We all knew going into the weekend that Monday would be a day to test the strength of the financial system. We just didn't know how tough that test was going to be. It's Monday in most of the world now, and markets are cracking up just a few hours behind sunrise. Australia's financial stocks are leading its market downward, and it's Reserve Bank is injecting $1.3 billion to ease concerns.
Bank of America's purchase of Merrill Lynch at a premium is presumably good news, and may indicate that Merrill was in better shape than many thought. But the deal is pricey, and the premium may diminish if Bank of America's stock gets punished for this expenditure. The news on AIG and Washington Mutual continues to be troubling. Already questions are being asked about whether Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs can survive as independent investment banks. As of now it looks grim, with S&P 500 futures down 3.7 percent, Dow futures down 3.1 percent.
We'll leave this as an open thread for discussion of developments over night and predictions about Monday's European and US markets.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:41PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=320299692197
WWW.FALLOFLEHMAN.COM FOR SALE ON EBAY
LOL
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:45PM
15 minutes and counting....
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:45PM
they do a deal.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:46PM
they do a deal.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:48PM
The Sunday before 1987 Crash was sorta like this
Remember EF Hutton?
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:49PM
i say markets down 5% monday.. hopefully no big surprises from gs & ms on tue & wed...
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:51PM
leh doing a deal? no way, it's over -- they're not even part of the Group of 10 pooling liquidity for that $70bn joint account (I counted!)
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:51PM
AIG is going to get hammered tomorrow. Doubt Lehman is going to file in 8 minutes.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:51PM
8 minutes and counting
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:52PM
"[Australia's] Reserve Bank is injecting $1.3 billion to ease concerns"
Printing more money ain't gonna fix this clusterfuck.
The deadpool on banks is getting boring. Let's start speculating on which currency goes to zero first.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:52PM
at least most of the Asian markets are closed monday...
just trying to be optimistic
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:52PM
@ 6...nope.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:52PM
the merrill purchase should stabilize the mkt on monday - gs & ms earning next - more volatility ahead
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:52PM
what is the significance of midnight for filing?
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:53PM
what is significance of midnight filing?
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:54PM
sorry double, stupid screen does not refresh
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:55PM
ISDA protocol ends at 11.59
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:55PM
no significance as long as it's before 9:30 i guess
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:55PM
the swap trades made earlier are null if no bankruptcy is filed
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:55PM
@ 14, 15, 16.
do your homework.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:56PM
17/19 thanks. but can they just extend it?
I would imagine by now they're all so freakin tired they have no idea what they are even doing.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:56PM
do your homework, hotshot.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:57PM
4 mins. to go and still no LEH filing. So will all the ISDA Lehman risk reduction trades be dk'd if they file at 12:01am? how much of an impact will that have on monday? or did not much trade in that session anyway?
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:57PM
how many people on these message boards were in finance in the fall of 2001? i was and i thought the world, the us economy, the financial services industry, etc., etc., etc., were all dead, or going to sleep for a long while. these days i spend an unhealthy amount of time looking at long-dated stock charts and imagining how rich i'd be if I'd gone long in that market, especially in stocks of companies that everyone was *sure* were finished...
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:57PM
they'll do a deal.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:57PM
damn that's right
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:57PM
The swap trades were apparently a clusterfuck, so no great loss.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:58PM
it was posted elsewhere that the swap session did little if anything.
but it did set a up a deadline.
Posted by guest , Sep 14, 2008 11:58PM
@ 26, can you expound upon that brilliant remark?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:00AM
#5 - WHO?
Posted by John Carney , Sep 15, 2008 12:00AM
We heard that the net-it-out session was a mess, and so the midnight deadline might not matter all that much. That said, I'm a bit surprised they are dragging it out this long.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:01AM
Down down 1,100 in AM
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:02AM
I graduated from an ivy in 2002... 9/11 and the subsequent downturn basically made it impossible to work in IBD or S&T on the Street. Wish things had worked out differently but that's life. My guess is a lot of college grads and MBAs will be going through the same thing this year.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:02AM
Maybe Fuld will have this filed at 12:01 AM, just to screw with the ISDA.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:02AM
12:02 and no filing? I supposed even in this information age it still takes more than 3 minutes to learn if they have filed?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:03AM
@ 32 where is it now?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:03AM
@17, et al - there were no swap deals - no one would pull their skirt up
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:04AM
Is there any chance that if the sale of Neuberger Berman goes through that they can remain independent or are they truly insolvent? I think there has been a lot of speculations on the size of the bad real estate assets and no one has had a close look at the books except Dick Fuld. The fact that BOA and Barclays pulled makes me think otherwise but it seems like too much could not have changed since he was trying to keep the firm alive, and unlike BSC, this is not a liquidity crisis.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:05AM
This story seems to indicate that at least some of those swap trades did happen:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080914/lehman_specialsession.html
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:06AM
@38 and everyone - there's no chance that leh won't file.. they're not part of the liquidity pool setup, the fed is expanding lending and providing a backstop for trades to clear 'in an orderly fashion' - it's over... i feel terrible for all the leh folks, but i really think it's over...
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:08AM
how can you file at midnight if none of the court buildings are open...?
$$$
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:08AM
its ON!!!!
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:08AM
@33 what are you doing these days working? was this a response to 24 or just a sob story to go with the Lehman testimonials.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:09AM
its ON!!!!
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:09AM
why there's still no official news on leh
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:09AM
38 -
Who the hell is going to do business with Lehman at this point? We already had the wake on CNBC. People are taking their stuff out of offices and crying in the streets right now.
That's not a firm anymore.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:09AM
you file electronically
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:09AM
Does anyone have a dial in for the 8am Merrill call tomorrow/this morning?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:10AM
BEST EBAY AUCTION OF THE DAY: WWW.LEHMANRESUMES.COM WOW.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LEHMAN-BROTHERS-COLLAPSE-RESUME-DOMAIN-NAME_W0QQitemZ320299542422QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320299542422&_trkparms=72:1163|39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:11AM
Does anyone have a dial in for the 8am Merrill call tomorrow/this morning?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:11AM
Dylan Ratigan almost loses it in the final minutes of CNBC wrap-up at 10:54p.m. -- having trouble holding onto this composure when calling it a "historic day"
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:11AM
Anyone have a dial-in for the AIG call in the morning?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:13AM
Would love to see a graph indicating # of people taking LSAT/GMAT in coming months compared to past couple of years.
Posted by I am a Dude , Sep 15, 2008 12:13AM
whats on?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:13AM
does anyone have the dial in for the 8am BofA/Merrill call?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:14AM
does anyone have the dial in for the 8am BofA/Merrill call?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:14AM
Fuld/Board blew it. Should have sold stock at $45 but got greedy. So sorry for all LEH employees who weren't responsible for bad decisions made.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:14AM
aig is crumbling - borrow 40 billion from fed....scary
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:15AM
Ratigan is a loudmouth, but he's not stupid. This is historic. The entire Wall Street system as we knew it is coming to an end. Hell, NYC baller culture is coming to an end.
Y'all will be able to tell your kids about this someday. I don't know about 1929, but 1987 mixed in with 1973-74 sounds about right for starters.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:16AM
@52
Please press *6 to shut the F up during you call.
Ace Greenberg is in trouble today
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:17AM
@24
The sky will fall tomorrow and excellent buys [longterm] will be had. I'm excited.
SPODE
Posted by I am a Dude , Sep 15, 2008 12:19AM
@60
You mean Hank greenberg, you dumb fuck.
Ace went out the window with bear
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:20AM
@60 be gentle, it's late. or early. whichever.
so what will aig do?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:20AM
relax, the sky isn't falling, it's just sagging.. this is the most resilient financial system in the world, it'll pull through in the end...
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:21AM
i meant 62. im delirious.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:23AM
carney - spectacular work this weekend, really.
(imagine if you guys hadn't gotten the message boards fixed. shudder...)
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:24AM
@63
This isn't 1960. We don't have any of our own money anymore.
Not just lifestyle changes for WS Associates/VPs. Lifestyle changes for all Americans.
20 years of capital consumption is too much for any financial system to withstand.
I'm not even feeling comfortable with my USD cash holdings at this point...
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:24AM
@41: the federal courts are always open.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:24AM
chapter 11... not 7
Posted by I am a Dude , Sep 15, 2008 12:25AM
We're all waiting for some announcement.
Gave up on other "news" sites hours ago. relying solely on Carney.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:28AM
I feel bad for Alexis de Rosnay and William Vereker.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:29AM
Federal courts by law are open for filing 24 hours a day. The guest who said that a bankruptcy filing can be done electronically is probably right, although the federal courts were a little slow to catch up on technology.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:34AM
ASX has suspended LEH as a participant
it starts
CNBC cites Rueters as filing been made
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:34AM
ASX has suspended LEH.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24348189-643,00.html
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:37AM
I picture Greenlight Capital employees looting Lehman's headquarters in the morning.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:38AM
It's all already been said, but I gotta say mine.
Wall Street / financial markets / world economy are f'd up for 2 years / 3 weeks / 9 months, respectively. Long-term all will recover huge. Remember that and try to take advantage.
Good luck to those who will lose their jobs and/or much wealth because of this.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:39AM
I wish I had my Lehman stock certificates. I would try to sell them on Ebay.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:43AM
During the Russian Bank crisis in the 90's Lehman hired some ex KGB agents to storm Russian banks with AK-47's and seize the banks' assets (cash and gold I think). Wonder if the Russians are gonna storm Lehman tomorrow to get their assets back.
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:46AM
http://www1.nysd.uscourts.gov/24hr_filing.php
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:46AM
LEH Holding files Chapter 11
does not include broker dealer subs
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 12:49AM
Seems appropriate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd1mKaxN6EY
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 1:56AM
also appropriate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 3:06AM
So who loses more ibanking employees BofA or ML?
Posted by guest , Sep 15, 2008 3:54AM
yeah i'm wondering the same thing.. especially in trading? presumably merrill's traders are better than bofa's?