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Good Morning America interviewed Representatives Marcy Kaptur (D-OH) and Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO) this morning; both were on Team Nay yesterday at the Patriot Act Rescue Bill game.* If you don't have time for the six minute clip, just start paying attention at around 4:45. That's when Kaptur says "I think one of the problems is that Mr. Paulson is a day trader."
*That's another idea along the lines of the name change. Somehow we should convince people this is about football.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:45PM
These two are congresswomen? The one on the left looks like a church organist and the one on the right looks like a waitress at Waffle House.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:48PM
I thought the one on the right worked the coat check room at Cheetah
Posted by Anal_yst, Sep 30, 2008 2:49PM
@ 3
...and neither of them knows shit about fuck, more importantly
oye! l shana tova, or something, sigh...
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:51PM
let me just say that this and the subsequent comments have made my day. Thank you.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:51PM
the one on the right looks like a bad real estate agent. remember, every time is a good time to buy!
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:52PM
I can't believe this shit. America deserves to fail. I hate this fucking country, so dumb.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:52PM
As soon as we're done sharing tuna casserole recipes we'll get right to fixing the mark-to-market day-trading subprimes.
Posted by Mr Jones, Sep 30, 2008 2:53PM
You have to be f-ing kidding me with this shit. Wall Street, "Calm down, don't panic..."
F U Grandma! Go back and study those talking points again.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:59PM
The problem is that Ben Bernanke is a Hedge Fund manager and that banks really shouldn't be allowed to make loans...
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:03PM
@12 You NEED to calm down. What's the matter -- you can't don't have any real skills after your job as a pump and dump wall street day trader is finished? You need to face facts. Your kind created this mess with speculative overleveraged lending. The solution is less credit and more responsibility for the frat boy traders. The bailout is an abomination.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:03PM
We get the government we deserve. I grew up in Missouri and these bad hair-do'd (woman on left is soooo awesomely trashy), smarmy church ladies look and sound like everyone I knew growing up (and a few relatives to boot). Now I work on Wall Street, so I'm a snarky, cynical phuck who is paid too much. Or used to be. Paulson's problem is that he's a really crappy communicator and public speaker. He and his posse need to get their message across to people like this and their constituents, despite the pain involved.
Gotta give props to the lady for calling Paulson a day trader. And who does she think she is, Dr. Phil, with all that "you need to calm down and relax" crap? Gotta love the theater of all this and all the narrative that's being spun...
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:04PM
We get the government we deserve. I grew up in Missouri and these bad hair-do'd (woman on left is soooo awesomely trashy), smarmy church ladies look and sound like everyone I knew growing up (and a few relatives to boot). Now I work on Wall Street, so I'm a snarky, cynical phuck who is paid too much. Or used to be. Paulson's problem is that he's a really crappy communicator and public speaker. He and his posse need to get their message across to people like this and their constituents, despite the pain involved.
Gotta give props to the lady for calling Paulson a day trader. And who does she think she is, Dr. Phil, with all that "you need to calm down and relax" crap? Gotta love the theater of all this and all the narrative that's being spun...
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:04PM
We get the government we deserve. I grew up in Missouri and these bad hair-do'd (woman on left is soooo awesomely trashy), smarmy church ladies look and sound like everyone I knew growing up (and a few relatives to boot). Now I work on Wall Street, so I'm a snarky, cynical phuck who is paid too much. Or used to be. Paulson's problem is that he's a really crappy communicator and public speaker. He and his posse need to get their message across to people like this and their constituents, despite the pain involved.
Gotta give props to the lady for calling Paulson a day trader. And who does she think she is, Dr. Phil, with all that "you need to calm down and relax" crap? Gotta love the theater of all this and all the narrative that's being spun...
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:04PM
Dear Bess, not to get too picky, but the title should read: "ARE our congresswomen learning?"
Other than that, the interview was nothing short of irritating. I am sick of all these cheap populists and their oppinions on mark to market. Aura mediocritas is all well in Congress
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:05PM
"Accounting rules need to reflect reality" - doesn't that mean mark to market for current value of assets?
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:05PM
Guys:
Why are you spending your time talking about the past. You have to be ahead of the curve.
I wrote yesterday that you should buy the bottom towards the close. It has made a lot of money.
Now it is time to take profits. A call to this effect has just been issued at financialtraders.blogspot.com . 80 NDX profits in less than 5 hours of trading!
http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/09/nq-qqqq-ndx-qid-stock-trading-profit.html
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:06PM
@16 Give me three good reason why the average taxpayer who doesn't work on Wall Street needs to support the $700 billion dollar bailout.
Posted by Debter, Sep 30, 2008 3:07PM
did watch, more depressed...not only is Paulson a "day-trader" but she then goes on to say he's not a banker...W.T.F.! Christ
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:08PM
1) The value of the retirement savings will fall dramatically without it.
2) The value of their houses will fall dramatically without it.
3) The majority of the spending power in the U.S. will evaporate without killing the remainder of the economy that it supports.
Shall i go on...?
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:08PM
@19:
"Is our congresswomen learning" is a play on a statement made by (Bush? I think) when he asked a rhetorical question along the lines of "is our children learning?"
It's a pretty obscure joke, no harm in not getting it
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:09PM
@ 22 - I will give you two reasons.
Both my reasons are pictured in the videio above. You feel safe with these dried up hatchet wounds at the wheel of the US economic train?
Posted by american bandersnatch, Sep 30, 2008 3:10PM
I weep for the country after watching that clip.
To #22:
(1) if they want to borrow money (mortgage, credit card, etc.)
(2) if they work for a business that has leverage
(3) if they work for a business that sells to entities that have leverage.
I know this is a small percentage of the population, but ...
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:11PM
22 1) $700 billion is not a cost, its an investment - for which the Tresury will have a positive carry 2) the real cost will be the loss that happens when its over and time to unwind, which under conservative assumptions should be small 3) in the meantime, the economy will benefit from freed up liquidity, generating additional tax revenue.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:11PM
this video explains alot about yesterday's vote. were we all that naive to think our leadership would guide us through this mess? MY GOD BRING BACK PIERPONT MORGAN'S CORPSE.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:11PM
24,
But what about the average taxpayer that doesn't work on Wall Street? Why should AVERAGE AMERICANS support the bailout?
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:14PM
33 Huh? dont average americans have homes and retirement savings and a general interest in a sound economy? What makes you think only people that work on Wall Street care about such things.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:17PM
@33
are you dense? Do you like going to the grocery store and finding a well stocked store with low prices and enough stadff to operate it?
what about taxes? do you like taxes being raised for even teh poorest populations to ensure we can cover wellfare?
What about large corporations like walmart or others shutting down in the less profitable locations (small town america)
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:17PM
@33
are you dense? Do you like going to the grocery store and finding a well stocked store with low prices and enough stadff to operate it?
what about taxes? do you like taxes being raised for even teh poorest populations to ensure we can cover wellfare?
What about large corporations like walmart or others shutting down in the less profitable locations (small town america)
Posted by Mr Jones, Sep 30, 2008 3:18PM
@15 First of all, eat me. Second of all, refer to @24. Third, get a friggin clue - we ALL depend on credit, which has totally dried up. This isn't a Wall Street bailout, it's a bailout of our economy. And, the ass clown regulators, who ignored the fact that 50%+ of the mortgages in California were option arms are the ones who are at fault here. Wall Street hedgies didn't create this problem.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:19PM
Kaptur's district is Toledo, OH. Basically a rustbelt carcass. Could be that things can't get any worse there.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:19PM
@ 35 & 36
If you really think that Wal-mart isn't profitable in their rural, small-town locations, you've obviously never been in a rural, small-town location.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:19PM
#33 - Please try to keep up. That is directed at average americans.
The average American has little to no savings. They think their credit limits on their 24.99% Bank of Wichita Visa is part of their net worth. They have a mortgage they don't understand, and a drive a truck they can't afford to put gas into.
The bailout saves them from themselves.
Make Wall St pay for it? What does that mean. The average Wall St. employee likely has a checking account with more $$ than Joe Smith makes in a year. It will hurt on Wall St for a while, but we have the savings to whether the storm better than most.
Posted by RAW DOG, Sep 30, 2008 3:19PM
@22 and for everyone else...
What will happen if Congress doesn't act:
- The US stock market tanks. Bank shares collapse, as do the valuations of all highly leveraged financial institutions. Weaker versions of this occur in Europe, in Japan and in the emerging markets.
- CDS spreads for banks explode, as will those of all highly leveraged financial institutions. Credits spreads generally take on loan-shark proportions, even for reputable borrowers. Again the rest of the world will experience a slightly milder version of this.
- No US bank will lend to any other US bank or any other highly leveraged institution. The same will happen elsewhere. Remaining sources of external finance for banks, other than the facilities created by the central banks and the Treasuries, will dry up.
Banks and other highly leveraged institutions will try to unload assets at fire-sale prices in illiquid markets. Even assets not viewed as toxic before will become unsaleable at any price.
- The interaction of a growing lack of funding liquidity and increasing market illiquidity will destroy the banks’ business models.
- Banks will stop providing credit to households and to non-financial enterprises.
- Banks will collapse, both through balance sheet insolvency and through liquidity insolvency. No bank will be safe, not even the household names for whom the crisis has thus far brought more opportunities than disasters.
- Other highly leveraged financial institutions collapse on a large scale.
Households and non-financial businesses revert to financial autarky, among wide-spread defaults and insolvencies.
- Consumer demand and investment demand collapse.
- Unemployment shoots up.
- The government suspends all trading in financial stocks until further notice.
- The government nationalises all US banks and other highly leveraged financial institutions. The shareholders get nothing up front and have to wait for an eventual re-privatisation or liquididation to find out whether they are left with anything at all. Holders of bank debt get a sizeable haircut ‘up front’ on the face value of the debt and have part of the remainder converted into equity that shares the fate of the old equity.
- We have the Great Depression of the 2010s.
Cite your sources? Here ya go:
http://blogs.ft.com/maverecon/2008/09/those-whom-the-gods-would-destroy-they-first-make-mad/
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:20PM
@22, 24 and 30 cover it nicely. I'll add another truth that you will find obnoxious. I employ 4 people full time and pay tuition to 4 schools. You can hate me or love me, but the multiplier effect of people like me losing their jobs, even ones who don't create toxic schitt and sell CDO's, will ripple through the economy like poison.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:21PM
33,
1. Because they won't be able to get a loan to buy a house
2. Small businesses can't get loans and won't be able to give these average americans jobs
3. People won't have access to credit cards
etc, etc, etc
The reality is the entire economic cycle depends on borrowing and without lenders, average americans will be affected.
Not that the bill solves all the issues as nobody will require that the banks must lend, but at least its a start
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:23PM
33 here - Just practicing for my congressional run. Was I convincing?
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:27PM
What a fucking joke...
I'll bet they think an owner of a gas station is a Big Oil man...
And the today show should stick to brownies, weddings and the newest diet craze and back up off finance shit.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:28PM
what difference does it make.. all the politicans turn me off.. as far as i am concerned wallstreet controls washington & that is it.
they can all bend over, touch their toes & kiss their butt's good-by..
Posted by peWonderWoman, Sep 30, 2008 3:29PM
@41 and everyone else.
That article was from the FT, have you seen this article: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:29PM
KILL THE BAILOUT!!!
I'm completely for it, but some sick, sadistic part of me wants to see these stupid, fucking, middle america, nascar watching, busch lite drinking, douschemonkeys squirm when this all comes home to roost. Fucking idiots.
I'm moving to Uzbekistan.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:30PM
Has anyone considered, that a typical big shot in financials made 1-2 million per year for the last 6 or 7 years and can safely retire with 10 million plus in savings? They will weather this one way or the other - it's the regular Joes/Janes in wall street or main street who'll get the think end of the stick when the economy collapses. I hear a lot of talk about "I'll take my chances, as long as the fat-cats are being punished". Guess what, they are not. And if you go to CEO level, the likes of Dick Fuld made at least 200 million + already, they are not going to hurt that much even if they get zero dollars today as their institutions fail. However as American institutions fail, regular folks will pay in terms of less credit, losses in pension funds, higher unemployment, much lower tax revenue (who do you think pay bulk of the taxes?) and on and on. My two cents.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:30PM
These woman prob have such fat asses they don't need to bend over as some much look over their shoulder.
Boo. Ya.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:31PM
@37 That's the problem. You have too much risky credit being given out to borrowers with crappy credit in the form of subprime mortgages, home equity loans, car loans, payday loans, credit cards, 0% balance transfers, student loans, etc. The banks need to tighten up lending standards. The economy needs to deflate to drive out the risky overleveraged lenders. The bailout bill rewards the risky speculators and encourages them to lend money to build luxury homes in the desert 60 miles from any job. The average American who pays his bills on time and has a low debt to income ratio and good savings will be screwed by the bailout plan. Deflation will help us by making our currency stronger.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:36PM
I agree with @50. KILL THE BAILOUT. Let's all go stand in the soup line together.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:37PM
@53 hope you enjoy deflation or err depression as you lose your job and cannot pay those bills anymore. The bailout bill is to stabilize the economy, I won't call it rewarding risky speculators where executive pay is being curbed & assets are being bought with 30-40-50% loss to the asset-holders.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:38PM
33 -
Because the average Wall Street employee has enough cash lying around to survive a credit freeze and you don't. Statistical fact. Most Americans have little/no net worth. Debt, second mortgages and credit limits are not wealth.
Credit card companies have already slashed limits. That's just the start.
This isn't about the stock market. This is about the TED looking like the stock market, moving around more in a day than what it is supposed to *be* at in a normal credit environment. I never thought I would enjoy seeing it almost break 300 basis points - heading down.
Most businesses have shitty profit margins. A multiple % increase in the cost of borrowing money is going to hurt them severely. They will either fold outright (countless small businesses that are always on the edge will become unprofitable at new interest rates or unable to get credit completely and fall off it) or they will dramatically slash their spending, which means their purchasing and payroll (bigger businesses, like the retail chains at the mall).
I live in a very well-off part of the country and I've seen two luxury small businesses in my $100K+ average income "town" eat it already. One was a restaurant, one was a high-end grocer. They went down recently, but before this most recent awful spasm in the credit markets. It's not hard to figure out what did them in - declining sales and expensive borrowing.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:41PM
The AVERAGE american IS tied to the financial markets. Even if they are not invested in stocks/bonds and that they don't keep their cash in a bank, chances are that they are employed, and that their employer is tied into the markets. Is there employer invested? Does their employer borrow money and is said employer tied to the credit markets? This "financial" crisis is actually a global crisis. Even the stops aren't put in place, the whole system could come crashing down, e.g. FNM, FRE, AIG, MER, LEH, WM, WB...to be continued
HoLLa aT dA KiD
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:42PM
Luck. Runs. Out.
Crawl from the wreckage one more time
Horrific memory twists the mind
Dark, rugged, cold and hard to turn
Path of destruction, feel it burn
Still life
Incarnation
Still life
Infamy
Hallucination
Heresy
Still you run, what's to come?
What's today?
'Cause we hunt you down without mercy
Hunt you down all nightmare long
Feel us breathe upon your face
Feel us shift, every move we trace
Hunt you down without mercy
Hunt you down all nightmare long, yeah
Luck. Runs.
You crawl back in
But your luck runs out
Luck. Runs. Out.
The light that is not light is here
To flush you out with your own fear
You hide, you hide, but will be found
Release your crypt without a sound
Still life
Immolation
Still life
Infamy
Hallucination
Heresy
Still you run, what's to come?
What's today?
'Cause we hunt you down without mercy
Hunt you down all nightmare long
Feel us breathe upon your face
Feel us shift, every move we trace
Hunt you down without mercy
Hunt you down all nightmare long
Luck. Runs.
You crawl back in
But your luck runs out
Then you crawl back in
Into your obsession
Never to return
This is your confession
Hunt you down without mercy
Hunt you down all nightmare long
Feel us breathe upon your face
Feel us shift, every move we trace
Hunt you down without mercy
Hunt you down all nightmare long, yeah
Luck. Runs.
You crawl back in
But your luck runs out
Your luck runs out
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:45PM
@58
you getting unemployed in depression != worldwide economic collapse
however, it does have to start somewhere.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:47PM
Here's a news flash to all the self serving assholes on this site who got us here and now want a bailout so the entire world will stop spinning. THESE LADIES ARE RIGHT.
"The world is going to end if you don't save us!" Bullshit. If the world is going to end, which it wont, this bailout will do nothing to stop it or for the problems that exist and the unavoidable correction.
And maybe all you genius bankers can can do better than hopping on without question to whatever crap plan Paulsen came up with when he hit his head in the shower and a number he came up with when scratching himself.
Thank God these ladies are there and thinking clearly and for the better good, unlike and scum-fucking banker.
Posted by RAW DOG, Sep 30, 2008 3:47PM
@49 - As soon as that libertarian economist from the ivy towers of academia comes down from his theoretical ledge of "assume all things being equal" and provides some concrete step-by-step prognostication of what should happen post-no-bailout, just as the FT has done above, which leads to his happy little ending of "let's skip all the sad stuff in the middle and jump to hey, look everyone, all the trash assets are gone and everyone's okay." Only then will I even consider his position. That article was a bunch of hogwash, theoretical nonsense void of all practical logic.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:48PM
Actually, no, 58. You add up a lot of little failing companies, you get one very big problem.
The bigger companies probably won't fail. They'll just fire people and stop buying from their suppliers, which means that their suppliers will fire people. People who get fired tend to stop spending. They also will - now - stop being able to get credit.
I suppose we can keep them alive on welfare and unemployment, but do you really think they're going to be adding a lot to the economy?
When fucking PNC is having a hard time rolling commerical paper, what do you think is happening to more marginal concerns?
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:50PM
There should now be no doubt that we are totally f*cking screwed with the likes of these 2 bitties.
They clearly have NO CLUE as to what the issues are or what they mean.
So ... if you have anything to get off your chest, why not feel free to call them or drop them a line, or better yet, invite them over for kringle and coffee.
(All is fair; this info is directly from their websites ... or is this another media "gotcha" moment)?
Marcy Kaptur
Washington Office
2186 Rayburn Bldg.
Washington, DC 20515
Tel: (202) 225-4146
Fax: (202) 225-7711
Ohio Office
One Maritime Plaza - Sixth Floor
Toledo, Ohio 43604
(800)964-4699 | Tel: (419) 259-7500
Fax: (419) 255-9623
Marilyn Musgrave
Washington, DC
1507 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-4676
(202) 225-5870 fax
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:55PM
The bailout sucks because:
1) the govt. doesn't know the value of the mortgage backed securities -- the banks will lie about the value and the Feds will pay real dollars for elctronic bits and bytes.
2) it fails to prevent the problem from recurring -- overleveraged risky lending needs to be banned. I can't say where the line is but when you have 300% pay day loans and mortgages that triple when they re-set, then yes that is way over the line. The Fed needs to step and draw a line between legal and illegal, too risky lending
3) the speculative lenders are getting paid off while the average Joe gets nothing.
The solution:
1) Jail the subprime lenders and the banks that securitized them.
People with good credit will continue to get loans -- there are over 7000 banks in the US -- most avoided the subprime laons. People with risky credit can borrow from ma and pa and from social lending sites. Say no to the bailout!
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:58PM
@63 and how are you going to fund welfare when tax revenue drops astronomically? I'm with @50, let's kill the bailout and see how these geniuses fare in a the upcoming down turn.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 3:59PM
61, mARKET HAS REBOUNDED COZ dEMS AND rEPUBLICANS AND pRESIDENT BASICALLY SAID, WE'RE GONNA KEEP VOTING UNTIL WE GETT EH RIGHT RESULT. dO YOU THINK MARKET WOULD BE UP IF THEY SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, LET THE FAT CATS EAT IT.
plus, WHY IS IT FAT FUCKS WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT FAT CAT?
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:00PM
people are creative and resourceful. strong companies will find ways to profit from either side of the situation we face. the problem the markets face now is the uncertainty of the rules to play by. the government and regulatory agencies can help by implementing a bailout of sorts or commit to letting the markets adjust naturally, however painful that may be. the volatility currently seen in markets across the world is a result of a handful of people having far too much control over our financial systems.
let the government print a common money, let the government protect us from foreign attack, but we should never allow the government to have the type of power to drop the dow jones 777 points on a single vote.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:01PM
Yep, the real culprit here is mark to market accounting rules. Too much transparency and pricing information, that's the problem with those pesky asset backed securities.
Could only get halfway through the video clip before throwing up in my mouth.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:02PM
This is rich ... Explains her Paulson-Hate
(From Wikipedia:)
Marcia Carolyn "Marcy" Kaptur (born June 17, 1946) is a Democratic politician in the United States House of Representatives for the Ninth Congressional District of Ohio. The district is based in Toledo.
Serving her thirteenth term, Kaptur is currently the most senior woman in Congress and in the House of Representatives; she ranks 32nd out of 435 members on the seniority list.
Gaffes
While running for re-election in 2004, Kaptur compared Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda's religious extremism to that of Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys. [1][2]
In January 2008, during Ben Bernanke's House testimony, Kaptur confused the Fed chairman Ben Bernanke for Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson to have been a former CEO of Goldman Sachs. Just as she quickly realized that Paulson was the former CEO of GS, Mr. Bernanke corrected her and said he was "the CEO of the Princeton Economics Department"[4]
Posted by peWonderWoman, Sep 30, 2008 4:02PM
@ Raw Dog
So just so I am clear here, you are telling me Bush, George W. Bush, GW, Georgie Boy.... the man with an approval rating which is only a hair better than the all-time lows set by Harry Truman and Richard Nixon... has the MASTER PLAN and that the "libertarian economist from the ivy towers of academia" is "a bunch of hogwash, theoretical nonsense void of all practical logic"
I absolutely believe, even before the "libertarian economist from the ivy towers of academia" said it- "Talk of Armageddon, however, is ridiculous scare-mongering. If financial institutions cannot make productive loans, a profit opportunity exists for someone else. This might not happen instantly, but it will happen."
I do not support a bailout plan for anyone. Not Main Street, not Wall Street, Not anyone- I support accountability of our actions and I believe that we will face hard times but we will get out of them- stronger and better then when we started. We are the hardest working country in the world with the most determination. We will survive-- hey hey.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:02PM
Why do guys trust Paulson to save the day?
As CEO of Goldman, he played a major part in causing this mess by doing securitizations like crazy. Goldman then shorted the markets causing them to collapse. Paulson then headed off to DC where he claimed the housing markets were fine. He continued to allow securizations deals to continue -- Lehman was doing them well into 2007. He then asked for and got rate cuts. He then bailed out Bear Stearns, Countrywide, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Indy Mac, etc. None of these bailouts solved the problem which that bankers made risky loans and then lied about their losses and their leverage. Now, it's an emergency and the taxpayers are getting their pockets picked.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:03PM
Calm down everyone, calm down. I can hear the anxiety in your voices.
Hank "The Master of the Universe" has everything under control.
Quit peeing in your pink panties.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:04PM
@ 50 here...
Glad to hear a few agree. I'm going to the store tonight to buy canned goods, ammo, diapers, and a helmet.
See you all at Catholic Charities!
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:07PM
people are creative and resourceful. strong companies will find ways to profit from either side of the situation we face. the problem the markets face now is the uncertainty of the rules to play by. the government and regulatory agencies can help by implementing a bailout of sorts or commit to letting the markets adjust naturally, however painful that may be. the volatility currently seen in markets across the world is a result of a handful of people having far too much control over our financial systems.
let the government print a common money, let the government protect us from foreign attack, but we should never allow the government to have the type of power to drop the dow jones 777 points on a single vote.
Posted by peWonderWoman, Sep 30, 2008 4:09PM
AMEN 75!
"let the government print a common money, let the government protect us from foreign attack, but we should never allow the government to have the type of power to drop the dow jones 777 points on a single vote."
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:13PM
@76 No. I am an attorney. I have seen first hand the fraudulent securization deals that Goldman Sachs engaged in. These borrowers never had a chance. Once thir mortgages reset, they would be forced to sell or refi with even more debt. Goldman made billions and should now pay up for its sins.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:21PM
if i looked like the one on the left, i would hang myself and mail a picture to GW.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:23PM
holy cow, i dont know that i've ever been more afraid than i am now after watching those two women. ay caramba.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:25PM
@80 main street is proposing to divide 85 billion among 200 million americans and coming up with 425,000 per person (will really be 425 person). Genius then goes on to say how with that money everyone can pay off mortgages, college tution, buy car, pay taxes ... and on and on. These are the geniuses driving policy who can't differentiate between $425 and $425,000? Beautiful. I hope you didn't post thinking he had a 'great' idea.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:28PM
clearly these women know their knitting - they are on the Agriculture Committee, after all.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:30PM
@80
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-99517
Guy proposes 85 trillion bailout for main street ($425,000 per person for 200 million Americans).
Can someone please forward this to congress pronto?
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:31PM
79 is lying... he was the creator/producer of the hit show "FLIP THAT HOUSE"
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:31PM
@80/83 yeah, so maybe the math was a little off but think of the $700 billion plan! Thats $3,500 for every american person. I mean with that kind of money we could... umm... well we could do a lot.. we could... um... all buy a lcd tv!
give me a break.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:35PM
87 you prove your misunderstanding to grasp this concept
the $700B is not being spent it is being invested
YES it is an investment of 3500 per person, probably more than many main st have prepared for their retirements
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:35PM
Hi guys, I'm a ex GS ceo, now a Merrill/BofA retail broker (lev 2 CFA candidate).
you all need to relax, I can hear the anxiety in your voices
we just need to chnge the mark to market rules
it will unseize the banks and they can lend again
i mean, calm down, i'm wearing a blue skirtsuit, and its not even sunday, tarnashins...
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:37PM
84 That's why they're confused. That amount spent on ag would be a wealth transfer from the US to the farmer (who in reality is a big corporate entity). In the case of the problem at hand (don't make me say bailout) its a temp investment, not a wealth transfer.
Posted by MarshallStack, Sep 30, 2008 4:39PM
Beardstown Women's Knitting Circle Jerk and Cheyne Finance Tranche Eating Club.
Some of us banked it and moved 500 miles away. Let the fucking thing fail again on Thursday, fine by me. 8300 beckons. Might as well get there this week.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:42PM
I posted the link both for the hilarity of his terrible math and to show just how little the unwashed masses know about what's going on right now.
I mean really "what would you do with all the money?"... well, for starters, the real question is more along the lines of "what would you do with a $425 loan at 11% interest" - but even this concept is apparently too difficult for main street to grasp.
- 80
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:43PM
Wow. Those two clams terrify me. They are so stupid and misinformed it is painful to watch. I fear for this country.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:47PM
@95 i suggest you join up with http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-99517
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 4:58PM
@76-
Bullshit. We're not a Brooklyn jury, so save your shit for someone else.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:09PM
@97 What's the matter? Are you worried that the fraudulent deals you did will come back to haunt you? I bet you look real pretty in silver bracelets and an orange jumpsuit. Comply with Sarbanes-Oxley or suffer the consequences.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:13PM
@96 I suggest you quit telling the American taxpayer what to do. We the people are not financing your junk! You and your ilk made the subprime loans and you can live with the consequences. We the people will fight corruption and defend the dollar to the death.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:16PM
99 I think the point is that we will all live with the consequences if the "junk" isn't financed. And frankly if it comes to that I'll bet Paulson and I and all of our buds are much better prepared for that than you are.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:19PM
Good Heavens! These two are not fit to open a cupcake shop.
(Keep hearing Dana Carvey's Church Lady, "Isn't that Special...)
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:26PM
@97- Sorry, parasite- I know you guys thought you heard a siren, but you heard wrong.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:26PM
@ 95...really? you used the fucking word "Ginormous" in what was supposed to be a serious attempt at assailing a gov't measure you disagree with? Seriously? Using made up fucking words?
They should disconnect the internet from your subprime, methlab, mobile home.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:29PM
The Dow ended up almost 500 points. Seems like you guys need to go back to CUNY business school.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:30PM
@104 You resort to ad hominem attacks because you can't defend a hastily prepared bailout bill that only helps out the Wall Street speculators. Why not have the Fed lend directly to the people and avoid the moral hazard of lending to speculators like you?
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 5:31PM
@99 - if you are one of the bottom 50% income bracket who contributed about 3% in taxes, you can take your 'financing' elsewhere. But hey I'm with you on stopping the bailout - you can make a pretty penny in a market crash as long as you bet right. Time to go long average american stupidity and short the whole economy (which you are btw a part of).
Posted by Novice, Sep 30, 2008 6:19PM
@106 small-scale heavy industry worked so well during the Cultural Revolution, who's to say small-scale corporate finance won't be another smashing success?
@105 I know it's difficult to concentrate for so long but try reading the first two paragraphs of the WSJ:
"Stocks staged a whiplash-inducing rebound Tuesday, recovering more than half the previous session's record losses amid widespread hope that a bailout plan for Wall Street will be revived in Congress.
"The prospects for government intervention to prop up the U.S. financial system continued to dominate traders' attention Tuesday, although it remained unclear what changes might be necessary to win over House members who surprisingly voted down a rescue package Monday. That in turn sparked a historic market plunge that included a 778-point drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the biggest one-day decline in the blue-chip measure in its 112-year history."
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 6:39PM
@108 Today's gain was the 3rd highest one-day gain in the blue-chip measure in its 112-history.
I will try and concentrate to make sure I read that tomorrow in the WSJ.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 6:55PM
@ 109, please don't be retarded.
Whether you're for or against the bailout, the idea that market indices will react very positively to a bailout, and very negatively to no bailout, is not up for debate.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 7:05PM
@108 You are right -- we need a cultural revolution. We need the culture to respect hard work and to value the dollar. Your pro-bailout friends will lead us down the road to ruin -- higher inflation and more risky debt. Soon we will become Argentina circa 2002.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 7:07PM
Nationalize the profitable oil companies not the unprofitable banks.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 7:29PM
That clip is great. I love how the Rep. Kaptur tells the news reporter to calm down. It's like: "kids, calm down, grandma will read you a story about how granpa survived the great depression by selling his gold watch."
Posted by Novice, Sep 30, 2008 7:38PM
@109 You'll find it, right next to the news that your legislators are slowly being convinced that they're fools for listening to people like you.
@111 We're headed towards becoming the United States, 1907. Unfortunately Morgan's bald successors just got trumped by the PTA social committee.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 8:04PM
These clueless grandmothers have two more votes than Paulson.
Yay democracy...
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 11:15PM
You know what scares me most.
The class warfare seems to be clouding the judgement of those who need it most.
They are so angry at those that made it to the top 5% that they cannot think straight. They are so anxious for those top 5% to fall towards the middle that they can't see that if they fall to the middle, the middle falls to the bottom.
The hardest thing about this bill is if it gets passed it just gets us to the starting point. It isn't going to stop a major recession but it just may stop a depression.
I think a lot of us in the industry cannot even fathom this bil not passing. I also think if you believe the house republican's that this bill will not pass as they will not votr for it. Gasbags pointed that out today and the republican congressman on CNBC's Fast Money said that he and his collegues will not vote for this bill.
I hope there is a plan B because my gut is saying we are going to need it.
Posted by guest, Sep 30, 2008 2:44PM
another problem is 4 years ago I was a Cub Scout den mother, and that overwhelmed me