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Bloomberg confirms that Lehman Brothers is in fact still shopping broker-dealer services and asset-management.
Lehman, led by Chief Executive Officer Richard Fuld, 62, is exploring the sale of its broker-dealer operation and continues to hold talks on the sale of its asset-management unit, the company said.
Lehman Brothers to File for Bankruptcy After Suitors Drop Out
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:04AM
Shouldn't creditors have a right to put a stay on such sales? I smell lawsuit.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:05AM
lehman is pathetic.
These fuckers should just quit. They won't give up, won't they?
it's the end for Lehman. it hurts, but that's the truth, my good friend.
Delirious lehman soon-to-be-unemployed people should just accept that you will be jobless.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:05AM
Man, you guys aren't going to get much sleep tonight, eh? Sorry.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:08AM
It appears that the contingent swap trades made Sunday are void.
Not that much was accomplished in that session anyway.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:12AM
#4 First, they have not filed. The "Intend to file"
Second, a sale when bankruptcy is imminent but prior to actual fiing is OK, as long as it is not a sweetheart deal. A sweetheart deal can be one where the sale price is articificially low or the proceeds are used to benefit select creditors or non-creditors. In this case, there is so much spotlight that a sweetheart deal is not possible.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:17AM
i like how delirious Lehman soon-to-be-unemployed workers are clinging on to any speck of hope left. They keep reminding us that Lehman INTENDS to file, pointing out that Lehman has NOT YET filed for bankruptcy.
Forget it. Lehman is fucked. Everybody who was part of Lehman is fucked. Stop drinking the koolaid and stop the delirium. Lehman deserves this b/c they permeated a culture of greed and corruption. Karma's a bitch, isn't it Lehman?
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:19AM
@12 - I know shit about bankruptcy law, but it kinda feels like selling off all the copper tubing and granite countertops in your house just before you get foreclosed. Can't be legal, can it?
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:19AM
Call me misguided but I don't think this is over for LEH yet - given the timing constraints now relieved by MER/BAC action.
Poker has been played all week with only an INTENT to file announced so far.
Be careful of the media's coverage. They don't understand this situation in its full light yet.
OilRig
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:23AM
15..i agree with you
almost looks as though the media can't read
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:25AM
so no subsidiaries included in filing - so how does it work?
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:35AM
they can sell the units, so long as the proceed from the sale are distributed according to the bk laws (i.e. Creditors first, shareholders last). And as one of the previous posters mentioned it can't be a "sweetheart" deal where they do something like sell it on the cheap to a favored party or engage in some sort of self-dealing.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:41AM
@14: Yes, you can sell the copper pipes and granite countertops from yout house the day before it is foreclosed on, as long as you sell it at a fair price and give the proceeds to the foreclosing entity.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:46AM
Lehman can sell whatever they want for whatever price they want. What matters is if the judge assigned to the bk wants to disallow the sale. If it is a reasonable deal, the judge will probably allow the sale of the individual asset to proceed. When assets are the collective output of a group of individuals, keeping the group intact is the only way to the extract value of the asset. If the employees are uncertain of their compensation because of the bk filing, they will leave before the court approves any deal and the asset will lose value.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 2:11AM
Any news on job losses? Yeah, LEH sucked ass, but still feel bad for the poor souls who work there (as of this moment, maybe not working there tomorrow).
Fuck the retarded auctions already
Posted by beentheredonethat, Sep 15, 2008 2:12AM
At this point, not a penny goes in or out of LEH without the approval of both the trustees and the presiding judge. They can contract a sale of any assets they have, but its all subject to approval by the judge. Any funds that have recently left the firm, prior to the filing, are subject to recall depending on the situation. LEH is long past the point where it was in control. The sales they are shopping now is a good idea, as the more cash in the kitty, the quicker everything gets settled. Example: Better to sell NB tonight at a true market price, than have it encumbered in the BK proceedings for the next six months. If the judge thinks the price is fair, sold it is. If he thinks it was a sweetheart deal, he has the power to cancel the sale.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 2:14AM
I really dont know what the fuck is going on. What I heard from some very senior people directly is that LEH is done for and we were asked to plan accordingly. Now we hear this. Damn, too many mindgames going on over here.
I have to hand it to Thain though. He took all the difficult steps and has probably managed to save ML shareholders from wholesale disaster. Cant say the same about Fuld.
Posted by Investorcluzo, Sep 15, 2008 2:31AM
@24 - exactly, sell while you still have a position of strength. no comment on kenny's decision, but from thain's vantage point it avoids what fuld was too proud to do. mer has some toxic assets to be sure, let's just hope the same folks that (hopefully) figured out a way to ring fence countrywide's crap can do the same with merrill's...
bessy, after being mia all weekend, I must commend your efforts on the late night reporting.
btw, anyone notice that hurricane that hit houston on saturday? real lives were in danger/lost and we sat here and worried about some stupid a$$ bank going under...
Posted by beentheredonethat, Sep 15, 2008 2:32AM
There is NO MYSTERY about LEH. It is done. Exists only in the history books. The reason the b/d is not a party to the BK filing is so that customers have access to their accounts and can move the assets away from LEH. The b/d never held any of the debt, that all existed at the holding co. level.......
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 2:32AM
@24: If you are an employee, do what you are hearing from your manager and bosses. The people here are sitting on the sideline speculating and guessing about what might happen. You are living it. If you are an empoloyee, I would not change any plans based on what you read on any website.
@23: Right now there is no judge and no trustee. As of 2:30, there is no filing, just a "plan" for one. You are right, any sale tonight and every transaction over the last several months will get looked at closely after the filing and may get recalled if it is not in the best interest of the creditors.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 2:39AM
Someone has to explain why BofA agreed to a premium!! MER was sure to nosedive at market open and could have been snatched in the single digits! Ken Lewis must be a baller - throwing around all that cash even when not required. First 6.5B for worthless, actually negative value junk called CFC and not 50B for MER when he could have had it for a third of that.
Posted by beentheredonethat, Sep 15, 2008 2:45AM
@27
the lack of a filing doesn't concern me. the intent to file is enough for now, as they are gonna need a 18-wheeler to get the necessary documents to the bankruptcy court. They need all the i's dotted, and there is a frickin' army of people putting that stuff together now....and then, it might take a few more minutes to get Fuld to actually sign the filing.....I wouldn't wish that moment on anyone.....
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 2:55AM
@ Investorcluzo, if lives were lost, it's because they stayed there. I saw people on the news saying "staying here is certain death - go" If people didn't listen to that...well.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 2:59AM
Treasury needs to merge with Xerox to survive. Sell tomorrow to pay for today just print the damn money.
SPODE
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 3:05AM
My apologies for not understanding this whole process in greater detail. I am an older person (near retirement age), and my broker informed me on Friday night that he has been sitting on over 4000 shares in LEH (common stock) since January.
I am in a panicked mode right now (can hardly breathe), and I have many questions. Help!!
1. Are my holdings in LEH now worthless?
2. Can someone with some knowledge of Chapter 11 AND Parent/Subsidiary Issues provide some guidance as to what are the possible outcomes with my shares?
3. Should I sell these shares first thing this morning during pre-market, or is it possible that these shares could regain value (or receive a payout) in the future?
4. If LEH emerges from Chptr 11, would it issue new shares or trade with the old ones?
Any other advice? If you think I'm an idiot, providing me with a link that would explain this stuff would still be appreciated, especially the whole Parent-Holding Co vs. Subsidiary thing as to the Chapter 11 filing.
Thanks in advance.
Posted by hf_dbag, Sep 15, 2008 3:14AM
1. Yes. If you owned 4000 shares since the end of January you lost a total of about $250K. Most of it was lost before today- the stock went from 64 to 3.65 prior to the weekend. You didn't notice this???
2-4. Your dumbass broker can probably help you out with these.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 3:22AM
@32 - I'd like to know answers to questions 2, 3, 4 as well. Anyone besides hf_dbag_felcher have any thoughts?
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 3:26AM
@32
LEH common is gone. I doubt you'll get anything on the class action in 3 years. We have never seen anything like this before, who knows what the structure will be.
Best of luck.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 3:32AM
@28 - same thought! Ken Lewis always has impressed me as the stupidest man on Wall Street - the MER balance sheet must be REALLY cleaned up, or Lewis is a fool. I say more the latter
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 3:35AM
During bankruptcy reorg, common shareholders are last in line to receive payment from the sold assets, after the government, secured creditors (bonds), unsecured creditors (vendors, et. al), preferred shareholders, the hot dog vendor. If Lehman survives they will probably issue new shares making your old shares worthless.
The LEH shares will probably trade under a new ticker symbol to indicate their bankruptcy status if they open at all. You might as well hold onto the 4,000 shares. The stock may open at 0.10 and trade up to 0.20 by the close.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 3:41AM
@14 its legal. The reason why companies, like LEH, have subsidiaries is so that, the subs are distinct & separate legal entities, even though their shares are wholly/partially by the parent/holding company. A major reason why they create separate subs is to lessen liability, or in the case of many I-Banks is so that the entire company need not be regulated & make filings...
Posted by beentheredonethat, Sep 15, 2008 3:42AM
@32
First, I would check your holdings with a fine tooth comb before you do anything. To have had 4,000 shares of Lehman since January and not know it is inexcusable. You really need to be on top of things in these markets.
Your common stock in LEH will be effectively worthless once the filing takes place. When the market opens later in the morning, there may be a few cents to be had for each share. (Long explanation why it won't be zero but maybe 25 cents).
Lehman will not emerge from bankruptcy, as there will be a liquidation. Even if they did, your common stock would be cancelled and new stock issued when it re-emerges, but this is not in the cards.
As to the issue of the holding company, LBHI, and the broker/dealer subsidiary, there is no comfort there. The holding company is taking all the assets with it. There is no residual value at the broker/dealer once all the customers have claimed their assets.
Finally, talk to your broker and find out wht he had you in LEH stock all this time when most of us knew it was headed for disaster. Who is your brokerage?
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 4:05AM
I am @32.
First, thanks for the comments and advice.
My broker works out of a UBS branch here in California, and -- apparently --is in quite a bit of trouble with a number of clients.
I have been hospitalized (semi-comatose) for the past five months and my estate was being administered by a trustee and the broker. Between the two of them, it seems I am now worthless (except, of course, for my life insurance policy). May be time for a quick car ride into brick wall for me to ensure my family has something.
Anyway, thanks for the advice. General consensus is to sell at open then, right?
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 4:06AM
@32
To add to 39 - unfortunately, when a co liquidates, they will have to pay the creditors first, then if anything is left, the preferred stockholders can get paid and if anything left, which Iisnt likely at all in Leh's case, common stockholders can get a piece of the pie.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 4:41AM
# 32
sounds to me like you need a good securities attorney
?May be time for a quick car ride into brick wall for me to ensure my family has something"
that is by far one of the dumbest things i've ever heard anyone say
your family loves you and nothing in the world could make them understand why you would be that stupid.
as the child left behind, could care less about the money, want my dad back..
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 5:46AM
so.. umm... is UBS next??... stock is down 9% in europ mkts..
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 6:44AM
@40
I would try to go after the broker instead, seems that he fucked up pretty good, why were you in LEH shares in the first place? and since Jan? he should have closed that position 7 months ago.
And do you only own LEH shares? that seems strange aswell as no portfolio manager would put all ur assets in one share, and if he did, take him to court..
As ur other questions i believe they are fully answered, you won´t get a penny from the liquidation, and the share would probably trade around 15-20 cents.
Best of luck
Posted by Investorcluzo, Sep 15, 2008 6:57AM
@30 - don't confuse galveston with houston (the 4th largest city in the us). yes, galveston was underwater - it's essentially a barrier reef for the main land of texas. houston is a good 75 miles inland...do you have no respect for life itself?
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 7:15AM
that you tards are taking 32 seriously shows just why so many douchebags with marginal intelligence can make a fortune in this country - its like the special olympics out there...
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 7:41AM
50 clearly wasn't around for Enron or the dot-com bust.
Decent chance that 32 is real, unfortunately. One of my collegues had the unpleasant duty of explaining to a upper-middle-class lady that the investments her son and husband had put most of their savings in were not necessarily going to come back to anywhere near their original value and might not exist at all anymore, after she asked him on a cross-country flight once the small talk revealed what he did for a living. This was 2002.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 8:04AM
"just woke up from six month coma" is one of the most played out troll memes on the net.
thanks for playing tard.
Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 8:12AM
Confusing Question:
LEH was in charge of financing Evergreen Solar (ESLR), in the process providing 30 million shares to an affiliate that must be returned at some point in the future. If Lehman is bankrupt, what happens to these (shorted) shares?
Here's some details:
""Evergreen Solar (ESLR) shares are sharply lower, apparently due to the dilution from a convertible debt offering announced today and a related stock-lending agreement.
Evergreen said it priced $325 million of 4% senior convertible notes due 2013; there is a green shoe for another $48.75 million of notes. The notes convert to 82.55593 shares per $1,000 or notes, or about $12.11 a share.
Evergreen will use the proceeds to complete construction of its solar panel manufacturing plant in Devens, Mass.; to start building a new facility to produce “heat resistant string” used to make Evergreen’s solar wafers; and for other corporate purposes, including pre-payments for polysilicon and other raw materials.
In connection with the note offering, Evergreen has agreed to lend Lehman Bros., the underwriters for the deal, 30,856,538 shares for hedging transactions. Lehman will sell 18,184,511 of the borrowed shares at $9.50, with the remaining shares to be sold subsequently at prevailing market prices. Evergreen gets no proceeds from the sale, but will receive a nominal lending fee. Lehman will have to return the shares - cover its short, in other words - when the notes come due.""
I am looking everywhere for the past 2 weeks to figure this out, and even ESLR management on a special conference call wasn't able to clearly explain this - and they in fact doubted Lehman was going under.
Any ideas, guys?
Sep 17, 2008, 9:16am
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Posted by guest, Sep 15, 2008 1:03AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/LEHMAN-BROTHERS-BANKRUPTCY-DOMAIN-NAME-FALLOFLEHMAN-COM_W0QQitemZ320299692197QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320299692197&_trkparms=72:1163|39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
UNREAL!!!!