Supposedly, very supposedly, Morgan Stanley will hold talks tonight concerning a possible deal to buy the remaining parts of Wachovia, and Robert Steele taking over as CEO.
Adventures In Completely Unfounded After Hours Rumors: Again With The Morgovia?
Posted by Bess Levin, Sep 29, 2008, 6:53pm
Comments
2
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 6:55PM
Are there parts left? I thought city, according to drudge "ate them for breakfast".
4
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:02PM
Didn't these financial wizards have a Disaster Recovery plan like the IT guys have?
5
Posted by BSD, Sep 29, 2008 7:03PM
drudge is great for politics, bad for anything else - they didn't take IB/asset management. not sure why MS wants them, not exactly top tier...
6
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:04PM
Is anyone going to buy the associates from Wachovia? What numbers are they offering?
7
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:06PM
You dill weeds brought this upon yourselves. Burn.
The Other Guy From Delaware
PS: Bess - You are doing an incredible job on this!
10
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:09PM
MS CDS widened out 1916 today. What would they want with the sloppy seconds from WB?
11
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:09PM
@6: Are you kidding? $0, I would presume.
The Other Guy From Delaware.
16
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:19PM
What bothers me is that "you" are all assuming that the constituents "don't understand what is going on" and I would submit to you that they know very well what is going on. So much so that their representatives are hearing 9 to 1 against. Why? Well, main street is literally saying "bring it on". Realized this while I was watching Forbes on CNBC. The guy is shell shocked. Finally Mark Haines essentially said to him "well they do know what they are doing". Poor Mr. Forbes, after that appearance he is going to need something stronger than coffee.
19
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:26PM
IB, capital markets, Wealth management, and Evergreen Funds are all still in wb...i'd see mack going for it
21
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:33PM
@19 - nope, IB and capital markets have been sold off to Citi. Only AG Edwards and Evergreen remain. Both are perfectly decent companies. The "Bad Bank" has been sold off to Citi. Why wouldn't MS want the second largest retail brokerage in the US if it's available cheap?
22
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:35PM
If you are a Wachovia client, how do you know if they are even still your broker. They weren't answering the phone today.
26
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:53PM
@22 - what is this, the 1930s? Is their web interface also closed for business? You can log in and check your portfolio, can't you? Dumbass.
27
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 7:57PM
Have been having trouble logging in.
I think I want to move whatever is left of my account somewhere else. Just trying to figure out my options.
They just said that 401K's are not insured? IRA's too?
28
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 8:32PM
Evergreen is ok... the Wachovia/AG Edwards side makes Edward D Jones look like Goldman... there's not a full set of teeth at the Wachovia dealer side. AG Edwards is just a bunch of stock jockeys
29
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 8:37PM
@6- first of all, the baseline fact is an if/then statement: the fact you are at Wachovia means you are an idiot... thus the bid for you is zero. Get a job at Kinko's, which is where you should have started to begin with. Charlotte? SIT DOWN. It's a NYC world, the sooner you sad hilljacks realize that the better
31
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 8:45PM
16 Main Street clearly does NOT know whats going. They simply can't get out of their head "bailout for the fat cats that I'm going to have to pay for". Its far more complex than that.
32
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 8:57PM
Amen @30 and @31. @16, you're a tard. Drive your pickup down to the town square and ask all the passers-by about the TED spread. I bet you most of them think it's something they should be putting on their cornbread.
33
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 9:25PM
@16
Now's not a good time to be asking questions, man. Everyone here is in finance and we're having a little bit of a bad day/week/month/year/life. Emotions are running a little high.
You might want to call up your Wachovia rep tomorrow and see about what's going on, maybe look into some other firms. Remember that retail brokers (your guy) is a sales guy, and take a critical look at what he presents to you in re: ideas and your current standing. Go visit someone. It's okay to ask them questions, it's your money, they should be made to answer: that's their job.
Good luck --
35
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 9:29PM
This is @33, I actually meant @16 to be directed at @22.
and @34 -- FUCK OFF DOUCHE BAG. We may have to live with a small bonus structure, but we're not stuck for life with your incredibly small prick & your star wars action figure dolls.
36
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 9:29PM
@34
How's it feel to know that our worst year in terms of compensation is still much larger than your best year?
Markets have peaks and valleys, but you'll always be stuck with your pathetic, mindless job.
37
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 9:35PM
Laugh. I'm a technology executive. I make a lot more then you do. In fact, quite a bit more then you ever will with how Wall Street is changing. And I don't have job or penis insecurity problems.
How is it gonna feel when you get laid off next week and you can no longer make payments on your shitty LES 1-br?
38
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 9:37PM
Sure you do, since extremely wealthy "technology executives" waste their evenings on Dealbreaker jerking off over the latest gossip on the financial markets.
39
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 9:37PM
Perhaps you can start flipping hamburgers to pay off your $100k b-school loan. Oops...bad timing gimps.
41
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:05PM
34 nabs it: the opposition is basically class warfare. Unfounded, since everyones going to suffer, but nevertheless class warfare. There should be literacy tests for voter registration.
42
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:12PM
#41 is just sore from getting a pink slip stuffed in his ass last week. It's not class warfare - It's the belief in free-market capitalism. Solve your own problems.
43
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:17PM
42 It would be a belief in free market capitalism if you were smart enough to understand the program. Rather than just buying what Hannity preaches to you. But your not, so it isn't. Its class warfare.
44
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:21PM
You leveraged too much, you drank the coolaid on your investment products, and you totally missed the inevitable housing decline. Simply, you fucked up and now you are going to pay the price. The weak of you have already gone under (BSC, LEH, MER, WM, WB). The strong are getting stronger (JPM, BAC). The system is working exactly how it should.
46
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:27PM
all the money changers are in temple, so it will be a slow, less liquid day anyway. I'm thinking its gonna move sideways, then start rumbling again depending on what happens with the plan on thursday.
47
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:28PM
@37 Maybe you should take your big buck$ and technological brilliance and create a grammar check for posting comments on blogs. It's "I make a lot more thAn you do. In fact, quite a bit more thAn you ever will with how Wall Street is changing."
Wow, you did it twice, so it's not even an accident.
48
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:31PM
Oh boy, now we have grammar checks.
Did 47 get fired and could only find work as a copyeditor?
49
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:33PM
44 The system is working as it should? Except for LEH and ML, there was significant govt intervention in all those transactions. Not exactly an invisible hand here.
50
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:35PM
@16
I really want to see a clip of that - if you recorded it, you've got to put that up on youtube.
Or find someone who can put it up.
thanks.
51
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:37PM
@28 @29 which former disater of the universe shop you from. arrogant assholes could'nt figure real estate would not go up forever.
56
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 10:59PM
TWO BANKS GOING TO COLLAPSE SOON:
National City is near dead.
Soverign Bancorp in Philadelphia is dying.
Soverign is sitting on very shitty debt load and has no place to go for getting liquidity. Equity vs. Asset spread is enormous, deposits only a fraction of the bank.
SOV will die before the week ends.
57
Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 11:05PM
@56...sad but could be. could be.
HBAN and the rest of the regionals - especially in the Rust Belt are facing a huge shit cloud...
61
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 12:04AM
Oh, god, @60... you have been hurt... you have been hurt by somebody, that much is clear... who hurt you?
63
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 12:13AM
31: You're right, it's more complex than that, but "bailout for Wall Street Fatcats" is a necessary part of ANY solution that does not involve "let 'em burn." There is no way to improve the situation on Wall Street without improving the situation on Wall Street.
What I think 16 was trying to say is that even those on Main Street who realize that what happens on Wall Street impacts them eventually, thank you very much, have decided that they're better off letting it all wind up and flushing the system. Yes, it WILL be hard on them too. Anybody who's not an idiot sees that. But the choices are, in their minds, to let the Wall Street crowd swing in the breeze and take an unknown amount of pain for everybody else, or save the Wall Street crowd and take a known big ol' $700B+ (and you know as well as they do that will NOT be the end of it) known lump of pain for themselves. They're choosing to take their chances and to Hell with Goldman Sachs.
Given the predictive track record of Wall Street/Finance Types/Economists generally, whatever you may think the plain truth is that they've got just as much chance to be right, in the overall scheme of things, as you do. At least in that their collective decision may result in the same amount if not less pain for the general populace as any endless string of bailouts. Yeah, right, that $700B is supposed to stop a $30T+ cascade. But you don't know it'll work and neither does Hammerin' Hank. At this point just based on past performance the smart money would be to do exactly the opposite of whatever he says.
65
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 12:27AM
64: Let me sum up.
Po' folks says, "Bring back de bread lines long's Dick Fuld next t'us innem. We's fucked eida way."
66
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 12:45AM
65, who do you think you are, George Gershwin? Please spare us the dialect.
Suze Orman was all over CNN tonight, warning people of pending financial doom. Some poor guy called and asked "What happens to us living on social security and disability?" and she started screaming that everyone had to learn to look after him or herself.
67
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 12:47AM
No. 63, thanks from #16.
Everyone else. I am really sorry if I was insensitive about what you guys are going through. Sometimes though it is necessary to get it all out before you can begin to fix it.
68
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 12:50AM
We realized tonight that we will never stop working, never retire. There will be no social security for those in their 40's and 50's now and the IRA's invested in the market have little chance for recovery. It is a tough realization.
69
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 12:53AM
66: If Suze Orman thinks we're fucked, I consider that an unexpected and welcome ray of light at this dark hour. She's so dumb that her conviction all hope is lost may very well cancel out Hank's perception that there's no hope at all.
And no, I'm not a Gershwin. It simply Amused me to respond to the 1,346,045th "TLDR" fuckheadery like that. I find I can bear your disdain with great fortitude.
70
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 1:14AM
This was posted to the "Riehl World View" blog:
"
Here's the part of this bailout that I am yet to understand. What's the paper worth on a micro scale.
Here's an example.
House bought in 2007. Owner paid $500,000. Put zero down. House value drops to $400,000. Interest rate is 8%. 30 year ARM. Owner hasn't paid a dime on the mortgage.
Estimate for me the value of this mortgage:
1. As it would have been valued at the time of origination assuming owner would have performed
2. What it's worth today to a buyer of the mortgage.
3. What the government would hope to pay for the mortgage to take it off of the books of the bank or holder?
I keep hearing "the Feds can buy this debt for 20 cents on the dollar". What does that mean in english? Does this mean they expect to pay $100,000 to have a first lien on a house worth $400,000 today that was originally worth $500,000? If so... sign me up as a buyer. What am I missing?
Posted by: aknot | Monday, September 29, 2008 at 11:10 PM"
If you can answer the question, please go and do so as America reads the blog and a little education and communication from both sides would go a long way now.
71
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 1:58AM
Dear #70:
I don't know. Can someone please explain the concept of "on the books" vs "off the books"? What are these books everyone talks about? How can you put a mortgage on BOOKS???? The only book I can think of is the payment coupon book for my mortgage. Shheeesh!!!
Sincerely,
Grain farmer in Iowa who hates fat cats.
P.S. please answer my question soon before I have to fuck my wife. She may be my sister, but she mighty purty, ya'll...finer than frog hair, whoooo doggies
72
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:30AM
Thank you No. 70 for gloriously illustrating my point. It is the arrogance of Wall Street that is irking average americans in a big way. In case you haven't noticed America is a well educated country. The same "malls" are ubiquitous. The intelligent and wealthy no longer stay on the coasts. The longer you refuse transparency and the more you use subterfuge instead of explanation, the worse America will get its "back up". It was 9 to 1 against. Keep up the arrogance and the representatives will find that number higher as the lazy ones will start writing, faxing, calling and emailing.
I think if Wall Street began to treat mainstream America with some respect then a dialogue could begin and hopefully the problem might get solved. Remember, main stream America did not create the problem yet you have the arrogance to abuse them and be little them when you are asking them, on bended knee, to pay for it.
Think you guys need a serious reality check.
73
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:53AM
"why not just cancel these derivative contracts and see what happens before we throw tons of cash at the problem and continue to blame our neighbors for causing this mess?"
74
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:09AM
@72 - "Remember, main stream America did not create the problem "
Oh that's absolutely right! Let's go down the list:
- People who bought houses they couldn't afford: not their fault, ALL of them were tricked into signing those complicated loan contracts that no one could understand. Moreover, of course they didn't dare to think that housing prices would go up forever; they just thought that their wages were going to go up so that they could manage the payments.
- People who took out equity loans to finance their vacations, cars, etc: see above
- People who maximized out their multiple credit cards: see first point, except this time it was all the evil credit card companies' fault!
- People who spent excessively and didn't save: they were just trying to power the economy along! How dare you blame those patriotic Americans?
What happened to the sense of individual financial responsibility? Not to say that "Wall St.", along with the regulatory and rating agencies, shouldn't shoulder their share of blame, but are they the only ones responsible? If America were indeed a "well-educated" country, apparently that education doesn't include finance and economics. By the way, with all the regional commercial banks failing, you'd have to an idiot to think that this is still Wall St's problem alone.
75
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:19AM
No. 74, yes you are correct those kinds of people do exist, however, the vast majority are horrified by those people and at the behavior of our elected representatives and "Wall Street" which I realize is a euphemism for the entire financial world.
I realize how complicated this situation is and I think many americans realize this also. There is enough reading matter out there to enable anyone to really educate themselves on the subject. The problem is, the more educated the populous becomes, the more questions they being to ask. Now I think people think there were underhanded dealings going on and they don't trust anyone anymore. So, this is naturally going to trickle down to how they view their very own neighborhood bank, their credit unions, their pension plan administrator and, if they are fortunate enough to have investments, their financial adviser or broker.
The kind of dialog we are having needs to be had sort of on a national level. Not just among the representatives but among the representatives and the American people. The people need to hear from the Nobel economists and the economists as a whole. They need to hear from the bankers. We as a nation need what my grand dad fondly remembers as a "fireside chat".
76
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:35AM
I'm a technology executive and I make a lot more then you do. What's the difference between then and than?
SPODE
78
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:02AM
@72
You want to start a dialogue between Main Street and Wall Street to help resolve this problem? Great idea!
First, don't take on a mortgage you can't afford.
Second, your home is not a fucking ATM machine.
Third, you can cut off your finger or the economy will off your leg, you decide.
Wall Street is proposing higher inflation and a mild recession.
Main Street is proposing higher inflation, significantly higher unemployment, and a painful recession.
Please tell me again what you want to discuss, I'm confused.
SPODE
80
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:29AM
I'm a technology executive and I make a lot more then you do. To whom are you addressing your comment?
I'm on fire tonight bitches! PGR4, Red Bull, and Black Flag Damaged. Goddamn life is good!
SPODE
81
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:52AM
I personally did none of the items you outlined. But then again, main street did not bundle up bunches of mortgages and sell them round and round the world where bankruptcy courts at times are having trouble locating the papers from the transactions.
There is some disagreement with you. World class economists seem to think we don't have to cut off our fingers or our legs. There are other points of view out there and it would behoove anyone examining the issue to look into those other avenues. This was, IMHO, Paulson's cardinal sin, announcing to the world that he is right and we are to do as he says. He forgot he wasn't a CEO anymore but a pseudo public servant and, as such, behaved deplorably.
It is sad that people define themselves by the amount of remuneration they receive for their toil. Just a friendly reminder: don't assume you know what a person's net worth is by a conversation on a message board. You could conceivably be shocked to your manolo blahniks
82
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:55AM
btw, unless you are steve jobs, you don't make a lot more than me.
Fun sparring with you.
83
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:35AM
technology executive??? you're in over your head here chum. Now your shift at CDW starts in 2 hours, time to get mommy to make you some pancakes
84
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:40AM
Absolute Rule #1: Anyone who comes on an internet posting board and brags about their income is a retard.
Formula is:
Internet Supposed Income X .06 =
Actual Income
85
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 6:29AM
@72 "America is a well educated country."
you obviously haven't visited Long Island.
86
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 7:57AM
To all those on main street who beleive this plan is retarded and "we need to let the market work". To all those who beleive in "free markets". I say GREAT - if you really want to put your money where your mouth is now is the time for you to start yelling at your congress idiot to BRING BACK THE SHORT SELLERS.
Not that your congress idiot can do anything about this but clearly they were not the reason the market was going down. Clearly they were not targeting the financial names. Nor were they causing them to go TU.
Time to be consistent all you free market main street people.
88
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 8:46AM
@ .06 is very generous on your part. I might have gone with something like .035 or maybe .038.
89
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 10:02AM
56, SOV is 33% owned by Banco Santander. Do you think Santander is going to let it belly up, or might they take a bigger position in exchange for some backstopping liquidity?
What about SOV's Multi-Family Unit? It's a great little moneymaker. Spinoff to P.E. ?
Whaddaya think?
90
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 10:05AM
89 I think if you like well run multi family lending units you should also look at NYB - NY Community Bank, which concentrates on the NY outer boros and close in suburbs.
91
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 10:34AM
WTF????
Shitty Wachovia needs to go the way of WAMU & its executives need to go to prison, right now!!
92
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 11:41AM
No. 86, thanks for the laugh. I murfed my coffee as my exposure to Long Island is "the hamptons".
No. 90, FFIC?
93
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 6:00PM
Leroy here. Does this Citi-Wachovia deal require Wachovia shareholder approval? That's what Steele said in his letter to Wachovia employees. Why in the world would Wach shareholders vote to give their company away? The company is still sound and is well-capitalized. They are suffering from a liquidity crisis.
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Posted by guest, Sep 29, 2008 6:54PM
Bess, you have posted nearly non-stop the past 3 days. Thank you, and eff the assholes.