled Hillary supporters. Hillary supporters are very, VERY, pro-choice in general. Palin is rabidly pro-life.

Fail, McCain strategists, fail.

36

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:27AM

@ 15: put down that crackpipe and get to work.

37

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:28AM

@ 35: the labyrinth that passes for your brain is what makes leftwing ideology necessary.

38

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:29AM

Obama: This is a laughable affirmative action novelty selection for VP. She is completely lacking in experience!!

McCain: **Smug grin**

39

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:30AM

McCain’s got the Inuit block all locked up.

40

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:31AM

33, if you're voting for McCain you're not a Democrat, you're an idiot.

41

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:32AM

McCain doesn't need a strong VP to build credibility like Obama. He just needs one that can bring in more votes and possibly spell potato when quizzed.

kudos for playing the gender card. That can only help. And any gov from AK has to be libertarian leaning; we're talking about a state that lets its citizens grow pot in the privacy of their homes. Last but not least, in 2 short years Palin probably has more tangible experience with oil and energy issues than Obama and Biden combined.

42

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:34AM

37 - not really, rather simple tactical proposition, no? Palin's blatantly been chosen because she's a woman in the hopes of getting Hillary supporters onside. But that won't happen because most of them disagree with her on some rather basic policies.

Oh, and who said I was leftwing?

43

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 11:35AM

@36 talk to me after the debates

44

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:35AM

40 Not 33 here, but another D voting for McCain. There are lots more like me and we're not idiots. Much as you would have us believe McCain is GWB II, he's not. In a perfect world, he would not be my first choice, but he's a better choice than O.

45

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:37AM

#18, Did you mean that in the sense that Delaware never goes democratic and hence Biden would be able to convert a red state blue?

Obama chose Biden because he was only acutely aware of his absolute lack of any sort of experience (beyond giving awesome rhetorical speeches from teleprompters) and to add some pseudo blue-collar roots to his campaign.

McCain added Palin as a Washington outsider and a conservative - things which he is aware are holes in his bio. Also, it doesn't hurt that she is the only person in this contest with TRUE blue collar roots.

McCain comes froma long line of well-to-do defense folks and is married to a billionaire. Obama is son of a bunch of fairly well-to-do phds, went to private schools and then to ivys. Biden is the son of a one time millionaire playboy who friterred all his wealth away and slid into blue-collardom (that part his hidded in MSM).

So good for her. Dems attacking her for experience is retarded - as a vice presidential pick she has MORE experience and more relevant experience than their presidential candidate.

46

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:38AM

44, you're clearly 27 and you can vote for McCain if you'd like, just don't call yourself a Democrat and/or proclaim to have a consciense.

47

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:41AM

@44-- you are right, you're not an idiot, you are a dumb fucking moron, as are all the other people who are voting for mccain out of spite because clinton didn't get the nomination. you are like some spiteful chick who goes and sabotages her boyfriend's next relationship because you didn't get what you want (him). and don't call yourself a D if you're voting for an R.

48

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:42AM

brilliant@#19...

"sucked that oxygen out".

I'll add this: obama and that big democrat convention are now off the front page. Palin's on it. That huge arena with 85k people---It is as though McCain just stuck a pin in that big balloon, and all that hot air instantly evaporated, off into space. Hahaha.

The Guy from Delaware

49

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:45AM

@19-- you call announcing the nomination the day after the dnc BRILLIANT? it's strategic, as is everything, but brilliant? wow. raise your standards.

50

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:46AM

46 OK, I'll buy half of that. As a less loyal D than you I can see why you don't want me to call myself one. Although a good case can be made that you're not deserving either for allowing your party to be hijacked by someone who happened to game the system a little better - big wins in caucus states and among minorities; benefitting from the fiasco in MI and FL and a lack of backbone on the part of the super delegates, who were supposed to be there to offset the potential adverse effect on the party of funny rules like proportional voting.

But why don't I have a conscience?

51

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:47AM

49, TGFD didn't see it coming either and he just can't get enough of it. He thinks this was the most brilliant political move of all time. TGFD typifies McCain supporters.

52

Posted by Joseph di Jersey City, Aug 29, 2008 11:57AM

9: That's all I need to know too. A lifelong NRA member vs. two of the most anti-second amendment people to ever run for President/VP. This may not seem important to NYers but it is in much of the rest of the country, including many contested states.

53

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 11:59AM

what's the maternity leave policy in the white house?

54

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:04PM

Too bad Obama didn't run Texas (the Rangers or the State) for a few years. Then he would just OOZE experience, intelligence, leadership...

Now THAT is sarcasm.

55

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:04PM

VPILF!

56

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:07PM

Referring to #10 above, the back story on Palin is that she fired (or got her staff to fire) her brother-in-law who was a state trooper because he was involved in a nasty divorce from her sister. She claims she didn't know anything about it.

57

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:08PM

VPILF!

58

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:11PM

@54 Yeah -- Bush also had no experience. He didn't really run any of those things. He was a figure head. Daddy's name got him places. Alcoholic and Drug taking frat boy.

He had no experience really either. Did nothing on his own.

So you want to vote for Obama to get the same thing?

It would be useful to have someone running this country who has some experience to know what to do when the Iranians Nuke Israel...

59

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:17PM

54 I often get that answer when I raise the issue of O's experience. But its not relevant, unless you're holding W up as an example of a pres to be emulated. Which I'm not. And I doubt you are either. Which is why the answer makes no sense.

60

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:24PM

What an idiot - McCain must have made decision during a senior moment. The investigation into Palin has to do with her trying to use her political influence to her her brother-in-law fired.

61

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:26PM

@58 - That's a great vote for Obama/Biden. Biden, as the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, undoubtedly has the best foreign policy credentials out of any of them.

62

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:33PM

I've changed my mind. I'm 100% for Palin now. You clowns have been very helpful. See? I'm easy.

The Guy from Delaware

63

Posted by diablo, Aug 29, 2008 12:36PM

McCain did have another senior moment by picking Palin. I do believe this woman is just there to make sure he gets the fundamentalist vote that helped GWB in the last 2 elections. She's a creationist (Jesus rode dinosaurs instead of camels). She's also anti-choice, of the rabid type. A woman for the 18th century who could just replace the old guy if he croaks. Scary stuff. I'm sure this is the last hope he has to keep the old GWB coalition together for this election.

64

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:37PM

I wrote #18 and it is definitely meant to be a sarcastic comment. If #21 & 23 didn't get the sleight of hand comment, then they should take a lesson in reading between the lines. Alaska is a staunch conservative state, solidly in the western Republican sphere of influence. Once I stated, Alaska carries a ton of electoral votes (not), every statement beyond that should have been read as tongue-in-cheek sarcasm.

How is this for being more direct? This move reeks of some of the same desperation that Mondale had in 1984 when he chose Geri Ferraro. With a nod to Lloyd Bentsen 1988 drubbing of Dan Quayle, Senator I knew Margaret Thatcher and you're no Margaret Thatcher. Palin is no Iron Lady. This election is going to be close with a few states swinging the electorate one way or the other. Look for the Rust Belt to get the lions share of advertising dollars along with Dade, Broward & Palm Beach counties.

65

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:38PM

#55

Hell yea dude thats what I say. VPILF

I want to show Palin my o face.

SPODE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6UPR3OdroY&feature=related

66

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:41PM

another dumbass move by the republicans (which, being a dem, I'm all for). think the presence of palin's vagina will win over the clinton supporters? grow a neuron and think again. she is STAUNCH pro-lifer, which the hil. people are decidedly not.

67

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:46PM

59- No, it's not an argument for Obama. It's an example of (to be generous) your fluid logic.

It was a bad idea in 2000. But that didn’t stop you then or in 2004. Now, suddenly, when it's not your guy, you've got religion.

weak.

Weaker still, just like that dandy Cudlow, you probably also try to spin Bush as doing a bang up job given the circumstances.

68

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:50PM

She is a first term governor but she has been holding public office since she was 32 when she was elected mayor of her town. Hopefully she will not turn out to be a bad campaigner on a national stage, otherwise an inspired pick, second only to Marsha Blackburn.

@TGFD she is mostly known as a reformer, passing an important state ethics bill as her first act as gov that went against members of her own party. but you are right there is currently an investigation going on as she is accused by a former state trooper of using her influence to get him fired because he is having a child custody battle with her sister. From what I have heard though the guy was repeatedly caught drunk on the job and driving recklessly so who knows how that will play out, it is a bit of a risky move at least.

69

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 12:55PM

Michael Bolton is a no talent ass clown.

70

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 1:10PM

@66 pro life and the sanctity of marriage are just pandering for the religious right. It's all hot air. W ran his mouth about them for 8 years and what has happened?

Nobody but SCOTUS can really do anything about them period. Most rational voters (and yes this includes Dems) should be able to see through that.

71

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 1:13PM

the question is does palin know the difference between sunni and shia? does she know that czechoslovakia hasn't been a country for some time now?

and does she know how to compose a sentence with noun/verb/POW?

72

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 1:20PM

Why would a democrat vote for McCain?

Why would anyone vote for anyone on whether or not they are pro/anti gun. One issue voters ? Isn't that a tad simplistic given the times we live in?

McCain strong on terror but doesn't know the difference between Shi'a and Sunni. Come on that is Mid East 101.

Do you really want a president with less knowledge on the economy than Bush?

McCain the Maverick is like Bush the Simplistic. His choice of Palin is an example of how he goes with his gut. He doesn't listen to the people around him (who suggested romney - but McCain didn't like that idea because he is vain.Romney is taller, thinner, younger and made lots of his own money). Haven't you all had enough of presidents going with their gut?

73

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 1:27PM

romney would have been a disaster with the base, you only need to look at his record in massachusetts he is the ultimate flip flopper.

sarah palin is about reforming the party the way that republicans want it reformed. her first act as governor was to sell the former governor's private jets for a profit.

74

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 1:48PM

obama's stuck with Biden now...or is he?

I'd like to see the ultimate stake go thru the heart of the Jobama campaign. Imagine him ejecting Biden as a "mistake" and picking someone else. Nancy Pelosi, maybe? Hillary? Fienstein? His wife?

Anything is possible, you know. I do believe that obama is sitting there scratching his "nappy" head and thinking, "What do I do now?"

The Guy from Delaware

75

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 2:10PM

@22 - still waiting for that list of Obama accomplishments. Is it taking so long because the list is so vast or is it because you still haven't come up with any? You can use the long weekend for this assignment and we'll check back on Tuesday.

76

Posted by DS, Aug 29, 2008 2:13PM

@72 - So you think Obama has a better understanding of the economy than McCain? You think raising taxes right now (or ever)is a good idea?

77

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 2:21PM

DS, in answer to both your questions, yes. Compare the past 8 years to the 8 that preceded them. Then go fly a kite for good measure.

78

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 2:42PM

TGFD - putting quotes around "nappy" doesn't make it less offensive. Also, you're an idiot.

79

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 2:42PM

Should have picked Romney.

80

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 2:48PM

I think Palin may work. I am a woman, and I did not plan on voting for Hillary because she was pro-choice. I was planning on voting for Hillary because she is a woman (although she really may be a man). Palin is as Angelina-Jolie-like as it gets: planes, guns, 5 kids, a beauty queen AND a governor (it's an executive role, you know). If I wanted to be someone, that would be her. Boys, I am voting for McCain.

81

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 2:48PM

#78

He's an "idiot."

82

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 2:52PM

@73
I thought McCain was a "reformer"? Why do you need 2 on the ticket? Alaska has 3 Electoral College votes (so not going to be a "swing state") What exactly does she add to the ticket?

83

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 2:55PM

@82 - she gets the Hillary vote 18 million people.

and she offsets the "Black is cool" vote.

And she's a woman. Women think it's about time.

84

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:04PM

@80 SERIOUSLY?

I am also a woman and find it offensive that your criteria for chosing the president of the USA is his running mate is a woman. THE WOMAN DOES NOT BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION! Do you really want a president (given McCains age and health she could become the prez at some point) who thinks god created the world in 6 days?

TGFD used to be merely annoying until he posted his views on muslims (just before heleft on his summer vacation). Those offensive comments taken with the use of "nappy" make me think that he is nothing more than an ignorant bigot.

85

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:11PM

80,

Is that you Carney?

86

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:13PM

@84: Yes, I can live with a woman president who believes in God (in addition to her other accomplishments/beliefs).

And I would certainly hate it if my president was elected only because he was black: I mean, it's novel, but I'd rather stick with someone who has actual values.

80

87

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:23PM

@86/80-- you dumb bitch, there's no problem believing in god, but she believes god created the world in 6 days, and not in evolution, how it actually happened. you know, science. and how is voting for hilary just 'because she is a woman,' which is what you said, any different than voting for obama 'only because he is black'?

88

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:24PM

Believing in God is a bad thing?

89

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:25PM

@87

If you are black, don't let me stop you from voting for Obama.

But it would be a mistake.

90

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:30PM

Thoughtful@#82...

Alaska has 3 votes, and so does Delaware. You could ask that very same question about Loudmouth, I'm-talking-out-my-ass, Joe Biden.

@#78,@#84...

Two liberal, multi-cultural, pc, closed-minded shrills. Why should I give a damn what you think?

Humorous@#81...

That's actually pretty "funny". I like it.

The Guy from Delaware

91

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:33PM

@87:

Honey,

I bet I know more about science than you do. And I am quite far from being dumb.

I know all about evolution too. And I was raised in a progressive family that prided themselves on their core atheism. And, you know, "how it actually happened. you know, science." -- you don't know crap how it's all happened. Nobody, in fact, has been able to prove this evolution business one way or the other.

And I tell you what else: I am taking my latest paycheque (which is not small), and donating the maximum allowable account on behalf of myself and my husband to the McCain's campaign. Because I want this woman to succeed. Because she deserves it.

80

92

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:38PM

@91 "Nobody, in fact, has been able to prove this evolution business one way or the other."

um. ok.

93

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 3:40PM

Actually, TGFD, if I was as liberal, multi-cultural, and pc as you think, I would cut you more slack on being such a retard.

94

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 3:42PM

@92: that's right. Go back to your grade 5 books.

95

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:01PM

@93 Agreed. (He is not a retard however perhaps somewhat special (in the i need a helmet to walk special) and definately a "proud ignorant".

@91 - go to town with your huge "paycheque" but you are aware that there are limits on personal contributions to political campigns per election ($2300)? Oh yeah, believing in god and believing in evolution are not mutually exclusive beliefs.

@87 - i am a woman and strongly disagree with 80/91 but calling her a "dumb bitch" makes you look ignorant and insecure. Name calling is cheap, argue with her on the merits (or lack thereof) of her position.

96

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:01PM

"Do you really want a president who thinks god created the world in 6 days?"

Since when is that an exclusionary criterion? It doesn't fucking matter. Ever hear of this thing called the 1st amendment?

We've already had a ton of presidents with the same beliefs. The list probably includes George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, etc. They still managed to do their jobs.

97

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 4:10PM

@96 - It's laughable to bring up the 1st amendment; her right to say what she believes is not at all an issue. If someone in the 21st century believes that the world was created by God in six days it says a huge amount about their way of thinking.

98

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:12PM

@95

Thank you. I certainly appreciate point #3 and, actually, point #2 as well: in addition to the individual donations, I'll make a corporate donation on behalf of the company I have created and run.

And, what else is your point?

My point is that Palin is extremely well qualified to be President.

80

99

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:18PM

@97

Mob, you are not correct. In fact, many people in the US believe in God and Creation as per the scriptures. It's fine if this is your choice to believe in whatever you want, but it does not at all means that Palin does not understand issues of importance.

Besides, being all progressive, you must believe in aliens? Well, do you?

100

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 4:24PM

@99 - It shows that she is not a deep thinker. As far as believing in aliens, um, not sure about what it has to do with the other points - or being progressive - but I would guess that there's life elsewhere in the universe, sure. No aliens that have visited us, though.

101

Posted by TheUpwardlyMob, Aug 29, 2008 4:28PM

TGFD excluded, of course.

102

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:36PM

@98, How long have you held the view that Palin is qualified to be president? Be honest now.

@99, If you believe in creationism it absoultely disqualifies from holding the highest office in this country.

103

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:45PM

@102
Go back to Kazakhstan

104

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:55PM

basic BS
MCcain picked Palin for one reason to get the Hillary voters. also kept him away from pro choice picks and pleased the NRA killers.

105

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:58PM

Wow. So someone's non-belief in a 'theory' (as someone with a science degree a may have been forced to study some of that stuff) is criteria enough for exclusion?

Your core belief in evolution and nothing else is a mirror image of a church goer's core belief in creationism and nothing else. Evolution is a 'theory' - a stunningly well-fit one - which describes the progress of life from a certain point onwards.

But NO ONE has been able to figure out what happen before that certain point. Why does this universe exist? Why does any life need to exist? Why it the point of all this?

Those are questions which no theory has been able to conclusively describe. Some people take help of theology to scribe all that to the will of God. Great - all you humanities, gender studies and political history major know a ton of shit about evolution. So give the answers to all of those. Is there any?

I like the arrogance of some folks - completely untrained in anything scientific - who have hijacked the title
of being 'science aware.' Give me a fucking break. The extent of your reverence for science is such that when James Watson - the father of DNA made on off-color comment on race and DNA, you hounded him out of the scientific community.

Science if about open minds and constant reassessment of stuff we for granted as the truth. It is not about 'evolution theory is the final truth and everyone else is a heretic.' That used to be the forte of religion, apparently no more.

106

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 5:14PM

I posted this an hour ago on the other "Sarah Polin Short Oil" thread. I think it belongs here too. It was #59 there.

@#105...Are you the same person who wrote that dynamite piece several places after mine on the other thread? That was great work.


Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 4:06PM

My wife just told me that Polin elected to give birth to a baby with Downes Syndrome. Instead of saying "Why us?" when she was faced with the news, Polin reportedly said, "Why not us?" and proceeded to have the child.

That speaks very loudly about Polin's character. Impressive to anyone except the most jaded of dems.

The Guy from Delaware

107

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 5:45PM

Is it me or is Commenter 105 rather incomprehensible?

108

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 5:55PM

It's not just you, 107.

109

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 6:01PM

@97, @96 here. Go back an reread the 1st amendment. It's more encompassing than free speech. It also covers the separation of church and state. That was my point.

Would you freak out if we had an Orthdox Jewish president who wouldn't drive on the Sabbath? Or how about an Islamic one who turned to Mecca 5 times a day?

It's sad there are people like you who insist that only elitist intellectuals who share your viewpoint be elected. That's not exactly a model of diversity.

I don't care what Palin thinks about what happened 6 billion years ago. I don't care if she thinks that angels filled the ground with oil. All I care about it is what these people plan to do for the USA during the next 4 years. Everything else is just noise.

110

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 6:05PM

First off, Palin has NEVER tried to force anyone into believing creationism as the ultimate truth.

She has wanted to expose school children to both views - which is a perfectly rational thing. Evolution is a great theory which goes a certain distance in explaining life and then stops at a dead end. Creationism probably gives comfort to some people in understanding (believing?) what happened before that. What is the problem in that?

Can any 'elitist intellectual' prove with certainty the true nature of the beginning of the universe and describe why is exists?


111

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 6:05PM

@109
She doesn't think that angels filled the ground with oil, you clown

112

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 6:14PM

@110 - Please recite with me -- Creationism requires a Creator. We have separation of church and state meaning you can't teach about god in public schools.

Why can't kids go learn about god in church? Parents too lazy to take them?

So yes - I don't want creationism taught in public schools. And evolution is not a theory in the way you mean it.

Please spend some time on wikipedia. And seriously - why are you on THIS blog?

Do you really need to know why the universe exists? please

113

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 6:27PM

@112
C'mon: you sound like an under-earning single mother at the bitter end of her thirties.

"Please recite with me": aliens can be Creators. And you seem to believe in aliens just as other "enlightened" folks do above.

Besides. Just get laid. Backoff. Enjoy the creation.

114

Posted by guest, Aug 29, 2008 6:33PM

@113 - nope, you wrong on all counts.


And we still do have the separation of church and state in this country.