You have no idea how "fluid" this god damn situation is. Charlie Gasparino now reports:
The government is looking to buy substantial amount of assets from Citi like a good bank, bad bank structure. The government will absorb much of the losses for Citi if there are losses and Citi would issue preferred stock to the government.The Feds could buy more than $100 billion in the bad assets if the plans go through. But that doesn't mean it will pay Citi $100 million [sic?]. The deal is not finalized but could be announced tonight.
Meanwhile, according to Reuters, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino hasn't heard anything about any talks between C and the federal government. Perhaps they're on a need to know basis.
Also! Gird your loins, because CNBC is airing a special variety hour tonight called "CNBC Reports: Saving Citi," anchored by Steve Liesman, Charlie Gasparino, and Michelle Caruso-Cabrera from 8-9, with possible extended programming in the event of breaking news. Jimmy Cayne is expected to avail himself for a satellite interview.
Update: The Journal has heard basically the same thing as Chaz. The paper also cautions that the situation is fluid, which has got to be some sort of copyright infringement.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 4:46PM
First! Ha
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 4:47PM
I hate this line: "Lehman Brother Good bank / Bad bank proposal blew up at the last minute"
Besides spelling missing the "s" in Brothers, Lehman was not working on a good bank / bad bank deal the weekend it blew up. All negotiations were centered around BAC or BARC purchasing the company.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 4:48PM
Will the wideclops known as Melissa Lee wear her fuck me boots tonight?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 4:49PM
kinda wish i would have held onto C shares over the weekend. oh well.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 4:49PM
WSJ also reporting this under "breaking news"
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 4:51PM
For once we're going to have good news for shareholders over one of these weekends (excluding MER)
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 4:52PM
WSJ article is up
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122747680752551447.html?mod=testMod
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 4:55PM
FUCK YOU GOVERNMENT
FUCK FUCK FUCK YOU.
-T Jefferson
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:00PM
@6 if by good you mean, > $0, then yeah it's party time.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:02PM
@9 gauging by everything that’s been written and said about Citi thus far, it seems like no one is interested in another AIG situation where existing shareholders get completely puked on
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:04PM
what'sa "wideclops"?; does it go to the bad bank? is there a "good" bank? lost in Soho, send $$$Ss
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:07PM
The blog below predicts bottoms and tops with practically a certainty. It is a money machine!
Its two latest calls are Bottom on November 20 for those who can buy at market close ONLY, and Bottom on Novemver 21 during PM session for those who can buy during trading session.
Details below. This blog makes wallstreet like a bank open for legal stealing!
http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/11/stock-market-bottom-november-2008.html
PS: you are either someone who take, or someone who lose on wallstreet. There is no other camp. There is a 90% chance that you are in the losers camp. When R U going to change that?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:08PM
@ 3 -- Melissa Lee doesn't have the right calves for fuck me boots.
By the way, I've heard the situation is fluid & dynamic.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:09PM
@12 die
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:11PM
The government is actually more interested in having the US banking system open for business tomorrow without a full on panic. The plight of the common equity holder is the least of their worries.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:16PM
@15 - But won't the now diluted arabs be pissed at America? Oh wait...
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:22PM
So, if another bank were to buy Citi (I think it's more likely that a foreign entity purchase it...Saudi) why would the Treasury agree to absorb all the losses? If they're going to suck up all that crap, why not just buy the assets from Citi right now?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:23PM
@11- Wideclops is girl with eyes too far apart
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:25PM
They should wipeout common stock.
@ 15 - The banks will open, idiot.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:26PM
Breaking news just hit Bloomberg, bad Citibank to be run by wideclops.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 23, 2008 5:31PM
good bank/bad bank structure is exactly what’s needed. until you cut the cancer out of the patient, it won’t recover. the questions that still need to be answered are: how much citi equity goes to the bad bank; what’s the “sale” price of the toxic assets; what toxic assets remain on the books; and, how much does the fed dilute current shareholders in the good bank? Remember, at a price to book of 25%, there is plenty of room for citi to give before the shares take a hit. but until we know the answer to the questions above, we won’t know whether or not tgfd made a good trade Friday afternoon. c’s shares trade in europe, so we should soon have an indication of what mr. market thinks of all this nonsense.
@20 - I thought wideclops had merged with the somoli pirates who were in talks to take over ms (but the situation was still fluid).
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:36PM
@21 what do you think about preferred here? Do you think theres a situation where the government forces them to stop payment?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:37PM
CNBC had better not go long - Colbert Christmas Special tonight! I'm not sure I could be torn away from coverage of this turd-polishing
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:39PM
Yeah, we ALL have a problem if the $50B that Citi raised this year goes to zero. If that happens, no one - not the Chinese or the sheiks or the Buffetts are going to give capital to the banks at any price.
If all of these regulators want banks to 'go out and raise private capital', they have to stop fucking over the investors - like they've done with Lehman, Wachovia, Wamu, NCC, etc.
The real reason bank stocks are tending toward zero is that all the current longs are afraid they're going to get stopped out at ~0 AGAIN.
Let's see the management of these firms take some pain and not just the mutual fund holders.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:39PM
Oops...the goverment is "getting cold feet" now and yeah, the situation is definitely fluid.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:39PM
@15
There should be a full out panic... the banking system has failed. The reason there isn't a panic is because the Fed/TTSY
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 5:41PM
@26
Shut.the.fuck.up.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:42PM
@26 Go and kill yourself, you gold hoarder. Do you jerk off to Ron Paul?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:44PM
In reference to 25, another update has been posted to CNBC.com from gasbag
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27873985
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:45PM
@26 a failure of the banking system is a failure by the Fed and the Treasury, etc.
We have this massive regulatory and administrative apparatus in Washington which is designed to keep the banking system safe. This has been an unmitigated disaster.
It's about time the Fed and the feds buck up and fix the problems they have caused.
That said, the banking system earns billions and billions of dollars each year on the steep yield curve. The banking system can earn its way out of this.
The problem is asset price deflation which is going to hit every business that holds assets - starting with the banks, next insurance companies, investment managers, pension funds, etc. But if this continues unchecked it will eventually hit any business that holds inventory.
But by then it is Mad Max time.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:46PM
According to gas-bag, the situation is still fluid.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:51PM
28,28 - You don't get it... there is nothing good about a "good/bad bank" - the system has failed - that is why the govt is bailing everyone out. What do you call it?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:52PM
By the way, this latest leg down and 'next phase of the crisis' was brought to you by Henry Paulson when he had to go running at the mouth saying he wouldn't ask for the additional $350B and wasn't going to buy any troubled assets.
Does anyone know if Paulson has brain damage? Or is he just out to ruin the US financial system? It's got to be one or the other...
Looks like the good bank/bad bank idea isn't going to work. But dumping another $25 or $50B into Citi preferreds should be pretty simple.
And where is 'Helicopter Ben' with the buckets of cash? I guess that was just talk when he said the Fed could avert a second Depression? The Fed is becoming largely irrelevant in all of this.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:53PM
@31 - Maybe he's all lubed up and awaiting a liquidity injection of his very own.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:56PM
@33 have you not been paying attention to the the Fed dealer facilities and credit lines that they've opened up with everyone?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:57PM
@ 30 - don't confuse the private sector banking system with the govt i.e. fed/tsy.
These guys made bad loans and got too leveraged, the govt didn't make them do that.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 23, 2008 5:58PM
@29 - how much of this $hit do you think no sleeves is making up? seriously, if greenlight went out and rumor-mongered like this they would have his head. chuck-e-cheesehead should stfu until he has real information. the guy is flip flopping as though he were on the presidential campaign trail...
@21 - trying to predict anything here is like trying to guess what will happen when a scientist walks in a lab. these guys seem to be making it up as they go. one thing that is likely certain, the equity div will be a bagel. this means that all those widows and orphans still holding the stock will sell. the negative loop continues...
now can we get this over with before 10pm, last episode for entourage tonight.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:59PM
@32 - the problem is uncertainty. We don't know if these banks are solvent or insolvent, but because we can't see their books we're presuming the worst.
A lot of the senior tranches of these CDO's are way, way, way undervalued under any non-Armageddon scenario.
There is a problem with mark-to-market accounting - on the way up and on the way down. In good times, just because some idiot is willing to pay a premium to own something doesn't mean I should be marking it there. The same is true when times are bad.
The good/bad bank scenario works out great if there are underpriced assets that will increase over time.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:59PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/futures.html
DJIA futures up 550 for tomorrow's open.
Something's brewing.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 5:59PM
@ 30 -- lol @ Mad Max
Kiddo, we are still by far the absolute wealthiest nation in the history of civilization. The country is full of productive assets (unlike Gold which has little value other than what goldbugs assign to it), a civilized population (usually) and plenty of resolve.
All we need to do is just monetize the debt, reflate this pony and get back to business.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:02PM
@39 check the trade date
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:03PM
@39. those are friday close data. check trade date and values.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:03PM
futures price on bloomberg is friday's close, not monday's open.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:03PM
@21 are you retarded? Look at a balance sheet. The common is no more than a long-dated (actually infinite) option on the residual value of C. When a January 2011 5 Call is $2.50. A $4 share price simply reflect the non-dated nature of the option. If C goes up $0.01 it means that the taxpayers (you, me and your parents) just gave money away.
BK is the only answer. For all of your shit firms. And, for full disclosure, I will profit.
Associate numbers are $0.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:04PM
@39 Umm..no. The ES futures have opened near Friday's close. But the situation is fluid.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:05PM
If the U.S federal government buys that toxic shit for $100B how the hell are they going to day no to GM/Ford without causing a major class war (literally in the streets).
This is absolute fucking bull shit. Hank said the feds would not buy this toxic shit. This man is destroying what is left of any confidence in this U.S. banking system.
It looks like Stevie Cohen was right. As long as the rules keep changing mid game, the best thing to do is sit the game out.
This is insanity....
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:09PM
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article5219445.ece
According to the Times, Count Vikula doesn't look like he'll make it to Thanksgiving with all his fluids intact.
Again, the situation is fluid.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:13PM
@36
Well the government didn't make them do stupid things, but the government should have stopped them. This is a vital failure of the "see no evil" regulators.
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 6:14PM
@47
From that article:
"Neither he nor Sir Win Bischoff, the bank's chairman, deserve blame for the toxic rag-bag of businesses patched together by Mr Prince and Sandy Weill, but it has fallen to Mr Pandit to cut costs, find new capital sources and seek ways to cleanse Citigroup's bloated portfolio of collateralised debt obligations, which are effectively worthless."
I like the "...which are effectively worthless" line in there, as if anyone @ the paper is qualified to make such a statement, ughhh
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:17PM
@Anal_yst
Go bitch about people not understanding what CFA means some more and leave real issues to people who understand.
The whole banking system is done. Let it burn and build it back. The FED (a private corporation) is dead. It has repoed $2T in crap assets at near 100% that are likely worth 70-80c on the dollar.
If you own treasuries, i'd own TIPS.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:17PM
@49
Vikula messed up the Wachovia deal. That's enough cause to can him.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:17PM
@6:15 E-mini down -8 no big deal
4 sale by owner - pit bull pup named lipstick
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:21PM
@all
this just in: gasbags giving wideclops fluid situations, market expected to respond favorably
as always, situation is dynamic. stay tuned.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:24PM
will trade pit bull for wideclops trick
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 23, 2008 6:24PM
@44 – can you read? while I do not purport to be an options expert, until you have answers to how the deal (if there is one) will be structured, you can’t call the equity worthless. making you nothing more than provocateur/speculator. after all, aig is still listed (correct?). love the full disclosure, but would you care to elaborate on how you “will profit”?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:24PM
bad assets = the whole damn company.
what a bunch of pussies. real estate in tribeca will soon get cheap.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:27PM
@56 - any good way to short the tribeca RE? tia kthx
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:28PM
@55 #44 must be long C 2.50 puts.
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 6:28PM
@ 50
Are you completely retarded, or possibly a Senator or Congressperson?
How, exactly, do you propose we "let the system burn and then build it back" preytell?
Please, enlighten us with your infinite wisdom!
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:28PM
will trade: 3 used wideclops
for: 1 tribeca studio
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:29PM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27873985
Citigroup: Government Now Said To Have Cold Feet
Update 2: Sources with knowledge of the deal say government officials are now getting cold feet over the plan to buy the troubled assets from Citigroup.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:31PM
@56
I'm with you. I thought the bad bank has the ticker C already. So who will take the "good" bank?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:31PM
@61 - Welcome to 45 minutes ago. You still long LEH? Keep up the good work. You must be a C prop trader.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:34PM
dow futures +46, S&P futures +8
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:34PM
@55
Go to edgar.sec.gov
Search for C
Pull up the latest Q
Next, pull up latest K
Read them
Then respond.
Thx.
PS if you don't know how I would profit, go live in your parents basement
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 6:36PM
i wish we could get this waiting game over with and just read the press release
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 23, 2008 6:49PM
@65 - you're so brillant, where were you when I was getting lambasted for calling the fall of wb when it was trading at 20? if you're going to make call, try doing your own work instead of piling onto someone else's trade. as for your "profit" if you're short the stock it's one thing, if you're long the options (puts) or short them (calls) that's another. but one shows you have more sack than the other...but you already knew that because you're so smart.
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 23, 2008 7:08PM
@ Cluzo
You can't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Alas...
Posted by Goldman Sachs Neophyte , Nov 23, 2008 7:10PM
@26 fuck you, go kill yourself NOW. Also, can someone at Citi tell Rubin to get his ass back to Goldman?
- that guy from Goldman Sachs (a.k.a.: TGFGS)
Posted by Phobos , Nov 23, 2008 7:21PM
@Anal_yst
Definition of politics, isn't it?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 8:28PM
what is Goldman doing with all their worthless toxic crap - are they going to sell it to their newly created commercial banks - bankrupt them and then continue to live happyly as invesment bankers?
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:52PM
@67
WB....what a good call...that was like, after BSC, LEH, FNM, FRE, AIG, CFC etc. So original.
I, the "brilliant" investor, was short BSC, CFC, FNM and FRE long before you woke up and realized there was a problem.
And I again insist that people should visit edgar and LOOK AT A FUCKING BALANCE SHEET ONCE IN A WHILE.
Thanks.
@71 No. I'd buy the $50 January puts.
Posted by guest , Nov 23, 2008 9:58PM
Too long; didn't read.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 24, 2008 8:16AM
@72 - what say you now? c is trading at $5.50 pre market, looks like tgfd can cash out with a significant gain for stepping up on friday afternoon. I'm not saying that it closes there, but the money has been made (and should be locked in). as for the wb call commentary, it was original at the time - go back and read the posts you newbie, I was called a "provocateur" at the time. but no matter, I profited from the trade which was buying the oct 7.50 puts when the stock was at 20 (you can figure out what I made). and yes, you probably did make money on all those trades but we'll never know for sure because (a) you weren't here making the call and (b) if you were, we can't go back and look up "guest" to figure out what you were saying at the time. as for your "look at a...balance sheet sometime" perhaps you should go back and read my comments, I had a "deathwatch" on wb, wm and wfc - still a little early on wfc, but the feds have now changed the game. the balance sheet analysis you requested is there for all to see. please review before making any more asinine comments.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 24, 2008 11:35AM
@72 – since you’re probably too lazy to look for the truth, exhibits 1 and 2 below, there are plenty of others:
sept. 10th: see comment #8:
http://dealbreaker.com/2008/09/after-lehman-who-is-next.php
sept. 15th: see comment 68, then the doubter at comment 86:
http://dealbreaker.com/2008/09/aig-rating-cut.php#comments
don't speak what you don't know b1tch..