The WSJ is reporting that the Fed is mulling over a possible rescue of AIG that would offer the company a secured bridge loan and result in the government controlling the firm.
Update: The Times and CNBC’s David Faber have heard the same. In exchange for 80 percent stake in the firm, Faber says A.I.G. will get an $85 billion loan, which will be secured and included incentives for quick asset-sales by the insurer. Per the deal, the government would get warrants for most of AIG’s equity, severely diluting shareholder value.
Update II: According to Reuters, The Bald and The Beard are currently briefing Congress on the deal.
Update III: Precise details still being hammered out but according to sources, Bernanke plans to name himself CEO. (Lay off me, just trying to lighten the mood in here.)
You’re probably going to think I’m making fun of him, but I am being completely sincere when I say, if you feel like killing yourselves, check out the heartfelt letter Hank Greenberg sent to AIG CEO Robert B. Willumstad earlier today.
I usually don’t make offers like this but Mr. Greenberg, if you need one, there’s a hug with your name on it right here. Also, on a more serious note, please feel free to forward me the names of the guilty parties in ruining the company you built with your bare fucking hands, you WWII hero, and I will gladly spend the rest of my tenure on this company raining down righteous indignation all over their asses. Pro bono.
Update IV: Though turning it down would’ve indeed been hilarious, the Journal says the AIG board has approved the plan.
Update V: Part of the deal requires that existing management be fired, according to CNBC. They’ll be replaced by the Turnaround Team of Chuck Prince, Stan O’Neal, and Jimmy Cayne, who are all currently living together and can thus use the carpool lane.
Here’s a brain buster for you, that I’m mostly asking of the AIG inner sanctum members joining us this evening but anyone can feel free to answer– when they were sitting around making the decision to say “thanks but we’re good” to PE, who did they think was going to come along with a more desirable alternative to the shit that’s gone down tonight? Really, who or what gave them the confidence to say “we’re holding out for something better,” besides a severe blow to the head?
Update VI: Per The Fed’s website, it’s official. The press release:
The Federal Reserve Board on Tuesday, with the full support of the Treasury Department, authorized the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to lend up to $85 billion to the American International Group (AIG) under section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act. The secured loan has terms and conditions designed to protect the interests of the U.S. government and taxpayers.
The Board determined that, in current circumstances, a disorderly failure of AIG could add to already significant levels of financial market fragility and lead to substantially higher borrowing costs, reduced household wealth, and materially weaker economic performance.
The purpose of this liquidity facility is to assist AIG in meeting its obligations as they come due. This loan will facilitate a process under which AIG will sell certain of its businesses in an orderly manner, with the least possible disruption to the overall economy.
The AIG facility has a 24-month term. Interest will accrue on the outstanding balance at a rate of three-month Libor plus 850 basis points. AIG will be permitted to draw up to $85 billion under the facility.
The interests of taxpayers are protected by key terms of the loan. The loan is collateralized by all the assets of AIG, and of its primary non-regulated subsidiaries. These assets include the stock of substantially all of the regulated subsidiaries. The loan is expected to be repaid from the proceeds of the sale of the firm’s assets. The U.S. government will receive a 79.9 percent equity interest in AIG and has the right to veto the payment of dividends to common and preferred shareholders.
What about the shareholders…..
Shareholders? Fried. They are talking about warrants.
Pretty certain no one is expecting to make money right now, if that’s what your getting at…
Crap move though.
This is absolutely disgusting. It amazes me that the criminals who run these institutions continue to receive their millions and are having their institutions being saved by the crooked Fed.
Meanwhile, we the taxpayers have to foot the bill to pay the bailout. We are subsidizing these criminals on Wall Street. We, the taxpayers, struggling to find jobs and struggling to pay our bills, while we are being forced to pay this bailout.
I refuse to pay my taxes to support an institution that’s run by unethical criminals. Fuck AIG.
Interesting. I know a lot of little investors who bought AIG today thinking they were helping the company. I guess the professional wall street people sold to the mom and pop kitchen table investors.
WSJ is right fo shizzle ma nizzle
no 4. Please watch cramer’s program on CNBC tonight. It repeats at 11. He goes through the entire situation and makes you realize that the effect on the market as a whole would be untenable.
See? Nationalized insurance. It’s one step from nationalized health care!
I agree with the sentiment of Fuck AIG, but I would rather not deal with the CDS implosion tomorrow when they follow Lehman into BK court.
Didn’t M. Greenberg buy a slug of LEH stock on the deal at 28?
Agree. Fuck AIG!
They will survive under a bankruptcy. Someone get some sense into the Feds.
What’s next? Bailing out GM? Citigroup?
Fuck this.
WHo would allow/advise a small investor to buy AIG. That is ridiclous.
Mom and Pop are already supporting wall street via their tax payments.
Anyone at GM/Ford listening – start writing billion of CDS (with exposure around the world). You will get your bailout!
It’s shitty, yes, because the shareholders get completely diluted by the government…but I don’t even want to think about the shitstorm that would’ve come if they HADN’T gotten the loan.
11 (aptly numbered)
They might survive in 11, but a lot of other people won’t. The scenarios are atrocious.
Unless you bought AIG stock today, you should like this news.
No. 7, I just cannot agree with this. This is fucking disgusting that the Fed is giving AIG a bailout.
The economy is already on the verge of collapse anyway. Yet, nobody is learning a damn thing from this whole debacle other than if you’re a rich prick, the Fed will bail you out so you don’t have to worry if you made any poor decisions that have fucked the economy.
@4, I think you’re lost. nytimes.com is over that way.
Sure, why not? Let’s stick the taxpayer with another few trillion in debt. Great job Bush/Cheney, the war criminals & profiteers are bankrupting this great nation. The dollar will be worth as much as the peso in the near future. Americans are suckers.
USSA lives on. Amazing how these phony republicans are turning out to be as or more socialist than the democrats. I’m short AIG so I’m getting richer by the day but it sickens me to know that I’m still long this insolvent company because my tax dollars will be bailing reckless management.
Uncle Scam is raping the US taxpayer once again. Let’s bailout the whole world while the US dollar sinks below the peso. Bush/Cheney should be in prison along with Paulson.
@1 Are there people who actually rode this into the ground? Probably the same with Fred and Fan. Common http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=FRE&t=3m
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=FNM&t=3m
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=LEH&t=3m
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=WM&t=3m
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AIG&t=3m
SPODE
What are these bleeding heart scum doing on Dealbreaker? Go back to your POS consulting firm and hug a tree.
People that actually understand the situation DO NOT want to see AIG fail for the sake of “making an example.” Bad firm to do that with, putting it mildly.
I think they should be broken up as well as diluted to nothing to prevent this bullshit from recurring, but I do not want the financial system to fail.
ALRIGHT! Nothing gets me up like diluted shareholder equity. Woohoo!
We all own yet another financial institution. As someone posted the other day, if this keeps up we’ll end up owning most domestic industries and be calling each other “comrade”.
Fed to Give A.I.G. $85 Billion Loan and Take 80% Stake -nyt
@15 they are not bailing out the shareholders (who are wiped out) they are bailing out you and the town you live. AIG is counter party to some 70 million people either through policies, muni bonds, cds. Some of this is insured risk but some is not.
This firm is the definition of too big to fail. If this doesn’t happen there will be chaos in the markets tomorrow and Wamu and Wachovia’s existence will be numbered in the hours
Ooooh, bond holders getting slaughtered too. This just keeps getting better.
I really do not want to know how fucked up AIG is that they need this much capital on these terms to avoid BK.
NYTIMES REPORTING THAT THE FED WILL TAKE AN 80% STAKE IN THE COMPANY IN RETURN FOR THE LOAN. WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE VALUE OF THE EQUITY???? ANY OPINIONS????
Fuck AIG. These pigs who run AIG should be thrown in jail for their criminal actions. I love to see all these rich corporate assholes thrown in jail because they made so much money at the expense and suffering of the taxpayers. People are losing jobs by the millions and these corporate pigs need to have their money and status stripped and thrown into federal prison so they can get a taste of what they have done to the people.
Fuck you AIG. Fuck Wall Street. I lost my fucking job because of these corporate pigs who fucking ruined the economy and stole millions for themselves. I’d like nothign more than to see these corporate criminals rot in federal prison.
@21
Taxpayers money should not be used to such shit. If they want, they should get the other foreign governments to chip in. Otherwise, why should we pay to clean up this mess while the other countries benefit from the consequences!
@26
Close your eyes what do you see?
@24. You are an idiot. That’s called capitalism. The weak don’t deserve to survive.
Oh snap!!!! Nationalized! 80% stake taken
Banks are hoarding cash and AIG has assets that they can’t move, so why shouldn’t the Fed offer a jumbo bridge loan? It will probably end up a sweet deal for the Fed.
Is today’s Dow action what you “masters of the universe” call the dead cat bounce?
This is basically bankruptcy for shareholders and many times worse than bankruptcy for people higher in the capital structure.
It’s way better for everyone else.
@27 criminal actions? Look in the fucking mirror, if you didn’t buy a $400k house on $50k salary we wouldn’t be in this fucking mess. Or better yet blame the ratings agencies who rated your piece of shit mortgage as part of the AAA traunch.
Most of Wall Street are decent people who like to make money (legally).
Stop blaming us because your an idiot and got hosed by a high school dropout a/k/a mortgage broker.
@27, you’ll probably hate this
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aKXe2Xgflk4c&refer=home#
CAN SOMEONE PREDICT WHERE THE EQUITY OPENS TOMORROW? ITS TRADING AT 2.40. ITS ONLY AN 80% STAKE. IS THIS THING DONE? TRADES AT 50C TOMORROW?
37 – zero.
If you are long, turn off the capslock and go find a shotgun.
@35 Well said.
@17- well said!
This really makes no sense because it really is only the beginning. I completely understand the situation and if AIG is allowed to fail (which it should be) and the market deals with it (which it will), we will all be better able to handle all of the other eminent counterparty defaults that we are looking at in the near future. A tragedy in AIG could help the markets figure out how to deal with the eminent GM (etc…) situation.
@35, fuck you #27. The people on Wall Street are fucking criminals who are raking in millions for the suffering of others.
I hope all the fucking Wall Street bankers rot in fucking federal prison for committing fraud and white collar crime. The government should throw ALL OF the fucking Wall Street criminals in jail for deceit.
I may only make $50K but at least I have decency and ethics unlike all the corporate pigs on Wall Street who are raking in millions on the economic suffering of others.
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaKkuJVy2YA
ZERO? THE STOCK IS TRADING FIRMLY AT AROUND 2.50. YES ITS DILUTIVE BUT SHAREHOLDERS ARE NOT BEING WIPED OUT. DOESNT EVERYONE AGREE THE STOCK TRADES AROUND HERE TOMORROW?
Fuck AIG. Fuck their counterparties. Fuck their policyholders. And fuck Hank Greenberg. Fuck Helicopter Ben and Crazy Al too.
Everybody wants to live at the expense of someone else. Well guess what, you can’t all do that, it’s impossible!
Where’s the US Dollar in all of this? Just keep printing more and hope the chinks keep accepting it?
The bad assets need to be liquidated. AIG isn’t illiquid, they just don’t want to face reality.
Wow, now we’re throwing in racial slurs against Asians?
@ 41, hilarious stuff!
I can practically see you now – hen pecking away at your ergonomic keyboard, furrowed brow and all. Utter confusion, coupled with anger, do not make for the most enlightening posts.
@17:
“Stop blaming us because your an idiot and got hosed by a high school dropout”
Even high school dropouts know that it’s “you’re” and not “your”.
The Feds have sent a bad msg this week. LEH wasn’t big enough not to fail but AIG (not even a bank) isn’t. So now the incentive is to take on as much risk as possible chasing alpha just as long as your big enough to affect the entire system.
If I read this (NYT) reporting right, it means that the government is putting a stranglehold on the company to force a substantial liquidation of its assets, and will seize it if that is not done.
Wow. And AIG turned down private equity for wanting too much control, eh?
What’s the fair value of AIG now? $5?
ugh, who linked “main street” into here? its like a yahoo message board now. don’t complain about something you could never possibly understand.
@43 Mr. Caps all your answers may be found at the Yahoo message boards.
Everyone please go to Yahoo immediately. They have excellent coverage and they know where the stock will open, trade, and close tomorrow.
@41 That includes you to buddy.
SPODE
Long live the United Socialist States of America! Nothing like the government running the economy, right comrade? Soon ve vill all be trinking vodka vrom ze motherland!
I don’t think that this will hit the dollar very hard. A significant rate cut would probably hit the dollar much harder than this, and result in a much greater net increase in the money supply.
I suspect in the long run this bailout might even pay for itself by a combination of AIG recovering once we finally restore our market mojo or by avoiding collateral damage to main street finance.
The fuck AIG guy needs a tranquilizer dart to his ass. He’s spamming this joint. And that guy with the caps lock on, better see your eye doctor tomorrow. You may need some surgery.
AIG has some pretty extensive overseas operations, particularly in Asia. I wonder if there will be local regulatory problems with having a US government controlled entity participating in those markets.
Love you Bess.
Fuck the criminals at AIG. How the fuck can the Fed work in cahoots with the criminals of AIG?
I don’t fucking care what the consequences are if AIG fails. I lost my fucking job b/c of the goddamn crooks on Wall Street so I’m more than happy to see all those Wall Street fuckers understand the pain they caused.
Fuck all you liberals bitches on this board. I’d rather have my tax money go to AIG than to fucking trash on welfare who are too lazy and pathetic to have a real job and make serious money.
Don’t be jealous that you’re just a peon. Go back to 14th street and continue to lay on the benches in Union Sqaure with your skateboard you fumb dickheads.
McCain/Palin 08 BITCHES
the shareholders don’t get fully wiped out and there should be no reason why the debt holders don’t continue to receive their payments. The Fed secured the bridge with collateral and took a crapload of warrants. Debt should still be paid off
Fuck you #59. I’d see you rather have your fucking tax money go to the fucking CRIMINALS who run AIG. I’m on fucking welfare b/c I lost my job b/c those Wall Street fucks laid me off even though their corporate CEOs continue to gorge themselves millions.
fuck Wall Street bankers who rake millions. i hope you fucking bitches enjoy all the DIRTY MONEY you earned while millions of us lose our jobs and homes.
FUCK YOU Larry Kudlow.
I knew getting into this that I would never make much money working on Wall Street, but it’s worth it when I hear how grateful and understanding everyday Americans are for the service I provide.
Fuck you #61. I got laid off too but you have to be the biggest fuckhead not to realize that if AIG goes, your ass could kiss another job goodbye during this lifetime.
Thank you #59. Yahoo Finance is an excellent source of information. Perhaps you can check it out before you put on a vertically striped shirt and B&T over to Joshua Tree tonight.
@37
Don’t despair. It will be bid at 25 cents in the morning.
@49 True true true, Turned down PE for govt liquidation. When AIG was given the option of “fuck you or fuck you harder” they went with “fuck me harder.” Who’s the next dumbfuck CEO to piss in the wind.
@51 You did by calling the tip hot line. JCAR and Bess blogged the tip. DB is recognized as an “inside track” and mom and pop show up in crocs and wife beaters. Loose lips sink ships. How does DB grow as a business without the Yahoo element? It doesn’t. Welcome to Yahoo 2 bitches. I HOPE DB GETS MORE IDIOTS WHO TYPE IN CAPS.
I would much rather read “mayo, too long didn’t read it, sham-wow, eat my ass” than all this conspiracy, burn the government crap. My crap is moderately annoying but this stuff. Fuuuuuck.
SPODE
“Helicopter Ben”
Yes that B in Econ 101 junior year of state college must not be helping now
From #59:
Eat shit everyone. And I’ve never been to the Joshua Tree bc its filled with Jersey hicks. Wouldn’t be caught dead there…but it looks like #65 knows how to prepare for his crowd.
#4 – on the take politicians protecting the thieving financiers who fund their re-election, change the system vote against all incumbents
#7 – screaming Cramer himself is untenable
We need FREE Enterprise, and a law to keep companies from becoming TOO BIG to fail.
What is the term of the “bridge”?
What happens if liquidation does not happen?
Wonder who the preferred and bond bag holders are?
I see where one money market fund [Central Reserve?] got bite so bad by LEH that they broke $1 NAV.
Would all the AIG baggers please identify yourself.
#64, perhaps. But it’s worth it to see pompous Ivy League educated bankers unemployed and BEGGING for food. Of course, b/c they have ivy league degrees and shit, they will probably get a job even though they are fucking incompetent and caused this economic mess.
Where’s Rodney King when you need him?
On the plus side McCain has the economy rated AAA/AA3 (fundamentally sound).
-C
On a different note heard the reserve fund (60 billion) money market fund broke the buck
On a different note heard the reserve fund (60 billion) money market fund broke the buck
AIG needs to raise $85B because they were downgraded 3 ratings so it set off triggers for them to have more capital so that is why it is off form the original $20B they originally said they needed.
I am part of the financial system that got laid off recently and I believe we need this bailout of AIG to survive. I just think that they need to remove the chairman ASAP and he better not get any sort of a golden parachute like all of these other schmucks at all these companies who are walking away with millions and not having to worry about their falling companies any longer…give me that job anyday!!
71 – The bridge loan is to allow AIG to liquify its assets. The bridge loan will keep people happy while AIG does that. AIG will then repay the government, with interest, from the proceeds of the liquified assets.
If AIG does not liquidate or fails to repay, the government will take over AIG.
This is actually a very good idea, to be honest. It keeps AIG functional and doesn’t “reward” them with anything, as the interest is going to mean they pay back more than they get, and if they don’t pay, they are eradicated.
AIG, unlike LEH, is not worthless. LEH was worthless.
AIG’s failure would cue a rerun of the great depression, but where does this end? The moral hazard in the U.S. economy just went infinite. GM and Ford just need to hire Weil and ask the Treasury to call their bluff. They should do it tomorrow (or on Wamu’s day) for maximum effect. This country is completely fucked.
@35 hahahahahahahahaha
This is what you get when clowns are running the show. Where the fuck is the savings glut now? What is government’s position really about moral hazard? Bail BSC, FNM, FRE, tough on LEH, hold the rate today, and immediately bail AIG out?
We have this problem because the guys running the show, the Fed and Hank, are the most confused players in the market.
What’s with that picture nytimes.com has up? The scene outside AIG consists of six people and a camera?
4 1/2 hours now. Hope the deal goes through or you are looking at twenty years to recover your 2005 (non-house)wealth instead of ~ 3.
If you bought a house at the peak, you’re just screwed, but if you are reading this board, you should know better.
Do the warrants have to be exercised? Suppose, theoretically, that AIG sells enough assets to cover its liabilities, does the gov need to have equity in AIG? Why wouldn’t shareholders be left with something?
I gotta say the whole mgmt playing chicken with their company against getting fresh capital from PE or reducing exposures through asset sales is ridiculous. You’d think after Bear the senior mds and c-suite guys would wise up and get rid of what they have to, take the write off, avoid future marks, and move on with life (and at least retain some equity).
But no one wants to budge on terms or on price, and at the end of the day the sellers get whacked and the buyers sit there wondering why someone would walk away from a solid trade (solid defined as market pricing on a specific asset class). Is avoiding a mark on sale because you had to take accept a bigger discount really worth keeping the exposure on the books/potential to future marks???
Is it machiso that these guys think they’re the best negotiators since manhattan was acquired for some glass beads and taking a discount/not getting what they want would make them look bad?
-Industry Nin
#72
I am 59,64, and 70.
Care about your own situation not some pathetic loser that has nothing else but a bag of money and a Princeton degree. They are mostly ugly geeky losers anyway I went to Wharton and my fucking ape boss laid me off after only 6 months of working. I am 22. They completely fucked my resume. I have no experience and will now have to rebegin an anlayst program with fucking new grads whenever they begin hiring us entrylevel turds again.
I am simply saying that I would rather give my money to AIG to prevent a meltdown than lazy tree hugging hold hands and light a candle losers, drugdealing trash project people, and douchebage NYTimes readers who think you cannot be cultured unless you’re a raging liberal democrat who screams asinine shit like “Fuck Capitalism”.
I too would like beat Dick FUld
73 I must add, Palin is a total empty headed looser. Just read Brooks’ column in the Times. Impressed that even a conservative sees through her.
YO I’m so happy I got laid off. Now I finally have time to ride a bike and apply skin care products to my face.
RE: GM and Ford
For both the above companies, the financing operations have been for years larger than their manufacturing operations in terms of revenue and profit. Whether the government would step in on their behalf on the basis of those two is possible, but not likely, the Chrysler precedent of 25 years ago not withstanding. (Govt made a huge profit on Chrysler bailout, and was paid back early). The unknowable part of the F & GM question is that there are national security implications to the liquidation of the two companies, the specifics of which cannot be debated in public.
If the economy were fucked then the Dow would have tanked today based on all of the news the past 3 days…it seems to me that the street knows what it is doing
And AIG employs over 100k people worldwide..I am all for a bailout if it costs me some extra tax money because I eventually want to find another job–not sitting on the sidelines behind even more people money because
thank you @63
@77
AIG is almost certainly insolvent. Why do you think noone in the private sector would give them a loan?
#76 is an half an idiot. Yes they got downgraded triggering the need for more capital, but the main reason it went from $40b to $75b to $100b is because counterparties are demanding they post collateral on their CDS book.
Back to #77, look at AIGs balance sheet. It doesn’t look half bad does it? Well that’s because the value of the assets are far overstated and liabilities are currently exploding as the spreads on CDS go through the roof. The company is worthless IMO.
Talk about uncharted territory. Any thoughts from the esteemed DB intelligencia..what does this mean? (in practice, I understand it conceptually)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/business/17fund.html
Talk about a reason for a retail run, this sounds like the most ominous news yet.
-C
Gah. I’m also half an idiot for using the word an 2x. I was going to say #76 was a complete idiot, but he was half right.
“Bailouts rule.”
- Robert B. Willumstad
No one in the private sector gave AIG a loan because (1) AIG was being hard-assed about what they would give up in exchange when the numbers were smaller, and ; (2) Once the numbers got bigger, i.e. $75 billion big, well, YOU try to raise that much for anything on Wall Street right now. In 24 hours.
No one has that much money except Uncle Sam.
I’m thinking about cancelling my life insurance with them just out of protest.
YO I’m so happy I got laid off. Now I finally have time to ride a bike and apply skin care products to my face.
@96, Cancel your life instead, that would be more entertaining.
Agree with Spode. AIG turns down PE for government bailout? Where is that upside – is this not the elephant in the room that no one reminds us about. But I digress…
Bess, another classic post. As well as the “The Bald and The Beard.” You keep triggering shit down like a sniper on ridge. Cock. Bang.
YO I’m so happy I got laid off. Now I finally have time to ride a bike and apply skin care products to my face.
YO I’m so happy I got laid off. Now I finally have time to ride a bike and apply skin care products to my face.
I think the 85 billion figure ought let everyone knows that the amount bantied about over the past three days were, shall we say, “insufficient.”
how convenient that the natl security considerations are so covert. they can be bailed out and no one can complain
To the guy who is 22 years old:
Close your mouth, man up, and learn how to take a shot. At 22, you haven’t a clue what this world can throw at you. Being laid off from an entry level job, when you had time to accumulate not even a small stake in anything, and bitching like its the end of the world, makes me think you are probably better of in library science than high finance. Just a thought…
knows=know amount=amounts
btdt: word.
#85 – Wharton 1977 – never went to The Street – make 5x median family in state where I work/live – all the toys, boat, sports car, PAID for house -
my advice – forget the ring, go rural and get a real life – find/create a real business making a real product, put some good, solid country boys and girls to work – you will never regret it
#77 – in a liquidation the values will not hold, will generate less $$$s
and exactly what does the FED have it they do take possession – a broken something
how convenient that the natl security considerations are so covert. they can be bailed out and no one can complain
AIG BOARD APPROVES RESCUE PLAN – WSJ
@ 91
who said they couldnt get a loan…CNBC stated today that they had offers from private equity companies for parts of the company but they turned them down. Get your facts straight…as for the suggestion that JPM and Morgan Stanley get involved to lend them money they just do not have any to give..liquidity issues!!
and it was stated that because of their downgrade they need to have more backing to prevent bankruptcy
I do not think they are worthless at all..parts of their business are still very good
I’m curious: Where does the Fed (not the Treasury!) get the money to backstop or fund all of these bailouts?
@ 91
who said they couldnt get a loan…CNBC stated today that they had offers from private equity companies for parts of the company but they turned them down. Get your facts straight…as for the suggestion that JPM and Morgan Stanley get involved to lend them money they just do not have any to give..liquidity issues!!
and it was stated that because of their downgrade they need to have more backing to prevent bankruptcy
I do not think they are worthless at all..parts of their business are still very good
what did the fed give out for associate numbers at AIG?
To the guy who is 22 years old:
Close your mouth, man up, and learn how to take a shot. At 22, you haven’t a clue what this world can throw at you. Being laid off from an entry level job, when you had time to accumulate not even a small stake in anything, and bitching like its the end of the world, makes me think you are probably better of in library science than high finance. Just a thought…
What’s everyone’s favorite night serum or moisturizer?
Bess, please don’t press the submit button again and again…
1) Given the choice the Fed/Treas would not have gone that route
2) I think it’s pretty obvious they didn’t intend to go this route earlier in the week
3) It should be pretty obvious that they changed their mind for some reason on this particular company at this particular time as they digested the Lehman/Merrill debacle and began to focus here
I’m all about moral hazard but this would have been too much and they understood that once they got a clear view of how AIG is webbed into everything. They’ll wind this down gradually.
If you bought equity – that was dumb. Back end of the capital structure. How many times will this happen before people learn that equity is an ugly place when the shit hits the fan (residual claim – it’s basically why you diversify into many smaller positions). Maybe you own a very deep out of the money option now…maybe.
If you think this is a bailout that is unwarranted and this wouldn’t cause a major financial shitstorm as everything blows sky high at once (ie – the reality the Fed/Treas are avoiding by doing this)…you live in ignorance, it’s supposed to be bliss so you’re screwing up. Also – please stop posting, we have enough issues with Mayo and Shamwow diluting the comments.
I plan to go long and sell volatility on AIG (by selling ITM puts) if AIG ever gets to the $1 level tomorrow Wednesday. I will do it at even a higher price ($1.25 to $1.5) at the first sign of a bottom forming. I will be watching it carefully.
Today’s price of $1.25 was I think a (or near) a short term bottom.
Reasons on how and why to play it the way I intend to are below.
http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/09/aig-solvency-crisis-solvent-or.html
AIG board approved something? No shit. As if they had any choice – oh they could’ve rejected it like they did the PE offers from a day or two ago…brilliant bunch of monkeys they are.
AIG basically could’ve had PE save them – to use a prison metaphor they had their pants down and PE offered to get them outta the shower but they refused to be someone’s bitch but now bubba has an erection and their pants are still down so they go calling Uncie Sam to help them? Let’em get f’d. Bald and Beard should’ve said PE made you an offer – Hank is trying to make an offer – take it or go call Weil Gotshal and shapren your pencils to fill out that bk petition.
But I digress…
@111
Oh shit, man. You are opening a can of worms with that question. Last time somebody asked it it went on for three days and nights, getting a bit more vituperative by the hour. For the love of God, let it go and just accept the fact. If not, call David Rockefeller and he will explain all. But then he will have to kill you. Your call.
I just want to say that sham-wow changed my life! we’re so sure it will change yours, we GIVING it away! All you pay for is the shipping.
Act now!
What’s everyone’s favorite night serum or moisturizer?
@35: have you really deceived yourself so bad that you would blame the person who is offered a great deal on a loan over the person who gave them that loan in the first place? Ridiculous.
OK, who’s next? I say FDIC.
@Dan Daoust– what are you talking about?
I’m not sure AIG equity is worthless. I’m not an insurance analyst and the final details are not out yet, but…
Stock is trading up in after-hours. It’s a loan with warrants for 80%. The stock already traded waaaaay down up to Sept 16. YTD probably down 90%? Yes that CDS portfolio is toxic and value-destroying, but this crisis was mostly a liquidity not a solvency situation. 80% dilution is probably captured by the downtrade YTD on stock. Investors were pricing in fire-sale liquidation. That’s off the table. The insurance assets are still great businesses.
Makes me sick that debt investors are bailed out. Will be checking into a mental institution if equity is not in fact worthless. Can we impeach a Treasury secretary?
Financial system needs this bailout to survive, but it does not deserve to survive. Sure, it’s full of hard-working honest people, who like to make money legally. And I feel for you
But you’re in the same boat as all the mortgage lenders. They were just doing what the computer told them to, give this guy an ARM, make tons of fees, etc. It was a shitty idea even if you’re not a shitty person.
Good people should receive rewards. But they shouldnt be rewarded by a system (current financial system) that generates rewards by fucking things up
NEW TOPIC ALREADY….
WHAT IS EVERYONE’S SKINCARE REGIMEN?
@111 I’ll stop peeking behind the curtain now.
This is a good deal and a proper use of the Fed’s lender of last resort option.
@111 “I’m curious: Where does the Fed (not the Treasury!) get the money to backstop or fund all of these bailouts?”
They print more as needed.
OKAY SO EVERYONE ON HERE IS POSTING SHIT AND NOBODY ON HERE KNOWS WHETHER WE OPEN AT 5 BUCKS OR 50 CENTS TOMORROW!?!!?!
JUST POST $5. 50C. CURIOUS AS TO THE SENTIMENT??
“… The Bald and The Beard ….”
a classic, just frigging classic
:)
@119
I re-read your post and you DO NOT have a clue. The silly name-calling is the first clue. Secondly, getting laid off in the middle of a financial shitstorm is not a resume-buster, and requires approxiamtely 30 seconds to explain during an interview. I would urge you to quit playing the victim and find something to do until the storm passes. I am not old, comfortably entering middle age, which allows me to be endlessly entertained by know-it-all twentysomethings. Seems like one’s 40′s is a great decade of life so far….Keep on truckin’, you might make it that far, providing you completely change your attitude and world view. Hint: it does not revolve around you and your resume.
135
but its always about me
@128….the financial system doesn’t DESERVE to surivive? Where the fuck do punks like you come up with shitload? Ya know what, you don’t deserve to to be have any credit come 9am tomorrow morning.No ATM, no bank account, nadda, fuckwit.
128 doesn’t deserve to survive.
CNBC REPORTING DEAL DONE – MANAGEMENT TO BE FIRED.
BTDT, youre in your 40s? never woulda thought. you fit in so well with younger crowd here. thanks for all insight.
138
I HEARD THAT THEY FIRED HALF OF THE MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE CEO TOLD THEM TO WASH WITH PORE REFINER AT NIGHT, BUT THOSE FUCKS TRIED TO BE BRAVE AND USED THE RADIANCE EMULSION.
FUCKING IGNORANT SHITS
@133 – do the math man! 80% dilution is real…think about it, shareholders owned 100% of the company at $3.75 when the market closed, now they own 20%. not to mention, we still don’t know where the warrants are priced. take a cue from fannie and Freddie – both are trading south of $0.50 at the close. my guess is that aig will have a similar fate.
the deathwatch continues…the fed/treasury can’t save everyone (yes, they can continue to print money – but at what cost long term). don’t say you weren’t forewarned!
@137 sorry, but I do deserve my credit. I’m not overleveraged and I pay my bills on time. I also pay the consequences of any risk I undertake…try it sometime
@ 35, 38, 39, 45, 46 & 52
Sorry, a bit late to join so may have left later posts out, but to the above listed: I love you.
As for 27, 41 and 44: Fuck you.
@132
Your starting. Stop or someone will bring up the Masons, and we’ll have to start discussing all the imagery on the one doller billl.
poor hank, first he gets shafted by Shpitzer, now his AIG equity is worthless. never too late to start again i guess
138
I HEARD THAT THEY FIRED HALF OF THE MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE CEO TOLD THEM TO WASH WITH PORE REFINER AT NIGHT, BUT THOSE FUCKS TRIED TO BE BRAVE AND USED THE RADIANCE EMULSION.
FUCKING IGNORANT SHITS
The weekend at Bernanke’s continues…
Use clinique they have a great three step process and then if you need an intensive night cream use repairwear. They are allergy tested and everyone quietly uses their products and doesn’t share.
138
I HEARD THAT THEY FIRED HALF OF THE MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE CEO TOLD THEM TO WASH WITH PORE REFINER AT NIGHT, BUT THOSE FUCKS TRIED TO BE BRAVE AND USED THE RADIANCE EMULSION.
FUCKING IGNORANT SHITS
138
I HEARD THAT THEY FIRED HALF OF THE MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE CEO TOLD THEM TO WASH WITH PORE REFINER AT NIGHT, BUT THOSE FUCKS TRIED TO BE BRAVE AND USED THE RADIANCE EMULSION.
FUCKING IGNORANT SHITS
138
I HEARD THAT THEY FIRED HALF OF THE MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE CEO TOLD THEM TO WASH WITH PORE REFINER AT NIGHT, BUT THOSE FUCKS TRIED TO BE BRAVE AND USED THE RADIANCE EMULSION.
FUCKING IGNORANT SHITS
138
I HEARD THAT THEY FIRED HALF OF THE MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE CEO TOLD THEM TO WASH WITH PORE REFINER AT NIGHT, BUT THOSE FUCKS TRIED TO BE BRAVE AND USED THE RADIANCE EMULSION.
FUCKING IGNORANT SHITS
BTW anyone here monitoring the LIBOR?
On a related note anyone care loan me some greenbacks for a day or two at prime?
(any DB’ers seen the overnights and FOREX in general act like this before?)
-C
Do all AIG employees now get government benefits?
I hear that you can’t get fired from a gubment job.
@150 Higher LIBOR good for homeowners, right?
@145 yeah, a good lesson. note it. you’ll need it.
148 THANKS! Now that I have so much time I make sure to exfoliate my skin until it gets really chafed and then I follow w a hydrating moisturizer. Its the ultimate skincare routine
The Invisible hand has just ROOFED Oil $3.00 a barrel, for the US that means an additional cost of 65 million a day as one of the many consequences of this bail out. Dollar should puke to deflate our way out of this by making our debt cheaper. Pretty smart actually as the bagholders are our overseas creditors…
put some sham-wow on it.
HA! Libor plus 850!
The Federal Reserve just became Federal Pay-Day Loans
This is all about supply and demand.
These big companies demand a bailout and the fed supplies it.
Shrimp Brochettes
1 package of bacon
1 pound of jumbo shrimp
1 Can/bottle of pickled jalapeno slices.
OK, buy headless jumbo shrimp. Wash and peel them.
Then cut a strip of bacon into thirds. Get some toothpicks.
Take some pickled jalapeno peppers, and place them touching the shripmp. Wrap the 1/3 slice of bacon around the shrimp and the jalapeno. Use a toothpick to hold the bacon, shrimp and jalapeno together.
Throw them on a hot grill and cook until the bacon is done.
Or, dip into boiling cooking oil until done.
Or, broil in oven until shrimp or bacon is done.
Excellent with rice and a salad. You pick the wine. Cook it for your hottie who is or will be out of work soon.
Delicious!!
158
What can the Fed do for those suffering for dry, tired skin? I’ve tried everything but I just cant get that Dylan Mckay glow.
@155 huh?
Fucking ridiculous.
Bailout nation lives!!!
Complete nonsense, when since did redblooded American capiatalists become the wooses of Washington DC sugar daddies???
Fucking horrid!!
Grow a sack, mr market, the reason stocks go up is because they CAN go down.
For all you friggen excel monkeys out here, why don’t one of you work up a graph of the S&P index from the greenspan fed neg. real rates from 2002/3- present day. yo may be very surprised at what a “calamity/crisis/shitshow” we are have on our hands.
Pussies, one and all. little biaaatches who cry for their mommas every time the futures drop more than 30 friggen handles.
Oh yeah financial armageddon(sp? ligaf) was upon us eh??? fuck all- what’s next?? so is C too big, is WM too big, is GM, too big, is WB too big, how about my left nut. Pussy investors get pussy markets, exactly where we sit today.
deeznutz
My right nut is certainly too big.
162 has never traded real money.
162 – YOU BETTER FUCKING COOL IT OR I’LL OUT THE LANCOME LIFTING SERUM I AM PUTTING INTO EVERYONE’S ON THE BOARD SKIN CARE GOODY BAG.
BTW WHAT IS YOUR SKIN CARE REGIMEN?
@Bess
hahahha i laughed hard for each update, kudos
OK. Here is how it works.
1) all the smart people went to hedge funds, they are doing OK to up
2) all the average people went to ibanks, they are effed but getting bailed out
3) all the not so smart people went to work for the government, which now thinks it is a sophisticated hedge fund
The funny thing is…I bet that AIG investment makes them money, unlike the “investment” in BSC/JPM, because the MKT is now wrong.
#127
Whether AIG’s crisis is mostly a liquidity or a solvency event, it really doesn’t matter. If the toxic portfolio increases the risk of insolvency in the longer term, then you are most likely not going to get loans to save you from your shorter term liquidity problem. It seems to me that this just happened to AIG and I would see them as basically insolvent. Lipstick on this pig is not going to get it to look any prettier.
Impeachment: Yes any cabinet member can be impeached. I’m not sure if it’s ever happened. I also hear from questionable sources (Dealbreaker?) that Paulson has a one way ticket to Paraguay, just in case.
@167
I agree. I bet the government makes a ton on AIG. That’s why I’m not bitching. By the time this plays out, we see it as a deficit reduction move….Don’t forget, Paulson is not that far removed from being head of GS. He knows when to load the portfolio.
@167 somewhat tangentially but no less significantly:
hedge funds haven’t had to mark their CDS, have they? big sellers of protection? big short-short to hedge?
rhetorical questions, all.
Is DB accepting resumes? (Dealbreaker, not the germans)
-fucked
@152 Yeah give it a few more days at this level and the ARM’s are going to crush the (housing) market even worse=more defaults=less liquidty=higher Libor=you get the idea.
The way I see the Fed. and Treasury dont have much ammo when it comes to this (lowering interest rates could help a little or I guess we can threaten the BBA but they are a pretty conservative lot).
@157
Talk about juice.
-C
not my original idea, but this should probably cause credit spreads to tighten, thereby decreasing the losses on AIG’s portfolio, which the fed now owns?
Good to be the fed
hold the mayo please
this seems eerily similar to the bridges to nowhere often added to bills passed by congress. I hope the fed makes money on this one (and fan/fred). if they do – it will mean we survived the big one (only to repeat 5 – 10 years later)…
@172 – your analysis makes me want to update my “death watch” list…and add a few names.
@173
Yep, exactly. The Fed can stack the deck while they deleverage AIG….and bail when equilibrium returns at a fat fucking profit….
I was in the room for that discussion, and Bob referred to denying private equity as the “Fuld Doctrine”.
and no-buh-dee is going to bail out the hedges.
note that AIG’s problem child was the protection it sold.
~170
In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I’ll put on an ice pack while doing stomach crunches. I can do a thousand now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial mask which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion.
p.s. Update #3 made me orgasm. I’m yours forever, Bess.
are hedge funds subject to FASB rule 157?
@124
You’re wrong. Those Thrifts gave out loans without sufficient due diligence; people with unbelievable personal finances were granted mortgages, not to mention their houses are 50km from there workplaces and they likely drive financed vehicles that consume 15+L/100km. It isn’t a “good deal” on a loan when someone called “broker” neglects to probe deeply enough to see just how easy it is for their client to fail with a marginal increase in CPI. Besides, those mortgages are backed, it is the lender that was a jack-ass.
@ 180, hedge funds are subject to nothing.
except the law of bursting bubbles.
up to now, hedge funds were even sham-wow resistant!
@ 180, seriously, I doubt they are. They are completely private. To what regulatory body are they subject as regards their own finances?
im pooping in my pants now
#179 nice American Psycho reference!!
184
They are subject to the laws of moisturizing and hydrating.
You’ll never look like Luke Perry if you dont obey the rules
@184
CFTC (Commodity Futures Trading Commission) is the regulatory authority for most hedge funds. Not that they are on top of the job, mind you. Not anymore than the SEC has been, for sure.
188
YOURE FUCKING WRONG…IT’S the SLLC (Skin Like Luke Comission)
DONE DEAL – CNN.
In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial mask which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion.
All of this allows me to know the difference in the capital structure between senior debt and common equity. One has a much better chance of living than another.
In the interest of promoting good info, Grant Thornton has a 4 pager on this FASB 157 and Hedgies here: http://www.grantthornton.com/staticfiles/GTCom/files/Industries/FSandFI/Grant_Thonrton_Hedge_FundAdviser_Issue_2.pdf
It looks like they are or *will be* this year.
However, their capital requirements are negotiated, unlike banks.
190 fuck off youre interupting our discussion about the important things in life – babys ass smooth skin
RON PAUL would not have let this happen
181, you’re the jackass for using the metric system.
191 is the herb mint mask from Clarins?
195 you’re a jackass for using Oil of Olay. it’s fucking cheap
@ 188 only if they trade in futures correct? CFTC sets margin requirements but does it specify capital disclosure between a customer and it’s clearing agent? Don’t think so, but could be wrong.
CDS aren’t listed on any commodities exchange (yet). Hard to see CFTC having much to say about them.
disorderly failure rules!
if it’s not sham-wow, it’s not baby-ass smooth.
The truth about Hank.
A guy that leaves with CV Starr and all those shares of AIG, shares that AIG can’t get back and Hank is using to do as he wishes. He got bitten by the private equity bug and if you look at what they’ve done in the past few years it’s a joke. Overpriced club deals because they don’t have the talent to do much more than that.
And now he wants to rescue AIG. How Hank? How? Will you provide 80BN in capital to AIG? How about you just return those shares you stole? Because that really is the issue. And will you keep pretending you had nothing to do with what led to the downfall?
What a joke.
Hi everybody! Just got in here from AOL’s “Over 30″ chat room.
What’s the topic???
Why the fuck is Sephora not doing anything about the situation w AIG? They have more lotions, serums, and masks than the lame Fed.
THAT IS A JOKE, 201
If JC Flowers gives $20B in cash for control of the company on Sunday, JC Flowers is looking for a $65B bridge loan on Wednesday. No point.
The topic 202 is SKINCARE…and that youre old
fuck you 1-201. you gave me a mortgage i couldn’t afford. now im leaving my house and moving in with my parents. you hedge funders lied to me and now my interest is too high AND i have to start paying principal. i thought my house was going up in value – houses ALWAYS go up, never down, according to you private equityers. fuck you. now i have to move back to my old bedroom from childness.
Hydrating is today’s topic.Tomorrow night, we discuss chemical peels.
you know, the AIG building would make kick-ass condos.
Come on, seriously guys. These are really scary times and it would be very helpful if anyone could help provide the Kiehls associate numbers?
206 I AGREE. FUCK YOU ALL I GOT LAID OFF AND CANNOT AFFORD CREME DE LA MER ANYMORE. WHEN MY COMPLEXION IS DULL I WILL BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOU.
@201
“The AIG facility has a 24-month term. Interest will accrue on the outstanding balance at a rate of three-month Libor plus 850 basis points. AIG will be permitted to draw up to $85 billion under the facility…[t]he loan is collateralized by all the assets of AIG, and of its primary non-regulated subsidiaries. These assets include the stock of substantially all of the regulated subsidiaries. The loan is expected to be repaid from the proceeds of the sale of the firm’s assets. The U.S. government will receive a 79.9 percent equity interest in AIG and has the right to veto the payment of dividends to common and preferred shareholders.”
wow it’s getting weird.
I am SO out of here.
Of course all of the AIG bagholders think this is a great idea. They mispriced counterparty risk and want someone else to pay for the mistake. All this “too big to fail” noise is code for “I’m an AIG counterparty”.
The fed should Have let AIG go Chapter 11. People should pay for making stupid loans to Wall Street and Wall Street should pay for making stupid loans to home owners.
Lehman Credit Default Swap counterparties are probably going to be bailed out big time (GS, MS, ect..). People who don’t deserve to be bailed out. If GS and MS went BK tommorow I could still buy food and have running water. Eventually, the financial system would regenerate to have less counterpary risk and be more transparent in the future.
The way things are going now we are just going to have another crisis 8-10 years from now, because stupid loans, stupid counterpary risk, and ridiculous and at the time very profitable gaming of the system by IBs, banks, rating agencies, many home buyers/speculators, hedge funds…a lot of parties is not punished with the financial losses it should be because AIG’s CDS counterparties and debt holders are being bailed out by the U.S. government.
@141 These are $0.00001 warrants.
Yes sir, my friend, these are not stock options granted to (former) employees.
@208 yea, if there is anyone left around after the “dust settles”
…and i’m not talking about those oil drilling motha fuckas…ucking with my ishhh
wall streeters should not be bailed out because i have a good job working for the town and i have a buetifull family and wife. my wife is also my cuzin so we know all the others familys good. my kids are going to graduate from high school and be wall streeters when everyone else is layed off.
i am voting for ron paul because obama=osama.
Would it be possible to shut the fuck up with the skincare tips? This is the only brand you should be using: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1381407.html
@ 213. Are you sure it was “counterparty risk?” If I sell you protection on GM, and you default, woe is me. But if GM defaults, I’m screwed.
and the big protection sellers are the ones that are dropping like flies or scrambling for cap or both. It looked like easy money for a bunch of overpaid overconfident IB guys — you know, your typical DB reader.
It wasn’t just AIG, Dobbs.
212 It all started with 179, which is a reference to American Psycho. Once you understand that it doesn’t seem weird and you feel better in general about the world.
@210 holy shit i am dying! why the fuck do you know what “creme de la mer” is unless you’re a chick, and if so then your potty mouth is a huge turn-on!
bess: this is one of those times that you scare me.
and furthermore, AIG is in the INSURANCE business, fortheluvofgawd. Why SHOULDN’T they be protection sellers?
~219
@ 222 It makes sense now. It IS bess, isn’t it.
eek.
imoudaheaaaaaar.
@222– why is that?
WM being bought by JPM?
The people who bought protection from AIG, at prices that were in retrospect way too low, mispriced counterpary risk. That is until the U.S. government bailed them out…
my name is tim and i want to tell you wall streeters that in the bible it tells to not bee too greedy. also new york is full of sodomites and will be flooded when global warming cums. move to salt lake city utah where the rest of us mormons live and repent for your sins.
we have an insurance contract with AIG for the Great Flood so all of your condos will be safe but only if you convert and repent.
WRONG. IF MY NAME WAS BESS I WOULD SHOOT MYSELF…WHAT A HICK NAME
Thanks Bess.
@230– actually it’s a jew, not hick name, dumbass. you can leave now.
counterparty risk? do you know what a counterparty is? you think it’s some bar game you play after work?
oy.
imagine implying Bess is a hick.
even if every hick owns a cow or a pig named “Bess” or “Bessie” at some point in his life.
@169
A good friend told me that GS convinced P that this had to happen.
I bet they were overweight AIG CDS/exposure and lied on CC today. I hope they go to jail.
MS lied today too.
I hope the accountants get good bonuses because they sold their integrity.
@234 BG (since we’re all using initials now) over at PIMCO was fat the AIG CDS.
and that’s all that matters.
Why is splooge cream being outsourced to Mexicans? Is this a job that no American will take?
@170
Their PBs force them to mark.
I’ve destroyed trillons of dollars in shareholder wealth and put taxpayers on the hook and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.
The trolls on fuckedcompany.com were much more entertaining than the DB trolls. Carney, ring up Pud and ask him to redirect FC to DB.
“Interest will accrue on the outstanding balance at a rate of three-month Libor plus 850 basis points”
Nice, given whats going on with the Libor this sounds like a stop-gap measure that’s sure to work (at punting this till after the elections).
Loonies sure are looking good again [my retirement plans re: an opium den in SE Asia need some financing afterall]
The horror, the horror…
-C
As for hedge fund regulations Sections 3(c)1 and 3(c)7 allow all the exemptions required and the Goldstein case killed off the latest efforts though some opted for voluntarily meeting the guidelines.
GO BACK TO YOUR FARM BESS
IM GOING TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF DICK FULD. I BETTER GET A SEVERANCE OR 2 YRS WORTH OF CREME DE LA MER OTHERWISE EXPECT SOME APE SHIT BEHAVIOR ON 7TH AVE
@229– you’re a douchebag.
@237 well, yes, and if they say to their PB’s, “yo, you know we aint gonna fuckin mark, cause if we do, we go down and leave you holdin da bag and losin all that muthahfuckin commission biz, YO!” then the PB says, “just keep payin the interest then, sir. I need your business to buy my McMansion, Ferrari, and the 50$ drinks for the babes.”
Only sissies want AIG bailed out.
242 I BET YOUR SKIN LOOKS HAGGARD
242 I BET YOUR SKIN LOOKS HAGGARD
242 I BET YOUR SKIN LOOKS HAGGARD
What are they trying to skirt by obviously owning less than 80%?
Thank you “Tim the Double Posting Mormon” for your suggestions.
Stop being such a jerk! There are more pressing problems than the melting of the polar ice caps.
I’d love to see how the Treasury manages AIG’s books. The Treasury should come clean about the quality of the securities.
Tim the Mormon, I still hold some Merrill convertible bonds. Do you think these will convert if I repent?
If the end of the world does cometh, I’ll come looking for you in Utah. I’ll be the one with a bag of brown rice on my shoulders and wearing a pair of Converse superstars.
242 I BET YOUR SKIN LOOKS HAGGARD
Bess is right fuck off with the skin care. She waits 230 so comments to stomp on it…Bess nice way to step in like a one Marlo Stanfield.
Ok, anyone here an expert on this bullshit with FAS140? Its a bit beyond my level of expertise but – and please correct me if I’m wayy off – seems like FASB was trying to force the banks to consolidate all of their QSPE’s onto their balance sheets, which would have not exactly gone over very well.
Anywhere close?
WHY? WHY CANT’T I TALK ABOUT IT? LUMINOUS SKIN IS THE CRUX OF EVERYTHING
Bess is a hottie.
let’s go upstairs soon so we can do crazy shit and forget about this bullshit!!!!
let’s go upstairs soon so we can do crazy shit and forget about this bullshit!!!!
let’s go upstairs soon so we can do crazy shit and forget about this bullshit!!!!
@214….
Oh, you left out a bunch of stuff.
First of all you’re going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there’s the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I’m sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that’ll cost ya. Oh and don’t forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there’s long term costs such as waste disposal. I don’t know if you’re familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it’s not the boyscouts.
Goodnight all, I really have to go return some video tapes.
sham-wows to all.
259
GREASE…YOU SHOULD NOT DO…ALL YOU WILL ACHIEVE BY THAT IS GIVING THOSE UGLY SHITS OIL T ZONES
@254…if you have luminous skin it means you were in the middle of a bukake circle. Loser.
Mrs. Truman was Jewish? Who knew?
@262…
You don’t know dick.
That will be quite enough, Mr. Melon! Maybe bribes, kickbacks and Mafia payoffs are how YOU do business! But they are NOT part of the legitimate business world! And they are certainly not part of anything I am doing in this class. Do I make myself clear, Mr. Melon!
No one is raining down on Martin “Fat Fuck” Sullivan. English dickhead. How do you fuck up an insurance fucking company. Gombeen man
Mrs. Truman was Jewish? Who knew?
Here we fucking go:
“The U.S. auto industry needs $50 billion in low-interest, government-guaranteed loans and could return to the U.S. Congress for a second round of $25 billion after approval of the first $25 billion, the head of the United Auto Workers union said on Tuesday.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN1637291820080917
Did you see this?! Barclays buying LEH’s NA IB for 1.75 bil all in?
1.5 bil for the headquarters?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLsMT_psdKqk&refer=home
Hank Greenburg 08?
WRONG. IT MEANS YOU ARE RADIANT AND BEAUTIFUL
Fucking A! This country is going to shit. I should move to Hong Kong…lots of asian p*ssy and finance jobs. What a shitshow.
@269 kick the tires and light the fires. Barclays is not cocked locked and ready to rock!
TGFD rocking out with his cock out.
LATER BITCHES IHAVE TO HYDRATE, MOISTURIZE, AND EMULSIFY MY SKIN. AND IM DEFINITELY NO SACRIFICING LUMINOSITY FOR YOU DRIED UP HAGS. NOT CHANCE SO DONT EVEN TRY TO CONVINCE ME TO STAY.
REMEMBER THE REGIMEN ASS WIPES.
THE CONVO WILL CONTINUE TOMORROW…
Karl Marx was right. Capitalism has reached its final stage and we are now ready for the road to communism through the socialist transition.
@86 – “Palin is a total empty headed looser.”
Such irony, loser.
nite bessie.
Night everyone.
can anyone pls tell me why AIG agreed to collateral posting requirements in all their structured finance CDS contracts upon downgrade? the monolines never have to post collateral (NEVER!) regardless of how badly they get cow poked by the rating agencies… Discuss.
275 276 so long dipshit.
@159 They were very tasty. Thanks for the post; please continue.
Best Regards,
Calgreedy
because they aren’t a monoline.
meaning, they have other obligations — regulated obligations.
think caps on, children.
#272
Sorry to break the bad news to you. Finance jobs in Hong Kong are in short supplies these days.
But please do visit and get some pxssies while you’re here.
@282 how are monoline obligations not “regulated”? MBI – NY ins regulator, ABK – WI ins regulator. they also sell GICs, just like AIG, which are also completely underfunded.
obviously they don’t have subs that sell life ins, etc, but their derivative subs look exactly like AIGs, other than the collateral requirements in contract language.
whoever shorted our financials into the ground has turned their sites upon the aussies.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a8WrUD5bnpgI&refer=home
you know how i know you’re gay? you like the song from the new iPod commercial.
boom!
@ 282 I didn’t say monolines weren’t “regulated.” I don’t a thing about monolines. But I know that AIG ain’t one.
And neither is Mutual of Omaha. And if they had exposure to CDS, they’d have to put up collateral, too.
How come every time GS has a significant exposure, there’s a bailout?
here;s the deal..shares closed around $4..there was 2.69 billion shares outstanding..there are now 2.69 + 10.74 billion = 13.43 billion shares. the 10.74 billion government shares were bought for 85 billion which means the government paid 7.91 per share and shareholders are worth double the closing price. Ok thats roughly double the”its wrong, its wrong” closing share price..part 1. part deux (or pas de deux) in exchange for 80%, the government will extend a bridging loan at LIBOR +8.5% for two years. LIBOR +8.5% is not the borrowing rate for a creditworthy say single A credit rated company, which is what S&P or Moody’s downgraded it too. Nor is it a rate at which a company with AIG’s business model could survive at. Remember this is a company that lends to people at around LIBOR +4% tops for mortgages or LIBOR + a lower number to insure BBB to AA rated borrowers. In any event, 80% for a two year bridging loan that will cause the company to go bankrupt. Where is AIG trading at now? Come on you muppets..oops…bulls…oops tax payers! BUY BUY BUY…bet you didnt vote for investment managers to run the economy..oh wait..no-one who was elected was given a say! democapunism!
THe idea is that when the market stabilizes and marks are closer to reality they’ll PAY THE LOAN OFF TO AVOID THE PENALTY INTEREST, EINSTEIN.
#282, 284
Let’s have some decorum please.
The whole fucking banking and finance industry is underfunded! Kapiche??
Next up all the regional banks with their shitty balance sheets and no access to new long term funding. It will be death by a thousand paper cuts when they go.
GM, Ford, Chrysler (sorry Mr Feinberg) are all gonna go belly up. I don’t care if they release a nuclear fission car that runs of water tomorrow. They’re all fucked.
Autoloans, personal loans, credit card loans, they’re are fucked too.
Accept it and exhale.
too long didn’t read
going to bed
goodnight hoppers!
@287 – i hear you on AIG aint no monoline, but the deriv sub exists off a regulated insurance hold co solely to sell protection through CDS. i know there has to be some reason they agreed to collateral posting when the monolines were competing in the exact same market from a seemingly advantaged position. just trying to figure it out. asked sell side life analyst today, he mumbled, bumbled, sounded like he was beginning to choke on his own tounge then hung up. and that gets you a top 3 II ranking???
first time i’ve had intelligent response on DB to a real question, much appreciated.
Barclays paying 250m for the IB.
guess thats better than selling barings for 1 pound
#288 – Good observation. Maybe it is because a certain Mr Henry Paulson at the Treasury looking after their interests.
how is the govt getting 80% of the equity without a shareholder vote?
#291, nice post. Down the rabbit hole we go.
Bess, please have some good shit loaded in the chamber and ready to fire off tomorrow. Thanks!
-The Management
#296 look at the Frannie case study, digest, then poop
@296 of course there’e a vote. Paulson, Benjy, did i miss someone?
300!
Bess, please send box of baby wipes to my office immediately. I appear to have soiled myself whilst reading update III.
my bad..i read that as the loan starts now @libor +8.5% for two years..(bridging loan rate) and the govt gets 80%, hence nothing to do with avoiding penalties
Some global perspective on this crisis will be timely I think.
How about Macquarie Bank in Australia. Are they stuffed? Their subsidiary and satellite funds are very highly levered.
What about the $300billion of LBO bridge loans coming due in 2009? Any thoughts?
@301…get in line.
#303…go watch porn and give your Bberg monitor a rest.
Consumer ABS is going to be fucked by q2 ’09, q3 latest, this is what happens when you play fast & loose for a decade, whoops
hey anal_yst, arent you supposed to be on vacation? this is work
libor+850 is downright punitive. It gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. Good luck selling off those assets at anything near fair value.
fair value, more like fairy tale.
BOROPHYLL!
Get this to 400 comments before morning. Night cock knockers!
RE: Letter in Bess’ Update III
“September 16, 2008
Since you became chairman of AIG, you and the board have presided over the virtual [sic] destruction of shareholder value built up over 35 years. It is not my intention to point fingers or be critical…
Sincerely,
Hank
CC: AIG Board of Directors”
http://dealbreaker.com/images/thumbs/AIG09162008.pdf
There once was a bank named Lehman,
that was wrestling with the capital demon
Hank said “There, there,
I can’t help like Bear,
but I can inject you with some Capitol semen!
There once was a bank named Lehman,
that was wrestling with the capital demon
Hank said “There, there,
I can’t help you like Bear,
but I can inject you with some Capitol semen!
that was beautiful 311
#311…wow DB has hit a new….HIGH!
JPM buys WM before Halloween. Trick or Treat says Jamie…or he’ll wait until WM gets shut and let the FDIC sell him the good meat in a fire sale.
What is Hank worth?
-Was $3 billion in 2006
-Down 90%
-Diluted another 80%
Someone do the math
Forgive me if I missed this up the thread, but where is this loan going to be in the AIG capital structure? Is it senior to the other debt at the holdco level? Because if all the counter parties are made whole, and some of the dodgy investments on AIG books get marked to a truer fair value, doesn’t the govt risk not getting paid back in whole? Tangible equity with which to absorb losses is only like $70 billion. It wouldn’t surprise me if this loan was upsized at some point in the future.
#308
Yes, I agree that LIBOR+850bps is draconian. But Paulson had to send out the signal that Government bail-out fundings don’t come cheap and are only last resorts.
I wonder what would AIG’s exposure to Hurricane Ike and Hanna…………
http://www.retheauditors.com/2008/09/how-might-have-fallen-update-on-who.html
I am a 22-year old grad who just got laid off. Fuck finding a job, Obama is going to be Prez. Send dat government cheese my way, baby! No sense getting out of bed to donate 50%.
Worth is close to zip. too late for the math. too bad the AIG security guards did not let him back to “retrieve his underwear, letters from his mother and other personal items” he’ll need that underwear now
Lot of pussy baning talk in this 320+ posts
Dang i hit a nerve back there with “one in the pink, and two in the stink”
AIG Will Be Headed by Ex-Allstate CEO Edward Liddy, Person Says
———
Hes not bad; they can push him arround
They need a leader like O’Hara or Lewis; but them is $$$$$$$$$$$$
Has anyone else noticed the youporn servers are abnormally slow?
@319
You must be a woman.
I paid close to that this year and will next year…but you’ll never know that feeling.
@323 I’ll be done in a minute.
SPODE
You Porn?
Porn Hub, Red Tube & Brazzers rule
@324 – That comment was meant in jest. I am still gainfully employed. I was just trying to impersonate the types of underachieving fucks who are supporting that directionless upright ape. I bet atleast some of this market trouble can be blamed on the liklihood of an Obama presidency, and increased tax rates and decreased desire to invest in the US.
@289
You are an idiot, the debt is senior. Can’t value like that.
Woo Hoo! We’re gubment employees now! That means we can’t get fired!
Huge get together at the Ketch tomorrow after work – corporate card is buying!
i heard hank greenberg was trying to ride the bangbus but hankimbo slice paulson ran a heinous cockblock and left greenberg standing there trying to remove the batwing.
Hank Letter; dissed bt FIG banker
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/AIG09162008.pdf
@289 Feds did not pay anything for equity – they loaned $80 billion at usurious rates and shut down any and all div payments to com and pref. They paid 0 for 80% of the stock. Appearantly AIG in fact is bankrupt when marks are taken. Like Lehman, they appearntly lied about thier asset value.
So, feds own likley 80% of nothing and common own 20% of the same. If the board didn’t think it was worthless, why do the deal? But, I predict will close @ $2-3 tomorrow.
If Quentin Tarantino ever consider doing a sequel to his 90′s Cult Classic “Pulp Fiction”.
He should call it “Mark to Market”
Close at $1 or less, just like fre/fnm
Dipshits wrote cheap CDS and only reason they didn’t file is bcs GS is big CP and HP still has big stake.
WB is laughing his ass off in Omaha as NY becomes the next Wyoming (but without oil).
I’d suggest that everyone enroll in an engineering or science program because the only way we find our way out of this mess is with a cure for both cancer and old age. The latter (or ladder on this board) has been searched for years with no luck, but hopefully we can import some minds to solve problem.
This was manufactured. With his lawsuits being settled and dropped, how else could they hurt Hank, who ran off with CV Starr and billions of dollars worth of shares but to make them worthless?
Hank had just settled his 2002 lawsuit with the company for only $115 million just 4 days ago. He though he got off easy.
He and his company’s holdings at the beginning of the year were worth about $16 billion and as of Monday, were worth $1 billion. Now that the government has stepped in, the shares are probably worthless.
As of recently, he had been requesting that the fed offer a bridge loan, but he had also wanted to be apart of the turnaround/divesture team and work with Willumstad. I’m pretty sure that he won’t have this opportunity.
I wonder why nobody has stormed Washington because GS does not deserve these special treatments. If their CP risks with AIG bring them down then so be it.
Paulson should be indicted over this shit.
You live by the dollar, you die by the dollar.
Bess, if I spend the next three decades of my life building an industry-leading business, get sacked due to massive fraud, watch that company edge to the brink of destruction and send a heartfelt letter to current management, can I have a hug as well?
@335 Idiot
Some super conspiracy theory to get even w/ 10% shareholder at the expense of virtually every retirement fund in country (not to mention countless annuity and life insurance policies).
Post after thought please.
“Bess, if I spend the next three decades of my life building an industry-leading business, get sacked due to massive fraud, watch that company edge to the brink of destruction and send a heartfelt letter to current management, can I have a hug as well?”
hold out for the blow job
#335 & 338
There is definitely still hostility towards Hank Greenburg in NY and Washington.
It is unfathomable for such conspiracy to be contemplated given the catastrophic effects to the American society at large. Even if AIG is saved and restored to its former glory, all Americans will have to pay more for their insurance policies.
will the chinese and japanese bailout our fed in the end
“hold out for the blow job”
Wait, I thought “hug” was a euphemism for anal, raw dog.
@340 outright conspiracy, no. underlying emotion guiding your rationale in times of tough and non-clearcut decision-making, yes.
So top management is being replaced. How far down does this go? All they mention is Willumstad is being replaced by the former CEO of Allstate, Ed Liddy.
Also, Mr. Willumstad could be receiving an $8.7 million package for his 3 months of dragging his feet if his removal is deemed, without cause.
Buffett wins again. Looked this weekend and said “fuck this shit, I am going to get a burger.” Will buy chunks from the govt.
Face the facts.
Select MM fund cut 3% off face value of holdings. That is $1 now equals $0.97 cents. You lost 3% in an asset that returns just above inflation normally.
For every 401(k) holder that was smart/lucky enough to move money, this is big, Big, BIG news. No one is safe. The impact is 30% felt and still coming strong. GS (and I love those guys) may well fail before the end of this.
The only way to hedge is to have a basket of currencies representative of world GDP. Everything else fails.
too many comments; didn’t read.
#343
Agree. The scary thing will be the price which all Americans will have to pay in the future years.
I feel sorry for those who are near or at retirement age seeing their 401K shrink before their eyes. I can only imagine how they feel about not being able to retire and at the same time staring at the very real prospect of getting fired soon.
If the Dow does go to 5,000 as Bill Gross predicted. This will become America’s “Lost Generation”. Other countries will suffer tremendously also. America will no longer relied on as the largest export market and the global economy will go into recession. I already hear Asian exporters to the US suffering because they are not getting paid for goods shipped because the US companies they deal with have gonna bankrupt. If anything, 2009 will probably be worse as we all go into recession mode and tighten our belts.
Dear Fed and Treasury,
Please stop fucking my generation in the ass by encouraging risky conduct that then bailing out those who get burnt by such conduct. My generation is already saddled with enough debt your generation has incurred on us.
Thank You.
Sincerely,
People born in the 1980s onward.
too short – no comment
fed up – no comment
fed up – no comment
Hank’s Caribbean Pirate Ship is sunk. Worthless, them AIG shares. Bet this isn’t what you were asking for with that bridge loan, eh Hank Blackbeard?
-
C’mon, I want to see guys with real stones.
Who here can make bank with Libor + 850 money? You can traffic in anything except drugs or vodka marked and exported as industrial chemicals.
349, back up 11 years and add us to the mix.
Too bad there will be no cash no McCain or Osama to enact any change other than “Quit giving away all of the cash.”
335 – I hear your friends at the Yahoo forums calling for you…
Seriously, besides Spitzer, there were a number of people who had beefs with Mr. Greenberg and would relish seeing him squirm.
While you cooked up an interesting conspiracy theory, the underlying issues that led up to today were not concocted to take down Hank Greenberg. It just worked out that way.
Nice try.
fed up; fucked up ; short up;
suck it.
For leh in london – putting up a new hedge fund – ur unemployment check, automatic post – 100 % no risk strategy – short the shit out of GS & C
thx and see ya
In case you guys haven’t figured this out, the government figured out a way to put AIG in conservatorship after all. They just called it a “loan.”
Stock destroyed, preferred dividend eliminated to preserve capital, interest rate on loan that is going to force prompt liquidation of a huge chunk of AIG’s assets, thereby leaving AIG much smaller after they repay the loan.
What exactly does this sound like?
I admire the D.C. suits. Fucking brilliant. Also admire Barclays for buying an Ibank for $250 million.
355, 353 here.
Where did I say this was cooked up to get Greenberg? Something needed to be done to keep AIG working (not saying save, since these terms are basically gunpoint liquidation), and Hank was calling for something to be done, a loan of some sort.
His pirate ship getting sunk is just collateral damage. Be careful what you ask for…
in case you guys were interested, i just CLEANSED, TONED, SERUMED, MOISTURIZED, APPLIED EYE CREAM, AND LIP HYDRATION.
you should all be so lucky that you have my beauty tips in ugly times.
IM BACK BITCHES
@353 Well I can think of one way to turn a profit on Libor + 850 money — short AIG
GOD YOU SIMPLETONS…JUST LISTEN. FUCK AIG, LEHMAN, PAULSON, THE HICKS AT WACHOVIA, JOHN THAIN, DICK FULD (EVEN THO HE OWES ME CREME DE LA MER + PRADA BRIGHTENING CREME FOR 2 YRS OR ILL BEAT HIM TO A BLOODY PULp). just forget about them ok?
its not about numbers and finance, shorts and puts, and mergers and bailouts.
its not even about the 24 k gold facials you can now get at the tribeca spa….
its about your own skin care regimen….each night…performed by you in front of the mirror….ok?
359: thanks for the beauty tips in ugly times, however, I don’t need them real time.
357 is on the money. Seizing AIG would have been illegal, so they just gave them a killer loan backed by 80% of the company. The American economy is now one step closer to nationalization.
shutup 363…..357 is not on the money. 363 uses cheap products that cause breakouts and dry the skin out.
361 is the ruler of dealbreaker. get it straight or ill lynch you with a gel mask.
btw 362: you’re completely ungrateful. I’m trying to help you as well as help the American economy beautify itself and get rid of crustiness.
Fucking unappreciative…it’s ridiculous.
What kind of tax receipts will the government require to fund AIG and Fannie and Freddie and Bear and Lehman? Are they going to break down my door and take 3 plump pullets from my chicken coop to pay for all of this? Or will they print “new dollars” each of which is worth 10,000 “old dollars”? We set up a free market capitalist system so somebody wins and somebody loses. If the market “wins” who “loses”?
366 – revert back to the topic of SKINCARE or ill sandpaper your face so bad that the strongest chemical peel will not be able to restore your skin to its natural – but horrifingly dull and lifeless – state
what does everybody think about Clarins products?
#367
Clarins? Not as good as Mayo.
A black car and 368 comments later, all I can digest is Irish Spring soap on the face. 30/1 is being tattooed on my thigh for evidence of how 2 years felt, and how severance was sold. The only thing I have to thank is my pessimism towards real estate. NYC will carry the air of the early-Detroit demise in 2 years. Hopefully European tourists won’t become disinterested in the coming months…
Clarins the shit fool. Straight out of Compton with my 9 and $43 an ounce Beauty Flash Balm. So give it up smooth ain’t no tell in when I’m down for a thirst quenching hydra-care mask.
Yo Ren tell em where your from!
SPODE
368. I was under the impression that my skins tips are being absorbed by the average crusty, flaky, abrasive looking banker. Not neanderthals (except 366 given his constant diversion and opposition to the important discussion).
With that said, MAYO should absolutely not be used on the skin. If you want to look like you dipped your face in crisco, be my guest. Stick to the luxury lines…
#365 et al – You can only put so much lipstick onto a pig.
This could actually be a great deal for taxpayers. L+850 is a pretty nice spread when your cost of capital is 2%, and there’s no reason not to believe, assuming it now has ample liquidity and ratings recover, that AIG won’t be a $100bn company again in two years. Fed exercises warrants, does a secondary offering… pretty nice returns.
Is this a trial run for social security? Or with all this talk of hedge fund regulation did they just decide that if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.
Bernanke: “Fuck it, let’s just start a prop desk”.
Paulson: “Fine but I’m changing my title to CIO”.
373
You mean those two deadbeats will finally come to their senses:
Bernanke: “Fuck it, I knew I wasn’t exfoliating properly. I am going to the Red Door Salon.”
Paulson: “I’m coming with you. I’ve been told I look like an ashy corpse when I’m on TV. Plus I was reading dealbreaker and word on the street is that not enough people have the Dylan McKay luminosity.”
DID YOU HEAR HIM YOU FREAKING SLOBS? not enough people have the Dylan McKay luminosity
372 you would be very surprised if you ever found out who the DB skin guru is.
The plan is good and person is beautiful. HA BITCHES
The interest rate (LIBOR+850bps) imposed by Paulson is a signal to the market as well as to ensure AIG gets on with the asset disposal as quickly as possible so they can repay the Treasury and not have to keep paying the usurious interest rate.
But I wonder if the asset disposals are really going to be that easy when there is only one unlevered buyer in the Market – The US Treasury.
Opportunistic hedge funds, P/E funds, and foreigners like Allianz might take bits and pieces. But I don’t see massive sales as liquidity is still…………unavailable.
Let’s see how this plays out. I still think the regional banks are next and then maybe one of the last remaining pure play i-banks like GS or MS.
This crisis will become an international crisis very soon. Mark my word!
This facial skin crisis will become a whole body crisis very soon. Mark MY word!
LATER BUTTFUCKS, I gotta go to bed. Way past my beauty rest time. Plus, I need to get up early and raid the Z Bigatti counter at Saks. I heard theyre giving out free sample of skin milk. Samples..look what I’m fuckin reduced to! You’re going down DICK FULD. You and that nasty ass dehyrated leather covering that you claim is your dermis
Bess -
Dan Daoust was an NHL player back in the 80′s. He scored 87 goals for the Toronto Make-me Laffs. Apparently, he took one too many pucks to the head.
And I agree with whoever wrote “Libor+850 hahaha” – I cracked up when I read that too.
So I had thought (as most others on this blog did) that AIG commons are done. However, the stock is trading at 3 euros ( 4.26 USD) in Frankfert with 700K+ shares traded.
http://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/EN/index.aspx?pageID=35&ISIN=US0268741073
Does this mean that there is a chance AIG would renegotiate a better agreement later? Or is this just some optimistic traders and this will settle to
#380, I meant US level II.
HBOS in the UK dropped 45% in the morning session………………
The crisis just acquired an international dimension. There is no reason why the UK shouldn’t get done also given their economy’s reliance on property and finance for the last few years.
Where’s Tim the Mormon from Utah? I’m ready to repent. Please convert all my Merrill convertibles bonds to BofA shares.
How does one trade in US markets during these hours? 130K AIG shares now traded wtih Bid-Ask at 3.93-3.99
We wrote in comments here on DB last night that we planned to buy AIG when it was in area of $1.50, and a few people said we were a bunch of idiots. They stated something similar when we said we were buying LEH in area of $0.17.
Below is principle 1 in a series of principles behind buying penny stocks of companies as large as AIG and LEH (with options chains attached to them). This is important as options help calculate the probs via implied volatilities.
lessons from AIG Insolvency , LEH Bankruptcy Crisis: Timing of Purchases of Penny Stocks of Major Companies
Principle 1:
” Never buy the stock before the bankruptcy news is out. You do this because you want the component in the stock price that relates to the probability of no bankruptcy to be filtered out of the stock.
Therefore you buy the stock only towards the end of the day after the bankruptcy has been announced.
In the case of LEH, you buy towards the end of Monday. Price was around $0.16″
The rest of the principles are at the site:
http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/09/lessons-from-aig-insolvency-leh.html
#380, your question and its answer is at the link below. The answer explains exactly the why behind the 3.75 price level. The reason is technical, and expert traders know why. I think you should understand this, and the article was written 12 hours before your question and the price you are observing which makes the answer in the site below sound.
http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/09/aig-solvency-crisis-solvent-or.html
#385 is tim sykes’ long lost brother
I’m gonna make it rain.
@279, 284 etc. I believe the monolines don’t (didn’t) post collateral because they had the power to tell ISDA to f off when they got in the CDS business. Their position was that their financial guaranty insurance contracts on muni bonds didn’t require them to post collateral, and in substance their CDS insurance of ABS, CDOs, etc was the same. And plus, they were ‘AAA’ rated, so what’s the worry! AIG and everyone else had to play by ISDA rules.
384/385 got his tips from TIMAlerts!
Soon this posts will have as many comments as points in the Dow…
DUAN.
Piss on Greenberg. If he’s so smart and would have done things so much differently, then he could have sold his shares or been railing publicly against their strategies, rather than just because he got kicked out.
Hey, didn’t Japan spend the 80s-90s propping up “zombie” banks and corporations? We saw how well that turned out.
Isn’t Bush supposed to be pro Free Market?
Can we please get back to ridiculing Sarah Palin? This shit is too depressing.
@ Bess
By offering to rain down “righteous indignation” for free, you seem to be implying that you also do it for a fee. Do you have a rate card? Is there a bulk discount?
Hey, I am just commenting to set a new record in the number of comments.
Bess, John, congrats: you’ve done a fantastic job through this crisis.
The number of comments certainly shows that you are fully legit.
Have you seen that the US Embassy in Yemen has blown up?
What do you think are the ramifications of that for the US politics?
I can understand why we need to bail them out, but I think as ridiculous as Bakan’s book “The Corporation” is, he got one thing right: a corporation is not a person. There is far too little accountability. When corps go under, or break the law, we punish the owners, when we should be punishing the managers who make the decisions.
The Board is supposed to be independent and stand for the shareholders, but I think that model has proved it’s ineffectiveness. No board can possibly police management nor would we want them to.
I think, we really need to go after management more. Throw them in jail more often, fine management, not fine the company. etc. I know the last decade we have been but there needs to be more accountability. Not more regulation, just hold people accountable for their actions, not hold a faceless company and its owners accountable for the actions of managers.
398 posts. Boy I guess no one has much to do. Also only a few mayo and shamwow posts, too bad!
Last!
Dead last
Even more last (with extra mayo)
“What’s next? Bailing out GM? Citigroup?”
Yes, unfortunately.
And it’s hard to believe anyone would cite ‘Sideshow Jim’ Cramer as a source of financial advice (I’m looking at YOU, Number 4). Just by invoking his name, you get an Epic Fail.
First AIG, then WAMU with a majority federal stake. Obvious negligent management and unlimited taxpayer deep pockets. Who’d have thought Bush would give such a boon to trial lawyers. Shareholder derivative suit anyone?
“Please stop fucking my generation . . . my generation is already saddled with enough debt your generation has incurred on us.”
- – - -
Sorry, son, but the intercourse will be continuing. You always claim you want us to include you in more of our activities, and lord knows there’s no point in trying to TALK to y’all, which pretty much only leaves . . . well, you know.
So just hush up ‘n bend over again, ‘kay? We’re in a hurry here.
Fuck AIG with the most sincere and heartfelt fucking a person can wish upon them. I worked for these pricks back in the 90′s, so I know what utter assholes most of them can be.
As long as scumbags like bush are in charge, his buddy corporate scumbags will be bailed out of their messes at our expense. Expect that to change when smirk leaves for Paraguay and a Democrat takes over. To say the times will be interesting is an understatement.
Mayo. Last.
@406 – keep spitting out soundbites, and try not to be too surprised when not as much changes if the election turns out like you wish. Hopefully you don’t have too much emotionally invested in your Democrat Nirvana Nation.
Does anyone know if the deal documents (particularly the warrants) are public yet? AIG hasn’t filed them, but I need to track them down if at all possible. Anyone have any ideas? Many thanks.
Hey check out this link to see some funny cartoons on this whole financial mess!!! http://www.cafepress.com/trendyhumor
@408 – Stop being a hardheaded repug that takes his/her talking points from overpaid weasels like Hannity/Limbaugh. I didn’t say it would be nirvana under the dems, I said that once smirk goes bye-bye the buyout cover for corporate scumbags will stop and the shit will really hit the fan and morons like yourself will see the true extent of bush’s fucking over of amerika for the rich.
@411
Actually, you are incorrect.
Under the republicans, there will be no nirvana, but there won’t be radical poverty either, and, most importantly, there will be opportunity for everyone to make a buck.
Under the dems, institutionalized poverty from day 3.
The financial crisis is another page in the book orchestrated by opportunist Jews. Once again, we have destruction for the benefit of the hard-line Jewish-American and Israel.
At least this time, they’re risky bets backfired.
- Wolfowitz doctrine
- Iraq war
- Mortgage backed securities, overleveraging, squeezing the dollar
How do you know you’re surrounded by zionist Jews?
When they see bad events happen on TV, they first question they say is “is it good or bad for the Jews?”
Watch how US will implode from the actions of these policy makers and financiers.
next up: Iran
The outlook for the US 20 years from now is bleak.
Some remarks:
1. AIG is behaving exactly as we predicted in the above comments and on the blog.
2. One or two comments implied that TImalerts are using our material regaing trading strategies for AIG and LEH. All material is original and our property. If someone is using it, it is intellectual theft of our property. Read point three for the reward.
3. We will reward anyone with money if you can produce evidence that others are reporting the same as we reported without credit to us. Please contact us. We should have a good law suit case.
4. AIG relaized volatility is contracting, which makes the selling of ITM puts the right to trade that babe! Another one in the bag.
Principles and methods on how to play AIG were published below.
http://financialtraders.blogspot.com
@412 – Eight years of failed republican policies weren’t enough for you. You have to have more. OK. Have fun on the soup line.
@47
The ability to distinguish “you’re/your” applies to public high school graduates who are Gen X or older, although it’s known to wane when people are excited; moreover, spellcheckers don’t flag it. Care to guess which political party is most closely tied to public schooling?
“The Real Culprits in this Meltdown” from IBD:
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709
Really Last
@ 408 – please come back when you have graduated from high school. Hopefully you will have learned to mask some of your ignorance by then.
@ 408 – please come back when you have graduated from high school. Hopefully you will have learned to mask some of your ignorance by then.
huh?
@408 – this is 406. You are an ass. If you could read, you would see that I just said that the politics don’t matter here – a Dem in charge isn’t going to go after any “bush buddy corporate scumbags”. Or boogeymen, or Masons, or any other “rich guy” conspiracy your paranoid feeble brain comes up with. So keep on hoping for the “Change” you think will happen, but prepare for things to not change much at all.
See? Unlike your post, no “talking points here”. OK – your turn to channel Barbara Streisand / Michael Moore and the rest of your heroes in the “Hollywood Intelligentsia” (since you felt the need to attribute my comments to random people) and continue opining about things you no nothing about.
@408 – this is 406. You are an ass. If you could read, you would see that I just said that the politics don’t matter here – a Dem in charge isn’t going to go after any “bush buddy corporate scumbags”. Or boogeymen, or Masons, or any other “rich guy” conspiracy your paranoid feeble brain comes up with. So keep on hoping for the “Change” you think will happen, but prepare for things to not change much at all.
See? Unlike your post, no “talking points here”. OK – your turn to channel Barbara Streisand / Michael Moore and the rest of your heroes in the “Hollywood Intelligentsia” (since you felt the need to attribute my comments to random people) and continue opining about things you know nothing about.
It suffered from a liquidity crisis after its credit ratings were downgraded below “AA” levels, and the Federal Reserve Bank on September 16, 2008, created an $85 billion credit facility to enable the company to meet collateral and other cash obligations, at the cost to AIG of the issuance of a stock warrant to the Federal Reserve Bank for 79.9% of the equity of AIG. In November 2008 the U.S. government revised its loan package to the company, increasing the total amount to $152 billion. AIG is attempting to sell assets to repay the loans. Most American households carry over $10,000 in credit card debt. It makes you wonder if using the little plastic things is worth it. Well, most people would be well advised to get some credit card tips. First off, use them very sparingly, a small purchase or two every few months, and pay it off promptly. Don’t rely on them for financial support, and if you have unexpected expenses every now and again, try small personal loans instead, and again, sparingly. It is better to budget well, and live within your means so that you don’t end up strapped with credit card debt. Credit card debt is a monster. To read more about this article check out at: http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/03/05/personal-loans-manage-credit-card-debt/
fG53wj Im thankful for the post.Really thank you! Much obliged.