So, okay. One of you, we'll call him Reader J. as that is his name, writes to us good and worked up about a matter of dire importance. Normally we like to let you fend for yourselves (we're trying to raise self-sufficient men here) but we get the distinct feeling J's about to blow a gasket and in this case will make an exception in an attempt to talk him down from the ledge. For future reference, boys, please note if you haven't already that it's generally best to call us third or fourth when it comes to emergencies, with Vikram Pandit and RuPaul (203-890-2000) clocking in at one and two. We, like Dick Fuld, are not good in crises. We're just not. Anyway, J. writes:
DealBreaker, At my current office (a law firm) and at my former office (a trading floor), we have occasionally discussed undershirts: crew-neck versus v-neck. I don't know when it became acceptable to wear a dress shirt with a white t-shirt crew neck peeking out at the collar. Was it a response to the death of business formal? Is it a carryover from frat fashion? Or is it that men are no longer comfortable showing any chest hair that might otherwise be visible with an unbuttoned collar? Perhaps there are others out there who witnessed the trend's inception first-hand. Could you post an item in the Banking Culture section regarding this? Thanks, J
According to Carney, "in some circles it's seen as risqué and trashy not to wear an undershirt." And I'm sure a lot of people would argue the display of chest hair could potentially paralyze an otherwise promising career. However, the case study after the jump demonstrates that for some people, and only if you are sex on a stick like the subject that follows, letting your curly q's stick out can be the ticket to the big leagues. Bow chica wow wow.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:42PM
Agreed. V-necks unless you're wearing a tie.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:43PM
I find button down collars to be worse than a tshirt under a dress shirt.
who in their right mind would wear a button down collar shirt to work? They look so bush league
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:50PM
I persoanlly don't want to see some guys hairy chest peaking out from his shirt so I do not mind the crew necks without a tie if that is the reason and I agree with the button down collar comment...it's something an engineer would wear
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Aug 25, 2008 3:50PM
@2, that's fucked up. What about the RL Polos? While I agree that buttons on the collar can be perceived as "bush league," one must fasten the collar when riding a horse and hitting shit with a mallet (or using 43 keyboard shortcuts/minute). Agreed?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:52PM
I agree that the crew neck popping into view is not a good look, but the v-neck undershirt is very seventies.
I violate this aesthetic, but as a prop trader, I don't have to see clients.
Anyone who looks like they are dressing for an MBA interview may be projecting more style than substance. I mean, sure, appearances are correlated with pay, but at the end of the day, nothing is better than an out-of-the-park information ratio (not even basic hygiene ...)
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:52PM
Hah -- my managing director just stopped in and he's wearing a buttondown collared sdhirt, complaining about how he had to buy a second ski house because he couldn't have his kids dogs at the other one.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:52PM
vnecks are down there with guinea tees
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:54PM
I still have the lingering question of why you didn't provide Vik's phone number? as if you expect us to still have it!
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Aug 25, 2008 3:55PM
(for clarification, "RL Polos" should read, "RL button-downs with Polo insignia." Pardone.)
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:55PM
Agree with 2. The button down collar in the office makes you look like a college kid who doesn't know any better. Which sucks when the guy is 35.
I have noticed more schmucks wearing a v-neck with a tie. Far shittier looking that either the crew neck without tie or the button down. I'm no GanAlYst or Mr. Pink, but can't help but think they would agree.
-NomMe
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:56PM
only thing worse than the crew neck is the colored crew neck. That has back office written all over it.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:58PM
Visible crew neck screams midwestern accountant to me. True players wear no undershirt at all.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 3:59PM
wife beater
tie chain
french cuffs
fucking money.
Posted by GinNTonic , Aug 25, 2008 4:00PM
Umm... how about no shirt underneath. It's fing 85 degrees outside.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:00PM
Seriously, how old is this dude with his v-neck. Why doesn't he just wear a wife-beater to work?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:00PM
Crew neck with a tie.
V-neck with undone top button.
If you wear a wifebeater, you would be best served to tear it into long strips, tie said strips together and proceed to hang yourself in the nearest bathroom stall.
It is settled.
Posted by chad , Aug 25, 2008 4:03PM
"I have noticed more schmucks wearing a v-neck with a tie."
this isnt even possible. How can anyone even say they don't like seeing v necks, you can't even see them as THEY ARE UNDER THE SHIRT!!!!
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:06PM
A better question would be who wears a yellow golf short with a blazer?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:09PM
sorry, yellow golf shirt with a blazer
Posted by Joseph di Jersey City , Aug 25, 2008 4:10PM
How about short sleeve shirts with crew neck t-shirts. They are all the rage among academic scientists!
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:10PM
@19/18-- Steve Cohen.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:11PM
Glad someone pointed out this bs that's been going on for far too long. There's no reason why a white t-shirt should be visible on someone wearing slacks and a button-down. The entire point of the v-neck is to be able to wear an undershirt WITHOUT it being seen (why? because, egad, guys sweat - except for those using clinical strength Degree). Thanks J for bringing this up.
Posted by girl , Aug 25, 2008 4:12PM
This thread is more flaming than the 8th circle of hell...
but for the record, after all that seamless web, you guys would be better off wearing training bras (with or sans tie, that's the beauty of it).
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:13PM
I completely disagree, nothing says "gym coach" more than the wearing of a V-neck t-shirt.
Posted by gatekeeper , Aug 25, 2008 4:13PM
@17. BULLSHIT
Nothing is worse than a V-neck with a tie when your dress shirt is white. You can see that garbage throwback v-neck collar underneath the shirt and almighty does it look trashy as fuck.
Crew Neck with a Tie
V-neck or nothing with a unbuttoned first button dress shirt
Button down collar ONLY if its classy. None of that Chaps shit.
Posted by gatekeeper , Aug 25, 2008 4:13PM
@17. BULLSHIT
Nothing is worse than a V-neck with a tie when your dress shirt is white. You can see that garbage throwback v-neck collar underneath the shirt and almighty does it look trashy as fuck.
Crew Neck with a Tie
V-neck or nothing with a unbuttoned first button dress shirt
Button down collar ONLY if its classy. None of that Chaps shit.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:14PM
Why not just pop your collar?
O.k. not really. In all seriousness, I don't get why you guys care so much about the intricate details of fashion. I personally, don't get why everyone has to "dress up" so much when they come to work anyway, I think jeans and a nice shirt would be just fine. Suits are so overrated. But that is just my personal opinion, which means nothing.
Also, depending on the guy, showing a little chest hair really gets me going, if you know what I mean. NOT like the guy pictured above.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:16PM
@27: "showing a little chest hair really gets me going"
I hope that you are a girl.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:17PM
Hmmm...
Going commando anyone?
Posted by KLW , Aug 25, 2008 4:19PM
If your chest hair and sweat can't be contained within a normal shirt, an undershirt is not going to make that much of a difference, and looks tacky as hell. Invest in a better weight shirt and Botox your armpits if you're going to be girls about it.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:20PM
To be clear, #22 has it right. The point of the v-neck shirt is so that the undershirt's collar isn't visible.
So really the match-up should be between the crew-neck undershirt and no undershirt, in both cases when a dress shirt is worn with its collar unbuttoned.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:20PM
@ 28 - Yes, I am a girl. Guys who do not embrace their masculinity, and shave thier chests kind of make me wonder. It is NOT sexy when that shit starts to grow out and becomes stubble.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:22PM
Charles Finch, a true snob, likes the button down shirts:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7ef7ae32-70ae-11dd-b514-0000779fd18c.html
Yeah, yeah...I was bored this w/e and read all the sections.
Posted by Master of None , Aug 25, 2008 4:23PM
@2, 6, and 10
Button-down collars don't look great with ties, but spread collars look terrible without ties (especially with sweaters, which should be worn ONLY with button-down dress shirts).
American men of the fifties and sixties (i.e. the golden age of mens' style) generally only wore spread collars if they wore a suit. While most would probably have scoffed at the idea of wearing anything BUT a suit to the office, if business casual had been around they would have laughed at any asshole who wore a spread collar with no tie.
Then they would have gone to have a cocktail. At 10am.
Regarding undershirts, it's very simple: You wear an undershirt if you find it more comfortable, or if you sweat. If you choose to wear one, however, it should NEVER be visible at the collar or anywhere else.
In the South, where air conditioning is a relatively new technology, officemates who chose to go sans undershirt were said to be able to "keep their cool."
Posted by KLW , Aug 25, 2008 4:23PM
@32: FUCKING AMEN. Unless Dolce & Gabbana are paying you to do it, leave the hair removal to us. And if you care that much about it, go the extra mile and wax. Shaving is the WORST.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:25PM
I favor no undershirt/wear
Posted by CNote , Aug 25, 2008 4:25PM
@13
You spank it to Ben Affleck in Boiler Room. Go ahead, admit it. We all know already.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:26PM
What is the proper ball-shaving etiquette?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:27PM
Nah, still think V-neck is too Magnum PI.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:27PM
Nah, still think V-neck is too Magnum PI.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:27PM
Next hot topic is gonna be: briefs or boxers?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:29PM
everyone knows boxer-briefs win
Posted by Master of None , Aug 25, 2008 4:29PM
Also, what is absolutely NOT acceptable is to wear button-down shirts and NOT BUTTON THE COLLAR. Some guys (generally first-years) do this in an effort to effect the look of a spread collar, but I cringe every time I see it.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:30PM
@ 38 - you should always ask their permission first
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:30PM
So what type of collar/undershirt combo does one use when wearing a bolo tie?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:30PM
@38: Use a beard trimmer.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:31PM
@ 38 - None.
@ 41 - Boxer briefs.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:31PM
I prefer about a #2 for my mine.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:34PM
@41 - boxers for back-office, briefs for sales. Traders go commando
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:37PM
@49 I sure hope your a chick with that kind of info.
Posted by HAM05 , Aug 25, 2008 4:38PM
this is such a fucking pet peeve of mine.
the rules as i see them:
a) if you don't wear a tie to work, a button-down non-iron dress shirt in a heavyweight fabric looks the best. you may scoff, but brooks non-iron slim fit are still my faves. under no circumstances should you wear an undershirt, thats for pussies. even if you sweat. i pit out like a mofo - all it does is bring the girls to the yard.
b) spread collars look terrible with no tie unless the shirt it really stiff. nothing worse than them hanging asymetrically on your neck.
Posted by EricM , Aug 25, 2008 4:42PM
First the man purse, now undershirts. What's next... blue socks, are they ever acceptable?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:42PM
One thought...fashion changes...
Just as jeans were once for laborers and khakis were once for soldiers - things change.
Obviously the V neck has been going away. I've actually been amazed to see button collars with ties in the 45-55 year old crowd but obviously that's changing too.
As far as not buttoning a button down collar...that's not style and never will be, that's inability to properly dress oneself in the morning.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:44PM
Its so cute watching the goombas defend the v-neck. Its a glorified wife beater for people with cold arms and looks pathetic. if you need one, crew actually looks a little classy...
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:44PM
@ericm-- there was no debate about the murse. the tag 'With A Side Compartment For His Balls' made that obvious.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:45PM
Yes the ladies love that sweaty smell oozing from your pores and the expanding stains under those arms. How do you fight 'em all off.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:48PM
It's called Pheromones and it's biology.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:49PM
@51 - I am glad someone finally agrees with me about spread collars. My office is business casual, and all the young guys keep buying spread collar shirts with French cuffs that look retarted without a suit and tie. Just because you spent more on your formal shirt and you want everyone to see it, doesn't mean it is appropriate for casual wear.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:51PM
thanks for all of your inane comments. i don't have to read this crap anymore.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:54PM
@59- then don't. no need to inform us though, just leave.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:54PM
@18 - When you can pay some jerk-off 7 digits for a shark frozen (and supposedly leaking) in formaldehyde and bang your LPs for a 50% performance fee you can where whatever the heck you want.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:55PM
More importantly, please do not wear pleated pants. Flat front only.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:56PM
I meant "wear".
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:59PM
The answer is...
Wear whatever the fuck you want. I don't care about you. If you look like shit it's your problem.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:59PM
@18: re: (who wears a yellow polo with a Jacket?)
None other than Ted Knight in Caddy Shack - the epitome of class!
Crew neck with dress shirt, tie or no tie... no one wants to see chest hair OR a V-neck outline.
Settled.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:59PM
The answer is...
Wear whatever the fuck you want. I don't care about you. If you look like shit it's your problem - Junior Johnson
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 4:59PM
The answer is...
Wear whatever the fuck you want. I don't care about you. If you look like shit it's your problem - Junior Johnson
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:00PM
2 button or 3 button?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:02PM
i have always worn wife-beaters...
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:03PM
@68, 2 button is more classy.
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Aug 25, 2008 5:04PM
Question: Where does one find nice suits on the cheap?
Go.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:06PM
Who makes the best modern suit? I think Hugo Boss does a good job, but are there any others?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:07PM
Guy at my office wears a beater that looks like a wrestling singlet. Also wears poly cotton blend shirts that are opaque like wax paper that someone wrapped a greasy sandwich in. It's horrible.
He also wears the tie chain. I wonder if guys like that walk around looking at all his co-workings thinking, "these guys have zero style."
If your v-neck is showing through your shirt, buy a better shirt.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:08PM
@ 71- Wait until June & January sale at Brooks Brothers if you're concerned w/ $$$$- You can get some nice looking, conservative cut stuff for half price. That's there blowout sale. Picked up a GF, one of their better ones, for like $750 or something.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:10PM
@74 - Brooks Brothers uses a very conservaive approach to building suits.
Go with it if you prefer baggy, roomy suits. Otherwise I'd go with Hugo Boss
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:14PM
@ 75 yeah, re-read his post, BB's not his style. Still decent looking stuff for the $$$.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:16PM
What a bunch of girls. Why are you letting the homosexuals dictate what you wear to work
Ooh, 2-button is gauche. Then it's oh, 3-button is so early 2000s.
Perhaps you should focus on substance a bit more than the latest issue of GQ.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:18PM
Charles Tyrwhitt makes some damn nice suits.
Posted by HAM05 , Aug 25, 2008 5:20PM
substance is for pikers
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:23PM
@ 77- Some of us can handle both substance & dressing ourselves appropriately.
Your tie somewhere around your shirt's 5th button from the top? Thought so.
Oh, and rubber soled shoes are not businesswear.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:24PM
Barneys is having a warehouse sale as we read these retarded comments. Go, spend money, get the credit card to save 10%, make America a better place.
As to crew, hell yeah. Always. Sweat off the subway is not good for the career. Neither is a polyblend v-neck.
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Aug 25, 2008 5:26PM
What about Express? Is that a poor choice?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:27PM
@80 - Hope your boyfriend approves of your ensemble. Does your man-bag match your shoes too?
Kiss kiss
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:28PM
@82 - Express has a nice modern cut, but kind of cheap fabric
Overall not a bad value for the money, but I'd rather consider buying it as a casual suit
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:28PM
@82. Yes.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:31PM
@83- Get a clue. Look at your boss's boss's boss- the guy that actually runs trade support. Emulate him. You might have a chance if you do.
Thanks.
Posted by Anal_yst , Aug 25, 2008 5:31PM
No homo, but I just have to throw it out there that COLLAR STAYS are a must. I see tons of schmucks walking around with limp collars by 10am, that sh!t looks seriously amateur. I don't care how much starch your dry cleaner uses, esp in summer, you're gonna be all limp-collared by noon, latest.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:33PM
Wife beater's are for f-ing jabronis. Anyone in banking wearing a beater probably won't make it far...no joke.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 5:35PM
@86. Nothing against dressing well, or wearing quality fabrics. But the focus on fashion in this thread (as opposed to quality) betrays the latent homosexuality rampant on the trading desks.
Was that butt-slap a congratulations.... or an invitation to dinner.
The fashionistas will find out soon enough.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:01PM
I never wear a f'n t-shirt, V or crew.
Button-down, oxford cloth, long-sleeve dress shirts with button-cuffs for wear with a club-stripe tie only. Shirt is white, pale blue, or blue/white stripe only.
Polo shirts in pastel colors only, 100% cotton.
Navy-blue, 2-button Blazer, wool, with Club crest and 18k gold club buttons.
Cotton slacks, cuffed, Khaki, stone, white, or brick-red only.
D-ring club webbed belts only.
Very little chest hair, good tan, & nice ankles so I can get away with no socks. Dark brown boat shoes with white soles.
I never have trouble with the chicks.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:07PM
Crap now I know why LEH, Citi, Mer losing so much $$$..you "guys" were too busy being fashion police than preserving profit. It's a f***ing trading floor..who cares..make your P/L then go home and primp on your own time.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:08PM
you know you've made it in life when you don't give a fuck what you look like.
I've got a killer job and a hot wife and I'm not trying to impress anyone. I wear the same suits I wore 7 years ago and I'm not going to switch them all so they have pleats and look dated but I don't care.
For the record: I wear my shirts unbuttoned with no undershirt. If someone is offended by a bit of chest hair, they can go fuck themselves.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:09PM
@90 = complete fag
Posted by DS , Aug 25, 2008 6:15PM
92 - Do you have a son?
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Aug 25, 2008 6:16PM
"Very little chest hair, good tan, & nice ankles so I can get away with no socks."
Yikes! Creepy...
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:28PM
92,
Yeah, that sounds like the way to hang on to your "hot wife". She may stick around for your money, but once you've let yourself go she'll be getting banged by the yoga instructor like a screen door in a hurricane. Probably already is.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:42PM
Career suicide = blue shirt with white collar and cuffs.
A fellow I know answers my question about his wearing a T shirt under a dress shirt in Houston by saying it soaks up the sweat.
Almost all the gasoline traders I knew in Houston before biz casual came in, wear pleated pants and cheap suits made by some guy from Hong Kong who comes to town every so often and "custom fits' you in a hotel room. It used to be that the only way you could talk to a Chevron products trader in person was at a titty bar or in the Hong Kong guy's hotel room while you waitied on your suit measurement.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:43PM
@80, completely disagree. both Ferragamo and Bruno Magli make rubber soled shoes that are nice enough for the strictest formal environments and are the most comfortable you will ever wear
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:50PM
@97 - what's wrong with blue shirt with white collar and cuffs?
It looks classy
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:53PM
@96:
I'm really not concerned with the yoga instructor banging my hot wife because, you see, she is fictional.
DELUSION AND INCORPORATION. THAT'S HOW DELAWARE DOES IT.
That Dude From Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 6:53PM
@96:
I'm really not concerned with the yoga instructor banging my hot wife because, you see, she is fictional. Only.
DELUSION AND INCORPORATION. THAT'S HOW DELAWARE DOES IT.
That Dude From Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 7:02PM
@92 -- does your hot wife know your gay?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 7:12PM
Polo shirts go well with blazers.
A f'n t-shirt that is visible beneath any other kind of shirt gives a look that says "I'm a clown".
The Guy from Delaware
p.s. The double poster 100/101 is a moron. 93 is an idiot.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 7:35PM
Do you know the best thing about being a pedophile?
My cock looks HUGE in the hands of a three year old.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 7:54PM
A period outside of the quotation marks indicates the writer possesses a British education or "is a moron."
Bravo, Dover.
That Dude from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 8:25PM
#32 Post a pic.
SPODE
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 9:07PM
@104...
You must be the same dipshit assface clown who has masqueraded as me before. Your idiotic comment is inconsistent with my other posts.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by Bulging Bracket , Aug 25, 2008 9:24PM
Holy mother of god. Nothing brings out the commenters like a fashion argument.
Handbags at dawn ladies!
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 10:53PM
So blue shirt with white cuffs and collar = no good?
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 11:29PM
collar pins.
Posted by guest , Aug 25, 2008 11:37PM
Hey, TGFD, TOGFD here. Glad to see you mixing it up with the yuppie wanna be types as usual. Missed that while you were on the cruise. About dressing: Are you sure that a crew Tee with an open collar button down is "clownish"? I've been doing that for years under the "corp casual" banner - don't wear suits to work any longer. Once you get to/near F-U money, why bother, eh? Just saying......
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 8:26AM
What about white shirt with blue cuffs and collar?
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 9:13AM
TOGFD@111...
Thanks for the "welcome back".
Your "crew Tee with open-collar button-down" is the least "clownish" of all the t-shirt / shirt combinations.
Maybe you don't have to wear that big red ball on your nose, but you should keep the curly orange wig and the oversized shoes. Just kidding.
The Guy from Delaware
p.s. Who is this "Dude from Delaware" poster? Any person who's really from Delaware wouldn't make disparaging comments about his fair state. Must be another Delaware wannabee.
@112...That combination requires the wig, the shoes, and the nose ball.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 10:13AM
@ SPODE - #32 here. Why? No.
TGFD - Brick-red slacks? Ick. With a blue blazer? What are you, a sailor? The webbed belt is also questionable. And not wearing socks with anything other than sandals is wrong.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 10:40AM
Don't know where to begin here...
Re the undershirts: vneck when not wearing a tie, crew under a shirt and tie. Problem is that its sometimes difficult to keep your crews and v's under control. I admit, I've been guilty of putting a v under a shirt and tie, when I'm in a hurry and cant find a crew. (Alright, so take away my gay license..). As for no undershirt cause its warm: the undershirt actually wicks the moisture away from you skin and thus keeps you cooler than no shirt.
In my office on casual days the style seems to be interesting Pink or Tyrwhitt spread collar shirts, nice flat front slacks. Like almost anything, looks really good on a good looking, well built guy. For someone less lucky in the looks and build department (be honest here), do something less showy.
As for the Barney's warehouse sale (see 81), totally agree. Its on now, they have something for every body type (from Hickey for you husky boys to Varvatos for the slim ones) and excellent prices. No dressing rooms, so wear boxers so you can try on in the aisles. I was there two saturdays ago - could hardly keep my eyes on the suits, what with all the trying on going on around me.
Finally, dont scrimp on the shoes. So many cheep shoes, which you can spot in 5 seconds. Buy Alden's. No Johnson Murphy. Allen Edmonds is barely acceptable - go for the extra few bucks. Cap toed lace ups with suits, low vamp loafers for casual days. Shell cordovan (thats a type of leather, not the color), around $600 but they last 10 years if you take care of em. Get em at CitiShoes on 55th and Park, for 10% off list, 15% when they have a sale.
GAnalYst
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 10:46AM
WTF is wrong with you people? This is Wall St, not Madison Ave. Go make some money.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 11:16AM
GAnalYst is spot on. Dammit, you're giving truth to the bromide about gays and fashion.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 11:16AM
ooops, looks like all the guys here have gone gay! I will take a masculine, slightly rough around the edges guy any day over overly primped gays who worry about a little hair showing. god, all of you are turning into girls!
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 11:24AM
118 Not so sure you mean that. Would you like a guy with a stomach a little too big? How bout one that doesn't cut his toenails often enough? Or wears Abercrombie & Fitch over the age of 20? Just saying that by doing a few simple things correctly you can look great, without being obsessive. GAnalYst
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 11:26AM
I don't know what's more amusing, the people who love to talk about this shit, or the people who absolutely can't stand it
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 11:58AM
Do those Alden's come with a safety toe?
Bubba
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 12:01PM
@114...
Sandals? You're a real dipshit. I hope you don't wear them to work because they really say "clown".
Yes, I am a sailor. That's where I was on my recent 3-week vacation.
The brick-red cotton slacks are "Nantucket Reds". I got two pair at Murray's about 15 years ago. They wear like iron.
D-ring webbed belts are good.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 12:02PM
119. Where did I say that big stomach, uncut nails or juvenile wear is acceptable. Common grooming is not the same as obsessing over a few chest hair. Is it not enough that we girls have to deal with shaving and waxing all the time? I completely fail to understand why a guy has to shave his chest hair? So gay! When a guys spends more time than a girl over primping, then it is a problem IMO. As for guys who are really gay, go ahead and primp away!
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 12:14PM
123 Hey, I agree, its silly to obsess over these things. I can tell you though that there are many women in my office that screetch when confronted with body hair (esp on the back). You could be in the minority on that one. That's why some guys shave. Plus, it accentuates their pecs and abs.
You do however need to adopt a more enlightened 21st century view on gays - they're really not that different than any other guys. Wall St is filled with them in fact, at some very high levels.
GAnalYst
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 12:16PM
@ TGFD - No need for the name calling. I should have clarified myself. If you are a MALE, you should wear socks with ALMOST all shoes, except sandals, or if you can get away with it... not all men can, even if they are the below-the-ankle type socks. You are really dating yourself if you refuse to wear sandals. Women, on the other hand can get away without wearing socks whenever they want.
Just saying your wardrobe makes you sound like a sailor, which you are, so, you proved my point. I still stand by my statement that red pants should not be worn.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 12:24PM
125 Make hard and fast rules at your peril. You just need a good eye for what works.
Loafers, no sox can be a great look with casual pants in the summer. Not to work, but everywhere else. And you need to be the right type: clean cut typically. I've also seen hipsters (pale, reed thin guys, that live far too many stops out on the L train) looking great with pants that are low and tight on the calves and no sox and lace up dress shoes. GAnalYst
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 12:42PM
@125...
Thanks for the clarification, and I withdraw the "dipshit" remark; however, I think that you may still be a clown. I'm not sure though.
As for "dating myself", nearly everyone on db knows my age, and I do "refuse to wear sandals." In fact, I've never worn them. I don't wear jeans either.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 1:03PM
Guy from Delaware, do you find it surprising that knowing nothing else about you, almost everyone who reads the comments section on this website thinks you are a complete asshole based just on your personality?
I bet you would find that people in your personal life also feel the same way, but unfortunately for them they cannot express themselves anonymously.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 1:28PM
Well said 128
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 1:53PM
@#128...
Over the past 5 months, I've read many negative comments on db about my age and about my (presumed) physical appearance that have nothing really to do with "personality". Most of those comments seem to be from a small number of cranky posters.
Also, I have shared a number of things about myself with db readers.
As for my "personal life", I suggest that your "bet" is wrong.
Lastly, this thread began about T-shirts and had already morphed into other areas of fashion by the time I first saw it. I attempted to keep my comments on topic, but I got sidetracked when I sensed that some posters were getting on my case again.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 2:10PM
TGFD is the largest douchebag commenter on DB. Trying to carve out some small silly piece of internet/DB notoriety.
Funny thing is he isn't successful, whereas the Mayo guy/gal has actually made some serious traction!!! That has to really chap his *sshole.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 3:03PM
@#131...
The fact that you're consistently commenting about me somehow defeats your premise that TGFD "isn't successful".
I have quite enough "internet/DB notoriety" already, thank you.
Fact is, I don't really give a damn, and you sound like the "douchebag".
BTW, are you that Mayo clown, out there promoting yourself?
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 3:05PM
I am not the Mayo kid. And if you didn't care, you wouldn't dignify my post with a response.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 3:10PM
@133 Nothing has been dignified here
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 3:49PM
What do you guys do about stains?
I know a few people who keep contingency clothing in their office in case of a coffee or lunch malfunction, but most of the guys where I work at UBS don't have any clothing backup plan.
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 3:59PM
135 Are you serious? In 20 years of working I've never personally had a problem and witnessed only one. A guy in my office once dumped an entire cup of coffee on his chest. He took a quick walk to Brooks Bros or some such place and bought a shirt and tie.
Are you also stockpiling food?
Posted by guest , Aug 26, 2008 4:11PM
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/is-goldman-sachs-losing-its-halo/
Mike Mayo?
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 7:40AM
Button down? ONLY if the collar lies flat.
Button down with a tie? Okay IF the collar lies flat but try to avoid.
Straight collar without a tie? Yes, as long as it has stays.
Spread collar without a tie? No.
V-neck? No.
Polos? If your playing golf that day.
Exposed white crew neck? Only when its cold out. Better to see a collar than the nips.
Exposed colored crew neck? Only if you work on copiers, in IT, or something else where you don't think for a living.
I've had good luck lately with the JWN trim-fit, no-iron shirts. Less collar creep and they do both ties and no ties really well.
AND KEEP THOSE CALFS COVERED!!!!! One mistake there trumps ten failures of the above. Gross.
Cheers.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 7:40AM
Button down? ONLY if the collar lies flat.
Button down with a tie? Okay IF the collar lies flat but try to avoid.
Straight collar without a tie? Yes, as long as it has stays.
Spread collar without a tie? No.
V-neck? No.
Polos? If you're playing golf that day.
Exposed white crew neck? Only when its cold out. Better to see a collar than the nips.
Exposed colored crew neck? Only if you work on copiers, in IT, or something else where you don't think for a living.
I've had good luck lately with the JWN trim-fit, no-iron shirts. Less collar creep and they do both ties and no ties really well.
AND KEEP THOSE CALFS COVERED!!!!! One mistake there trumps ten failures of the above. Gross.
Cheers.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 7:53AM
Button down? ONLY if the collar lies flat.
Button down with a tie? Okay IF the collar lies flat but try to avoid.
Straight collar without a tie? Yes, as long as it has stays.
Spread collar without a tie? No.
V-neck? No.
Polos? If you're playing golf that day.
Exposed white crew neck? Only when its cold out. Better to see a collar than the nips.
Buttons? Two.
Rubber soles? Only outdoors.
Exposed colored crew neck? Only if you work on copiers, in IT, or something else where you don't think for a living.
Get in shape. No clothes look good on a fat body.
I try not to use the d-bag term, even for TGFD, but anybody with a murse gets one.
AND KEEP THOSE CALFS COVERED!!!!! One mistake there trumps ten failures of the above. Gross.
I've had good luck lately with the JWN trim-fit, no-iron shirts. Less collar creep and they do both ties and no ties really well. A lot of shirt for the $.
Cheers.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 9:49AM
@123. Only shave the top portion that can be seen while wearing a v-neck shirt and trim everywhere else. Who cares what the guys think. Do it to bring in the ladies.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 9:54AM
Obviously most here probably go by fairly 'modern' rules in dress. I'm just shy of 30 and wear Brooks, Tyrwhitt or Oxxford suits, a few Dunhills if I feel like having my balls crushed all day, suspenders instead of belts and mostly Allen Edmonds or Churchs for shoes. Funny but most girls find the classic look pretty appealing. Personally, I find it comfortable (except for the English cut suits, even though they are 'proper'). So as many here have said, I don't really give a f*ck what I look like in someone else's view, especially the receeding hairline, shiny forehead, square-toed dress shoe wearing chotches that loiter in most of the clubs, at least around here. Point is that I do make F-U money, have a nice yet conservative car, a nice yet conservative house in an old neighborhood and dress nice yet conservative. No worries.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 9:56AM
138 -140 What's JWN? I surmise from the "cheers" that you might be in London, but still don't recognize it.
141 Not so sure there. Trimming is no slam dunk. Some ladies (and a lot of guys too) actually like hair. GAnalYst
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 10:00AM
142 I'm detecting some serious inconsistencies here. 1) Suspenders are conservative? 2) You wear Tyrwhitt or Oxxford suits? The former are like $700, the later $2,700. Sounds odd to have both in yr closet. 3) Ditto for Allen Edmonds and Church's. Like saying I buy sweaters at either WalMart or Barneys.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 10:19AM
Too long. Didn't read.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 10:26AM
144;
Certainly no problem with having a range of suits to choose from. What does the price matter? Besides, the Tyrwhitts I have were not bought from their mail order crap catalogue, I had them done at Jermyn Street. And yes, suspenders are conservative, what are you smoking? As for shoes, AEs or Churchs can be worn daily and will take loads of abuse. Just because I have one $3K suit in the closet doesn't mean the rest of them need to be. Variety!
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 10:27AM
144;
Certainly no problem with having a range of suits to choose from. What does the price matter? Besides, the Tyrwhitts I have were not bought from their mail order crap catalogue, I had them done at Jermyn Street. And yes, suspenders are conservative, what are you smoking? As for shoes, AEs or Churchs can be worn daily and will take loads of abuse. Just because I have one $3K suit in the closet doesn't mean the rest of them need to be. Variety!
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 10:31AM
suspenders are as conservative as white collar shirts. Mozillo wears them both. As does Trump. Nuf said.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 10:33AM
143 - JWN is the ticker for Nordstrom's.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 12:38PM
Hahaha douchebag you are under 30 and you wear suspenders? Jesus H. Christ.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 1:39PM
Cheers@#140...
WTF is a "murse"? Do you mean a nurse?
For the rest of you...
Barney's has to be the most over-rated, trendy shop in NYC. Idiots shop there. "Fools and their money are soon parted" comes to mind. The only person who gets a good deal at Barney's is the clown who owns the place.
Back in 2006, a chick bought us a gift from that shithole, some kind of decorative item. My wife & I thanked her for the generosity because we know the damn thing was expensive, and we didn't want to hurt her feelings. We're still not sure what to do with that gift because it looks like something that was made by some elementary-school kid as an arts-and-crafts project.
$3K suits are a f'n joke; so are $700 ones. Save your f'n money; you may need it some day. That Wall St gravy train may not last forever. FYI, $3K suits really don't look much better than properly selected, on-sale $225 ones. You're f'n hallucinating if you actually believe they do.
I got a very nice 2-button, tan, 100% camel hair blazer with brown leather buttons for $213 on sale at Jos. A. Banks here in Greenville last year. It fits beautifully, and I get a lot of complements when I wear it.
BTW, My "Navy-blue, 2-button Blazer, wool, with Club crest and 18k gold club buttons" has 4 buttons on each sleeve. I wouldn't have it any other way.
NoWorries@#142...
While I'm on a roll, and since you seem like an egotistical, smug bastard, I’ll throw this in too:
Since the DB clowns are obsessed with looks, I'll add that I'm very thankful & blessed because that "receding-hairline, shiny-forehead" look hasn't applied to me; however, my "full head of hair" does show some slight grayness at the temples. And yes, I too have my share of F-U money. Finally, if 30 years from now you look as good as I do today, you'll have endured well. I suspect, however, that your "no worries" life will evolve into that "receding-hairline, shiny-forehead" existence you so fear and condemn.
You're a f'n clown who lives in a row-house flat. That's all.
@#150..."Suspenders." "Douchebag." Sounds like #142.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 2:01PM
151 On day one that $225 suit may look good. But give it a year and a few trips to the cleaners and it probably looks like s**t, so it therefore not really a bargain.
Re Barney's. Don't generalize based on a trinket from their gift shop. They have floors and floors of clothes designed to suit every taste, a lot of it actually a good value.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 2:11PM
151 Your observation re barneys is irrelevant because the chatter is not about the main store but instead their 2x annual warehouse sale, where the selections are huge, everthing is marked to half price or less and which is a good opportunity to build a wardrobe.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 4:34PM
This TGFD person is devolving into a fictional character, sort of like Patrick Bateman. This post at #151 was what finally pushed it over the edge for me. (I know slow learner, state school). There's no way that people like this actually exist do they?
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 4:49PM
151 - "murse" is a man purse. It was early in the thread. DB on steroids.
Posted by Bulging Bracket , Aug 27, 2008 5:12PM
The funny part is that my shirts cost more than TGFD's suits. So do most of my ties. Of course they still look great after years of wear. Men's Wearhouse, not so much. Then there's the fact that a proper shirt and suit feel comfortable and look great, while MW crap looks and feels like hell - there's a reason why IT and copier boys don't like dressing up, their "suits" really are scratchy and uncomfortable.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 5:16PM
@#155...Thanks for the explanation of "murse". Man purse? WTF is that? I don't have one of those f'n things, but thanks anyway.
@#154...I very real. Right here in Delaware. BTW, Who is Patrick Bateman?
@#152,#153...
Barney's is still too over-priced and trendy. I took a look at the website and saw a lot of shit there. My personal favorite is their "Tribeca Hat" for men at $149 on sale. Hahaha.
I'd still take ten $250 suits over one $2.5K suit any day.
I personally didn't see any "good value" there, just hype for the fashionista crowd.
Thanks for your messages though.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 5:20PM
OK, "Who is Patrick Bateman?"
Come on. Levin = TGFD.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 5:21PM
the Barneys website is in fact filled with trendy stuff - that you can sell without trying on. Nothing that needs a fitting. Get yrself out of DE and go to the store, or better yet the warehouse sale, and then judge. The selection is like 100,000x what you see on line.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 6:03PM
@#159...
Check out Barney's Tribeca Hat. What a desirable piece of mens wear that is. A real "wardrobe builder".
http://www.barneys.com/Mens/MENS05,default,sc.html?start=70&sz=10
Mr.Bulge@#156...
Sounds like you have experience with "MW crap"; You gave yourself away. Seriously, Barney's and other pricey stores do need clowns like you to buy their expensive lines. After all, how would they survive? How would they maintain their margins? A $165 tie and a $235 shirt don't do a damn thing for you except stroke your extended ego. "Feels comfortable and looks great" is bullshit.
@#158...OK, who is he?
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 6:14PM
the main character in "American Psycho", a novel about a Wall Street guy that goes crazy. Don't they have google in DE?
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 6:17PM
from wikipedia: Set in Manhattan and beginning on April Fools' Day 1987, American Psycho spans roughly two years in the life of wealthy young investment banker Patrick Bateman. Bateman narrates his everyday activities, from his daily life among the upper-class elite of New York to his forays into murder by nightfall.
Bateman comes from a privileged background, having graduated from Philips Exeter Academy, Harvard and then Harvard Business School. He works as a vice president at a Wall Street investment bank and lives in an expensive Manhattan apartment on the Upper West Side. He embodies the 1980s yuppie culture. Through present tense stream-of-consciousness narrative he describes his conversations with colleagues in bars and cafes, his office, and nightclubs, satirizing the vanity of Manhattan yuppies.
Posted by guest , Aug 27, 2008 6:35PM
@#161,#162...
Thank you for the Patrick Bateman explanation. I'm no "Patrick Bateman", but I'll have to watch the movie. Sounds good.
BTW, believe it or not, back in the 60's I had a scholarship to Exeter. Didn't go. Selected another boarding school instead.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Aug 30, 2008 11:06AM
A tank top (wife beater) undershirt is by far the most comfortable. A lot of guys at the office wear them.
Posted by guest , Sep 09, 2008 2:17PM
#150;
Better than those open collar Hollister "I'm a puppet douchebag" shirts you're wearing to your job working the customer service counter at the Verizon Wireless store.