Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 7:49PM

Bess/ep
What no live blogging of W's speech to the nation tonight?
You two have a life o/s DB?

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 8:59PM

@2

W is irrelevent. Can you imagine trying to explain this stuff to him?

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 9:12PM

Is anyone else watching this?

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 9:33PM

Bush is fucking shameful. Capitalist only under "normal circumstances". What a joke.

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 9:51PM

Wait, Bush addressing the nation is supposed to REDUCE the sense of panic?

I'm watching him speak but all I can hear is "an invasion of Iraq will practically pay for itself!"

Idiot.

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 9:53PM

Any simple ideas on how to prevent things like AIG from controlling so much of the credit default swap market?

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 10:03PM

Did the president make you want to change your mind?

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 10:23PM

Change your mind about what? If you're in banking in any form &v passed finance 101 you understand that if this doesn't happen everything fails. Everything.

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 10:40PM

There is a serious cry-wolf problem going on here, both with the Bush Administration and the bailout.

Bush doesn't know how to present non-propaganda. As a result, no one believes him and with a ~ 20% approval rating, most people believe he has some alterior motive.

Bailout...there have been too many bailouts in the collective memory of the current American voter, largely in situations where they weren't nearly as warrented as this. Your typical American voter does not understand anything about credit markets. All they see is people who get 7 and 8 figure compensation begging for money to fix a mess that they created.

There's a very strong sentiment out there that just wants to see what's going to happen and if "these clowns" are telling the truth.

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 10:54PM

#12 - Yep. Your last two sentences say it all. What is AIG, and how does this fix that, whatever that is? Everything these guys say is indistinguishable from total bullshit. Executive salaries is the only topic that makes sense.

-MT

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 10:58PM

"Subject: Cynthia McKinney Ready to take McCain’s Podium at Friday’s Debate

*For immediate release
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
*
*Contact: John Judge*,

*Cynthia McKinney Ready to take McCain’s Podium at Friday’s Debate*

/WASHINGTON, DC/ -- Green Party presidential nominee Cynthia McKinney has offered to debate Barack Obama if John McCain’s opts out at this Friday’s presidential debate in Oxford, Mississippi, following the Republican nominee’s announcement that he is seeking a delay of the event.

“If John McCain wants to bow out, I’m willing to step in and take his podium on Friday,” said Cynthia McKinney."

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

Posted by guest , Sep 24, 2008 11:39PM

Paulson in particular made huge errors at the hearings this week. Dumbing down vocabulary for the cameras when the underlying concept remains alien just makes him look like he does not know what he is talking about, or that he is trying to get away with something. It sounds like Iraq testimony.

I think we can all agree that Paulson does actually understand the fine points of the problem, at least as much as anyone does. He should be talking like he does, and using the very real language. Stop being fucking vague; the American public does not believe you and they are pressuring the Congress critters to vote down your idea.

And Bush suddenly deciding that the economy is facing a Great Depression would, if it wasn't so serious, be epic lulz.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:04AM

12 Good points. But are you saying the typical american, who doesnt understand, also doesnt think theres a need for a bailout? Maybe, but it could also be that the average american is getting a lot of pain from his declining 401k balance and looking for some action to reverse that.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:08AM

@ 18

It's not like the average American was also not greedy. I mean, he wanted to live beyond his means and buy a $400k house on a 40k salary.

Well, guess what? Shit hit the fan.

There's a fine line between greed and ambition, and being greedy without understanding the repercussions was bound to come back and bite us in the ass.

Besides, better markets imply better value for their lifetime savings (e.g. 401k) and probably less chances of layoffs etc., all of which could do wonders to the consumer economy.

~m

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:16AM

The Chinese have stopped lending to the Americans.............I guess they have reached their pain threshold.

I think the problem is that everyone on Wall Street and every bank with holdings in mortgage-backed assets are not telling the truth (we all know that). This is what is causing all the mistrust and nervousness in the market place.

If banks are not willing to take a haircut from selling their mortgage-backed assets to the Treasury, then let them try their luck in the market place. Put them off the shortselling ban list and see how long they'd survive.

Make it crystal clear to the Board of Directors at these troubled banks that they are liable to criminal prosecution for lying, if not blatantly overstating the value of the assets on their books.

But Paulson would never do that to his friends...................Paulson didn't become the Treasury Secretary without the support of his cronies in the banking industry.

Tough love is required!

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:18AM

#19, so unfair. The poor trusted the suits. They figured that the suits were more savvy and were telling them to do the right thing.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:21AM

No. 20, tough love is needed. Right now though, all the Harvard guys are protecting all the other Harvard guys.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:28AM

@ 21

Come on, even an idiot could tell that this was a boom, and like any boom, it would eventually go bust.

Now, the sad thing is that the suits (who should have known better) were making so much money off of it that they ended up believing it themselves.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:37AM

#23, I'll grant you that. But, it is truly so sad as the "the suits (who should have known better) were making so much money off of it that they ended up believing it themselves." have really screwed up this time, big time and it is the average american who has to pay the bill.

Problem is, even with the prez going on the "idiot box" (my gram's favorite nickname for the big screen) americans still don't want the bailout. What makes this maddening for all of them is that despite all the scare tactics and the threats people are willing to take their chances and not bail them out.

The american people are pretty well educated, they aren't stupid, especially about money. This is terrifying the suits who thought this would be an easy sell. They have tried everything and on a lot of blogs in the comments people are saying "don't believe or trust any of them". One guy said "let's roll the dice and skip the bailout, we are a great country, we'll be fine". This is what they are saying.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:39AM

Frankly, I'm sort of interested in what Great Depression II will look like.

I waited for hours to watch W's speech. I zoned out twice during the thing. He's talking about stock market and savings collapse and all I hear is blah blah blah.

What in this new plan fixes the credit default swap problem? Who knows? Who knows what AIG even did? Even Lehman .. fuck I've never done business with Lehman or E.F. Hutton. Okay, so China will never do business with ME again. And?!

-MT

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 12:49AM

Yegods. "the suits", "cronies in the banking industry"? "Harvard guys"? This place is going to hell. TGFD is vaguely coherent and informed in his nitwit populism, but these guys are muppets.

If you must rant and you don't know enough specifics about the financial world to speculate feverishly about Paulson favoring Goldman, rather than "Harvard guys", begone to Yahoo Finance or Indymedia or wherever else you hail from.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:11AM

What is not understandable is this:

Why can't wall street and the market solve this problem on its own?

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:32AM

@ 24

Like I said, the suits, like the rest of the idiots in this country, believed the lies themselves and ended up in this mess.

However, the one thing to keep in mind is that not doing the bailout will probably hurt more in the long run, both the common man and folks on Wall St.

Banks are already taking a beating for their lousy investments, and Dodd's proposal makes it worse by requiring them to provide the government shares in the company equal in value to what the government pays for the security. If the security doesn't work, all they need to do is sell the shares and recoup the difference.

Also, this is merely a way to unfreeze the credit market, especially for banks with huge exposure to the money markets.

I mean, you could listen to your pet parrot and not do anything, and let everything go to dogs. Sure, the market will fix itself, but it will be a lot more painful and a lot more ugly.

This is just a quick intervention to help the market get there anyway - just with a lot less pain. But hey, what do I know...

~m

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:40AM

31.

I'm your average garden variety American citizen. When you invited the Congress into your world you also invited the citizenry. This is the question being asked on the plebeian blogs populated by the citizenry. When you asked them for their money, you meaning Wall Street, you are going to have to at least ponder their questions.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:46AM

M,

Do you want a phlegmatic cough-up, or 3 months of sniffles? Totally agree that things need to be "righted," but how much longer should we wait for the heavy stationary with an actual number? We're basically trying to prevent the former by using the latter (or ladder on this site) by slowly selling off these assets via you, me, and the other. I certainly hope that credit doesn't fully seize over trauma, but I also remember playing little league in the early 90's. Back then, there was certainly a winner and a loser. Now, there's a celebration between both teams on "doing well." My father (a stoic repub) always said Clinton made a wrong in setting examples for our youth (irresponsibility and dishonesty). I wonder what he'd say about the redaction of "loser" in this whole situation.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:50AM

If interested in timing market tops and bottoms, read note below.

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Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:50AM

What other ways are there to unfreeze the credit markets other than spending $700 billion? The explanation of all this bullshit has been completely inadequate at every level. Bring on Great Depression II I say.

-- MT

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:53AM

Bess, ever since Carney left, the idiot regular joe American citizenry seems to have camped out here.

What next, Ron Paul fans?

Gee.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:53AM

34,

For purposes of wanting to kill me/talk shit, I was too lazy to sign back in.

Lowly Assistant

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:55AM

#36: there is a solution: allow people to buy back their mortgages from the market (even at higher price).They said they are 20 to 30 cents on the dollar, but I called my lender to say that I am ready to pay double that amount.

Read the idea. solutions and the truths why mortage and credit crise explanation is a hoax to take your and my money moeny.

http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-can-i-you-buy-back-my-your-mortgage.html

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:58AM

POST SOME SARAH PALIN JOKES PLS....

Financial news reporter:
How do you explain the widening spreads

Sarah:
Its a sign of medical advancements.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 2:27AM

We have some new commenters on the site. All of a sudden, people in Wall Street are referred to as "suits." The last time I heard that expression was from the lips of Madonna a zillion years ago.

I think where Paulson went wrong was when he came forward last weekend with a three page bill that would have given him absolute authority over the expenditure of $700B from the Treasury to buy up subprime debt at unspecified prices. There was a widespread consensus to go forward with the bail-out until the actual bill became public. People became appalled about what could happen without oversight or judicial review, and Paulson's credibility went down the drain. Frankly, I think Bernanke's reputation has also been badly hurt, and I think he has been unwise to insert himself so deeply into what has become a messy political debate. Someone should have told him that becoming associated with a piece of legislation that would give an appointed cabinet member vast, unchecked power was probably going to be a bad idea.

And what is this odd decision of McCain to suspend his presidential campaign? How does his refusal to broadcast campaign ads or to debate Obama until the crisis is resolved advance Congressional consensus? My God, we were in the midst of the Civil War when the presidential election of 1864 was held, on the eve of the First World War in 1916, watching Europe fend off fascism in 1940, in the midst of the Second World War in 1944, and in the middle of the Vietnam War and the worst national upheavals since the Civil War when the election of 1968 was held. Part of the tradition of American democracy is that elections are held regardless of exigent national circumstances.

I think Bush went where no one has dared to go before. We'll see tomorrow if his prediction of panic is a match to the dry bush.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 2:46AM

#41. I think Charlie Gasparino mentioned this site on CNBC. I read a lot of different sites and I have been surprised to see quotes from this site, from the comments, in a lot of odd places in the context of discussing this entire matter.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 4:03AM

fucking poor people.

please sir, may i have an interest only loan for a piece of shit house that i can't afford on my blue collar salary? i'll just refinance when the house doubles in value next year. kewl!!! I'm a homeowner now!!! take the kids to benigan's honey (aka cousin), we celebratin now.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 4:14AM

Hooray, Section 8. Paulson for Royal Imperator.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 5:15AM

Bess (and anyone else who's interested), Count Vikula's on campus at Wharton today, ostensibly for something called a Fireside Chat (held in a building that doesn't have a single fireplace and is currently colder than a witch's tits). Anyone know if he speaks like he writes those memos? Hope not. If I want to hear someone say nothing for 90 minutes, I'll go to my management class.

-Wharton dickwad

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 6:33AM

no fcukn fun here...

no sarah palin jokes.. ppl are gonna migrate to www.michellemalkin.com

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 7:14AM

Bring on the depression, the suits, regulare american people are smart especially with their money? Big deal china's banks will not lend to the USA?

You guys scare me more than the incompetence of GWB.

I am not saying that Paulsons plan does not have issues becaue it does. But the level of discourse on this thread clearly displays a level of ignorance that makes me beleive we are doomed no matter what.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 8:45AM

OK - we get into this mess because too many fucktards got loans they shouldn't have gotten, and now the debt is toxic.

So Uncle Sugar has to come in and take the sfacim' POS shit bag debt off the bankers hands.

And he neds to do this PRONTO so that the bankers can resume making loans.

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

-- Just a clueless regulator

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 8:45AM

OK - we get into this mess because too many fucktards got loans they shouldn't have gotten, and now the debt is toxic.

So Uncle Sugar has to come in and take the sfacim' POS shit bag debt off the bankers hands.

And he needs to do this PRONTO so that the bankers can resume making loans.

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

-- Just a clueless regulator

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 8:48AM

No. 41. Well that's good. I'm glad you can isolate a "level of ignorance that makes me believe we are doomed no matter what" because the very people you despise for their so called "ignorance" see a level of arrogance among you and your peers that speaks to why we are in the position to begin with and why over half of the American populace doesn't want o give you even another penny.

Sir/madam what is becoming clear to almost everyone reading this board is that the very arrogance we see here is the same arrogance that has put out great country at risk. It seems today that an ivy league business education does not equip one with two major elements for success, common sense and humility.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 9:05AM

I think the reason discourse has fallen off on this post is that we're just frustrated that people who know enough to know why this is scary and why it should scare the average American are using dumbass neutral political jargon instead of spelling out what's wrong.

Look, give up the pay cut and the equity points. This should be last resort, not an excuse for Paulson to buy out Goldman's trash at near-face (if necessary, exclude Goldman from the plan just so people drop this conflict-of-interest stuff). If that limits participation, so be it. I don't think you need total participation to put a floor under prices.

The best model for our trashed credit markets is probably the AIG solution - a controlled unwind. Even if this works, it isn't going to save everybody. Focus on limiting the cascade.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 9:06AM

Wall Street executives now limited to $400,000 a year TOTAL compensation cap.

169% OWNED!!

Thanks Dubya.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 9:38AM

@54

I think you missed the point. Read the Lewis piece on Bloomberg. It may be written with a sarcastic tone but he is pointing out what everyone knows to be true. The bailout is about doing what is good for Goldman.

Posted by guest , Sep 25, 2008 1:39PM

With respect to the comments below, a new message has just been issued. It is now time to take the profits. Time is 1:03PM on September 25. Details on scrolling message on the blog:

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Previous message is:

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