Which midwest hedge fund are Fed officials rumored to be paying a visit to right now, to deal with its impending implosion?
UPDATE, 10:00: Not that we meant Cit necessarily, but a Citadel spokeswoman called DealBreaker to say that the rumors are "Categorically false. Citadel continues to invest and operate business as usual across the globe. The firm's liquidity remains strong with more than 30 percent of investment capital held in cash."
Posted by VOL IS KING , Oct 24, 2008 9:35AM
whitebox
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:37AM
Prudential Capital
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:37AM
Highlander...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:37AM
Citadel, no doubt
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:37AM
Does citadel have an office in the midwest?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:38AM
holy Citadel.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:38AM
obviously citadel
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:38AM
#5 - tell me you're joking. Please go back to Yahoo,or under a rock
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:38AM
It's not Stark.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:38AM
Citadel, no doubt
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:39AM
Citadel is a Chicago fund...
Our floor guys hearing rumors they are blowing out
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:39AM
looks like you were about 10 days early on the -40% rumor.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:39AM
Supposedly the Fed has denied that they are at Citadel
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:40AM
I'm the CEO of a hedgefund, what's Citadel?
Posted by mrpink , Oct 24, 2008 9:40AM
Citadel.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:41AM
Highlander...
Posted by StupidEquityGuy , Oct 24, 2008 9:42AM
Mr P... TY
~SEG
Thoughts about 30 year? Swap fails? hit me up at hedgingrisk @ aim.com
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:42AM
Highlander....
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:43AM
Highlander is in TX, that's not the mid west. Could be FISCO.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:43AM
Citadel is in Chicago so that is the midwest...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:44AM
OMFG Citadel is blowing up. What is the world coming too!
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:44AM
jesus christ you morons obviously it's citadel
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:45AM
Sentinel?
just kidding, Francis.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:45AM
What do you expect?... they're an hour behind... People in the 2nd City are asleep right now...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:46AM
"There can be only one!"
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:46AM
North Dakota Intellectual Capital, LLC
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:46AM
BRK
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:47AM
@13 - where did they deny this? Link?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:48AM
I heard JPM is in Washington trying to get the Fed to backstop Citadel. I believe JPM is their biggest prime broker
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:49AM
Obviously Citadel.
Hopefully false.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:50AM
Why would anyone name their hedge fund after a Toyota?
Posted by Seaman Bodine , Oct 24, 2008 9:50AM
dunno but, i hear clarium went from +50 to -50 in Oct - maybe everything west of NYC is midwest
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:50AM
this is as obvious its citadel as yesterdays quote from "a high insider in the republican party" came from Karl Rove
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:51AM
I doubt it is Citadel although I don't doubt JPM would do some slimy things (the way they acted with Leh, Bear and Amaranth); Stark and BlackRiver seem more likely candidates.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:51AM
I heard that Citadel was winding down their converts book.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:52AM
Citadel. Morgan Stanley is collateral calling them...ALL their collateral. Gimme.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:52AM
Very light trading in SPX options this morning --- seems to me the limit down was the result of a forced liquidation reminiscent of the Soc Gen unwinding. Who would have a position large enough to dictate this kind of movement...
Hmm... I can think of a certain Chicago hedge fund..
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:52AM
Deephaven
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:55AM
Ken Griffen GO BOOM!
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:56AM
citadel done
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:56AM
Varde!
Posted by Tau , Oct 24, 2008 9:57AM
Correction 32 - everything west OR east of NYC can be accurately described as the "midwest"
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:57AM
Sue the T-Rex has the last laugh!
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:57AM
Who are these dumbshits saying Highlander.
How fucking stupid are you if you think Texas is in the midwest.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:58AM
I heard it is in the South, not mid west and it is Highland or Lowland.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 9:59AM
If this is true, this is unreal...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:00AM
@35 There is no bid in converts right now, you can't really unwind.
Posted by VOL IS KING , Oct 24, 2008 10:02AM
Cargill?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:03AM
#46: I wish I could agree with you. But it's not "unreal". It's expected - all these "walk on water" guys, who are all down - of course they are going to get margin calls and redemptions.
I think DB should take a poll on which big HF is next. AQR? Highland? Fortress? I believe there will be a slew of them.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:04AM
Big Swinging Dick LLC
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:05AM
Citadel Citadel Citadel!
Hey Bess. Here's a tip if you want to tell us who the hedge fund is "unofficially": login as Guest and swarm the comments with "Citadel"
ha! that way, they have no way of asking you to take down the post! Eat dirt Ken!
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:05AM
Castle Greyskull - Skeletor has put up some horrible numbers this year!
Posted by Seaman Bodine , Oct 24, 2008 10:05AM
given the fact that most major BDs have desks in Chicago where 90% of the revenue is coming from Citadel, easy to see how this rumour gets out fast
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:06AM
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:06AM
Fed would not bother with anyone but the top 5, so Citadel it is. Holy Shit, I am going to huddle in a fetal position in my bed, hoping I dont wet myself. If they fall, that's it for the hedgies
Posted by prgy , Oct 24, 2008 10:07AM
Hey @ 49 WTF are you talking about? Keep your mindless drivel to yourself. People like you and cluzo are ruining DB.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:07AM
Completely and utterly false.
A guy in the know
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:08AM
Where are the clients' rumors?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:09AM
cluzo, you are popnd scum. Get the hint. You're a bully and ass kisser. 'Bessy'.
Posted by Seaman Bodine , Oct 24, 2008 10:09AM
if the fed is in Chitown now, it's probably to beg Ken G to put up the duckats for his CDS exchange idea, pronto, and to immediate attain liquidity by absorbing all of AIGs book
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:10AM
the fact that they are taking the time to deny this...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:10AM
"Categorically false" - we know the drill from there.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:12AM
BTW 30% of capital in cash is a total misdirection. I run a (small) hedge fund and am 2.5 x leveraged even now, but have 90% of my capital in cash! How? Um, derivatives. Have you heard of them?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:12AM
@56: how is this "drivel"? This situation is not "unreal" as #49 said - it is reality. It is what happens when you have big hedge funds subject to margin calls and panicked investors redeeming.
Now you will hear a ton of denials from Citadel and the Feds, so the market doesn't panic further. But there are other big hedge funds. Remember all those quarterly letters? That big HSBC review? All the -30-50% guys are going to be margin called or redempt-ed out of existence and some of them will be big enough to cause ripples.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:13AM
Citadel is not a hedge fund idiots!! Citadel is a merchant bank...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:13AM
prgy - at it again, GO HOME!!!
You can make mean comments when you write one(1) well thought out meaninful one, just one good comment.
GO HOME!!!
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:14AM
FWIW: just got this email.
guy in Credit told me he just got an e-mail from Citadel CFO, saying the rumor is false, and Citadel will issue a press release about it.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:14AM
LMFAO!
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:15AM
BTW 30% of capital in cash is a total misdirection. I run a (small) hedge fund and am 2.5 x leveraged even now, but have 90% of my capital in cash! How? Um, derivatives. Have you heard of them?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:15AM
Prgy=troll=John Mark Karr?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:16AM
Bess,
PNC BUYS NAT CITY
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:16AM
I used to work for a company that had rumors about it all the time. Comes with the territory when you are better than everyone else.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:17AM
@prgy - How many times do we have to say it: go back to Perez Hilton's board! You're not wanted here. You are a certified loser with you head so far up your ass you can actually see daylight. If you made one intelligent comment over your lifetime it would surprise even you mom.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:18AM
Does that mean PNC is like the UN saving Darfur?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:20AM
could it be bridge finance. they run a bunch of funds
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:21AM
It is udderly false we are structured on cows.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:23AM
Heard the fed is visiting Tim Sykes right now. Very concerned about his impending blow up and how it might roil the markets
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:24AM
honestly, PRGY is the only voice of reason.The rest of you schmucks sound like cookie cutter financial douche- bag analysts. exception to rule SEG. Cluzo fuck you.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:24AM
So...we're now totally screwed since the other shoe has dropped?
Posted by prgy , Oct 24, 2008 10:24AM
Hey @ 73. I contribute more insightful comments on DB than any other person posting here. Who is this Perez Hilton, one of your scorned lovers? Oh, and by the way, take typing lessons.
Posted by Seaman Bodine , Oct 24, 2008 10:28AM
speaking of clarium, it's gayer than peter thiel to be having a board war on DB
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:32AM
prgy - which one of these is "insightful" - http://dealbreaker.com/profile/prgy
NONE
78 - "cookie cutter financial douche- bag analysts" um, yes we are, this where we hang out. You should join Carney on that board for non-cookie cutter financial douche- bag analysts. You might like it more.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:33AM
Given Cit's BD operations and the size of their vol desk, if they're not printing cash in this market they deserve to blow up...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:34AM
Brother in law told me Bear Stearns is in trouble.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:34AM
# 82 what's your point??
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:35AM
We're boned.
Posted by prgy , Oct 24, 2008 10:35AM
@ 82. Which one is not insightful? I'll admit the Green Span Backers is a bit goofy but all the others are right on the money.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:38AM
For real? Bear Stearns is in trouble?! I better sell all my BS.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:40AM
I'm on my iPhone at Adams and Dearborn now. I don't see anything unusual.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:40AM
Citadel has their investor base so locked up their cannot be any massive redemptions.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:41AM
1. Fix
2. It
3. FIX IT
Posted by Riskybusiness , Oct 24, 2008 10:42AM
@72 -
you worked at???
A. Enron
B. Amaranth
C. LTCM
D. Lehman
E. Titanic
Posted by mrpink , Oct 24, 2008 10:45AM
@92:
I work at E.
LOL
So, who wants to join me in the galley for a couple cocktails? The band is still playing out on the deck, and the bartender went running away saying something about the ship is sinking! Free booze!
-mrp
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:46AM
Hey 92.....No, asshole. Aquila.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:46AM
Mahnahmahnah!
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:46AM
@83 do you know anything about volatility trading? Most vol traders "sell the skew" the sell OOM Puts because that's where the juice is. It's a great business until the market crashes and that vol catches up with you. Just ask Doug Niederlander back in 1987 or D.E. Show/UBS back in 1997. If you think vol is rich you may be in for one of Monty Burn's "nasty surprises"
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:49AM
The market will never crash so long as CNBC keeps feeding dumb money into the meat grinder.
Posted by Phobos , Oct 24, 2008 10:52AM
All this in-fighting. Add some bourbon and it's a regular family fucking reunion.
I think we should have this out like respectable men and women: Central Park, bathing suits, oil, & wrestling. Greek Style.
Posted by Riskybusiness , Oct 24, 2008 10:52AM
@72 -
you worked at???
A. Enron
B. Amaranth
C. LTCM
D. Lehman
E. Titanic
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:53AM
@98 Hell yea!
I'll bring my hard on.
SPODE
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:55AM
It is Alyeska
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:57AM
sad:
http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/10/citadel-says-fed-raid-rumors-are-categorically-false-
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:57AM
right on, @96. There is a vol risk premium in the market. You earn that premium in good times. You pony up for it in bad times.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 10:58AM
right on, @96. There is a vol risk premium in the market. You earn that premium in good times. You pony up for it in bad times.
Posted by Riskybusiness , Oct 24, 2008 10:58AM
@94 - Didn't you company get acquired for two lightbulbs and half a kilowatt? have fun in Kansas City and leave finance to the BSDs in NYC.
Posted by Riskybusiness , Oct 24, 2008 10:58AM
@94 - Didn't your company get acquired for two lightbulbs? Have fun in Kansas City and leave finance to the BSDs in NYC.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:01AM
hmmm carney didnt have the original rumor and then 15 mins after the update on this goes up he reprints this post without attribution to db.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:02AM
@103 and of course there's all that sweet juice in the option portion of the convertible bond unless...oopsie...gotta go now. Margin calls and such...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:03AM
@108 my point was it looks like someone's shamelessly ripping off db.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:05AM
Morons, listen up. Highland is in Texas, not Highlander. Your ignorance is insane, obviously a bunch of excel users who have n o concepts of the market or its players.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:08AM
Just saw KG taking car bombs at Elephant & Castle....capitulation.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:11AM
at 100 that's gay.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:12AM
Yo #96...
Who is "Niederlander?" Did he used to work with John Mericlimate back at Shaloman Brothers?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:12AM
I just saw KG eating a triple at the Billy Goat for breakfast. They call that the widow maker.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:17AM
Ken Griffin just told his investors, "Skeet Skeet Skeet"
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:20AM
I might have the spelling wrong. Doug Nederlander[sic] came from old NYC money (they owned a bunch of property including some Broadway theatres) and opened his own hedge fund selling puts via the old O'Connor Captial Markets' (another Chicago outfit) style: calculate the volatility skew and sell "irrationally" priced options, usually OOM puts. Made good money until the crash of '87 which blew him up. He was the first poster child for what the "risk" in "risk management" stands for.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:26AM
Are you talking about Victor Niederhoffer you ignorant dope?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:26AM
@ 96 and 103
Citadel doesn't track "PhD ROE", play a role in slmost every distressed HF bailout, try to acquire clearinghouses and isn't able to pass through all of their operating expenses to investors so they can sell puts/skew. Given their informational advantages coming into this situation, if they came in short vol/skew/correlation then, once again, they deserve what's coming to them... We're not talking about Wolverine (no offense to any employees) here...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:29AM
http://www.finalternatives.com/node/5867
http://www.finalternatives.com/node/5863
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:30AM
Midwest?
You're all wrong.
It's Wayne Enterprises. look it up people. no one is immune.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:31AM
anyone wanna buy 20 yards of converts? how bout 30?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:33AM
118 here,
"isn't able to pass through all of their operating expenses to investors "
=
"pass through all of their operating expenses to investors "
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:37AM
@110, thank you.
Highland already blew up, they laid off tons of good people on Wednesday and shut down two funds.
...And I highly doubt it's Cargill.
Just as an aside, I hear that HBK is in pretty murky waters as well (not midwest though).
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 11:38AM
@118 I thought those correlation trades were dead long ago. Although mwybe they have some vol/var swaps on their books. You never know.
And wasn't it just a few years ago that Amaranth was finding unusual opportunities in OOM Nat Gas options?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 12:02PM
Just heard from a friend at Citadel. He's flipping out--apparently the feds are pretty much swarming the place.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 12:08PM
Not true - Ken just had his favorite Custard trucked in from Wisconsin to share with the employees
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 12:48PM
reliable sources tell me citadel is liquidating their equity book to bet the whole firm on shorting cds, if it widens anymore they are toast
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 12:50PM
@110
We're quants then?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 12:53PM
=nuveen)
Posted by Suits , Oct 24, 2008 1:07PM
Anyone have Citadel Associate numbers?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:09PM
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can retain a tremendous amount of risk given how low haircuts are on most risky trades.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:09PM
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can retain a tremendous amount of risk given how low haircuts are on most risky trades.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:09PM
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can retain a tremendous amount of risk given how low haircuts are on most risky trades.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:10PM
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can retain a tremendous amount of risk given how low haircuts are on most risky trades.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:15PM
does anyone know if 30% cash is considered low? given haircuts (mullets, femullets & rat-tails) I'd think the redneck salon market wouldn't be the most risky of trades.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:18PM
30% cash is low, come on. With 30% cash, you can post a tremendous amount of the same thing given how low intelligence haircuts are of certain posters.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:24PM
30% cash is high, come one. With 30% cash, you can retain and tremendous amount of urine in your pants and still afford a new pair of jeans the next day given the fall in commodity prices.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:27PM
I'm short Marc Faber's rat tail, long Roubini's plaster vulvas.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:32PM
@125 - if more than one person posted this I'd believe it. Seemed like an interesting story but not really hearing secondary confirmation from others.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:48PM
It is not Cargill/Blackriver. Those fuckers were notoriously risk averse during the bubble, no chance they are rolling the dice here and now.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:54PM
Strategery Capital?
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 1:59PM
@139, yeah, can't really give you more. I have more friends at Citadel, but I haven't heard from them today. Will let you know if I get confirmation.
-125
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 2:13PM
@125/142 - thanks. I only have second-derivative friends there (e.g. friends of friends) and all have denied.
-139
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 2:17PM
Rumors circulating Citadel dumping CME seats...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 3:17PM
NO WAY is Citadel dumping CME seats. 144 you win the stupidest comment ever on DB.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 3:26PM
Check CME seat transactions on the day.. traded down hundreds of thousands of dollars through the best standing bids.
Rumored to be meeting with debt holders @ 2:30 and potentially following with conference thereafter.
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 3:28PM
145
Thank you Mr. Griffin...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 3:30PM
145
Thank you Mr. Griffin...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 3:32PM
145
Thank you Mr. Griffin...
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 4:05PM
we're all in, Lan
Posted by guest , Oct 24, 2008 4:15PM
Q Investments?
-- Geoff Raynor
Posted by guest , Oct 25, 2008 4:25PM
"X to invest and operate business as usual...The firm's liquidity remains strong..."
How many times and variations of this have we heard all year from blown-up firms?
http://www.weeklyta.blogspot.com