12:08: Late as usual.
The country is in an economic crisis. (Really?)
Actually, it's a global crisis. We need Tim. (Chant in background: Tim! Tim! Tim! Tim!)
Larry is the starving middle-class guy's fat, white, rich guy. (Give up some for the Summ!)
12:14: Christina
Christina (that would be Christina Romer, to everyone else) has done "ground baking research." So, I suppose Thursday is cookie day in the White House.
We have to start today. Not a minute to waste. So we are going to just ignore the fact that there is still another administration in office. We are taking some immediate actions, and addressing the auto industry, the foreclosure crisis, clean energy, infrastructure and the kitchen sink. So we have cut a deal to borrow the set of The West Wing to get things moving quickly.
12:19:
Q. How soon are you going to start all this?
A. Yesterday.
Q. How big is this plan going to be?
A. Really fucking big. So big I don't want to talk about it right now.
Q. What about the Bush tax cuts?
A. Well, net, net of the 95% who will be getting a net tax cut, that's net, as I said during the campaign, there will be cuts and they will be balanced so we aren't going to touch the cuts since we need to get the economy on track, but those who can afford to pay more will pay more so we can all afford this stuff to avoid avoiding tax cuts. But I really can't discuss numbers. This thing is BIG.
Q. How are you going to afford all this?
A. Well, people might be wondering how we are going to launch this massive program and throw stimulus money during a recession and a massive crisis. Well, we are going to overhaul the entire budget system, the entire tax system, the entire way business is done in Washington, and the entire role of government before we reform the markets entirely and then... well... then we break for lunch.
Q. Didn't you forget the auto industry?
A. Oh, right. That's during our working lunch. I forgot to mention that. Well, we cannot allow the auto industry disappear. Not under any circumstances. But, if we have the circumstance where the auto industry does not have its homework done again in front of Congress then we are going to let the auto industry disappear.
Q. Is anyone in the current administration even speaking with you anymore?
A. Hey, easy there. I spoke with Bush and Paulson today, okay? Listen, Congress gave the current administration a lot of authority. Yes, I haven't even been sworn into office yet, but I am going to be assessing the TARP and directing it from my West Wing Set office starting tomorrow. Ok. Later guys.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:10PM
cpt?
Posted by NAS Keflavik boi , Nov 24, 2008 12:12PM
lollipops and ponies for EVERYONE!!
Yes, Larry Summers - the guy that helped shitcan Russia...
Posted by merkin capital partners , Nov 24, 2008 12:15PM
"the problem of income inequality"...kill me now.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:16PM
The prodiction targets for the new Five Year Plan are as follows ...
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:16PM
Are you guys drunk?
Posted by NAS Keflavik boi , Nov 24, 2008 12:21PM
yes - they have a consensus - we need to print money as fast as possible -- better make sure you have your wheelbarrows handy, kids, the hyperinflation down the road is going to be a doozy...
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:35PM
We are going to cancel our missile defense plans in exchange for the Russians being given the first right of refusal on our next Treasury offering...
does that answer your question?
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:38PM
Obama is such an empty suit
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:38PM
A banker should earn at least as much as a burger flipper at MCD...per hour that is.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Nov 24, 2008 12:38PM
@1 - oh no you di-n't!
the unprecedented amount of grandstanding prior to actually taking office is somewhat disconcerting. I understand we are in a financial crisis, but c'mon give it a rest already. one more issue: that corny "office of the president elect" seal that he had at the last conference has got to go, STAT.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:40PM
What's the problem with distributing some money from very rich people to people that are having a hard time? Police officers risk their lives on a daily basis so you don't have to worry about some big animal clubbing you over the head for your Rolex. Don't you think they deserve to be paid as much as some Wall St. banker that sits at his desk staring at a computer all day?
BUY!! SELL!!
Wow, what a benefit to the world. A fireman gets paid something like $50,000. These guys complain if their bonus is that low.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:41PM
#11 you must be lost- this is not the social workers website
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:42PM
The Emperor-elect has no clothes.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:42PM
Cops are all assholes. All they are good for is shaking down drug dealers and eating doughnuts.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:42PM
shut up 11. dont be mad that you cant BE LIKE ME
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:42PM
@11 supply and demand, bud.
wideclops commands you to crack open your little sister's econ 101 textbook
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:46PM
@11
Just because muggers are usually black doesn't mean they are a "big animal". Be respectful, this is a obama post.
Posted by Phobos , Nov 24, 2008 12:48PM
Needs more cow bell.
I've got a fever...
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:49PM
11 here ... "big animal" is not implying a black person. At least not in my head.
Obama's gonna make things right, you'll see. Keep working hard you bankers and back office people. We need to pay the cops and firemen to keep you safe.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:49PM
My economic team has informed me that the velocity of reparations money would be higher than any other form of fiscal stimulus.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:51PM
@16, 15, 14, 12 go find a four legged chair, flip it, and then y'all sit on it. Maybe then you'll feel better about yourselves.
Posted by Phobos , Nov 24, 2008 12:53PM
@21
From first hand experience?
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:53PM
@21 "y'all" WTF does that mean?
please, stick to herding cattle and fantasizing about cowboys.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:54PM
@21 "y'all" WTF does that mean?
please, stick to herding cattle and fantasizing about cowboys.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:58PM
Ok, who pulled Phobos finger? You'll have to stop doing that. He can stink up a room in seconds flat with his bio attack.
@Phobos turn off the electric blanket ya lazy bastard.
-Not Phobos
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 12:59PM
does he even have a clue as to how this whole system even works?
Posted by cy , Nov 24, 2008 1:01PM
11-
Countless times we've been provided with historical evidence which shows that direct wealth transfers from the most productive to the least productive members of society provides no long-term benefit for anybody. (In fact, it often produces long-term damage.) How much wealth are you planning on transfering that would make a significant difference in the lives of the middle class? Is $1,000 really going to change anything? $10,000?
The middle class in this country needs to help themselves-- through savings, education, hard work. There is no other way.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:01PM
I could hire a whole private security force to guard my office with the cash thrown off in my sweep account. Security is a non-issue here.
I think the Obama-bots have officially taken over for the Paul-bots.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:02PM
@11
Wall St. looks for people who are intelligent, confident, and hardworking. Not booger picking morons who hide behind a gun and badge because they have unresolved childhood issues. A fucking monkey can fill out a sheet of paper with boxes on it.
Get the fuck out of here cunt.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:04PM
anyone watching CNBC now? Who's that clown?
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:04PM
good god, someone put up a screenshot of Alwaleed lounging in his chair, camels in the background.
do it bess!
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:06PM
bahahaha who is watching CNBC
now i know why persians dress like the way they do at clubs.... LOok at that man
HAHAA
a scarf and sunglasses REAlly reallyy???
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:07PM
Bin talal holding court from his polar bear lined barco lounger in the fucking desert.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:08PM
i am crying right now with laughter
~M
32
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:10PM
A guy with camels and horses in background, and wicked appearance to say the least is giving advice on CNBC. Nuff said
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:12PM
Wow Talal throws Chuck Prince under the fucking bus
"Weill called me an apologized for appointing Prince"
ouch
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:13PM
Sunglasses at night and some serious horse SH&T in the background...
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:13PM
Citi is becoming over capitalized ... but that's ok in these times. Citi can be overcapitalized now.
-Not Bin Talal
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:16PM
I'm pretty sure the Prince is actually legendary, Ding-Dong singing, Swedish pop star Gunther:
http://www.gunthernet.com/
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:16PM
GS puts still on sale.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:16PM
i will... never sell.. citi its.... a core... holding for... me i ... have a...complete half... wit what... is captilsim
while waving his hands and shaking around the marble string
what the fuck are the donkeys doing back there
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:18PM
Is it jut me or this guy lost 13Bln last year alone on his stake in C?
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:19PM
@27
How do you reconcile this view with giving away $750bn to failed institutions?
I think we'd be better off if all individuals had received $5,000 and had been forced to pay back debts to the extent they were over-extended.
Posted by Phobos , Nov 24, 2008 1:20PM
@25
That's the weirdest comment I've ever seen.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:24PM
@39 Gunther is god tutti fruity summer love, Gunther's Christmas song dont you dare compare his greatnesss (GUNTHER) to that half wit
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:25PM
EP - your snarky tone in this blog is ridiculous. The only reason Obama's giving this presser is because the markets are clamoring for certainty about the direction of US fiscal policy in his term. It's not because he wants to usurp Bush (in fact, it would be entirely to his advantage to stay off-stage for the next two months, and let Bush take the blame for anything that goes wrong in this period)
Posted by Anal_yst , Nov 24, 2008 1:25PM
@43
Because its not that simple my friend. If we could just give $ to debtors and force them to use it to pay their debts, fine, problem solved, however back in the realm of reality its just not that simple.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:28PM
Transferring wealth directly from the top of the ladder to the bottom = dumb.
Providing basic, critical services for all citizens of a nation regardless of wealth (ie education, protection, health care) = the whole purpose of having an organized society.
These services should be paid for proportionally according to the means of the individual (graduated scale).
How is it that so-called civilized individuals truly believe that this sort of idea is wrong or flawed? It just makes such perfect sense. Perhaps if one took a moment to think with his brain and his heart rather than his wallet they would see how flawed our current system is.
Compassion and brotherhood is the basis for any truly great society.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:30PM
@48 yes and then we all sit around singing kum-bay-ya right?
Get a clue.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:30PM
@30 - That is Don Novello (aka Fr. Guido Sarducci) doing a killer impersonation of an oil rich sheikh circa late '70's. Great stuff, Don.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:31PM
@6 - hyperinflation is absolutely, positively the last thing policymakers should be worried about now. Try "massive deflationary spiral" instead, that's where we're going to end up if they do nothing.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:31PM
Single Greatest "Tag" ever. Well done EP.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:33PM
48: Please to identify any truly great societies which operated on the principles of compassion and brotherhood as opposed to the principles of the rule of law and the rights of the individual.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:35PM
@46
Agree. EP is Republican tool. No need to reason with her or her choir. Just ignore and move along. Come here for Bess's jokes and gossip. That's what this site is about.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:35PM
Can someone please post a link to a video of Prince Alwaleed's interview on CNBC?
Thank you.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:35PM
@51
Correct - we all saw how well consumers held up earlier this year in the face of high oil and food prices. We just have to get house prices back up to the point where nobody can afford them either, then we'll all be a-ok.
Posted by cy , Nov 24, 2008 1:36PM
43-
I don't think taking money from productive individuals and institutions and giving it to unproductive insitutions is a good idea either. I've never stated that it is, so I don't see how I've been inconsistent.
By keeping Citi alive, the government is effectively placing a tax on citi's competitors (BAC, JPM, HSBC, etc.) that is exactly equal to the subsisdy that C is receiving. Were that tax the method of subsisdy (instead of saying we're going to guarentee c's assets, the gov't says we're going tax all of c's competitors) would anyone argue that this is a good idea?
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:36PM
@11 Obama thinks $50K a year is a comfortable salary. That's why the pre-friendly cuddly Obama wanted to range taxes on that bracket.
Unfortunately, firemen and policemen in most places in the US make alot less than $50K a year. In some places they make less than $20K.
Of course, this is all really beside the point, since no one is talking about raising taxes to increase fireman and policeman pay.
Posted by cy , Nov 24, 2008 1:39PM
48-
Perhaps one could argue that the government should make sure that some basic needs are affordable for everyone. Unfortunately, our government is actually doing things this second to make our basic needs more expensive. Take food for example-- currently, the us government pays farmers not to farm parts of their lands. Essentially, the government makes food more expensive for everyone else, so that the least efficient farmers are able to "maintain their way of life." (Politicians love to take issues that should be hard choices about the efficient use of scarce resources and frame them as instances of moral outrage.) Similarly, the government imposes tariffs on food imports to further protect farmers. This means that the world's most efficient farmers are not producing as much as they should, which means higher prices for everyone in the world. (sugar, for instance, costs two to three times as much in the us as it does on the world market.) If you're still unconvinced, consider this: the us government is in the business of subsidizing factories that turn corn into transportation fuel (ethanol). Unfortunately, this process of producing ethanol is currently a net-negative energy process. This means that it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than the energy produced by burning the ethanol. This would be like if you lived so far from a gas-station that you couldn't get home and back on a tank of gas. Your car requires more energy to fill it up than it can produce. Meanwhile, people in this world are starving! How absolutely fucking insane is that. It's like telling some people not to breathe so that they don't interrupt the kite-flying of the privileged class.
What are our other basic needs? Shelter? Again, the government does more to harm the situation than good. Through overly-restrictive zoning laws and nonsense open space laws, governments create an artificial scarcity of land. This, again, results in higher home prices. These higher home prices are good for home owners (who, non-coincidentally, are the voters who elect the officials that propose and strenghten these zoning laws), but they are bad for the poorer people who don't yet own homes and would like to buy them. An official will usually soothe his conscious by ordering a builder to build a few token homes to be sold a below market price. So someone gets a cheap house (the official's nephew?), while everyone else is saddled with high prices.
Posted by Harald , Nov 24, 2008 1:42PM
Why does Obama refuse to address head-on the questions of where this money is going to come from. In every single press conference he dodges those questions. This time he spoke to it by saying those making >$250k are going to have to pay "just a little bit more."
I'm not sure who on the "economic team" does his math for him but $7 trillion outlay, divided amongst the top 5% of the 140 million tax returns = $1 MILLION per household. Not exactly a sum I would make tiny hand gestures about.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:44PM
@59
cy can you pls summarize your prophecies for the ones among us that actually are still employed and have an alternative use for their time?
thx, PE Baller
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:44PM
Obama's economic plan just sounds like one big circle jerk to me.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:46PM
@53
No one says rule of law is flawed. Law is certainly a critical aspect of any society. But isn't the whole point of banding together as a nation to advance everyone? Shouldn't the basic services needed for life, productivity and security be pooled and shared?
Everyone pays into it, everyone uses it. We certainly have the paying part down. It's what is done with our tax money that is the atrocity. Subsidies for failed business? Is that what you call a free market society? We have the worst kind of socialism in this country if you ask me.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:48PM
@56 - so what are you saying, deflation is preferable to inflation?
@54 - Somehow, it's always the amateur bloggers who take the ridiculous wingnut positions.
@54 - the money is going to come from increasing the deficit and taking on more debt. The US Treasury is the only part of US society that has excess borrowing capacity right now - if they don't take on more debt, we probably head into a deflationary spiral and depression.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:50PM
@ 38
Why should people pay "proportionally according to the means of the individual"? Are my children going to use twice as much educational resources as the unemployed person's? It sounds like forced charity to me (also known as stealing).
If the government would get out of the way of causes best left to the private sector ilke healthcare and education we would all be better off.
The socialists say that because we don't want the government to be involved in healthcare we want no healthcare. It is as if they believe because we do not want the government to grow food we do not think people should eat.
Posted by cy , Nov 24, 2008 1:53PM
61-
Sure. (btw- I'm not in the business of prophecy or prediction. Just looking at what is going on)
The gov't is making life more expensive for everyone.
The ones who bear the brunt are the poor/middle class.
The markets are smarter than any government committee or planner.
Humans have four means of allocating resources- violence, religion, politics, and markets. I'll let you guess which one works.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:56PM
GS puts still on sale.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 1:57PM
anyone know 1st year associate numbers?
Posted by whatelseisgoingon , Nov 24, 2008 1:57PM
@27, can you provide specific examples please? I'm not saying I disagree with you, I am just seeing if you were listening to talk radio this morning and are just repeating what they said to make yourself sound intelligent.
Thanks
Posted by cy , Nov 24, 2008 2:01PM
69- examples of what?
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 2:01PM
@65
The real reasons you were able to achieve the level of success I assume you have is:
1. Because you live in a society that allowed you the opportunity to work hard, set goals for yourself and then go out there and execute your plan.
2. You were lucky enough not to have one of a thousand horrible random events turn your plan on its head. Never underestimate the role of luck in life. We are all always one horrible car accident or one illness away from disaster.
I am one of the lucky people. But I know people who are just as smart, work just as hard, but fortune did not smile on them. They are slaves to impossible medical costs and I believe our society suffers today because their energies are wasted holding down jobs they must have doing things they are overqualified for simply because they have to maintain their health insurance. If that burden were lifted I have no doubt they would be much higher 'producers'.
Posted by whatelseisgoingon , Nov 24, 2008 2:05PM
"Countless times we've been provided with historical evidence which shows that direct wealth transfers from the most productive to the least productive members of society provides no long-term benefit for anybody"
specific examples?
Posted by cy , Nov 24, 2008 2:05PM
64-
think about what you are saying...
"The US Treasury is the only part of US society that has excess borrowing capacity right now"
Why are people willing to lend to the treasury, but not to individuals or other institutions. Does the treasury run some extremely profitable business somewhere that no one knows about? The treasury (and the gov't in general) doesn't produce anything! Where is the money going to come from? Increased taxes down the road on exactly those individuals that cannot borrow now? How can that make any sense?
Posted by bondguy007 , Nov 24, 2008 2:07PM
Price Douche Bag
http://www.zawya.com/pr/images/PrinceAlwaleed07_2007_08_09.jpg
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 2:11PM
@71
You happen to be right. Let's have all the explosively rich people in the world pool their money in one spot and bail out all the "unlucky" people. Let's say, such as, and like all the people need that help, they get it.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 2:16PM
Forced charity is my tax dollars going to flyover red-staters who get money for not farming and not growing crops and not working. Heart of America my capitalist ass -- if people bitch about no welfare for urban people, I sure as want the rural welfare recipients to take their hands off my wallet.
Incentivize and reward innovation and hard work; the tax code is an unenforceable joke and welfare/redistribution is about politics. I'm tired of whiny flyover staters crying about how life is sucking for them, but they insist on doing the agricultural equivalent of making covered wagons and wondering why nobody wants to buy them and they're still broke.
Posted by cy , Nov 24, 2008 2:17PM
72-
Sure. Let's start with taking the production capacity from russian industrialists (by force) and turning it over to the USSR.
Look at the campaign of taking lands from white colonialists in south africa and returning it to the indigenous africans.
The same things happened on a larger scale (with even worse results) in rhodesia/zimbabwe.
Look at the track record of building housing projects in the US (with tax dollars) and turning them over to the society's poorest. Does anyone argue that that program is a success?
Mao Zedong's "great leap foward" sought to collective the property and production of chinese farmers. This resulted in the starvation of somewhere around 30 million people.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 2:48PM
Each tax dollar taken from 'rich' doesn't end up as a tax dollar given to the 'needy' since much of it is spent on expenses of administering the tax system (tax lawyers, IRS, other govt programs and agencies) and that = inefficiency. It also deteriorates the incentive of those who work extremely hard earning their wealth to continue doing so, and if taxes are high enough, entrepreneurs will just shut down operations thereby putting many of the 'needy' out of employment. Redistribution of wealth is point-blank retarded and any economist will tell you that. All the down country deet-da-dee moralfag fucktards who commented here should do everyone else a favor and commit suicide to lower the tax burden. No doubt you have no financial education at all and pinning EPs lovely post on her being a 'republican tool (54)' just shows you cannot speak to these issues without resorting to some silly party bias bullshit. I am independent, and many of you should be fucked with a glass covered louisville.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 2:52PM
@71 - and the Iraq, because, those children don't have maps.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 3:06PM
@66
"The markets are smarter than any government committee or planner."
Given the activity of late how can you possibly endorse this?
@72
Your examples are good, but a whole other host of factors come into play. One could be implementation of the plans. Another could be a lack of real people to oversee the projects on behalf of the interests of the people involved.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 3:08PM
@71 here
Redistribution of wealth is a horrible idea, I agree. Giving cash handouts to anyone is plain dumb. But having a government that provides vital services, above all health care and education, would result in a far more productive society. Lower the defense budget and redeploy that capital to investing in our own people. Without the cloud of medical and education costs hanging over people productivity is almost certain to spike. Without a healthy, educated population what resources can the capitalist draw upon to create his enterprise?
We tie our own hands in so many ways...
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 3:16PM
@80 "Given the activity of late how can you possibly endorse this?"
You are implying the market was given an opportunity to work. this has not happened.
the market would have corrected the problems, by eliminating them. the gov't has done nothing but exacerbate problems.
wideclops say, "don't blame the market for the folly of man."
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 3:30PM
82 couldn't be more correct.
The government created this housing bubble through Fannie, Freddie, and policies designed to help people without easy access to credit.
It looks like those people shouldn't have had easy access to credit after all.
But wait, how else are we going to lift people out of poverty! Maybe they will have to do it themselves...
But wait, how else are we going to buy votes!
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 3:40PM
@82, 82
You are correct that the market could have "corrected" this but I'm sure this "correction" you speak of isn't going to help anyone. I consider myself a pragmatist so I guess we will fundamentally disagree on what policy should do such a situation.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 3:42PM
Damm it. The market was supposed to tank after Obama opened his mouth. It's now up 7.7% on the S&P 500. The day is not over yet. Sell, sell, sell!!!
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 3:43PM
84 here, I meant 82 & 83
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 3:44PM
@84 and i understand your point.
my question is, "is what we've been experiencing for 1.5 years really that much better than the market's method?"
i'm not convinced...
~82
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 4:11PM
Too long. Didn't read
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 5:00PM
Right on EP!! Glad see someone able to think for themselves who doesn't buy into this Obamatron crap. He's such 5 year-old.
Posted by guest , Nov 24, 2008 5:00PM
Right on EP!! Glad see someone able to think for themselves who doesn't buy into this Obamatron crap. He's such 5 year-old.
Posted by guest , Nov 25, 2008 12:42AM
...and don't bother him during his 'working lunch', just let him eat his waffle, OK, guys?