Said to be:
Oct-08: -15.20%
YTD: -29.55%
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First bitches
Mike Mayo for President
Second bitches
Dick Fuld for Treasury Secretary
@1,2 – how long have you two been unemployed? isn’t it time to give up career in finance? why troll around in a finance website?
game over for you two losers
FUCK CAXTON
FUCK HEDGE FUNDS
FUCK THE PUSSIES WHO RUN THEM
FUCK PORTFOLIO MANAGERS
FUCK CAXTON>>>>>>>>
Hedge fund traders don’t lose money; redemptions cause it.
Pray tell guest #6.
Does the converse hold true, that hedge fund gains are caused by investors depositing funds?
If so where are the investor’s 2 and 20?
Jesse
Right. Caxton, Citadel, et al are down 25% or more YTD because of redemptions. Otherwise they would all be up double digits.
Caxton is down because they are wussies.
@5 wharton allcaps? or a frustrated janitor with low self esteem?
Someone needs a lesson here in the difference between realized and unrealized gains and losses. That said, some do in fact believe that the frenzied unwinding of positions by hedge funds (due to redemptions) was a factor in the sept/oct market decline.
@8: yeah right… citadel making money on its covert book? I’d like to smoke the same pot than yours…
@11 Agreed.
@10 – Not mutually exclusive. I know many Wharton grads who are janitors.
Redemptions FT-15.20%L
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f7c8d9ee-aa1a-11dd-958b-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1
Unrealized losses are better than realized losses because unrealized losses can only turn into realized gains right?
@14 like the complete 08 and 09 vintage. i hear they are skipping advanced portfolio theory and valuation classes just to spend more time with the pro’s working the halways, learn tricks of the trade.. How to sort mail, what cleaning agent to use on wood, how suck the blockage out off a clogged toilet…
17 No. They can also turn into larger unrealized losses. Oh wait, you’re kidding.
I’m a hedge fund trader…what’s a loss?
Generic Name Capital Management
Oct-08: -12.60%
YTD: -35.47%
Why do we care again?
@21 because if these returns continue a certain someone in Greenwich might have to sell some of his 30 toilets to pay for his mortgage….
Why do ratings agencies treat unrealized losses like real losses if unrealized losses are non-cash or “just on paper”?
~The Smartest Man in the World
When losses are of sufficient size, you have the following:
realized loss = shit in one hand
unrealized loss = wish in the other
@21- you’re right, you don’t to care about anything.
-nihilist
@21:
Because it tells the tale: Hedge funds are liars or idiots because they don’t hedge.
Look, a hedge fund should not have market risk exposure of this magnitude. Run HF betas over the past few years and you’ll see they are > 1 *cough* leverage.
They are supposed to have 0 beta exposure to most known types of market risk.
Seeing all these superstars go up in flames is telling that they really were just well educated casino gamblers. Or alternatively, too smart for their own good – that they missed the obvious, ala LTCM and liquidity+leverage.
I’ll bet most HFs simply didn’t learn from LTCM. shame shame shame
“All the hedgies in the house pull your pants up!”
“All the hedgies in the house pull your pants up!”
~Rappin’ Banker
@26…they are just glorified mutual funds that charge higher fees, especially now that 130/30 mutual funds exist
28 a 130/30 is not a hedge fund. Heres a quick lesson in portfolio construction: funds develop ideas and then weight or underweight them versus the index against which they’re benchmarked. Lets say GE has a 5% index weight – if they don’t like it, they invest 1% in GE, underweighting it by 4%. Say they don’t like JOYG, which has say an index weight of .1%. In a typical long fund, all they can do is not own it – resulting in a .1% underweight, which is insignificant. By allowing them to short, the 130/30 structure allows them to make a bet on not liking names like JOYG. And they would argue that they have their highest conviction in such names, since they are not as picked over as the GEs of the world. I dare you to start sh!!ting on me.
YTD the SP5 is down (34%)which means they have done their job-outperform the market. It doesnt matter that the market tanked-they did better.
@29…Apparently you can’t read. I said some hedge funds were like mutual funds, not vice versa. I say this because they make short bets not as a “hedge” against there portfolio, but purely as a trade to get extra return. If they did pair their long and short bets properly they wouldn’t be down 25%+ like the market they should be down only a fraction as their gains on shorts would offset their losses on their longs. Apparently this hasn’t happened from the numbers that have been coming out recently. And I just shit on you.
30 Wrong. Totally depends on the strategy. A lot of absolute return funds – which have benchmarks of say LIBOR + 3% – are generating big negative returns. Thats horrible, esp when you consider that investors buy those funds to port Alpha. That is, they buy the fund as well as S&P500 index futures, expecting an all in return of S&P500+3%. In this environment, they got a double whammy – loss on the index, compounded by a loss on the hedge fund.
@32…the use of “all in” is exactly why it is just like gambling…a fucking poker game.
You get fucked on the river or 4th street and you lose your shit. No matter how good the cards are that you held or how smart you bet…
Anyone want to buy some portable alpha? just give me a minute to pull it out of my ass.
caxton alpha equity is a long only fund, so not surprising they down 80% of what the MSCI World is down.
@29 no response? Are you to busy cleaning up after I shit on you?
…speaking of poker, lookee here at what DB’s fav hedgiecrush has been up to, instead of say, righting the ship at his underperforming-despite-call-of-the-year shop…
http://www.foxwoods.com/OurWonders/Gaming/Poker/PDFs/WPF/3000NoLimitHoldem-110208.pdf
Portable Alpha=Voodoo