In an effort to cut costs, Goldman Sachs has taken an axe to the amount of money employees can expense for after hours dinners at the office. Up until several days ago, it was $25; now, its $20, which is clearly downright insulting, and grounds for a walk out of all analysts 'til conditions improve.
Comments
4
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:22AM
Guaranteed this 5 spot will come out of the delivery boy’s hide.
5
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:26AM
Hopefully this will all lead to analysts/associates working normal 50-60 hour weeks, a 10%-20% bonus, and no food account. Oh and a removal of that douche-bag ego we all adore.
Seriously, between CEO compensation and Wall St bonuses - no wonder our economy is in the potty.
7
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:31AM
dont those expenses just get passed on to the clients? more importantly, will the savings?
8
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:31AM
5 is right. This is just the first step. Lower profits means lower bonuses means lower motivated people. The 25 year run on credit that fueled the investment banks is over.
9
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:32AM
4 Nah... Part of the fun is tripping downstirs, pickin up the bag and giving that dely man that arent I among the most important people in NY, nobly toiling away late for the good of my firm and humanity. The ego trip would be totally ruined if you stiffed him the tip.
10
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:34AM
They're trying to keep their costs in line with every other commercial bank.
11
Posted by GinNTonic, Oct 15, 2008 11:34AM
7, you're assuming there are clients that the bankers can bill for the dinner expenses
12
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:35AM
8 Its all relative. If bonuses werent so high, apartments would cost less. Also, do you really think people were less motivated 15 years ago, when bonuses were much lower.
14
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:37AM
This is a good article on pawnshops. They are very profitable and seem to offer customers a better deal than the predatory pay day loans.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27121805y
18
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:44AM
Hearing that they're changing the dress code at Goldman to brown suits only.
19
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:44AM
15 10 + 15 = 25; 25 year olds dont get bonuses that are big enough to motivate. They should be motivated instead by the promise of whats to come. Like learning things that will make them more valuable, working for a firm where the growth prospects are good.
20
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:47AM
17 You better picket and form a union too. Otherwise, they'll just fill the ranks with the many behind you that are probably just as talented. Esp in this environment, where its not exactly difficult to find analysts.
21
Posted by blndebnker, Oct 15, 2008 11:47AM
@19 - I would disagree. The bonuses might not be of the staggering kind but I can tell you I sure as hell was motivated by my bonus last year.
22
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:47AM
Quick question....Is Goldman going to add Bank Teller to their rotation for new analysts?
24
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:54AM
blnde Really? Think about it. You should be learning, developing, given opportunities. At your level its not likely that the incremental bonus would be large enough to overshadow those things, which will be important to your long term prospects. If your happy (motivated) they're probably falling into place as well.
25
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:55AM
I'm a first year analyst and was wondering what bonuses are going to be like this year...they can't drop too badly can they?
26
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:58AM
HAHAHA! You poor bastards.
For all the fun that you make of consultants, even we can expense way more than you poor schmucks.
27
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:58AM
#25...funny..just like home prices can never drop too badly
28
Posted by girl, Oct 15, 2008 11:59AM
@ 24
I know very few people that are happy to be working at our age. Whether we're assistants at fashion houses making 25 K a year or having our souls destroyed in the corporate world- the only certainty is that we're all still dreaming of being back in Kolledge.
"Development", "opportunities", that's shit you don't even experience until you're too fucking jaded to enjoy it.
29
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:00PM
@22 - it will replace sales and trading as the #1 pick for each analyst class
30
Posted by blndebnker, Oct 15, 2008 12:02PM
@24 - I absolutely agree with you that after a only a few years out of school, it's definitely a developmental time in my career. That being said, even what a seasoned vet would call a small bonus, is extremely motivating for several reasons. For one, it was presented as my credit for working so hard and doing such a great job last year. That motivated me to work just as hard if not harder this year, not only perform well but expand my knowledge base and grow. Secondly, the money I received was what I considered a lot. It's all relative. You have to think about how much money would seem like a good chunk of change to a 25 yr old. While being happy and fulfilled in my job would be the ultimate motivator, I am not going to pretend that the money I make and the bonus I (used to) look forward to doesn't power me through those rough spots.
31
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:04PM
The bonus isn't significant compared to what your MD makes, but it's still significant for what a 25 year old in a standard corporate job is usually pulling in for a bonus (10-20%). That relative level of reward (not to mention watching your bosses pull it in) is a big motivator.
What happens when that motivator is removed? Then you have college kids start to drift back to Technology jobs (Where the pay has always been better for the first three years) or the next "lifestyle" career path.
32
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:06PM
@30
Bob Slydell: Would you bear with me for just a second, please?
Peter Gibbons: OK.
Bob Slydell: What if - and believe me this is a hypothetical - but what if you were offered some kind of a stock option equity sharing program. Would that do anything for you?
Peter Gibbons: I don't know, I guess. Listen, I'm gonna go. It's been really nice talking to both of you guys.
Bob Slydell: Absolutely, the pleasure's all on this side of the table, trust me.
Peter Gibbons: Good luck with your layoffs, all right? I hope your firings go really well.
Bob Porter: Excellent.
Bob Slydell: Great... Wow.
33
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:18PM
Look on the bright side ladies.
Soon you will be able to use some "redistributed" wealth to develop your skills when you are back home with mom and dad.
No more corporate soul crushing. oh the horror. real life, who knew it sucked?
34
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:25PM
I can't see smart and driven kids (who know what the options are) driven to work to 2am for a 10-20% bonus at the end of year....unless the rest of the 'good' jobs (hedge, PE, consulting) take notice and offer smaller pay packs as well.
I don't believe that associates / VPS (the ones who beat the crap out of...I mean managed analysts) will change their behavior as everyone is fearing for their jobs...
A downward cycle eh
35
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:30PM
34 What you're failing to take into account is the fact that if there's no business, there are no 2 am evenings.
36
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:37PM
"Technology jobs (Where the pay has always been better for the first three years)"
No, just....no.
38
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:37PM
Oh boo hoo. Join the rest of the world where most companies have per diem caps on meals on the house (whether traveling or working late). It's food, people, not an entitlement or welfare program (and yes, I'm in the industry).
39
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:38PM
@32 That Peter is a straight shooter with upper management written all over him
40
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:42PM
I count the days until the GS whiners are measured for their bank teller uniforms and at this point, they will probably be some line akin to JLo for Kohl's ... not Prada.
42
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 12:58PM
A lot of this late night nonsense is nothing more than institutional hazing by the associates and MD's that came before you and those that came before them.
*Someone* is actually footing the bill for all the outrageous expenses (client entertainment, late night dinners that have become banquets of entitlement, and other high living)? In many cases, this has grown far beyond a "cost of doing business".
People would think twice about what they spend on meals, entertainment, etc. if it were coming out of THEIR OWN business or pocket ... this culture of entitlement has only contributed to the mess we are in.
I bet half the BSDs (Big Swinging Dicks) would not have the jobs they have if anyone peeked under the sheets at their credit scores and/or ability to manage their personal expenses outside of work -- buying cars, homes, and what have you on loans and credit that many of them could ill-afford based on their personal liquidity -- salaries notwithstanding. It is disgraceful that many of these same people have been allowed to mismanage businesses (and RISK) in the same way.
43
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 1:01PM
@30 -- you are clueless. You took a job with high upside that in actuality is disproportionate to the skills you bring to the table. Most analysts come to the programs with little to none work experience wanting to "live the lifestyle".
Tell us what "value added" you are actually providing?
44
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 1:01PM
Yes I do, 41. Explain yourself man, you're saying the pay in technology is higher than banking in the first 3 years. That's just a phallusy.
45
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 1:10PM
I guess this means those GS boys will just have to buy $20. worth of Crystal Meth from the mailroom boys and just skip the lunch.......it's only temporary.
46
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 1:11PM
@ All the people talking about analyst vs MD bonuses being insignificant ..remember these analysts are working 80 hour weeks which doesnt leave them any time to spend the money theyre earning. So that effectively magnifies the amount of money they are making
49
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 1:16PM
@46 Agreed. That is why I don't understand all the belly aching.
50
Posted by blndebnker, Oct 15, 2008 1:22PM
@43 - Interesting how you call me clueless. You sound like you might just be hating but I digress. I worked my way up to my current role by busting my ass and consistently doing great work. I'm not an analyst; I've been an associate for over a year now, thanks. While I do better than many of my friends in other fields, I don't pretend to be rolling in it nor do I expect to "live the lifestyle." As far as what skills I bring to the table, and what "value-added" contributions I've made, I would say you'd have to ask my management that's ranked me at the top of my group since I got here.
51
Posted by Investorcluzo, Oct 15, 2008 1:25PM
quick question for the group. look around you. how many grey haired md's are sitting around thinking up ideas to pitch to some mediocre "client" in the midwest with hopes of getting the next "deal"? how appealing is that? yes, there are a handful of really "successful" bankers, but that's the exception - not the rule. banking is a stepping stone that offers instant cred (and higher pay than the avg joe) – just look at neel kashkari. a person I know who went to wharton with him said the reason he’s in govt is b/c he wasn’t going to make it a banker at gs. that said, he never would have gotten the position had it not been for the banking contacts – can’t get that working at some engineering firm. this is by no means an end, but it is a faster mean(s)? to an end (think about it).
@46 - yes, you get lots of money with no time to spend it. so when you spend it, you tend to do it, as some may pejoratively call, “lavishly”. then again, I know a few bankers that think coaching their kids little league team is a “luxury” they can’t afford. there are pluses and minuses, you just have to choose what’s important to you.
52
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 1:27PM
no you don't. Developer will easily out earn analysts. Stop fooling yourself.
53
Posted by MarshallStack, Oct 15, 2008 1:32PM
Leave the jacket over the chair in front of the desk.
Leave the lights on.
Leave the computer on - disable the screen saver.
Go out drinking.
In my day (he-he-he, grandpa) as an extra touch - you could even leave a cigarette burning in the ash tray on your way over to Jeremy's Ale House.
54
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 2:05PM
We filled one guy's office with boxes he was there so seldom. We took another guy's door off because it was shut so often and he was not there.
56
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 3:13PM
Yea, but this time we're all taking a bite out of this huge shit sandwich. Fuck you Goldman and your $20 lunches. Go liquid and do your lunches at Jeremy's - $3. a pint, and you assholes can leave the rest as tips for the bartenders who probably won't even have jobs in a few months. Fuck 'all y'all.
57
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 3:19PM
@46 Agreed. That is why I don't understand all the belly aching.
58
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 3:46PM
Ultimate Karma would be these GS assholes living in vans down by the river soon. Then Jeremey's Bartenders can piss on said assholes on their way home. Blankfein included in the piss-o-rama dousing.
59
Posted by MarshallStack, Oct 15, 2008 3:56PM
So I guess that Jeremy's is still there.
Does it still smell like rotting fish?
60
Posted by Investorcluzo, Oct 15, 2008 4:02PM
@marsh - let me guess, late 80's early 90's analyst? not sure if jeremy's is still there (I've worked in mid-town ever since b-school)...what about the place (name escapes me) where they cut your tie/bra off and let it hang from the ceiling. they served beer all day/night long. you could go in at 8 am and see the fisherman bellied up to the bar...
62
Posted by Investorcluzo, Oct 15, 2008 4:11PM
@61 - no, down by the fulton street fish market (before it burned down)
63
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 4:18PM
In today's local paper, I read, "Some analysts are worried that the govt intervention plan could force bankers to leave Wall St for 'unencumbered' businesses like HFs or PE shops, leaving traditional IBs at a disadvantage".
Maybe all you complainers can just go on over to those "unencumbered" places and find the extra goodies you so crave. Better hurry, though. I hear that Uncle Sam doesn't want those HFs & PEs to feel neglected and left out of the "encumbered" mix. I believe he has some plans for them too.
The Guy from Delaware
p.s. Next time Bess puts up a "LayOffs Watch", I'll post a piece I just wrote about job opportunities here in Delaware. They might interest some of you.
64
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 4:50PM
As a software developer that works on Wall Street, I will say that my buddies that left to work for Microsoft in Redmond, WA make $85K a year, a lot more than a lot of analysts will make as salary. Obviously, cost of living is there is cheap, $1k for a one-bedroom. But the analysts (might) get their $80K bonuses, which makes salary comparisons a little pointless...
65
Posted by Goldman Sachs Neophyte, Oct 15, 2008 5:59PM
To all of you talking bad about Goldman: screw you. You are just mad you do not work at Goldman. Also, I don't care if the analysts at my firm suffer some. Everyone knows Prop Trading is where it's at, at Goldman Sachs.
- that guy from Goldman Sachs.
66
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 6:37PM
GSNeophyte@#65...
"Prop Trading". What is that? Please humor me. Thanks.
The Guy from Delaware
67
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 8:55PM
Mad props to Goldman Sachs Neophyte, he know where da money at...
68
Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:56PM
@65 --- "mad b/c we don't work at GS?" Hardly, son. Are you on crack? I hear fittings for your bank teller uniforms are next week. Yes ... there is a god!
69
Posted by guest, Oct 16, 2008 10:22AM
Technology has NEVER paid more than banking. That 85K you speak of not for entry level hires, it's for employees that have a few years under their belt. Find out what a 3rd year analyst or any associate makes and then do the math. Entry level hires at Microsoft make about 50-55K, which is lower than a 1st year analyst.
That's why every IT guy with even half a brain, after his MBA, tries to leverage his "experience" into a tech ibanking job.
Now the shut the f*ck up and send over resume, I won't hold your ignorance against you.
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Posted by guest, Oct 15, 2008 11:18AM
first!