Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 12:02PM

Were I a reporter, I'd call up Brian Shapiro at Carbon360 and ask him who the top self-administered HFs are. Just sayin'.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 12:17PM

i think we really need to know who is self administered and has a sham auditor.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 12:28PM

Pretty sure Grosvenor is self-administered.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 12:30PM

I hear Jim Simmons is self administered too. Can someone verify?

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 12:32PM

de shaw was but they are switching over.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 12:32PM

subscribe to a database like myfundfinder.com and you can check.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 12:42PM

Administration is just one of the issues. Focus on a real auditor, a real staff where there are a number of people at the firm, relationships with 3rd parties and actual trading in the market that other parties can see and verify.

There's no one smoking gun. Someday just maybe people are going to learn that there are no sure things in life and that you actually have to think for yourself at some point as opposed to abdicating the right to do so to someone with major conflicts of interest.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 1:02PM

It would seem the real problem that allowed Madoff to steal everybody blind was not the self-administration, it was the fact that he was a broker-dealer, no? Even if you self-administer, your trades are for the most part routing through external brokers or platforms where there will be an audit trail of your executions. (You would obviously need a competent known outside auditor to sign off on audited financials, of course.) But since he was the BD, and most everybody assumed he was front-running his order flow in some fashion, they never questioned it. Now it appears that there was very little, if any, trading actually going on.

So are there are major funds that are their own BD? The structure is rife for conflict, soft-dollar abuse, and can end up screwing the client. Oh wait, I just described Goldman...

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 1:30PM

...and citadel...

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 1:37PM

Self administered isn't all that bad IF there is someone legit doing the audits...

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 1:47PM

I worked at a fund that was self administered and it was completely legit -- we lost our investor's money the old fashion way

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 1:52PM

"It would seem the real problem that allowed Madoff to steal everybody blind was not the self-administration, it was the fact that he was a broker-dealer, no? Even if you self-administer, your trades are for the most part routing through external brokers or platforms where there will be an audit trail of your executions."

I am pretty sure a lot of Millenium Partners trades are self executed by Israel A. Englander and Co.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 1:59PM

As I understand it, in a scenerio like a fund investing in Madoff, all GAAP requires the auditor to do is obtain a confirming letter stating that the money is there. No actual verification of the trades or assets held in the fund are required. I have personally read the KPMG report stating $1.3 billion in CASH held at Madoff at year end 07. All KPMG was required to do was exchange letters saying in essence "Is that 1.3 Billion in cash right?" Madoff's answer, "Yep." Gaap satisfied.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 2:23PM

9 here. Uncle Izzy's name has popped up in this regard before. Successful long-term track record? Check. Extremely secretive? Check. Investigated by the SEC? Check. Cranky old Jewish guy? Check. Has his own DB? Check.

Hmm, where have we seen this before?

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 2:36PM

@14, I'm on the broker/dealer side and every audit letter I've ever received from one of the big accounting firms requests for us to send them month end statements for any account that the fund might have with us. Hence, @9's point is legit since Madoff could create his own statements through his own brokerage firm.

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 2:36PM

I'll be the first to state it flat out.

I cut my teeth in Chicago, on the floors of the CBOE and CME, I've been both a market maker and an off floor- back when you know it was actually two floors off the actual exchange floor; and I'll say this, every single market maker/trader I've ever known was always, always completely spooked by Izzy- reason, the guy was known as a consummate pickoff artist, and he was ALWAYS right.

When I later heard about the "success' of Millenium I was moooorree than suspicious.

Well Izzy was imho as "curved" as they come in this business, and now that Madoff has been outed I am simply waiting for what I know will be soon, ohh so soon, coming.

Izzy, hopefully has a Venezuela address ready.

lemondropkid

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 2:39PM

I'll be the first to state it flat out.

I cut my teeth in Chicago, on the floors of the CBOE and CME, I've been both a market maker and an off floor- back when you know it was actually two floors off the actual exchange floor; and I'll say this, every single market maker/trader I've ever known was always, always completely spooked by Izzy- reason, the guy was known as a consummate pickoff artist, and he was ALWAYS right.

When I later heard about the "success' of Millenium I was moooorree than suspicious.

Well Izzy was imho as "curved" as they come in this business, and now that Madoff has been outed I am simply waiting for what I know will be soon, ohh so soon, coming.

Izzy, hopefully has a Venezuela address ready.

lemondropkid

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 2:54PM

Millenium is definitely a shady operation. SEC should pay another visit there.

Weiss is also very shady

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 3:34PM

Which Weiss?

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 3:35PM

Which Weiss?

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 3:58PM

and Stark investments in Milwaukee

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 4:12PM

Paulson & Co.
advantage plus.

Location/Domicile Delaware
Strategy Event Driven
Accounting Currency US Dollar
Management Fee 2.00%
Incentive Fee 20.00%
Prime Broker Bear Stearns
Hurdle Rate No
Custodian Bear Stearns
Auditor Rothstein, Kass & Co., P.C.
Administrator International Fund Services (N.A.) LLC

Posted by guest , Dec 23, 2008 8:28PM

Some well-known self-administered funds:

SAC
Citadel (through Citadel Solutions)
Millennium

Posted by guest , Dec 24, 2008 10:43AM

Um..... pardon my ignorance.... who is uncle Izzy?

Posted by guest , Dec 24, 2008 12:24PM

Uncle Izzy/Israel A. Englander (Millenium Partners)has been playing the game as long as Madoff.

Remember Ivan Boesky, Michael Milken, and John A. Mulheren. Mulheren was the one caught going over to kill Boeskey with a machine gun.

What was Mulheren's firm? Jaime Securities. JAMIE -- John A. Mulheren Israel Englander.

Try and find Izzy's name in any of the many books and articles written about the insider trading schemes. He must have good lawyers.

In "Den of Thieves" Izzy is only mentioned on one page and he is not even listed in the index.

Posted by guest , Dec 24, 2008 12:30PM

"His Manhattan home address is so fancy it just had a bestselling book written about it—740 Park: The Story of the World's Richest Apartment Building, by Michael Gross"

http://www.badfaithinsurance.org/reference/Annuity/A0440a.htm

http://cityfile.com/profiles/israel-englander

Posted by guest , Dec 24, 2008 4:36PM

when izzy & co. were in the shit with fund timing the coo and the head of ops both knew about it, did nothing and are still there, that place is corrupt to the core...

Posted by guest , Dec 25, 2008 2:33PM

Millennium is legit - i know first hand .you guys posting crap on here have no idea what your talking about - madoff and izzy are not on the same playing field - madoff scum - izzy the real deal - he has over 100 guys running portfolios who have legit long term records

Posted by guest , Dec 30, 2008 5:30PM

There are more Ponzi schemes out there. Wait and see.

Whartonchick

Posted by guest , Dec 30, 2008 5:39PM

which weiss?

Posted by guest , Dec 31, 2008 7:55AM

DE Shaw...highly liquid strategy...but won't tell you what they do...gated...odd?

Posted by guest , Jan 02, 2009 11:14AM

You can create a free account at www.myfundfinder.com and look at the admins every fund

Posted by guest , Jan 24, 2009 2:47AM

to 35:

"DE Shaw...highly liquid strategy...but won't tell you what they do...gated...odd?"

Not so sure. Some rough estimates from totally public news/article reports would indicate (or can be interpreted as) that the possibility cannot be ignored that in the *worst-case* scenario: anywhere around 80% of their Composite fund and 50% of their Oculus fund could be highly illiquid.

Self administration, but independent auditor is quite common of the usually illiquid and large players. The self admin helps in being lax with marking down losses. The independent auditor (unlike in the case of Madoff) hardly cares about how the illiquid stuff is marked as long as something is being done about valuations etc. But also, I am nowhere implying that this is the motivation with DE Shaw, since I have no accurate information.

BTW, I know very little about them, my guesses are mostly based "mosaic theory" approach using public info. DE Shaw, as you know, are highly secretive. So please read my comments above with all kinds of disclaimers - and ignore any implied reference to DE Shaw as a frivolous inaccurate statement.

Posted by guest , Jun 08, 2009 11:27AM

I worked for millennium a real shady place

market timing scam they all knew what was going on, gave that trader $1 billion to trade it. IT systems tracks ever trade and Izzy goes over everything out of place, I have had him question $100,000 positions he didn't agree with so no way he didn't know what thst guy was doing with his $1 billion book.

when the shit hit the fan in 2003 he had a plan called the "big enchilada" where we would close down Millennium in NY and launch a new firm overseas outside of US laws. never got to this as SEC ony raped his knuckles with a small fine - small for how much money they have.