Charlie Gasparino's "sources on Capitol Hill" tell him the government is going to infuse Citi with 10 to 20 billion dollars. CG adds, "like we've said 100 times before tonight, the situation is fluid." Obviously this is a shock to those of you who've been keeping track at home, and have only taken 40 shots (1/fluid mention) so far.
Update: Your guess re: what's going to happen is as good as CNBC's, which adds that "all other actions: not off the table."
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:41PM
First most fluid.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:42PM
Can someone tell my why the hell there are two of these:
www.citi.com
www.citibank.com
I mean, the services on both are EXACTLY the same, and both are the consumer banking sites, but they're completely different sites. I understand having a separate citigroup.com for the investment banks, but damn, this is retarded. Maybe that's why they're in such shitty shape, it would've surprise me if they've been running duplicate businesses the whole time.
KEGGY
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 9:44PM
@ SPODE
You think that's bad? Its only the beginning, GM-esque mismanagement abounds, and thats all I can say for now
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:45PM
Great, "$10-$20 billion" will take care of the problem for about 5 hours, squeeze some shorts, then we'll be in the same position we are now. These people are retarded, SELL THE DAMN SMITH BARNEY DIVISION. They're going to be just as stubborn as Lehman was when they refused to sell ALL (not "a stake) of Neuberger Berman and opted in stead for bankruptcy. These people never learn.
Posted by Harald , Nov 23, 2008 9:47PM
@4 yeah but then pandit wouldn't get all this free money from the taxpayer
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:47PM
@2 Please also see www.citigroup.com
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:50PM
It's funny how Michelle CC and the others always say "Charlie Gasparino has learned" --- she sounds like the annoyed mother saying "okayyyy Charlie, we'll make sure evvvveryone knows this is your story...don't worrry"
P.S. her cans are delicious as usual
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:55PM
Pandit's haaangink around, haaangink around. Kid's got alligator blood.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:55PM
Let it fail.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:58PM
Speaking of liquid situation, stuffedpetite.com just updated, be back in 10 minutes
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 10:01PM
@9
And then what? As a commentor pointed out earlier, we regress to chaos, you saying thats not only a viable option, but the best one?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:02PM
wideclops is the illegitimate child of vampire and shapeshifter
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:06PM
FYI - Just got through a live recording of Garcia and Kahn at Oregon State Prison (5/5/82)....freakishly good.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:06PM
@2 Any big organization registers many website names and runs its services off multiple servers to balance loads
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:06PM
@2
Hear,s you're answer so listen up.
www.citi.com only handles deposits and www.citibank.com only handles withdrawls. Believe its or nots alot you little Citi bitches work with kreashons I helped over sea SOP98-1.
SPODE
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:08PM
Michelle needs to shut her pie-hole. Its annoying to hear her talk as though she knows what's going on. Throwing out the buzzwords such as "money supply contraction" scores zero points. She probably looked it up on Wikipedia this afternoon.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:10PM
It fucking amazes me that once again, the crooks on Wall Street can get away with this disgusting crap.
I guess that when you are "too big to fail" its okay to be corrupt and engage in questionable and unethical practices.
Is this the kind of lesson we want to teach our children? No wonder why our country has gone down the crapper. I guess I can see why banking has become such a popular field: because in banking, all that matters is making money. As a banker, you can fuck things up and not be held to your actions b/c the govt will always fucking bail you out.
Posted by er666 , Nov 23, 2008 10:10PM
@16- that applies to everyone on cnbc.
Posted by Harald , Nov 23, 2008 10:10PM
@11 Chaos? i'm sorry but pandemonium isn't the logical progression here.
where is the pencil czar?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:11PM
@11
Yes. It is the only viable option. New institutions. The old must die. Otherwise we are talking about years of waiting on Sundays for the govn't to provide a 4-8 week lifeline with nothing getting better. Taking the pain now will result in a faster recovery and this won't happen until we use the system that has been developed over hundreds of years to deal with failed institutions.
If you all want to keep lying to yourselves while hugging your pillow and hoping things will turn around, god bless you but don't waste my fucking money on your project.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:12PM
@18 - i agree. but MCC just annoys the living shit out of me. makes me want to vomit in my mouth.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:14PM
@17 - Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:15PM
@6: Did you even read his post, he mentions citigroup.com
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:16PM
did anyone else notice Steve Liesman throwing a tantrum into his earpiece? i am thinking that he was telling someone that he was sick of MCC and GASPy.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:18PM
@22, fuck you, asshole.
I'm fucking sick of these Wall Street crooks getting bailouts b/c they are considered "too big to fail."
These cocksuckers should be sent to Federal prison b/c they fucked this economy up. This country has no morals or ethics b/c we reward crooks on Wall Street with millions in compensation while bailing out financial institutions. These fuckers on Wall Street haven't learned a single goddamn lesson.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:19PM
i thought they were going to wheel-out Mark Haines for tonite's bullshit.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:22PM
@25 - Who are you to judge? Did you make millions with your financial knowledge and expertise? No? Then STFU and get back to manning the deep fryer before your 19 year old manager Timmy docks you a day's pay.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:24PM
What's going on with this SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL thats being featured on CNBC? He was seeding HF's - more like a FOF it seems. Any intel on how bad their getting clocked?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:25PM
Vince is going to be in a Scorcese movie!!!!!!!
Where's the bitches????
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:25PM
@2: Well, with the off-balance sheet stuff, one could say that they're running duplicate sets of books, so why not duplicate businesses and duplicate web sites?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:26PM
@25 Fuck you bitch, go suck your own cock.
They didn't make millions with their financial knowledge and expertise; those assholes on Wall Street made millions fucking this economy up.
i hope you're happy that all those bonuses you earned as a banker were DIRTY MONEY. DIRTY FUCKING MONEY.
ALL THOSE BONUSES YOU MADE WERE BLOOD MONEY. I HOPE YOU FUCKING ROT IN HELL FOR THIS.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:28PM
@31 did your CAPS key break?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:28PM
wideclops got a role in the next oliver stone film
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:29PM
@27. Rock on, bro.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:30PM
@27 "financial knowledge and expertise" = oxymoron and don't hate the fryer bitch, the way things are going, Timmy's boot will soon be up your ass.
-retail.
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 10:30PM
@31
Don't over-generalize or anything douchnugget.
@20
I don't necessarily disagree with you that there needs to be a massive paradigm shift and that we need to avoid (similar to the GM situation) throwing $ at the problem.
However, this is a delicate operation. You cannot simply let Citigroup fail. The fallout would not be pretty, to say the least.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:31PM
@31, blood money? Who the fuck got killed?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:32PM
The only thing I regret about the state of the economy, is that I wish I were getting a bonus as big as last year's. Fuck main street.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:33PM
@35 rock on, bro.
I hate these fucking elitist pricks on Wall Street who realize they can NEVER be held accountable for their actions.
What the fuck happened to personal responsibility? Whenever these fucking elitist pricks fuck up this economy, they are rewarded millions in compensation while the economy crashes and burns. Meanwhile, their institutions are saved by a bailout under the pretense of "too big to fail."
These elitist pricks and assholes on Wall Street should be sent to the slammer.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:34PM
so what exactly is Charlie telling us? My exclusive, confidential sources (wsj.com and bloomberg.com) have the same info with the same disclaimers. The govt will probably bail out Citi, but they might not.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:34PM
@37, yeah exactly. @31 was greedy and stupid and listened to some broker and got fucked, and now he's blaming me.
@31 - Look in the mirror. Your own greed fucked you, not me.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:35PM
Ok I get it, Lehman a few months declared a plan to create a good bank/bad bank....Street does not buy it and boom, bankruptcy. FUCK YOU PAULSON, stupid mofo...now what??????? The same plan is devised by CITI and is going to work because CITI is too interconnected with blah blah blah...cry me a fucking river you dumb fucks, this whole system reaks to high heaven!!!!!
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:35PM
@37, the economy and main street was slaughtered by these Ivy League educated elitist pricks on Wall Street.
These elitist pricks continue to get richer while the whole economy dies and everybody else is losing their jobs and homes. These Ivy League educated elitist pricks on Wall Street continue to enjoy their private jets and billion dollar homes and are rewarded for screwing this economy up.
That's fucking blood money.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:35PM
@36
The "fallout" is limited to the equity and debt of these companies. Most everything else is already guaranteed by the government. Everyone else is a "big boy". To give the current owners of bonds or equity in these companies the opportunity to gain recovery is (i) sick, (ii) twisted, (iii) wrong and (iv) stealing.
F the US of A. This place blows. At least in Europe they tell you what they are going to steal beforehand. Here, they decide behind closed doors and let you know you've been fucked long after you could have taken the time to try to enjoy it.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:38PM
the avoid chaos argue was how TARP 1 was sold.
and we got chaos anyway.
same false choice here.
the real choice is how much of our kid's money do we wanna keep throwing at failing firms with failed biz models (any Capitalist's left? . ? oh, that's right).
the chaos was put into the system years ago.
it will come out one way or the other.
and if you're not at least understanding of 31's ALL CAPS sentiment, congrats, your silo is strong.
and your delusion allows me to short you to oblivion.
carry on holding iwo jima.
-retail
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:38PM
"Did you make millions with your financial knowledge and expertise?"
Your company's stock is trading in levels not seen since the 90s, just sayin.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:41PM
@ 17 & 25 Just curious, what is your profession? Honestly, what is your profession that makes you such a good person?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:42PM
@43, you really are an idiot.
You rant about these "Ivy League educated elitist pricks on Wall Street" but you are a complete moron to realize that all those products you brought ... were made by companies that were provided money and credit from ... here's a shocker, Ivy League educated elitist pricks on Wall Street.
Businesses can't just make products out of thin air. They need capital to make these products. And who provides the capital? Wall Street financial institutions and investment banks. And who runs these financial institutions and investment banks? Ivy League educated elitist pricks.
These Ivy League educated elitist pricks on Wall Street that you oh so eloquently rant against are the ones that have helped infuse credit into businesses everywhere. These same businesses that make the very products you use including the computer or laptop you use to rant against elitist pricks.
Just like our proud soldiers are fighting in Iraq to ensure that we the people of America can enjoy our freedoms, those bankers you hate and envy (you know, those "Ivy League educated elitist pricks") are the ones who make sure that corporations have the money to run their businesses so that they can provide you with the very computer/laptop you use to rant about elitist pricks on Wall Street.
These same elitist pricks make sure that corporations like Starbucks have the money so that they can provide you with $4/ latte while you bitch on your computer (that same computer which was funded by credit provided by elitist pricks on Wall Street) about how greedy Wall Street is.
Without these Wall Street elitist pricks, you wouldn't be able to have the luxury of whining on an Internet message board about elitist pricks b/c commerce as we know it would cease to exist.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:42PM
@43 Dude, this is not the forum to vent against "elitist pricks with jets and billions". On a Sunday night your typical DB audience consists of back-office IT types, Excel geeks aka analysts, other assorted dick receptacles and me. While I appreciate the passion, tone it down bro.
-retail.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:44PM
@45 & 46
Maybe you should understand letting the firms fail doesn't fuck the people you think it does. More than likely the people that made the millions are going to survive and thrive the next couple of years the country is in this mess.
People's 401k, life savings are vested in these firms. The average worker at these firms may get a little more than most but majority are middle class people.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:45PM
@47 - Wall St. creates the product, how it sells and where it goes from there is not their responsibility....could go on and on, but greed was not only on the minds of Wall St., it was on the minds of everyone involved in these products.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:47PM
Middle class people are fucking gross
On top of being slovenly lazy pigs, they all default on their subprime mortgages.
Wall Street's only crime is that we were so generous, we tried our best to help as many Americans as possible achieve the dream of home ownership. Unfortunately the 30 hour a week cheap beer swilling potato chip eating fat bastards spent their money on infomercials and walmart instead of paying their fucking mortgage.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:47PM
wideclops is a ivy educated
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:48PM
@10 thanks for stuffedpetite.com. i love it.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:48PM
@48
The capital markets don't usually provide money for business growth, but rather business cash out.
Wall Street ceased years ago to function as an enabler and has now shackled most American's (individuals and businesses) with a debt load they can't afford. They should all burn for their predatory lending.
and, for some caps, YOU ALL NEED TO WAKE THE FUCK UP. C IS BK. GS IS BK. MS IS BK. BAC IS BK. IT IS OVER.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:48PM
@52 - I like your style. Your troll-fu is strong.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:51PM
@43 Get a clue and learn how things work. True some got rich and some are fucking homeless. Obviously you are some IT knob-jockey of some sort looking for attention.
Posted by er666 , Nov 23, 2008 10:51PM
retail@49- how exactly do you have any idea who is on here? oh, right. you don't.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:51PM
@54, yeah that Madison Ivy is one hot piece of tight blonde ass
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:53PM
@52 I bet you must excel at fishing. Nicely done!
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:56PM
at 25/22.... you're a pussy.... get a decent education and then get a decent job on the street and you too can be better than mediocre... or maybe thats all you're good for... mediocrity.... atleast thats what your wife said last night when i was giving her the best fuck she's ever had. you ass hat.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:56PM
@55
A word to the wise. With life and anything no one is going to come to your house and explain how shit works. You take out a loan you couldn't afford, thats your problem. You run up your credit on shit you don't need, its your problem.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:58PM
wait a minute, 49.
i agree with your sentiments, but i'm the original "-retail" circa early 06, maybe even 05. . .??
wow, you know db is hurtin when there's 2 retails.
anywho, that's my handle, brosef.
-retail
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 10:59PM
@ 51, 47 here, I was not railing on wall street, I was wondering what the person in 17 and 25 who was railing on wall street does for a living that entitles them to their soapbox. I am a finance and economics major soon to be graduating into this fantastic job market. So basically I'm fucked.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:00PM
Give me 40-1 leverage and let me tell my risk people to go to hell, and I can produce some real eye-popping returns as well or better than any of these clown banks.
Investment and money center banks aren't supposed to be run like renegade prop desks, though.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:02PM
Will the real retail please stand up? We just moved your desk down to storage room B.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:03PM
Why do "civilians" read this blog? Seriously you guys like @25 need to step off and leave WallStreet alone and get back to your day job.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:03PM
I've said it here before, once it was suggested to me on dealbreaker, I took an entire unemployment check and started shorting financials. I made more than a paycheck the last two weeks.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:03PM
stuffedpetite is awesome, someone buy that man a blowjob....
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:06PM
@62
No debt, positive net worth thanks.
But no thanks to idiots in banks wasting (i) my invested dollars and (ii) my tax dollars acting, as 65 pointed out, like fucking renegade prop desks.
Not my problem. Not my dollars to fix problem. Burn it down.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:06PM
@69 Cheggit is where it's at. If you manage to register, that is.
Posted by cy , Nov 23, 2008 11:07PM
55-
I quote, "The capital markets don't usually provide money for business growth, but rather business cash out."
I think you want to replace "capital markets" with "equity markets." I don't think anyone would argue that the commercial paper market does not "provide money for business growth."
Moreover, even if the equity markets (specifically the secondary equity markets-- the ones talked about all the time) do not directly provide capital to companies, they do signal to the rest of the economy the health and profitability of all the different businesses. If a company is earning excess returns, its share price will rise and competitors will enter the market and expand capacity. So although there was no direct capital infusion, "business growth" still occurs.
That said, these markets overshoot almost all of the time, but, in the end, society benefits from the excess capacity, even if it comes at the expense of investors late to the game.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:08PM
@67 are you still employed?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:16PM
@68 I'd bet there is at least one conniving bastard at some desk in GS shorting his own stock and making money. When suckers like you get dragged in, GS will melt your face. You were forewarned.
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 11:16PM
Agreed, stuffedpetites is quality (and conceptually sound, to boot!)
This thread is full of sweeping over-generalizations, and it sickens me.
Everyone fucked up from Main Street to Wall Street and everywhere in between. Greed got the best of "us" and now we all have to pay the piper. Scapegoating isn't going to get us anywhere besides deeper into the shit.
Swallow your pride, abandon your class warfare rhetoric and accept reality.
@ retail (which ever)
register already and stop your bitching that someone hijacked "your" handle
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:16PM
This would all be fixed if poor people would just shut the fuck up and pay their god damn mortgages and stop whining.
I say that half joking. You buying a house and making the largest purchase of your life and you don't take the time to read the fine print, hire a lawyer, ask questions, etc.? Well fuck you that's what. The 4 condos you bought in Miami not worth what you paid? Fuck you. You amazed that your IO period just ended and your payment jumped up? Fuck you.
The consumer is more guilty than any one at a mortgage company or bank by a mile. Demand = Supply = Demand. People got greedy as fuck and over extended on a bet that HPA would be 10% for life. Nice bet asshole.
Look at all the no doc, stated income, stated assets, bullshit. Sure it was an option provided, but YOU the borrower chose to tell them you made 200k when in reality your a 4th grade art teacher who shouldn't get an Old Navy credit card, let alone a mortgage.
You signed a contract, you OWE. Tough fucking shit if your house is worth less now, you gambled and lost. Stupid should hurt.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:18PM
poor nigs need to stop taking out mortgages they can't pay and getting payday loans to buy crack. then everything would be ok.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:22PM
@76, you are the fucking man.
I am a proud Ivy League educated elitist prick working on Wall Street. Unlike you main street losers, I am above the law. I don't have to take personal responsibility for anything b/c I know I have the government in my pockets. We Wall Street are too big to fail so we do not have to worry about getting in trouble because the government is ALWAYS on our side and will bail us out at a moment's notice.
Damn, it feels real good to be a banker. We get paid millions in bonuses while we are not held responsible for greed or corruption. No, we choose to blame the people instead who should NOT be buying houses with their mediocre $50,000 or $60,000 salaries. It's easier to blame the people for not being able to pay the mortgages b/c as an elitist Wall Street banker, we don't have to take responsibility for the economy. We are above all you main street losers.
Sincerely,
A proud obnoxious Ivy League educated Wall Street elitist prick.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:26PM
The genius leadership at Citi first knew they had "$43 billion in mortgage-related assets" in September 2007.
Retards. They deserve to fail.
I've been positioning for the then-looming mortgage implosion since 2003. How so many lemmings were blinded by "Real Estate Only Goes Up!" -- as if it was some cult-like religion -- is truly surreal. One "genius" after another, one "expert" after another, all living in an alternate universe where having over 60% of new mortgages using exotic financing (compared to 2% six years ago) isn't a problem.
Only on Venus can you lend people 8X to 10X income on a mortgage and expect to be repaid.
If taxpayer money does indeed bail out Citi, at the very least they should be broken up. Punish these morons without remorse.
From the IHT (NY Times' Paris edition):
"In September 2007, with Wall Street confronting a crisis caused by too many souring mortgages, Citigroup executives gathered in a wood-paneled library to assess their own well-being.
There, Citigroup's chief executive, Charles Prince 3rd, learned for the first time that the bank owned about $43 billion in mortgage-related assets."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/23/business/23citi.php
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:26PM
@78 You are a hack. 52 did it better.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:27PM
Fuck Retail. Both of em.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:31PM
@70
The problem is yours. Along with everyone else if the economy gets even worse. No job is guaranteed.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:31PM
we're fucked "The federal government agreed Sunday to take unprecedented steps to stabilize Citigroup by moving to guarantee close to $300 billion in troubled assets weighing on the bank's books."
the wideclops
Posted by Harald , Nov 23, 2008 11:32PM
@76 your argument would make sense if it were the debtors paying for the bailout
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:32PM
Lesson learnt from this whole fuck-up? Some deadbeats are only suitable for payday loans and back-alley/liquor-store check cashing services. Any other remotely respectable institution trying to lend to them is simply going to result in wholesale disaster.
And then in the midst of the fuck-up those deadbeats (now empowered with a laptop and internet service funded by the fucking debts they refuse to pay) are going to troll all forum with THEIR CAPS LOCK ON!!
ps. Just one guy on my entire trading desk comes from a family which can be remotely classified as 'rich' (both parents doctors). They rest are all ordinary middle class kids who studied hard. They did not get in through any connections - they got in because they studied hard.
If only had CAPS LOCK ON DEADBEATS also similarly done something of worth, they might have to on foaming at their mouths WITH THEIR CAPS LOCK ON.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:34PM
Mr.Market likey. ES just jumped +10.
Posted by cy , Nov 23, 2008 11:36PM
76-
Your argument reveals a deep misunderstanding of the way a mortgage works. Bank makes loan to buyer. Buyer buys house. If buyer cannot make payments and the house is underwater, the buyer can simply walk away. The lender now gets to keep the house, but the house is now worth less than the loan. The buyer's credit rating will suffer (and he has to abandon the house), but the bank has no ability to place a lien on future earning to pay back the mortgage... even if you make $1 million a year and have millions of dollars in assets. That is the law. So, the LENDER bet and lost, not the buyer.
I'd suggest you read the Michael Lewis article in portfolio (because it's extremely interesting). The lenders had such an appetite for this paper that they had investment bank bond dealers cold-calling hedge funds to enter CDS contracts as short MBS books.
While all this is true, I don't think it completely exonerates the homebuyers. And homebuyers certainly have no right to demand that the taxpayer should find a way to keep them in their houses. Buyers got the good end of this arrangement... for them to demand more is incredible.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:37PM
yawn. goodnight happy people.
-retail
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:39PM
@88 Goodnight, bro.
-retail.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:41PM
per WSJ - deal is done bitches!
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:42PM
Retail @ 49 - Anyone not checking DB on the Sunday before Citi folds or gets bailed out, is probably a moron (see also: Chuck Prince @ 79).
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:43PM
@88, 89 goodnight, dudes.
-retail
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:43PM
per my dong, your girlfriend's ass is really tight
Posted by Harald , Nov 23, 2008 11:47PM
@49: #1 is hank paulson
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:47PM
Enough with the class warfare shit already.
What a bunch of whiny fucking Americans we are. We used to be about solving problems.
We can do it the hard/fast way and let the fuckers fail right now, take the pain and get it over with, or we can inflate the living snot out of the economy and do it 2 years from now.
Personally I'd rather take it on the chin now, but if we want to push the Keynesian approach to the limit, let us just do it.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:47PM
88, 89, 92,
i love you guys.
-retail
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:50PM
my nuts are huge
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 11:51PM
@ CY/#76
You have to clarify who you mean when you use the term "lenders", that is, do you mean the initial lender (mortgage broker), the middle man ("wall street"), or the guy who bought the MBS ("sheep")?
The real lender here was the end buyer(s). In traditional lending, Anybank makes a loan, and keeps the loan on their books; incentive structure is simple and well-aligned on both sides in this bilateral agreement.
When the situation gets substantially complicated, a 2-party agreement turns into a 7-party semi-sequential agreement, itself mired in failed incentive structures, its not surprising that shit hit the fan.
This new lending model itself is not at fault, however when the incentive structure is so horribly misaligned, its frankly amazing its taken so long for this to come to light.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:51PM
bailout announced
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:51PM
@97 wideclops' nuts are bigger
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:52PM
@76 - Channeling DeNiro/Goodfellas, I love it.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:52PM
BAILOUT
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/bcreg/20081123a.htm
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 23, 2008 11:52PM
all this hate on the lord's day...c'mon people, e and vinny made up, scorsese is going to our hero to the next level, jaime-lynn came clean about the turtle relationship, and the journal is confirming a deal for viky vik! up to $300 bn (damn, that was easy).
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122747680752551447.html?mod=testMod
can we get a poll on where c's stock closes tomorrow?
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 23, 2008 11:54PM
oh hold up! the fed is only getting 8% from vik (the bandit) pandit! didn't buffett extract 10% from both ge and gs? wtf? who's doing the negotiating here? I demand a recount!!!
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:55PM
Good Night Retail & Retail
-Not Retail
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:56PM
@49,
91 nailed it. I find not checking news on Sunday nights to be rather hazardous to my health of late.
-
Terms of this deal are brutal for Shiti:
$20b at 8%
C must take first $40b in losses.
--- Reverse of JPM/BSC deal.
C must have been in some really bad trouble. They take 20b at obnoxious interest in exchange for the pleasure of eating $40b in losses before the government takes any.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:56PM
Wall St + Fed + Treasury + FDIC = One Big Circle Jerk.
Posted by Harald , Nov 23, 2008 11:57PM
first $40b is nothing. that's a steal of a deal for C
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 11:59PM
this site is still blocked at the morg.
WORLD WISE
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:00AM
what does the stock do tomorrow morning?
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:01AM
108 - how much do you figure C is planning on losing? They've lost $64 so far and we've seen what that looks like.
Term sheet here:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/bcreg/bcreg20081123a1.pdf
$7b in preferred in exchange for the asset guarantee.
$20b in preferred capital injection.
Common stock dividend PROHIBITED without Treasury approval (ha).
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:04AM
Oh, and:
"An executive compensation plan, including bonuses, that rewards longterm
performance and profitability, with appropriate limitations, must be
submitted to, and approved by, the USG."
- 111
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:04AM
BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSWEN098720081124
Here's the bailout!
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:06AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122747680752551447.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us_business
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:07AM
110,
Stock should tank. Government just got as much preferred as the current market cap, with $2 billion a year flying out the door to government. Government also controls dividend for three years and C reserves the right to lose money through all of 2009.
Why on earth would you buy this?
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:09AM
Addendum to 115 - CRITICAL:
Eligible Assets:
"Asset pool consisting of loans and securities backed by residential real
estate and commercial real estate, and their associated hedges, as agreed,
and other such assets as the U.S. Government (USG) has agreed to
guarantee. Each specific asset must be identified on signing of guarantee
agreement. Assets will remain on the books of institution but will be
appropriately “ring-fenced.”
This does NOT cover any of C's credit/auto/student/other worthless consumer product loans.
Posted by cy , Nov 24, 2008 12:10AM
Anal-
When I say lender I mean the person that ultimately ends up carrying the loan. The MBS buyer. Personally, I think mortgage brokers are blameless. They had banks telling them to make loans, customers telling them they want loans, and they were getting paid to make the loans. Were I a mortgage broker, I'd be making as many loans as possible.
The ib's were just doing what they do- transferring risk and collecting fees. Unfortunately, they had too much inventory when the music stopped. Would never happen if they were playing the game with partners' capital instead of shareholders'.
The MBS buyers are ultimately the ones who need to make sure they're not buying stupid shit.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:10AM
Stock will open at $0.87 is my guess.
Sorry TGFD.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:11AM
http://www.stuffedpetite.com
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 24, 2008 12:12AM
@111 - good work, notice that bonuses have to be approved. if you work at the c, you better get ready for government pay...remember when:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12112006/photos/biz037a.jpg
those were the days...
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:13AM
Common dividend is not prohibited, just capped at $0.01
Institution is prohibited from paying common stock dividends, in excess
of $.01 per share per quarter, for 3 years without UST/FDIC/FRB consent.
A factor taken into account for consideration of the USG’s consent is the
ability to complete a common stock offering of appropriate size.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:14AM
C eats first $40B? Looks like $29B:
"Institution absorbs all losses in portfolio up to $29 bn (in addition to
existing reserves)"
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/bcreg/bcreg20081123a1.pdf
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:15AM
122 - See loss splitting provision.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:15AM
I think existing preferred holders make out well here. Looks like they'll continue to pay.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:17AM
Maximum of .01 is prohibited, for all intents and purposes. People don't own bank stock for .01 dividends.
Consider that freaking American Eagle pays .10 dividend.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:18AM
To make this relevant to StuffedPetite
With this deal, Citibank is like Kacey Jordan, and Hank Paulson is like the guy with the big cock
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:19AM
“We will continue to use all of our resources to preserve the strength of our banking institutions and promote the process of repair and recovery and to manage risks,” the regulators said in the statement.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=avb.Jr9Shn5I&refer=home
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:22AM
how about that towel head prince who just bought a bunch of shares the other day? haha, better start using that rag on your head to wipe your ass buddy, you'll need to conserve $
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:22AM
@125,
No way regulators vote down a decent dividend. They would know they would be pushing the company stock down.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:24AM
@128- That towel head is looking like he was ahead of the game.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:25AM
@ 129.
FYI company stock already down.
Fed has already said that TARP money will not be used to pay common share dividends.
Look for all bank dividends to be either cut to the bare minimum or to become extinct at least for next 12 to 18ms.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:27AM
everyone shut the fuck up and go to bed - you all suck!
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:27AM
129 - No way Treasury (not regulators, executive branch) allows C to pay decent dividend while C is losing money/ on government life support. There has been immense political pressure on this subject already.
That dividend is toast.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:31AM
ESL being the smart guy he is... bought this POS at the effing top! way to go Eddie!
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:33AM
ESL needs to clean up those shitty stores he owns. they suck....like shopping in a fuckin' cemetery.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:36AM
@133- I guess we have a difference of opinion on what the regulators/Gov/ would do in this situation.
Don't see them creating more scenerios for downward pressure. If there job is to create stability then thats what they will focus on doing.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:41AM
Stuffedpetite is terrible, sleazydream is soo much better.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:44AM
@137, not much of a fan, more of a brazzers man myself.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:48AM
@138
Fistmyass.com
SPODE
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 2:29AM
@SPODE
Touche
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 2:50AM
Damn, StuffedPetite rules
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 24, 2008 7:39AM
@118 - you couldn't have been more wrong, c is at $5.47 pre-market. whether or not it closes there who knows. but tgfd stepped up and if he sells will have made a tidy profit for showing conviction on friday afternoon. I'm not hypothesizing where it will close, but as I've stated before - the market is irrational, nothing seems to make sense.
@tgfd - can't say I agree with all (any?) of your views, but kudos to you.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 7:49AM
#13 youre not kidding. esp like the run for the roses
Posted by Goldman Sachs Neophyte , Nov 24, 2008 10:19AM
@61 great post man.
@17,25,31 Fuck you bitch. Some/most of us here actually work in finance. Stop trashing our industry. About the blood money/dirty money shit, do you think we really GIVE A SHIT about who the hell loses money as long as we make it on the other side? You are barking up the wrong tree with that "pity for the poor" shit. We don't give a fuck. Now go back to the deep fryer and cook me an order of french fries; you middle class, piece of shit/trash. Never, ever comment on Dealbreaker again. Ok...I am done with my rant now.
-That guy from Goldman Sachs (a.k.a.: TGFGS).
Posted by Goldman Sachs Neophyte , Nov 24, 2008 10:25AM
@135 ya K-Mart and Sears stores are really dirty inside. When I leave the store (yes I go inside...sometimes) I feel like a need to tape a long shower. Maybe after that, I can feel clean again.
-That Guy From Goldman Sachs (a.k.a.: TGFGS)
Posted by guest , Nov 27, 2008 10:57PM
@144 Your attitude is the reason why Ibanking will no longer exist in its current form. You money mongered in the short-term and in the end you were the one's holding the bag (the CDOs that you guys claimed were "just like treasuries"). This is a clear case of private sector in self-destruction mode. Leave your Excel spreadsheet on the table, go collect your $1800/month and join the soup line at the Fed.
PS I know that there are a lot of decent people on Wall St. Unfortunately the big bosses and the lemmings that do their work have attitudes like this guy.