It was a bit disturbing to hear John McCain blaming the greed of Wall Street and the lack of federal oversight for the our financial meltdown. But McCain's performance yesterday on the Today show was truly a travesty. He attempts to voice the free-marketeer line that AIG shouldn't be bailed out but winds up sounding like Miss Teen USA South Carolina talking about Iraq.
Our friend Rachel Sklar at the Huffington Post provides the transcript.
LAUER: So if we get to the point middle of the week as we heard in that report where AIG might have to file for bankruptcy, they're on their own?McCAIN: Well...quote, "on their own"...we have to - we cannot have the taxpayers bail out AIG or anybody else...this is something we're gonna have to work through -- there's too much corruption, there's too much access, we can fix it, I believe in America - we can have a 9/11 commission such as we had after 9/11, 'cause this is a huge crisis and we can come up with fixes and we can make sure that every American has a safer future and that is to make them know that their bank deposits are safe and insured.
It's hard to escape the feeling that free market ideas don't stand a chance with this guy as the Republican leader.
Does McCain Understand The AIG Crisis? [Huffington Post]
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:18AM
The fundamentals of the economy are strong.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:21AM
I was passionately against bailing out homeowners but in retrospect after LEH/AIG blow up, it was a good idea.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:23AM
Flippa to the floppa and you just don't stoppa.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:26AM
Give it a rest JC, the folks in the fly over states who cling to their guns eat this stuff up, especially with BO and Pelosi stoking the flames. Wouldn't you rather have a Republican who begrudgingly is going to accept what he calls reasonable regulation than a Democrat who never met a regulation he didn't like and who views profits as something evil that the government should take away (i.e. oil)?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:29AM
Give it a rest 4 - the fundamentals of our economy are strong.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:31AM
Kudlow needs to get ahold of McCain, like yesterday, and explain this financial stuff. It has nothing to do with the last 8 years of the Bush policies. Obama picked up a couple of points in the polls. Thats why everyone dumped stocks. Period.
Posted by diablo , Sep 18, 2008 8:33AM
The guy sounds incoherent, that's more disturbing than what you think he was trying to say. Plus bringing up the word corruption is a little too hypocritical.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:40AM
@6, "Obama picked up a couple of points in the polls. Thats why everyone dumped stocks. Period."
Sometimes i cant tell on this site if people are being sarcastic or just mentally challenged. Period.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:41AM
Whichever president keeps Barney Frank locked in the basement will get my vote.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:41AM
@8 - 6 is just mentally challenged.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:43AM
Great Headline, John. Let's elect Barak "I want to tax you to death and redistribute your wealth to lazy fucks" Osama.
Stick to economics. Few presidents have had a true grasp of the markets. That's what the Fed and advisors are for.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:44AM
It does not bode well for the future when either party's nominee for president can be tripped up by Matt Fucking Lauer.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:44AM
too long, didn't vote
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:45AM
Al Gore invented the economy
Posted by Joe Weisenthal , Sep 18, 2008 8:46AM
Neither Obama nor McCain have a clue what's going on... but McCain can't even speak English when the subject comes to anything Wall St./Economy-related. I'm really surprised his comments about a "social contract between Capitalism and the working people" haven't been picked up more, since that's about the biggest abortion of reason and language I've ever heard in a political campaign.
Beyond that, I think in his core, McCain is more hostile towards capitalists than Obama is. Obama has an unrealistic, namby-pamby vision of capitalism and big-governmentism can work together in harmony. McCain hates rich pricks who never "served their country" in some way.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:47AM
i find it impressive that McCain managed to tie the failure of AIG with 9/11.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:48AM
Carney, good to finally see you start to get smart about the presidential candidates. I was worried for a while
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:49AM
Whoa...McCain doesn't sound well there. Damn, but as above have noted - is Obama really a better option? And who would McCain pick as his Treasury chief? Blankfien? Cohen? Chanos!?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:49AM
Posted without comment:
``The private market screwed itself up and they need the government to come and help them unscrew it,'' House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, told reporters late yesterday after top lawmakers met with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:50AM
both McCain and Obama are idiots regarding the Economy.
Let's Elect Hank Paulson.
How come no one smart ever runs?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:50AM
Do you realize you referenced The Huffington Post on a Wall Street Blog?
JC, your stock is dropping.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:50AM
both McCain and Obama are idiots.
Let's elect Hank Paulson.
How come no one smart ever runs?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:52AM
if you want to understand the market sell off yesterday, just overlay a graph of Obama's support level vs the Dow. As Obambi gains, the dow loses
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:53AM
@23
"Obambi" -- love it!
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:53AM
@21...
Agreed. I'm shorting Carney!
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:53AM
Seriously, this site was fantastic until you started referencing Huffington.
Posted by Rex Bannister , Sep 18, 2008 8:56AM
Obama will fuck up the economy worse than McCain if elected. At least we'll live in a socialist paradise though.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:56AM
Here's some reassurance for everyone:
"Ben, you are playing a very unique role in world economic history," {economist David[ Hale recalled telling Bernanke, an expert in the Great Depression. "You are the first central bank governor of the United States to preside over a recession with no decline in commodity prices."
Bernanke could hypothetically limit inflation in commodities by raising interest rates, a policy that would restrict the flow of money but potentially lead to an avalanche of bank failures. At a financial conference in Florida on Tuesday, Hale, a Chicago-based economist for investment managers, hedge funds and multinational companies, paraphrased the Fed chairman's response.
"We have lost control," said Hale, quoting Bernanke. "We cannot stabilize the dollar. We cannot control commodity prices."
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/bernanke-we-have-lost-control.html
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 8:57AM
is this man senile? god help us if he wins because he's not going to make it through his first term in good health.
then we'll have sarah "it took me 5 years to graduate college with a communications degree" palin as our president. why doesn't anyone intelligent ever run?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:01AM
I was watching an Obama spokesman yesterday on Obama's views. Basically, we need more regulation. When asked what sort of regulation and what it would address, he came back with with the statement that it is too bad that we are here but we need more regulation. Seems to me blank check regulation isn't a great solution. To be real, the problem is no one really understands how to get out of the pickle we are in.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:03AM
Carney has joined the ranks of those members of the conservative intelligentsia honest enough to take a good, hard look at McCain and come away with the same conclusion: "We respect the guy, sure, but we can't be expected to actually defend the shit he's spewing, right?"
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:03AM
Because I supposed the CEOs of Lehman, Merrill, and AIG had better idea of what was going on?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:06AM
31 To say nothing of his sidekick, Miss Alaska.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:07AM
ah, so you are opting for the socialism/communism route of the young senator and our friend, ariana?
when you bank account reflects your choice, we are not going to listen to you rant.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:09AM
33 - see, e.g., David Brooks' column on experience as the Founding Fathers understood it.
Posted by cheesedog , Sep 18, 2008 9:10AM
Anybody here old enough to remember the S&L crisis? The irony is dripping. McCain was one of the Keating 5. He cost taxpayers huge by preventing regulators from going after that Keating scumbag until he had already put taxpayers on the hook for hundreds of millions. He remembers. That is why he is trying to be very careful about what he says here. He doesnt want the rest of us to notice the parallels.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:10AM
Everyone don't worry. Sarah Palin's sister used to be a bank teller in Alaska and she knows all about this stuff.
Posted by Distressed Debt , Sep 18, 2008 9:11AM
Why do Republicans always fall for the bullshit line that Democrats are going to raise your taxes? My god, people, Obama is proposing to put the tax rate on those with income over $250K back to the rates in effect before George Bush II decided to cut taxes while increasing spending. Remember the years before George Bush II when Clinton was President and the economy was humming along and we had a budget surplus and the smart people from Goldman Sachs (Bob Rubin) was Treasury Secretary? I understand that higher taxes equal less money in your pockets but this can’t be the only issue on which you make a decision to vote for a candidate. Plus, the last time a checked the President can’t enact a tax hike without Congress passing a law, so to say Obama will raise your taxes shows, at best, a serious lack of understanding of how our political system works or plain stupidity on the part of people who fall for this line. Democrats are not hostile to profit making. Most of us simply believe that to those who much is given much is demanded. So we have no problem paying more taxes or giving money to charity or helping those less fortunate than ourselves.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:11AM
@ 34. Ummm, wasn't AIG just nationalized under a Republican administration?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:12AM
Fuld - Callan '08
Posted by Last Man Standing , Sep 18, 2008 9:13AM
carney, you just quoted the huffington post???? have you gone mad?
i dont care if rachel Sklar is the hottest thing since bess levin, or how many times you banged her (rachel, not bess) most ppl dont come to DB to read crap from the puffington host
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:13AM
Bald - Bear '08
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:15AM
Is it really too late for Bloomberg to run?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:16AM
I think it is premature for any candidate to have a strong stand on what to do because things are changing weekly. In my opinion, as catastrophic as these collapses, bailouts and buyouts are today, when we emerge from this "tomorrow" we will be stronger and better. Too many people are relying on the government for help, blame and answers. Yet, the root of this was the sub prime and the sub prime lending easements for "affordable housing", guess who lead those easements--- the government. Then we have Pelosi who wants to stand up and say "The Democrats bear no responsibility" Are you serious? Then we have the lovely media who manipulates and plays games with everyone. The media should have been behind the scenes in the beginning in NYC mortgage banks to witness the practices of "mortgage banks", "home appraisers" who would inflate value of homes for the benefits of HELOC's and other purchases-- wasn't it odd to the media how suddenly everyone could afford a home or homes? Where was the reports on regulation, bank practices, or the greedy CEO's then? The government and the media... disgusting.
Let's rely on our candidates and our government to float the magic wand and fix it all because we are not smart enough to rebuild ourselves. I am sorry but this is America, we govern ourselves with as little intervention as possible.
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help- Ronald Regan
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:17AM
Uh-oh...he's caught the "Subject/Verb/9-11 bug from Rudy.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:18AM
@38... If you don't make over $250k a year, you are not permitted to voice your opinion on this blog.
Your economic plan should involve a couple feet of rope and a high tree limb.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:20AM
In a major city in this country #38, $250 grand does not go very far. If you are a nurse and a cop married with a couple of kids or a teacher and a union guy married with a couple of kids you are just about making it. And, you do not have the luxury of being able to make more commission.
I just wish the young senator would be clear. The other day at a rally he said he was not going to raise taxes, period (a George Bush I, watershed moment for sure "read my lips, no new taxes") then the other night I heard him say he was giving the middle class a grand. Then I keep hearing all the "entitlement programs" he would like congress to adopt. This all begs the question "hey how are you going to pay for all this?" The "bigger government, bigger entitlement program model" does not work but it does indeed sound so altruistic to think we can save the world.
The candidates would be better served by saying "I really can't tell you what I would do until I get in there and see the mess up close and personal">
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:23AM
@44 - I love this line of argument. "The government made us run up housing prices, securitize mortgage-backed securities and write CDS/CDO paper like betting slips at Belmont on race day! They put a gun to our heads and told us to make billions in the housing bubble!!"
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:23AM
I haven't read a word of this.
But I have seen headline after Bloomberg headline of alleged one liners from John McCain about the need for "regulation."
Since Bloomberg is Obama's private PR ministry, I wouldn't believe a word of it.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:25AM
Is any of this a surprise?
Obama's response to AIG was, I have no position because I need to look into the details. Nice way to take a position so he won't sound like a dumb ass.
McCain needs to preach TAX CUTS AND CUTS IN FEDERAL SPENDING. The mantra needs to be repeated and repeated and repeated.
The questions that Congress and the House Sub Committees have asked-- the Fed and the Treasury and whomever else they parade in front of the cameras-- are utterly absurd. The lawyers in DC have no idea how the financial markets work.
These new short regulations are throwing a bone to the public who think Short Selling is "Evil."
God forbid we go after the firms that have had in the past a ton of FAIL TO DELIEVERS.-- or the rating agencies that AAA ratings on garbage-- or the analysts who don't have a clue, have a buy rating on everything, and don't down grade until someone misses earnings.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:25AM
How come when I went for a mortgage they went over me with a fine toothed comb and made me pay twenty percent down?
That's not fair that I was singled out like that, where do I file my complaint?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:28AM
@51. See 46
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:28AM
Oh, a 9/11 commission!
Great! So we can have a bunch of hacks get together, let themselves be stonewalled, and then whitewash the fact that it was all a Mossad/Bush admininstration conspiracy?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:29AM
I'm pretty sure that Obama has a stronger base of economic understanding than McCain...look at how their educations compare.
One went to two Ivy's, and the other finished fifth from the bottom of his class.
One has world class advisers (Rubin, Summers, Goolsbee) and the other has the woman who ran HP almost into the ground.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:30AM
Maybe Wall Street and the Government should offer an incentive bonus for the guy/gal who knows what is going on. First within the government and second on Wall Street.
From where I sit, I've yet to hear anyone have a clue.
Posted by RAW DOG , Sep 18, 2008 9:30AM
John Carney - I'm shocked that you would stoop so low as to even read that dreadful piece of internet trash.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:32AM
#11, that is not true, Obama is not going to raise taxes on everyone. The 95 percent-plus of the American population that earns less than $250,000 will receive tax breaks.taxes will only be raised on the top 1 %, i.e., those making $600,000 or more.
Sto preaching the republican talking points. Haven't you guys learned anything after 8 years?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:32AM
#11, that is not true, Obama is not going to raise taxes on everyone. 95 percent-plus of the American population that earns less than $250,000 will receive tax breaks.taxes will only be raised on the top 1 %, i.e., those making $600,000 or more.
Sto preaching the republican talking points. Haven't you guys learned anything after 8 years?
Posted by girl , Sep 18, 2008 9:36AM
I love how everyone keeps calling them both idiots; Obama would rather die than sound so stupid.
I change my mind Carney, i think i love you.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:36AM
you're all a bunch of blathering fools! congress is going to adjourn because it's clueless . . . NEITHER candidate has a plan. . . bash McCain after Obama presents a solid position on something (for once)
until then . . . greed and no oversight work just fine.
Posted by redpandot , Sep 18, 2008 9:37AM
@36 that is a key observation and a reason we should all be quite afraid of how McCain actually may prefer a fairly strong role for government (or at least tax-payers)...
What would Ron Paul do?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:37AM
you're all a bunch of blathering fools! congress is going to adjourn because it's clueless . . . NEITHER candidate has a plan. . . bash McCain after Obama presents a solid position on something (for once)
until then . . . greed and no oversight work just fine.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:38AM
@57 & 58. Please read the small print, you need to click on submit only once.
Next, read his economic thesis. The amount of money needed to fund his proposed projects is substantially greater than the increased revenue he would generate from his "proposed" tax hikes.
That's weird... more liabilities than cash reserves and current cash flow... seems like I've heard something about that somewhere before.
I'll make sure to put a couple coins in your cup when I see you on the corner this evening on my way home from WORK.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:38AM
Yesterday something very significant occurred. A top Hillary adviser jumped ship. If you don't think she had the blessing of her boss, come, I'm offering this beautiful bridge to Brooklyn at a wonderful price, nothing down, no credit check, and we are going to convince the appraiser that the price is correct.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:38AM
Barack Obama has been raising a fuss about the credit crisis for a while now (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/obamas-prescien.html ). And he doesn't want to tax everyone up the wazoo, either. A couple days ago Obama said, among other things, we need to "reform our tax system to give a $1,000 tax break to the middle class."
People condemn him because of their simplistic notion of what a Democrat is supposed to be.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:39AM
@38 - "Democrats are not hostile to profit making." - Except when they are of course "obsene" or "windfall" profits, in which case Democrats want to take them.
"Most of us simply believe that to those who much is given much is demanded." - Yeah, you and Karl Marx, though your phraseology of "from each according to his means and to each according to his needs" is a bit more subtle. I'm looking at my W-2 and I don't think I was "given" anything.
"So we have no problem paying more taxes or giving money to charity or helping those less fortunate than ourselves." - Yeah, like Biden who gives 0.06% - 0.31% of his income to charity.
Go back to the Daily Kooks site. They love yelling at each back and forth with this drivel.
Posted by DS , Sep 18, 2008 9:40AM
@38 - Actually that's not true, all Obama needs to do is let the Bush tax cuts expire to raise taxes. Also, that grand you're talking about is not a cut, it's essentially a handout. Giving $1000 to someone who paid $200 in taxes is not a rebate. @47 is right. When you have kids in private school and college, which I'm sure a lot of people here went to, $250k is not a ton of money.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910303529751345.html?mod=mostpop
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:40AM
not to beat a dead horse, but @38, please indulge yourself in some ayn rand
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:45AM
@65 - The $1,000 is not a tax cut to about 1/2 of those in the bottom 95% who don't pay $1,000 in taxes. It is a "handout". BO is intentionally deceiving the folks that this is a "tax cut".
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:45AM
McCain's statement was not targeted toward DB readers. If you are not in one of the swing states, disregard.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:45AM
@57 & 58. Please read the fine print. You need only press submit once.
Next, read Obama's economic plan. His proposed programs and program increases require significantly more funding than his "proposed" tax hikes.
Hmmm, that's weird, total liabilities exceeding reserves and current cashflow... where have I heard that scenario before?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:46AM
I've got to say I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see JCarney add the HuffPo quote onto here. Much like we need intervention from the ECB to pull out of this liquidity debable the country in general needs to listen to all sides (if only to make an educated decision). Before you harrass me about 250K, nationalism, socialism, etc. look who the street and most of the largest Hedge MD's are giving money to this election.
OK I'm off my soapbox now, flame away.
-C
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:55AM
Yesterday a top level adviser of Senator Clinton jumped ship The woman is very erudite, essentially she decided to campaign for McCain. Being a lifelong democrat, she cited the democratic parties move to the far left and her opinion that, with a republican president and a democratic congress, the American people would be better served. She felt that the present democratic candidate is far far far more left for her taste and she felt a democratic president and a democratic congress would not serve the people. Her argument about "checks and balances" made an enormous amount of sense.
Posted by diablo , Sep 18, 2008 9:57AM
Idiots:
The only thing Carney quoted from the HP was the quotes from the transcript. He could have quoted the transcript from somewhere else, but for some reason he wanted to throw the name Rachel Sklar in here. He had to provide the link to show you the quote is there. If you are so sensitive, don't click on the link. And you people are supposed to vote?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:58AM
29
No one intelligent runs for president because you get 10-100x the pay in the private sector, comporable perks, and you don't have to deal with people spewing bullshit about you and your family.
Someone calls me a Communist, terrorist or a traitor, he'll be in court by Monday. Someone makes a racist ad, he'll be fired in 30 minutes, and he and his company will be in court by Monday. And so on.
Who wants to put up with that shit?
-
McCain is senile and stupid. I don't know why this surprises anyone. Palin is also literally a moron who couldn't get hired, apart from some "assets," at any Wall Street firm as a fucking coffee girl.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 9:59AM
64 Two things on the Hilary defection: 1) she was a Hilary fund raiser, not advisor 2) She was a Rothschild through marriage and a part time American, who lived half of the year in Europe. So much for her being a barometer of anything.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:00AM
75 Oh, but the ego boost. And Air Force One is bigger and better than any G-five could ever be. Plus, after you finish, you make tons of money.
Posted by girl , Sep 18, 2008 10:00AM
It's a TRANSCRIPT you dumb fucks
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:03AM
And re: 58
How many of you think you're gonna be making $600K or more next year, at the rate this week has gone?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:04AM
to 73, she was quoted as saying she "simply doesn't like obama" as her reason for defecting, take that for what it's worth
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:05AM
#76, saw her interviewed, she actually made a lot of sense.
I think the woman built a semi conductor business but don't quote me on that cause I was busy doing ten other things. Seems she picked up the European hubby later in life.
So here was this very accomplished woman making an enormous amount of sense. Wonders never cease.
Posted by Rex Bannister , Sep 18, 2008 10:05AM
Where in the world is Matt Lauer?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:05AM
Kudlow was on Morning Joe this morning blaming poor people for the subprime crisis. It's all because poor people took out mortgages that they couldn't afford. And, just to spread the blame around, he asserted that this was also the Government's fault because the Fed/OCC demanded that banks end redlining of minority neighborhood and lend a minimum to economically underprivileged zip codes.
So, it's all because of poor people and federal intervention that we are in this crisis?
riiiiiiight....
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:11AM
#83, Is anyone even trying to figure out what is going on on Wall Street and why this crisis is happening?
I've yet to hear anyone, anywhere be able to give a definitive answer to that question.
Not a Kudlow fan but at least he is trying to figure it out which is more than can be said for most commentators.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:11AM
83 - So proposterous, subprime mortgages is a capacity driven market, these guys should understand that.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:11AM
@83 actually, yes it is
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:18AM
#83 - so its NOT the fault of people who took mortgages who couldnt afford them?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:19AM
Decent GDP growth, unemployment at or below historic levels, inflation in line, oil coming off...
Oustide of the financial sector everything doesn't look to bad. Can you honestly tell me that the fundamentals are bad? I'd love to hear the arguments.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:19AM
#83- If you and all your friends didn't get a $400k mortgage on a $50k salary from some college dropout, no, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:27AM
#88 I was going to go on this long winded diatribe giving you an explanation (including disproving your statments), but then I came to my senses and realized that you are too far gone to reason with logically.
You really think the US economy is on good shape? Really? --please pass me some of those 'shrooms.
-C
Posted by GinNTonic , Sep 18, 2008 10:29AM
@83 -
Q: Why are loans being marked down?
A: Because of defaults and the likelihood of defaults are increasing.
That's the root of the problem, things like securitzation have exacerbated the problem, but people not paying off the loan is the real problem.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:30AM
@83-
Riiiiiight? Please--- Pelosi... "The democrats bear no responsibility" GAG ME!
There was more sub prime mortgage fraud then anyone has really exposed! The democrats did push for the redlining and looser lending standards which was how everyone could suddenly get loans and build extensions, swimming pools, own flat scree televisions and remodel their kitchens! It started with the poor then the middle class got involved, investing in other properties to "fip" or "rent". Mortgage bankers were convincing them to take out a 1%-2.5% ARM because they were not going to own the house longer the 2-5 years since it was an "investment". When they could not sell the investment in the time frame expected bc the market slowed, they too were stuck. (just an example of many foreclosures on the market)
It comes down to government intervention and "poor people" who were taking advantage of the intervention. Government hand outs rule again.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:31AM
#90,
Perhaps if you were able to objectively remove yourself from the frothing at the mouth circle jerk of Wall Street, you would realize there are 49 other states in United States, and they seem to be doing reasonably well.
Oh yeah, feel free to look at a graph you smarmy cunt, you might learn something.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:33AM
@84, 86, 87, 89 -- The essential problem is speculation, initially by real estate investors (who are not poor) but then in the secondary market for mortgages to package as RMBS/CMBS and then in the CDS/CDO market. Credit default swaps were originally conceived, like all derivatives, as a way to hedge risk but quickly became a way to gamble with borrowed money. (We've come a long way from the first interest rate swap between IBM and the World Bank). Derivatives were a way to write insurance without state insurance commissioners restricting dividends, lend money without having any capital adequacy restrictions, and realize investment returns without transparency on the trades.
Tell me where poor people and the OCC fit into that bubble?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:36AM
88 You must be Phil Graham. But seriously, things are very tough for the average American. Worried about losses of manufacturing jobs, healthcare benefits; pensions being replaced by 401k's if at all, which in this environment are being whacked. Maybe Graham is right - we're whiners, which I interpret to mean that we're unrealistically longing for a return to that time when a middle class guy with no education could make a decent buck and hold a secure job. No more, unless you go work for the post office.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:39AM
# 88
enjoy the crack!
I would like to see a Paulson/Bloomberg co - ticket. They could run as independents.
Of course they would be portrayed as the "ultimate elites".
As most americans are as informed as # 88,i would expect them vote for palin over my independent ticket.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:39AM
88, 94 It should also be noted that it was largely that speculation that created any prosperty that we saw in the 2002-2007 period - essentially a real estate bubble fueled boom. So much for the Bush II economy.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:40AM
#89, the mortgage was for a million dollars.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:49AM
High taxes on the rich prevent Communism, at least the Communism that Karl Marx envisioned. If things get much worse for the 80% of Americans making less than $92k/year, politicians who make Barack Obama look like Ron Paul will get elected.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:52AM
Most Americans think that the stock market going up today means this BS is over.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:54AM
#98 If you took out a mortgage for $1M, you should know that you need income exceeding $120k.
You have nobody to blame but yourself.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:55AM
but they gave it to me, 101.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 10:57AM
@94 It starts at the consumer level, with the culture of expectation, bloated self-worth, and across-the-board insolvency of the working class. When Chuck Schumer declares that his constituents deserve the right to own a home, Wall Street is tasked with securitizing the ensuing liability. But make no mistake, this bear market is not just caused by failing subprime loans, but by alt-a, prime, heloc, auto AR, credit card, and student loan debts all being overvalued. Does that amount to "speculation?" And let's leave Orange County Choppers out of this.
-86
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:01AM
#58 this is not the social worker's or community organizer website. adjust your tin foil hat and surf back to lala land
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:04AM
@103 -- as a card-carrying member of the liberal movement that is taking over this country, I can only say that we're licking our chops to have this economic argument with the right-wing, free market deregulators like you and Johnny Mac. Logically, you may have some interesting arguments to make. Politically, you are walking into a buzzsaw. Obama '08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- 83/94
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:10AM
hey #105, you have lost 7 out of the last 10 presidential contests.
Learn how to run a fucking campaign and win an election.
Cue the Howard Dean scream....
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:14AM
@105
"As a CREDIT card-carrying member of the liberal movement..."
// fixed
Posted by DS , Sep 18, 2008 11:14AM
@105 - Can you seriously defend socialist/democratic policies right now?
http://1-2knockout.typepad.com/12_knockout/2008/09/this-week-in-hu.html#more
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:16AM
I see the "9/11" reference but you seem to have cut off the part of the quote where he talks about being a POW. Can you post the rest?
Posted by Distressed Debt , Sep 18, 2008 11:45AM
@108 are you serous? Have you been paying attention the last few months? What do you call the government bailing out these businesses? Isn't that socialism? Again, privatize the profits and socialize the losses but we won't call it that because socialism is so bad. Unreal.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:51AM
Any coincidence in the fact that BSC contains BS?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:52AM
103 Chuck Schumer's constituents?? He's written a lot about this in the context of what it takes to capture the vote. (He actually says, listen to the NY Times editorial page and the D's will have 10 seats in congress). He envisions them as a couple from Massapequa. Employed, middle class, church going, white, involved in their community. A few kids that go to college or will be going soon. Basically the broad middle class. Isn't that who owns homes? You have a warped sense if you think otherwise.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:55AM
Stop blaming Community Reinvestment Act for the mess. It was passed in late 70s and you are telling me it was responsible for the financial storm three decades later? And you conveniently left out the fact that the Bush administration weakened the Act a few year back.
And stop blaming "poor" folks for the mess. Sub-prime mortgages are not the only ill of the market. It's spread to alt-a, prime, student loan, credit card and beyond. And really, it almost seems un-American not to get as much credit/loan that the bankers willingly offer you. Isn't that the very "greed" you all sing praises of? How could you condemn them for doing exactly what you preach?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:56AM
i said a hip hop the hippie the hippie
to the hip hip hop, a you dont stop
the rock it to the bang bang boogie say up jumped the boogie
to the rhythm of the boogie, the beat
now what you hear is not a test--i'm rappin to the beat
and me, the groove, and my friends are gonna try to move your feet
see i am wonder mike and i like to say hello
to the black, to the white, the red, and the brown, the purple and yellow
but first i gotta bang bang the boogie to the boogie
say up jump the boogie to the bang bang boogie
let's rock, you dont stop
rock the riddle that will make your body rock
well so far youve heard my voice but i brought two friends along
and next on the mike is my man hank
come on, hank, sing that song
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:57AM
@112 A Charles Schumer apologist? I will now stop wasting my time on DB and go back to grinding on World of Warcraft.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 11:59AM
113 And don't forget it all happened on Reagan's watch. In the 80s, credit cards went from being a convenient payment mechanism to a major source of consumer debt. Which jump started the consumer economy and is in fact the source of all that you Reagan worshippers like about the man and his skanky wife.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:03PM
115 Not an apologist. Just stating the facts, which are widely published. Schumer's model constituents are as I've described. He calls them Joe and Marge (or something like that) from Massapequa and, smart guy that he is, crafts policies to suit them, cause he believes that thats where the votes are.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:06PM
115 Not to beat the Schumer thing, but this was found in like 10 secs on Google:
Sen. Charles Schumer says he has spent the better part of his life thinking about an imaginary, bedrock middle-class family from Massapequa, Long Island. He calls his composite clan The Baileys. He's held conversations with Joe and Eileen Bailey -- "How can I convince them that the government is their friend?" And he knows where they stand --"Joe doesn't like illegal immigration. He plays by the rules and he thinks everyone else should too." He thinks so highly of the Baileys, he's made them the centerpiece of "Positively American" -- his first book and a 270-page Democratic strategy for winning back the middle class.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:13PM
also found in ten seconds on google:
Here's from the press release issued by IndyMac's regulator, the Office of Thrift Supervision: "The OTS has determined that the current institution, IndyMac Bank, is unlikely to be able to meet continued depositors’ demands in the normal course of business and is therefore in an unsafe and unsound condition. The immediate cause of the closing was a deposit run that began and continued after the public release of a June 26 letter to the OTS and the FDIC from Senator Charles Schumer of New York. The letter expressed concerns about IndyMac’s viability. In the following 11 business days, depositors withdrew more than $1.3 billion from their accounts.
"This institution failed today due to a liquidity crisis," OTS Director John Reich said. "Although this institution was already in distress, I am troubled by any interference in the regulatory process."
Francisco d'Anconia votes for Schumer.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:15PM
#93
Very cute acting all tough and beligerant on a message board. Thank you for the comic relief (you know what they say about fighting online being like the special Olympics?)
Fortunately a majority of the people here and it seems in the US regardless of what state they domocile in agree with my viewpoint that the economy isnt all 'Yee-Haw' (thought those terms would be understandable). I wish you the very best, amy your crops come in aplenty.
-C
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:19PM
119 I guess yr point is Schumer = bad? I expressed no opinion on that. I was instead disputing your claim (103) that Chuck Schumer's consituents don't deserve to own a home by pointing out that he sees his constituents basically plain living middle class people. If not them, who should own homes. With your lack of logic, I hope they have you binding and copying at the office, and keep you far away from the live ammunition.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:21PM
93 If anything, I think its the whole NYC region that's been doing well. Or up to this week anyway. The real estate market has held up, unemployment basically unchanged. On my travels outside this area though I've noticed significant cause for alarm.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:25PM
hahaha would you believe selling subprime loans?
- 103/119
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:32PM
Anybody notice that the Fox News Electoral College Map starts Obama out at -8 votes?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:37PM
124 Well thats an unbiased source. Look at the one on realclearpolitics.com
Posted by TheUpwardlyMob , Sep 18, 2008 12:40PM
@116 - Leave Nancy out of this.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:43PM
To all the assholes that says "why doesn't anyone smart run?"
You had him, his name is Ron Paul. You fuckers thought that "radical ideas" shouldn't be accepted in Washington. Keep peddling those dollars and wasting money like its going out of style.
I am so short everything US.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:44PM
126 Nancy's fair game cause she was basically running the show at the end, when RR was in the first throws of Alzheimers.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:45PM
To all the assholes that says "why doesn't anyone smart run?"
You had him, his name is Ron Paul. You fuckers thought that "radical ideas" shouldn't be accepted in Washington. Keep peddling those dollars and wasting money like its going out of style.
I am so short everything US.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:47PM
To all the assholes that says "why doesn't anyone smart run?"
You had him, his name is Ron Paul. You fuckers thought that "radical ideas" shouldn't be accepted in Washington. Keep peddling those dollars and wasting money like its going out of style.
I am so short everything US.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 12:50PM
@122 I would agree for the most part. If one reads what Roubini has to say. (granted a bit of an alarmist but he's been fairly spot on the last 5 years or so) we are in the middle innings of the ball game.
If I may take this analogy a step further:
Innings 1 consumer gets beaten up (mortgage defaults etc.) Immediate economic impact aside from housing not that great.
Inning 2: Mortgage defaults lead to loss and write downs by investment houses [including many firms abroad--this is important later]
Inning 3: Investment firms are forced to properly mark books as a result there is less absolute value and thus much less leverage and liquidity.
Inning 4: Liquidity tightens up significantly as a direct result of 3. Our friends from inning 3 really tighten up since they already took their lumps and are unwilling to take on risk/lose capital. LIBOR and overnights skyrocket, Treasuries trade at absurd levels due to (domestic) flight to quality. Leveraged firms that rely on liquidy go under or merge with deeper pockets. Layoffs.
Inning 5: Liquidity trap affect smaller business. Banks no longer lend out cash to consumers. Letters of credit are no longer accepted by foreign entities. [this is already happening]. Smaller bussiness begin laying off workers. Larger firm layoffs permeate throughout local economies (NYC hospitality business, real estate etc.).
Inning 6: Smaller firms and those who supply them tighten up--worker layoffs accelerate for them. RE in those areas (from innings 4-5) severely depreciate.
Inning 7 Relief pitcher comes in.
I actually think the moves by the ECB and BoE are most critical in all this. The one indicator that I am paying the
most attention to is the LIBOR. We'll see how it behaves tonight and I'll get to innings 8-9.
-C
P.S. (too long didnt write)
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 1:04PM
@ 38 "I understand that higher taxes equal less money in your pockets but this can’t be the only issue on which you make a decision to vote for a candidate"
NO its not. of course, money isnt as important as the issue of abortion.
are u serious? the only issue u should worry about is money and safety. we all know obama is more than qualified to protect us right? not some pow veteran of vietnam who sacrifices everything for his country.
right.
too smart, didnt read.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 2:09PM
What difference does it make if he understands it or not? Running for President of the US not of the Fed. Neither McCain nor Obama really understand the markets; this should be evident from either of their prepared comments about the current situation.
McCain ftw
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 2:14PM
Maybe we need 9/16 and 9/17 commissions.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 2:41PM
Neither candidate could run a large company - for the most part that's true of all politicians....now and then you get a successful biz person enter politics but not usually make it to the White House (would not pass the vetting, would not want life opened up and scrutinized). This is why we'll never see Bloomberg run for President. It's the congress members on financial committees that cause most of the problems and I agree with @9 - get rid of Barney Frank and clones and we may stand a chance.
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 3:08PM
I hope you vote McCain. It would be amusing to see the rest of the world hate the Americans even more
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 3:08PM
@132: You think when the patriots - the real ones, not the GOP chickenhawks - raised up in 1776, they only cared about money and safety? There's more to America than greed. People like you should have their citizenship revoked!
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 4:50PM
@137 WTF? People like someone on this blog that exercises his or her first amendment rights with an opinion you don't like should have citizenship revoked??? What country do you think you're in?
Posted by guest , Sep 18, 2008 6:08PM
Exactly when was McCain's last cognitive assessment? Methinks he is due for one.
Posted by DS , Sep 18, 2008 6:40PM
@110 - I never said I supported socialism in any form or by anyone - Republican or Democrat. We didn't have a capitalist economy before the govt started bailing companies out though. The existence of the Fed prevents us from having free markets.
"Since the creation of the Federal Reserve, middle and working-class Americans have been victimized by a boom-and-bust monetary policy. In addition, most Americans have suffered a steadily eroding purchasing power because of the Federal Reserve's inflationary policies. This represents a real, if hidden, tax imposed on the American people.
From the Great Depression, to the stagflation of the seventies, to the burst of the dotcom bubble last year, every economic downturn suffered by the country over the last 80 years can be traced to Federal Reserve policy. The Fed has followed a consistent policy of flooding the economy with easy money, leading to a misallocation of resources and an artificial "boom" followed by a recession or depression when the Fed-created bubble bursts."
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr091002b.htm
The govt is the reason we're in this mess to begin with.
Posted by guest , Oct 03, 2008 6:46PM
No he doesn't - and neither does Palin!
Read a funny article at WWN ... Palintology?!? died..
http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/palintology-revealed/#more-3066