Which midwest hedge fund are Fed officials rumored to be paying a visit to right now, to deal with its impending implosion?
UPDATE, 10:00: Not that we meant Cit necessarily, but a Citadel spokeswoman called DealBreaker to say that the rumors are “Categorically false. Citadel continues to invest and operate business as usual across the globe. The firm’s liquidity remains strong with more than 30 percent of investment capital held in cash.”
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Prudential Capital
Highlander…
Citadel, no doubt
Does citadel have an office in the midwest?
holy Citadel.
obviously citadel
#5 – tell me you’re joking. Please go back to Yahoo,or under a rock
It’s not Stark.
Citadel is a Chicago fund…
Our floor guys hearing rumors they are blowing out
Supposedly the Fed has denied that they are at Citadel
I’m the CEO of a hedgefund, what’s Citadel?
Citadel.
Highlander…
Mr P… TY
~SEG
Thoughts about 30 year? Swap fails? hit me up at hedgingrisk @ aim.com
Highlander….
Highlander is in TX, that’s not the mid west. Could be FISCO.
Citadel is in Chicago so that is the midwest…
OMFG Citadel is blowing up. What is the world coming too!
jesus christ you morons obviously it’s citadel
Sentinel?
just kidding, Francis.
What do you expect?… they’re an hour behind… People in the 2nd City are asleep right now…
“There can be only one!”
BRK
@13 – where did they deny this? Link?
I heard JPM is in Washington trying to get the Fed to backstop Citadel. I believe JPM is their biggest prime broker
Obviously Citadel.
Hopefully false.
Why would anyone name their hedge fund after a Toyota?
dunno but, i hear clarium went from +50 to -50 in Oct – maybe everything west of NYC is midwest
this is as obvious its citadel as yesterdays quote from “a high insider in the republican party” came from Karl Rove
I doubt it is Citadel although I don’t doubt JPM would do some slimy things (the way they acted with Leh, Bear and Amaranth); Stark and BlackRiver seem more likely candidates.
I heard that Citadel was winding down their converts book.
Citadel. Morgan Stanley is collateral calling them…ALL their collateral. Gimme.
Very light trading in SPX options this morning — seems to me the limit down was the result of a forced liquidation reminiscent of the Soc Gen unwinding. Who would have a position large enough to dictate this kind of movement…
Hmm… I can think of a certain Chicago hedge fund..
Deephaven
Ken Griffen GO BOOM!
citadel done
Varde!
Correction 32 – everything west OR east of NYC can be accurately described as the “midwest”
Sue the T-Rex has the last laugh!
Who are these dumbshits saying Highlander.
How fucking stupid are you if you think Texas is in the midwest.
I heard it is in the South, not mid west and it is Highland or Lowland.
If this is true, this is unreal…
@35 There is no bid in converts right now, you can’t really unwind.
Cargill?
#46: I wish I could agree with you. But it’s not “unreal”. It’s expected – all these “walk on water” guys, who are all down – of course they are going to get margin calls and redemptions.
I think DB should take a poll on which big HF is next. AQR? Highland? Fortress? I believe there will be a slew of them.
Big Swinging Dick LLC
Citadel Citadel Citadel!
Hey Bess. Here’s a tip if you want to tell us who the hedge fund is “unofficially”: login as Guest and swarm the comments with “Citadel”
ha! that way, they have no way of asking you to take down the post! Eat dirt Ken!
Castle Greyskull – Skeletor has put up some horrible numbers this year!
given the fact that most major BDs have desks in Chicago where 90% of the revenue is coming from Citadel, easy to see how this rumour gets out fast
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
Fed would not bother with anyone but the top 5, so Citadel it is. Holy Shit, I am going to huddle in a fetal position in my bed, hoping I dont wet myself. If they fall, that’s it for the hedgies
Hey @ 49 WTF are you talking about? Keep your mindless drivel to yourself. People like you and cluzo are ruining DB.
Completely and utterly false.
A guy in the know
Where are the clients’ rumors?
cluzo, you are popnd scum. Get the hint. You’re a bully and ass kisser. ‘Bessy’.
if the fed is in Chitown now, it’s probably to beg Ken G to put up the duckats for his CDS exchange idea, pronto, and to immediate attain liquidity by absorbing all of AIGs book
the fact that they are taking the time to deny this…
“Categorically false” – we know the drill from there.
BTW 30% of capital in cash is a total misdirection. I run a (small) hedge fund and am 2.5 x leveraged even now, but have 90% of my capital in cash! How? Um, derivatives. Have you heard of them?
@56: how is this “drivel”? This situation is not “unreal” as #49 said – it is reality. It is what happens when you have big hedge funds subject to margin calls and panicked investors redeeming.
Now you will hear a ton of denials from Citadel and the Feds, so the market doesn’t panic further. But there are other big hedge funds. Remember all those quarterly letters? That big HSBC review? All the -30-50% guys are going to be margin called or redempt-ed out of existence and some of them will be big enough to cause ripples.
Citadel is not a hedge fund idiots!! Citadel is a merchant bank…
prgy – at it again, GO HOME!!!
You can make mean comments when you write one(1) well thought out meaninful one, just one good comment.
GO HOME!!!
FWIW: just got this email.
guy in Credit told me he just got an e-mail from Citadel CFO, saying the rumor is false, and Citadel will issue a press release about it.
LMFAO!
BTW 30% of capital in cash is a total misdirection. I run a (small) hedge fund and am 2.5 x leveraged even now, but have 90% of my capital in cash! How? Um, derivatives. Have you heard of them?
Prgy=troll=John Mark Karr?
Bess,
PNC BUYS NAT CITY
I used to work for a company that had rumors about it all the time. Comes with the territory when you are better than everyone else.
@prgy – How many times do we have to say it: go back to Perez Hilton’s board! You’re not wanted here. You are a certified loser with you head so far up your ass you can actually see daylight. If you made one intelligent comment over your lifetime it would surprise even you mom.
Does that mean PNC is like the UN saving Darfur?
could it be bridge finance. they run a bunch of funds
It is udderly false we are structured on cows.
Heard the fed is visiting Tim Sykes right now. Very concerned about his impending blow up and how it might roil the markets
honestly, PRGY is the only voice of reason.The rest of you schmucks sound like cookie cutter financial douche- bag analysts. exception to rule SEG. Cluzo fuck you.
So…we’re now totally screwed since the other shoe has dropped?
Hey @ 73. I contribute more insightful comments on DB than any other person posting here. Who is this Perez Hilton, one of your scorned lovers? Oh, and by the way, take typing lessons.
speaking of clarium, it’s gayer than peter thiel to be having a board war on DB
prgy – which one of these is “insightful” – http://dealbreaker.com/profile/prgy
NONE
78 – “cookie cutter financial douche- bag analysts” um, yes we are, this where we hang out. You should join Carney on that board for non-cookie cutter financial douche- bag analysts. You might like it more.
Given Cit’s BD operations and the size of their vol desk, if they’re not printing cash in this market they deserve to blow up…
Brother in law told me Bear Stearns is in trouble.
# 82 what’s your point??
We’re boned.
@ 82. Which one is not insightful? I’ll admit the Green Span Backers is a bit goofy but all the others are right on the money.
For real? Bear Stearns is in trouble?! I better sell all my BS.
I’m on my iPhone at Adams and Dearborn now. I don’t see anything unusual.
Citadel has their investor base so locked up their cannot be any massive redemptions.
1. Fix
2. It
3. FIX IT
@72 -
you worked at???
A. Enron
B. Amaranth
C. LTCM
D. Lehman
E. Titanic
@92:
I work at E.
LOL
So, who wants to join me in the galley for a couple cocktails? The band is still playing out on the deck, and the bartender went running away saying something about the ship is sinking! Free booze!
-mrp
Hey 92…..No, asshole. Aquila.
Mahnahmahnah!
@83 do you know anything about volatility trading? Most vol traders “sell the skew” the sell OOM Puts because that’s where the juice is. It’s a great business until the market crashes and that vol catches up with you. Just ask Doug Niederlander back in 1987 or D.E. Show/UBS back in 1997. If you think vol is rich you may be in for one of Monty Burn’s “nasty surprises”
The market will never crash so long as CNBC keeps feeding dumb money into the meat grinder.
All this in-fighting. Add some bourbon and it’s a regular family fucking reunion.
I think we should have this out like respectable men and women: Central Park, bathing suits, oil, & wrestling. Greek Style.
@72 -
you worked at???
A. Enron
B. Amaranth
C. LTCM
D. Lehman
E. Titanic
@98 Hell yea!
I’ll bring my hard on.
SPODE
It is Alyeska
sad:
http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/10/citadel-says-fed-raid-rumors-are-categorically-false-
right on, @96. There is a vol risk premium in the market. You earn that premium in good times. You pony up for it in bad times.
@94 – Didn’t you company get acquired for two lightbulbs and half a kilowatt? have fun in Kansas City and leave finance to the BSDs in NYC.
@94 – Didn’t your company get acquired for two lightbulbs? Have fun in Kansas City and leave finance to the BSDs in NYC.
hmmm carney didnt have the original rumor and then 15 mins after the update on this goes up he reprints this post without attribution to db.
@103 and of course there’s all that sweet juice in the option portion of the convertible bond unless…oopsie…gotta go now. Margin calls and such…
@108 my point was it looks like someone’s shamelessly ripping off db.
Morons, listen up. Highland is in Texas, not Highlander. Your ignorance is insane, obviously a bunch of excel users who have n o concepts of the market or its players.
Just saw KG taking car bombs at Elephant & Castle….capitulation.
at 100 that’s gay.
Yo #96…
Who is “Niederlander?” Did he used to work with John Mericlimate back at Shaloman Brothers?
I just saw KG eating a triple at the Billy Goat for breakfast. They call that the widow maker.
Ken Griffin just told his investors, “Skeet Skeet Skeet”
I might have the spelling wrong. Doug Nederlander[sic] came from old NYC money (they owned a bunch of property including some Broadway theatres) and opened his own hedge fund selling puts via the old O’Connor Captial Markets’ (another Chicago outfit) style: calculate the volatility skew and sell “irrationally” priced options, usually OOM puts. Made good money until the crash of ’87 which blew him up. He was the first poster child for what the “risk” in “risk management” stands for.
Are you talking about Victor Niederhoffer you ignorant dope?
@ 96 and 103
Citadel doesn’t track “PhD ROE”, play a role in slmost every distressed HF bailout, try to acquire clearinghouses and isn’t able to pass through all of their operating expenses to investors so they can sell puts/skew. Given their informational advantages coming into this situation, if they came in short vol/skew/correlation then, once again, they deserve what’s coming to them… We’re not talking about Wolverine (no offense to any employees) here…
http://www.finalternatives.com/node/5867
http://www.finalternatives.com/node/5863
Midwest?
You’re all wrong.
It’s Wayne Enterprises. look it up people. no one is immune.
anyone wanna buy 20 yards of converts? how bout 30?
118 here,
“isn’t able to pass through all of their operating expenses to investors ”
=
“pass through all of their operating expenses to investors “
@110, thank you.
Highland already blew up, they laid off tons of good people on Wednesday and shut down two funds.
…And I highly doubt it’s Cargill.
Just as an aside, I hear that HBK is in pretty murky waters as well (not midwest though).
@118 I thought those correlation trades were dead long ago. Although mwybe they have some vol/var swaps on their books. You never know.
And wasn’t it just a few years ago that Amaranth was finding unusual opportunities in OOM Nat Gas options?
Just heard from a friend at Citadel. He’s flipping out–apparently the feds are pretty much swarming the place.
Not true – Ken just had his favorite Custard trucked in from Wisconsin to share with the employees
reliable sources tell me citadel is liquidating their equity book to bet the whole firm on shorting cds, if it widens anymore they are toast
@110
We’re quants then?
=nuveen)
Anyone have Citadel Associate numbers?
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can retain a tremendous amount of risk given how low haircuts are on most risky trades.
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can retain a tremendous amount of risk given how low haircuts are on most risky trades.
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can retain a tremendous amount of risk given how low haircuts are on most risky trades.
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can retain a tremendous amount of risk given how low haircuts are on most risky trades.
does anyone know if 30% cash is considered low? given haircuts (mullets, femullets & rat-tails) I’d think the redneck salon market wouldn’t be the most risky of trades.
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can post a tremendous amount of the same thing given how low intelligence haircuts are of certain posters.
30% cash is high, come one. With 30% cash, you can retain and tremendous amount of urine in your pants and still afford a new pair of jeans the next day given the fall in commodity prices.
I’m short Marc Faber’s rat tail, long Roubini’s plaster vulvas.
@125 – if more than one person posted this I’d believe it. Seemed like an interesting story but not really hearing secondary confirmation from others.
It is not Cargill/Blackriver. Those fuckers were notoriously risk averse during the bubble, no chance they are rolling the dice here and now.
Strategery Capital?
@139, yeah, can’t really give you more. I have more friends at Citadel, but I haven’t heard from them today. Will let you know if I get confirmation.
-125
@125/142 – thanks. I only have second-derivative friends there (e.g. friends of friends) and all have denied.
-139
Rumors circulating Citadel dumping CME seats…
NO WAY is Citadel dumping CME seats. 144 you win the stupidest comment ever on DB.
Check CME seat transactions on the day.. traded down hundreds of thousands of dollars through the best standing bids.
Rumored to be meeting with debt holders @ 2:30 and potentially following with conference thereafter.
145
Thank you Mr. Griffin…
145
Thank you Mr. Griffin…
145
Thank you Mr. Griffin…
we’re all in, Lan
Q Investments?
– Geoff Raynor
“X to invest and operate business as usual…The firm’s liquidity remains strong…”
How many times and variations of this have we heard all year from blown-up firms?
http://www.weeklyta.blogspot.com