Everyone's doing better than Dick Fuld and his former employees right now. That much should be obvious. Junkies, John Devaney, Gary Busey, Team Tosca. The lawyers are are in a significantly better place. Bloomberg reports that Weill Gotshal & Manges will be charging Lehman Brothers Holdings up to $950 an hour to handle its bankruptcy, while troubled company consulting firm Alvarez & Marsal will be paid $850 per hour to serve as Lehman's chief restructuring officer. Skadden will take home nearly $1000 per hour to deal with Dick Fuld's armed robbery charges-- something about going apoplectic over not having enough cash for a Cosi turkey wrap and solving the problem by demanding the cashier give him all the money in the register-- and Paul Weiss, which specializes in prostitution-related criminal defense, will pocket a whopping $1500/hour attempting to get Fuld off for soliciting businessmen on the corner of 55th and Park.
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Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:13PM
hmmm. speaking of which, is now the best time or the worst time to go to grad skewl?
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:14PM
What is up with BX today?
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:15PM
Worst time. Wait a year, everyone is applying this year.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:15PM
Alvarez ain't a law firm - get with it!
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:19PM
DOn't forget about PwC is handling the UK LEH bk as administrators...figure they'll pull in 7 maybe 8 figures for that.
Shiiiit.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:21PM
absolute worst time.
like @3 said everyone is applying because of dimmer job prospects. Student loans are difficult to get except at the top schools. There is no guarantee that this shitstorm will have passed by the time you graduate in 1 or 2.5 years.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:22PM
@4...yeah you are right but you get the point BL was makin'
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:26PM
Does anyone here ever watch Cold Case? If a movie about Lehman was ever made, I think that Hodges (not sure if that's the right name) should play Dick Fuld. Looks just like the guy.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:30PM
I'd rather get a Tabasco colonic than work with a bunch of lawyers.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:34PM
lawyers are the lower than scum. they make wall street crooks look like St. Anthony.
my kid will never go to law school because from there, it's a 1-way ticket to the fiery pits of hell.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:35PM
I got laid off from a hedge fund. I'm taking the LSAT in december. Who gives a fuck if everyone is applying. Financiers are the most brilliant people on earth, we'll take over law school now that we don't have jobs.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:38PM
PENN LAW SCHOOL IS RANKED #7 ACCORDING TO US NEWS & WORLD REPORT. IF ONE IS QUALIFIED, ONE CAN ALSO GET A JOINT JD/MBA AS WELL.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:40PM
@ #11
Yes, all of you financiers are the "most brilliant people on earth". How much did a those people who live in fly over country and can't afford to pay their bills take you for? Absolutely fucking brilliant is right.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:42PM
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
Bill Shakespeare
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:43PM
The problem with going to law school is that one usually has to practice law afterwards. I'd rather dig ditches in Siberia.
Posted by Henry Ryecroft , Oct 09, 2008 2:46PM
Yeah, from what I've heard doc reviewing sounds like real fun. Shut up and code bitch.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:46PM
#11 I hope you're kidding. that comment is a joke whether you meant it or not
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:46PM
@12 I AM A HEDGE FUND MANAGER, WHAT ARE CAPS?
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:49PM
Read it people...
http://www.screenjunkies.com/movienews/11-life-lessons-big-lebowski
http://www.screenjunkies.com/general/9-life-lessons-every-guy-can-learn-goodfellas
Posted by prgy , Oct 09, 2008 2:49PM
@12. Like you went there?
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:50PM
If you want a job where you bill in increments of time and don't want to lie to your parents and friends about what you do out of embarrassment, become a stripper not a lawyer. You'll be providing a service that society actually needs and values and you can avoid the costs of 3 years of law school.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:50PM
Maybe you(s guys) should get a job at ChaCha.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:51PM
Working for a big law firm is decent, steady money, and has better job security than in business. But the job itself is miserable -- the work is pointless and monotonous, human interaction is often sparse, and you're treated like sh!t. But it's a tradeoff some are willing to make. Unless you're dumb/lazy, making counsel/non-equity partner isn't as hard as people make it out to be. The problem is most people would rather kill themselves than stick around and make partner.
A word of warning, though -- the hay-day of law is now. The time will come when people say enough is enough and the laws are changed to permit non-lawyers to do legal work, and lawyers and non-lawyers to share profits. Then we'll all look back and tell stories about how back in our day, lawyers were rich.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:53PM
9-Do you take Jalepeno, Habenero or Traditional?
15-Hope your ass doesn't get cold.
Sounds like finance wussies are too soft to put up with the mean lawyers. Awwwww!
Posted by Henry Ryecroft , Oct 09, 2008 2:56PM
Trading coffee, slaves and a bit of gun running. Worked for Rimbaud. I mean, except for the whole gangrenous limb thing at the end.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:56PM
Hey! You forgot! Carney was a lawyer and look where he end up as.
Seems like he couldn't stand the law job.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:57PM
23 Aren't there times however when it becomes difficult to get a job in a big law firm? In fact I believe I read lately that the trickle down effect is such that people in the middle of their class from decent but not top schools (Fordham, Brooklyn, BU) are currently having big problems finding anything beyond glorified paralegal jobs.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:58PM
@26- or he got fired.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 2:59PM
23=Intern in copy dept. whose cousin went to law school for a year
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:00PM
27, those times are now. The hiring market for 2009 summer associates - who become 2010 associates, is awful.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:00PM
Lawyers are the leaders of the free world
"I did not have sex with that woman, miss lewinsky"
Attorney Bill Clinton.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:00PM
Chippendales just called. They are opening a "Northern Route" tour this winter: Eastern Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Western Minnesota. Applicants must have no tats, no razor burn, flannel banana hammocks (plaid would be nice), 2% body fat and no southern drawl. No Lawrence Welk look-a-lokes in North Dakota allowed (state law).
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:05PM
Ok, kids. Why is the practice of law any more mind-numbing that sitting, looking through 10-Ks, making PIBs and Comps, and entering numbers on a spreadsheet? At least law gives high-level views of deals sometimes (although, admittedly, that depends on practice group. I'm a JD/MBA, have been a banker and a lawyer, and they're both about as exciting as watching paint dry 90% of the time, punctuated by 10% of occasionally interesting work.
And god forbid if you have a quant job (that's how I started in the world) and spend your whole life staring at prepayment rates and default correlations. (Oh, wait, those were the guys who were so damned brilliant).
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:06PM
32 Or just walk over to Tool Box, 92/Second, and tell them you now have a lot of time on your hands and are interested in dancing on the bar in a jockstrap. GAnalYst
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:06PM
@23: Lawyers are not going to give up the barriers to entry, and they're the ones writing the laws. Here's an example: The first costs paid from LEH's BK estate go to lawyers. Wonder why....
@27: This is true. Worst legal job market since 2001-02. People at the top 10 law schools are doing okay, but if you're below the top 25% of any lower-ranked school, you are in bad shape.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:06PM
Want to make 5 million dollars a year??
Become a self employed PERSONAL INJURY attorney.
Posted by Henry Ryecroft , Oct 09, 2008 3:06PM
"... high-paying law firms recruit almost exclusively at institutions ranked in the top 15 or so. Overall, the median salary for new lawyers is $62,000. For public interest law jobs, new lawyers can expect about $40,000"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2008-06-17-law-schools_N.htm
Money spent going to a TTT = Money down the shitter
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:08PM
Ok, kids. Why is the practice of law any more mind-numbing that sitting, looking through 10-Ks, making PIBs and Comps, and entering numbers on a spreadsheet? At least law gives high-level views of deals sometimes (although, admittedly, that depends on practice group. I'm a JD/MBA, have been a banker and a lawyer, and they're both about as exciting as watching paint dry 90% of the time, punctuated by 10% of occasionally interesting work.
And god forbid if you have a quant job (that's how I started in the world) and spend your whole life staring at prepayment rates and default correlations. (Oh, wait, those were the guys who were so damned brilliant).
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:12PM
CNBC is saying to buy muni bonds. Now I know they are issued by municipalities but if you have muni bonds from the state of CA and CA is now saying it is in real trouble, if your bond is due, do they pay it? Is it insured? How does that work?
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:20PM
#39 yeah its insured, by mbia!
Posted by diablo , Oct 09, 2008 3:20PM
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
Harvard BS MBA - G. W. Bush
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:23PM
Do not go to law school.
- Current Attorney
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:24PM
#40 the blind leading the blind
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:27PM
At this point, the cost of higher education, for the jobs that will be out there, will not be cost effective. So people will just stop going. Unless of course they want to be realistic about their "tuition and fees" and grants in aid.
Posted by legal eagle , Oct 09, 2008 3:31PM
@42: I generally give the same advice to people considering being a lawyer. It's not a terribly exciting profession and I don't think it's quite as stable as everyone things. For us corporate attorneys, I think things could get very bad in the next year. But as far as intelligence goes, bankers are not more intelligent than lawyers. The average undergrad GPA of a Harvard MBA student is about the same as the average undergrad GPA of a student at approximately the top 30 law school. Lawyers are quite intelligent, which is why so many of them are impossible to spend time with--there is more social awkwardness in this profession than in probably any (including engineering, at least they're like "cool nerdy").
Anyway, this market frightens me . . .
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:32PM
The days of the big time millionaire investment banker are over.
NOW GET TO BACK TO CRUNCHING NUMBERS IN EXCEL AND MAKING PITCHBOOKS 90 HOURS A WEEK FOR MINIMUM WAGE BEFORE YOUR JAPANESE AND CHINESE OVERLORDS HIT YOU WITH THAT WHIP AGAIN WHITE BOY.
169% owned!
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:37PM
45 Or it may just be that Harvard MBA students are not that intelligent. As we've seen reported here from time to time.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:37PM
@41 gwb has bachelors from yale not harvard
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:39PM
What about becoming a Financial Adviser?
The profession is neither difficult nor is it stressful. You will surely make good money and you get to work at your own pace. The biggest hurdle to succeeding is building a client base, and correct me if I'm wrong, but your rolodexes are already filled with names of people who have money and may need financial advice.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:41PM
49 Or people that had money last month.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:46PM
@49
Sure become a broker right now, Bear Stearns and Lehman brothers are sponsoring people for series 7 licenses by the herd!
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:48PM
I'm not sure most of you in finance could hack it in law school. I also have a JD and an MBA. Most of the unfortunate MBA students that tried to take law school classes were completely bi!chslapped (even by the relatively fluffy courses). On the other hand, law students would take MBA classes for the easy A and 60 min intellectual nap.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:49PM
@49
Not difficult or stressful? Are you fucking retarded?
-Financial adviser
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:52PM
@49
Retail sucks. The two biggest retail shops (Wachovia and ML) are having issues right now, and building a "book" isn't exactly easy. You spend 6 hours a day cold calling, and working your network. It's a shitty thing to call your friends, and your parent's friends and have to "sell" them on the idea that while you're in your 20's/30's, YOU know what’s best for their portfolios. This can be hampered by the fact that they actually know you, and remember your stupidity as a teenager/in college and will therefore never take you seriously. Plus, it's always bad to mix money and personal relationships.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 3:55PM
@50
Many will have money soon enough.
@51
That's not where I would start. Look for a boutique or maybe GS's Ayco.
Posted by diablo , Oct 09, 2008 3:58PM
@48
Let me slow down here:
Harvard,
(the lesser high ed school in Cambridge, MA)
BS,
Business School
MBA,
Masters of Bullcrap Assimilation
---
Posted by beentheredonethat , Oct 09, 2008 4:02PM
It is not s much as the blind leading the blind, but more like the bland leading the bland.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:02PM
when this country has a revolution the first heads to roll will be lawyers. then wall street ceos, then politicians.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:04PM
@53 With such an attitude and temperament, it's no wonder you're finding it difficult.
@54 You're thinking of it as a stockbroker, don't think of it as a stockbroker. You're doing much more than allocating individual's IRAs. Truth is most individuals are NOT getting financial advice on matters such as insurance, estate planning, etc. At this point in most of your carriers, you shouldn't be looking at an ML/Wachovia/UBS program. Find a boutique shop that will value you for your experience in finance and your access to individuals with the need for financial advice.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:05PM
55 1) Why will they have money soon enough? 2) Re GS Ayco: No asset gathering required, but pay is therefore commensurate, ie not that good. Trying to change their business model, in order to gather more assets. In which case it will become like any other place.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:06PM
@58
Revolution?? Into what??? communism??
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:10PM
59 Lets make this quick: what makes you think that there are enough people out there with money and a need for financial advice at a price. The reality is that the financial planning part is easy, the asset gathering is impossible. A secondary problem is that such advice runs around 150 bp per annum for low six figure accounts. A pound of flesh that's tough to exact in today's low return environment.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:11PM
@59
This is @54. I worked at one of the majors. I did estate planning. I did all that shit you're talking about. Don't pretend to know where I'm at in my career. You sound like an RIA fee based punk that sues because the wirehouses wanted to instigate fee based brokerage business. Go home.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:12PM
62 here... sorry i meant to say 150 bp for low SEVEN figure accounts
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:12PM
62 here... sorry i meant to say 150 bp for low SEVEN figure accounts
Posted by peWonderWoman , Oct 09, 2008 4:19PM
Maybe not...
http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008/10/118yearold_heller_ehrman_disso.php
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:20PM
There is more to Financial Advising than simply gathering assets, and charging your client's 150 bps for "managing" those assets.
@54/63...why are you so angry?
Posted by peWonderWoman , Oct 09, 2008 4:24PM
Maybe not...
http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008/10/118yearold_heller_ehrman_disso.php
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:25PM
67 my point is that the challenge is gathering the assets. Once they're in house, its easy. You're doing nothing special, nothing that your competitors can't do in just as competent a fashion. Its totally formulaic. So its a great gig, but the trick is making it work - by gathering assets.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:30PM
69 Here. Bet youre gonna tell me now that I just dont understand, that good planners (like you, for instance) are brilliant and totally add value. Save that spiel for when you're out gathering assets. I know it to be false but you need to believe it and deliver it with great confidence and conviction, otherwise you wouldnt be able to, you guessed it, GATHER ASSETS. Which is what its all about, in the first place.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:31PM
@62/69
Could not agree more, gathering those assets is incredibly difficult. My thought was that the rolodexes many of these finance professionals have built over the years, would give them a nice head start on that gathering. Keep in mind though, there are other revenue-generating services that can be provided outside of charging 150 bps for managing the assets.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:38PM
@67 -- it's @63.
Gathering assets is all that matters in the FA world. If you've been led to believe otherwise you're mistaken. Rate of decay/attrition/inflation/market movement all add up to one maxim: if you're not growing you're shrinking. And my anger stems from the fact that it's condescending as hell to try to give me or anyone else advice as to which shops we should look at given our likely career positioning. And in re: Insurance and Estate Planning, I've seen more little ole' ladies dicked out of their lives savings by using Variable Life Insurance products sold in the name of Estate Planning than I care to discuss. Between that an annuities (especially indexed annuities), a lot of "Financial Advisors" are essentially running a confidence game on these people.
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:43PM
this is @63.
What services? selling VULs? Annuities? Indexed Annuities? Are you an insurance person?
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 4:57PM
@72&73...
Not an insurance salesperson. But yes, providing estate planning guidance is one of those services, as well as other forms of tax advice, cash management services, family office planning, etc. Check out some of the high end boutique financial planners. You'll be surprised by the services outside of investment advising that they offer. The environment is much different from your wirehouse.
Also, we're commenting on a post about other options that may be worth pursuing to individuals in the finance field. How is it condescending if I offer another idea besides going back to school or working at a wirehouse?
Posted by guest , Oct 09, 2008 5:03PM
RIA discussions at dealbreaker? Zzzzzz
Posted by guest , Oct 10, 2008 4:06AM
Everybody on here makes fun of the morons who bought houses they couldn't afford but suddenly it's kosher for you to borrow $150,000 to go to law school? Retards.
FYI: Most lawyers make shit for $$.