Oh, this is going to chap some Bank of Amerillwide hide. The FT reports that the firm plans to defer bonus payments to capital markets and investment bank employees this year, though a spokesman for BoA claimed he wasn’t aware of the news. The policy will affect payments of $50,000 or more, with staff that was supposed to receive cash-money next month waiting until February 2010 to get the first third of its bonuses, and the remaining two-thirds in 2011 and 2012.
Related? Setting The Story Straight On The Merrill Bonus Rage
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- Use the Bloomberg command
NH BLG_DEALBREAKER <GO>
to access Dealbreaker
What are the odds you even stick around to see Year 2 and 3? Essentially they just cut everyone’s bonus by 2/3rd (at least the one’s who will find work elsewhere)
That place must be so miserable to work at right now. Anyone there care to comment? Is there sht being thrown on the bathroom walls yet?
bofa is a big ()
Trying to integrate the Merrill sht flingers with the BAC sht flingers is proving difficult
too Merrill..only read the comments
lemme get this straight..MER employees get their bonuses ACCELERATED while the BAC employees get their extended over 3 yrs?
And they arent going to RIOT?
@1: yellow pooling in the eco-friendly urinals, but that appears to be because maintenance doesn’t bother to fix them
somewhere in a bar, 2 bofa employees are closing out a tab… “oh. you came from MER? guess you’re buying”
What if you get paid in bottles of Chivas?
@6 – protest by surreptitiously dropping a few packets of oatmeal in the porcelain. The long-lived hysterics are certainly worth the effort.
I would just head over to a PayDay and get the advance on my bonus. Only suckers wait…
Gee, think this has something to do with the Thain departure? There’s no way he could be here when this announcement came out.
wow
BoA employees should be unionized. And a strike should be in order.
They claim you can bet your $50k + deferral for a chance to win a full cash bonus this year.
You only need to defeat “Through the Fire and Flames” on Expert. Think I might try for it.
Is this to encourage retention? Or save cash? Any way the 2010 and 11 instalments can be withheld? I.e. any clawback provisions?
so they all now become BOA unsecured creditors….
Idiots in HR missed one very big problem. MER employees who see what awaits them next year. So even if they got paid this year (in advance thank you very much), why risk staying and getting serves this shit sandwich next year? Everyone from either side who can leave will. Great franchise my ass.
The key phrase was bonuses greater than $50k.
The average BoA employee makes less than $90k vs $247k for Merrill.
There are about 6 people in Charlotte that this will affect.
What about the the BoA’ers in NYC? Well, they’re already screwed.
Reminds me of the comedian who long ago said, “Imagine how screwed you’d be if you lived in a mobile home during a tornado. Come to think of it, if you’re living in a mobile home you’re kinda already screwed.”
The key phrase was bonuses greater than $50k.
The average BoA employee makes less than $90k vs $247k for Merrill.
There are about 6 people in Charlotte that this will affect.
What about the the BoA’ers in NYC? Well, they’re already screwed.
Reminds me of the comedian who long ago said, “Imagine how screwed you’d be if you lived in a mobile home during a tornado. Come to think of it, if you’re living in a mobile home you’re kinda already screwed.”
Bonus or trip to Davos?
Well you could argue that these people are lucky compared to those BofA research analysts on “guarantees” – they apparently are to receive 100% restricted stock and zero cash.
It’s going to be interesting to see what the people who got shitcanned recently will get for bonus, too.
There are going to be law suits flying – all of which will be great for the future of the mighty BAC/MER franchise.
PS @18/19 BofA has a lot of bank tellers who bring down the average wage per employee.
Does this count as more of a “pwn3d” or a “fail” situation?
@1 It is miserable. I am very close to the situation esp. sales & trading. There were no bonuses last year but a lot of people stuck around on the promise that they would pay this year. No bonus this year, of course, and they’ve all been fired and replaced with Merrill people – who are all trying to leave.
much better off if you get fired since it all vests immediately.
also, get this….the deferred cash earns tbills while you wait.
you guys SUCK, this was posted to you last week and you failed to act on it. slow news. SLOW!
The 3rd floor at OBP just walked out
@ 26 – for lunch?
@ 26 confirmed or rumour? is OBP One Bank Plaza?
@26 – post the layoffs, the third floor at One Bryant Park has pretty much looked like this anyhow…
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_87NnYBM8OQQ/R9LITeRMaRI/AAAAAAAABtA/P_i0e_0c5M4/s320/tumbleweed_ghost_town.jpg
28 OBP: One Bryant Park
What’s on the 3rd floor?
@31 – I think 3rd floor is equity trading or fixed income trading
80% of equity sales and trading got smoked last Thursday, leaving a lot of empty seats on a huge floor.
A lot of fixed income is also on the third floor – they have fared somewhat better.
@31, carpet, some chairs and desks, but that’s not important right now
lol @ 18.
listen retards,
“wall street” is fucked for the next 4 years, maybe forever.
this is all part of an organized campaign by obama and co to cap “salaries” in banking to government pay grade.
do you think it’s coincidence that the new white house froze wages above 100k? that seems to be the magic number for these folks. and if you make more than that, they’ll take it in taxes.
and before you smart guy analysts dsimiss me as a crazy fool, i’ve got an MBA from the same schools you do and i was an MD at a bulge bracket. i got lucky. i admit it. luck based on timing, oh, and i was able to retire comfy @ 37.
you could see the trap coming. too many people fighting over a penny from the same dollar.
…replaced with Merrill people – who are all trying to leave….
to go where? the “jump onto another ship” strategy doesn’t work when there are no other ships.
BoFA brags that they don’t like to pay anyone, including their lawyers, more than 100k.
you guys understand this, right?
100k in NC is huge. not as huge as it used to be, but going right back to huge.
“You predict, I report.”
- C. Gasbag
OBP = Deathstar
That 60 minutes special on Lewis seems more and more STUPID everytime I think about it…
@36 – leave to go to regionals. When I say trying to leave I mean the producers. They can go to a commission shop and keep 40% of what they bring in. The bulge brackets are over – at least for now.
Sham Wow is a winner
http://www.cnbc.com/id/28873174
41 is 100% correct.
you’re going to see incredible growth of boutiques the next 10 years.
if you guys think you’re so smart and worth so much, go prove it. produce.
@43
I agree, that’s what should be happening.
Lets not forget the real people at BOFA with real families that don’t live in mansions or fancy apartments with a house in the hamptons and a mistress on the side – the admin assistants, the marketing folks and the techs – no one gives a crap about them and they are hurting.
@ 41. The Bulge Brackets are dead..forever. The entire symmetry of Wall St is changed.
yep 46.
i shutter when i think of what’s going to happen to nyc real estate the next 5 years.
@34 – nice reference to Airplane, I believe.
Also, Congratulations to ShamWow on that come from behind victory. I highly recommend the interview with Vince at cnbc.com. A true American success story.
@34 Hilarious!
Smaller firms like Sterne Agee are hiring staff from the bulge brackets with guaranteed pay packages. They are even offering quarterly (cash) bonus payments to big deal sell-side analysts.
type A’ers wanted to work @ MS and ML the last 10 years because it impressed the folks back in their hometowns.
but now that everyone is making fun of these banks, who wants to work at them anyway.
you guys do realize that wall street is the laughingstock of america right now, right?
all those boutiques must have been understaffed all these years….let’s make room for the d-bags from the bulge brackets….exactly what they are not about.
producers will be welcome, but how many valuable producers are there? more importantly how many positions are there for these producers? if you think simply finding new work at the boutiques is the solution, you are delusional.
35 is spot on the money.
As an ex-Merrill Employee (left on my own volition) I am sickened by what Thain did. He set the relationship up for disaster by causing envy on the side of BofA, and 16 billion dollars towards bonuses while knowing you would need that much in bail outs.
What’s worse is that Merrill’s bonus pool went down by a measly 6% this year. However, most of people I know (AVP to Director) saw their bonuses go down by 50%. If the stats are right, the executives got even a higher bonus this year.
What is ultimately fair and will decrease the friction between existing BofA employees and the incoming Herd, is for Ken to favor BofA employees over Merrill employees in next year’s bonus pool. Not great if you’re coming from ML, but it is fair.
Not to sound like a broken record but, it really burns my biscuit to hear about his renovations and then to hear what he did with Bonuses this year. Have we not had enough reaming from the Wall Street executives this year Mr. Thain? You had to throw 16 Bill at bonuses; mostly to your cronies? While we the tax paying public bail BofA out for your mistakes? Shame Mr. Thain, Shame!
Now there, I feel much better…
@41, 43 – couldn’t be more right. Recently joined a boutique after 5 years at a bulge bracket. The firm has increased by a third in size, with all former bb bankers, including two former bsd’s. Found out 08 bonuses from 1st yr associates here who just got paid, and while it’s a little lower than previous years such as 07 and 06 at bb, it’s still well over six figures and higher than many of my former colleagues (at least the ones that still had jobs).
Advice to all – move on over to boutiques while you still can, money is great, and culture and perks are very good (similar to partnership days back before banks became public).
@35 – calling BS.
While it is possible to get to MD at a bulge bracket Ibank by the time you are in your mid 30s no way you will save enough to retire by 37 unless you were posting huge returns on investments outside of your regular comp and you also planned to move to Kansas (or you have a trust fund). Even if you do get to MD and produce for a few years, a large % of compensation is in stock and deferred for up to 5 years depending on the institution. Not saying you didn’t retire, but if you did you are misrepresenting the source of your savings.
This merger is awful.
So now MER people get their bonuses advanced but see first-hand the fuckery that BofA embraces.
And this is going to help them retain the best employees how?
And before you say, “there is nowhere to go,” let me tell you there is ALWAYS somewhere to go if you’re that good. Boutiques and prop shops are going to be poaching these fuckers left and right.
53 You need to face up to the fact that ML wholesale was always a joke. It was always about retail. Which the “financial crisis” made crystal clear. Thain did nothing.
@53:
Get your fact right first before you begin ranting like crazy.
ML paid $ 4B in total for bonus (41% down from last year). The total Wall Street bonus is $18 B this year. Where did you get that $16 B Merrill bonus from ?
57
The point of my post was not to blame Thain for the fall of Rome. He has no blood on his hands from that. Nor do I wish to dispute the split between Institutional and Retail revenues. I am not of expertise to delve into such matters.
Rather, I wished to point out that his lack of fiduciary responsibility was glaring and is causing consternation:
1) Tax payers would not have needed to provide an added $20 Billion in bail out if Thain would have cut bonuses in a responsible way, rather than hording it for his cronies
2) A worse sentiment on the street towards Wall Street due to his unbelievable good taste in decor
3) Causing more money to be sucked away from TARP.
We are in such dire times and this Turd, this excuse for a Human, this reject, takes money and throws it at his cronies when knowing FULL well that it will be replenished from the TARP handouts.
Okay, breathe, breathe… I gotta go… I’m getting those palpitations again.
hi 55, it’s 35 again.
i don’t want to have a back and forth. remember, i said i went to college in manhattan and we were all interning from freshmen year forward at firms like kidder peabody and brown brothers, etc.
so by the time i graduated, i already had 3 years experience.
like i said, it was dumb luck more than anything. one of my frat bros was a full partner at spear leeds at 31, and when gs took them over they had to pay him. he built their pb business with 5 million dollar hedgefunds.
remember, i’m crediting a lot of success to timing. because of my age, i was paying 150 bucks a square foot for my residence. 15 years later, it’s 1500. the game changed here. i really feel sorry for a lot of younger guys. too much competition over the same dollar.
or you could think i’m making all this up and call still call bullshit. i don’t care.
more importantly, is anyone else as excited as i am that i don’t have to watch toothless brits trekking around SoHo with shopping bags full of booty?
the queens accent is gone.
@35 – do you really think finishing a top 10 mba program makes you smart? oh so i get it – now we should all listen to YOU mr.retried @37. i went to columbia and trust me-there were plenty of retards just like you there as well. clearly you are insecure. really its just lame that you felt the need to qualify yourself.
So let me get this straight: this is all about the new administrations plan to move away from capitalism and cap salaries at 100k? seriously. save the conspiracy theories for your ‘retirement’ community.
http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry3850.html
so do you think you get 75k, the first 50k is paid out and the 25k deferred or the whole 75k is deferred?
50 – thanks for update. I too will help my fellow Wall Street brethren. It’s bad out there, but it’s not completely dead, there are still a few opportunities to get back in the game. The following boutiques are still hiring (at least I believe so) -
Beringea, Canaccord Adams, Chicago Investment Group, Harris Williams, Jordan Edmiston, Moelis & Co, Pali, Scott-Macon, Stifel Nicolaus, W.Y. Campbell
Don’t ask me how I know, I just do. But this was as of a few weeks ago, and I imagine these firms are getting inundated with resumes, so get them in.
No 64, it is all deferred. And, if you get laid off or fired then zero….
The message has been sent. BofA investment bank, we dont want you. Helllooo ML investment bank.
@55, poster 37 “retired” to have kids. Her hubby brings home the bacon.
No 64, it is all deferred. And, if you get laid off or fired then zero….
The message has been sent. BofA investment bank, we dont want you. Helllooo ML investment bank.
No 64, it is all deferred. And, if you get laid off or fired then zero….
The message has been sent. BofA investment bank, we dont want you. Helllooo ML investment bank.
crap, sorry for the multi post…darn browser :)
hi 62, it’s 35 here.
i already admitted i’m not all that smart, at least compared to a lot of the folks who worked for me.
in fact, one of the problems with this industry the last few years is that the bosses didn’t really understand what the hell was going on. i’m serious.
i feel no need to qualify myself. i assure you i’m not lame.
sorry you don’t appreciate some different insight.
Not to kill the buzz, but these places that are hiring: I’m gonna guess they’re more than willing to take in a guy that’s been producing and can bring in business. Exactly the person who is holding their job and already being decently compensated. They don’t want the ones who’ve been tossed.
72 its true that to get a good job you need to have a good job. But at this point you have created two classes of banker. One that got paid a big bone and then the BAC guy who is “getting” a bonus and that will surely be terminated Feb 14, 2010 thus avoiding payout.
It is a clear cut way of saying “read between the lines”
all i have to say is i’m sick of the news networks criminalizing bankers – my fiancee just got screwed out of a bonus – this after a full year of not seeing him during the week because he comes home after midnight AND having to hope he doesn’t work both days every weekend. WTF. he spent a year studying for the gmats, getting into a top program, competing for a spot at a bank…all for this? i don’t know about thain or lewis but my baby worked hard for his bonus and i just want the media to stop making it sound like they just put a bunch of people in cubes and decided they should get bonus because they are special – not because they actually earned it. the salary most 1st year bankers make-per hour-they should have taken the $19/$20 teller jobs – they would basically take home the same amount without having student loans to pay back. fuck you lewis – you disloyal moron. you should have followed your own advice and gotten out of the ibanking world-clearly you have no idea how to run an investment bank. douche.
hi 67, it’s 35.
i’m actually “the hubby”. i don’t mean to rub you the wrong way – sorry.
if i were young and smart, i’d go into health care at this point.
demographics, baby!
@74 – Didn’t you mean to post that rant on dabagirls? Go cry elsewhere. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/nyregion/28daba.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&pagewanted=all
that or energy 76. The reality is that there are a lot easier things than this for half price…
question?
does the deferred part accrue? or is this just another sleazy way to lock employees into one way contracts?
@35 do you mean Yahoo! Finance’s definition of retired?
79, its actually a mechanism to just not pay it at all. If you get severed prior to Feb 15 2010, you do not get $$$. This is well after the ML integration is done. How many BofA people will be left (voluntary or not) after this?
Also, how will BofA people work with the ML people across the table knowing you got $0 and they got their money?
@74 jeez what are you doing here? Even among the bankers, you are not going to get sympathy here.
DB is going to hell. I miss the days when DB was about finance talk. Short DB.
no 80, i mean your definition.
Well said 74…but your point faded with the bitter ending.
Former Charlotte BofA guy here…
I actually applaud Thain for paying his people. That’s something that Ken has not bothered to do.
To all of you complaining about the use of TARP money for bonuses, you’re missing something. As stressed by 74, banking is a painful job. You have to pay bankers to tolerate such pain. If you stop paying them, they go away. If they go away, the bank’s disappear regardless of how much TARP money you throw at them.
If Obama and Co want to cap compensation (Hell, even McCain made such silly comments), then to be fair they should also cap the work week, right? 35 hours/week and 8 weeks vacation sound good? Yay CHANGE! uhhh…
Well said 74…but your point faded with the bitter ending.
Former Charlotte BofA guy here…
I actually applaud Thain for paying his people. That’s something that Ken has never bothered to do.
To all of you complaining about the use of TARP money for bonuses, you’re missing something. As stressed by 74, banking is a painful job. You have to pay bankers to tolerate such pain. If you stop paying them, they go away. If they go away, the bank’s disappear regardless of how much TARP money you throw at them.
If Obama and Co want to cap compensation (Hell, even McCain made such silly comments), then to be fair they should also cap the work week, right? 35 hours/week and 8 weeks vacation sound good? Yay CHANGE! uhhh…
72 – that’s a good point, but that’s more at the senior level. i would imagine at the junior level, these banks understand that many are being laid off as a statistic and due to no fault of their own, and these boutiques would gladly look at an analyst or associate with 2 or more years experience at a bb and had gone through a training program. but i could be completely wrong.
84 hit the nail square on the head.
if they want to cap earnings, then hours need to be capped as well.
you can see where this is all going.
anyone who doesn’t is a retard or lame.
Well said 74…but your point faded with the bitter ending.
Former Charlotte BofA guy here…
I actually applaud Thain for paying his people. That’s something that Ken has never bothered to do.
To all of you complaining about the use of TARP money for bonuses, you’re missing something. As stressed by 74, banking is a painful job. You have to pay bankers to tolerate such pain. If you stop paying them, they go away. If they go away, the bank’s disappear regardless of how much TARP money you throw at them.
If Obama and Co want to cap compensation (Hell, even McCain made such silly comments), then to be fair they should also cap the work week, right? 35 hours/week and 8 weeks vacation sound good? Yay CHANGE! uhhh…
74 and 85 Are you both for real? Doesn’t matter how much time youve put in or stress you swallowed. If the revenues don’t follow, you don’t get paid this year, beyond a small amount for just showing up. That’s just how the game works and is the reason why, when it pays off, it pays off real big. People want this to be heads I win, tails I dont loose. It doesnt work that way.
Or 87 a different class of folks (that will be happy with no bonus) need to work those jobs. Especially if this is going the social route. If you limit the upside, then the smart people will do something else.
I like the ideas around good talent moving to boutiques. Makes much more sense than bulge bracket that cannot manage risk…
Sorry for the repeated posting…stupid browser.
@84:
“To all of you complaining about the use of TARP money for bonuses, you’re missing something. As stressed by 74, banking is a painful job. You have to pay bankers to tolerate such pain. If you stop paying them, they go away. If they go away, the bank’s disappear regardless of how much TARP money you throw at them.”
Sorry pal, but as Charles de Gaulle once said, the graveyards are full of indispensable men…
89, if that was the case then the ML folks would be in the same boat. BofA took money to basically underwrite the retention and performance bonus for ML.
The BofA mgmt has a choice on who to pay. The BofA staff has a choice of where to work.
The underlying message here is that mgmt has made their choice.
Its like buying a V8 engine for your V6 mustang. Only one engine can fit under the hood….
It just sucks when you only have five cylinders as friends instead of seven….
um, 93, mustangs come with v6′s and v8′s.
@89. You are right. The big bucks get paid for you personally taking the risk that this might not be a good year. The past 25 years have been, in general, awesome so plenty of people could make their nut and be happy.
There are a few lean years ahead, and so you must suffer to make your way to the good times (or, to make up for the good times you already enjoyed 2001-2007).
@74: your fiance is not “entitled” to anything for working hard. My husband (I work too) came home very late for basically all of 2007; market fell apart at year-end and he got a token bonus – all for not seeing his kids. And if one year he gets paid bank for doing a couple of big transactions, but they happen at year-end so he got to goof off Jan-Sept – will you say he should be putting in more time, or that he “earned” it because of the hard times in 2008-2009?
If you get paid the bucks and have unlimited upside, you must take the risk. If you want to get paid but take no risk, you are then capped on the upside. Your choice.
One word for you teenagers, just one word:
Plastics!
@95 – The point was more about how the banking industry is being demonized as a bunch of fat cats who do not work/earn the money they make. Oh, and that Lewis is a douche.
89, 84 here again…
I think you’re failing to grasp several things. Sure, bankers should be paid much less is a down year. The problem at BofA is that comp isn’t great in good years either.
Regardless, this isn’t just a down year. This is a game changing moment. If the populist/socialist approach wins, as it did in the recent election, bankers will never be paid again. It will be the end of banking as we know it, and I don’t think that’s a good thing.
The biggest issue facing us now is liquidity in the capital markets. Relentless personal attacks by the media and politicians on the hardworking people that make our banking system work (greed and abuses aside) are not the solution. Let capitalism work. Government interference caused the latest mess, not the much reported, yet false notion, that there wasn’t enough regulation.
“top talent may leave”
i hear McDonald’s is hiring.
94 – not in the same car idiot. the poster meant you have to choose one or the other under your hood.
I love Detroit muscle.
@98: “Let capitalism work”
If it worked, MER, MS, GS, BAC, JPM, C, etc. etc. would all be bankrupt. It is only BECAUSE OF government interference that they are still around, n’est-ce pas?
101, wrong again. The govt put out an agenda a la Greenspan to make lending available to everyone. Both with low rates as well as directives to lend to minorities.
They were trying to drive capital from the crushed internet banking to something new. So the govt did infact mess with the markets as the prime mover….
The same bubble will be in commodities as the hyperinflation hits. There will be govt regulation passed then and so on ….
@102: are you high? Did AIG lend to minorities? Do you know what bank’s “bad” assets are? Do you know by what MULTIPLE they exceed banks’ equity? And guess what – they are not exclusively mortgages! Take a look at bad credit card debt alone.
Ay yi yi, never mind, if that is what you think, you have never seriously studied a financial institution’s 10-K.
hi 100.
93 needs to learn how to write better. that v6 / v8 analogy made no sense, and the cylinder analogy made less.
can you translate that on as well?
Not high, just getting screwed out of half my money.
AIG basically provided insurance in the form of CDS. When their credit was downgraded, they needed to post collateral they did not have. This was triggered by subprime. So think of it this way. The crisis is the dynamite and subprime merely the fuse….the govt continued their interference from there.
This is not the proper forum for me to take you to school on the events leading to subprime.
Mustang can only operate with one engine. BAS = V6, MER = V8. Ken bought a V8 and wants to swap out his V6.
The poster appears to be commenting that MER is meant to replace BAS, not complement it. Low bonuses at BAS could be a means to an end.
okay 104. Lets take it really slow. Your mustang (BAC/Cntrywide) has an engine. As someone pointed out the frame will accept either a V6 or a V8. It currently has a V6 (the existing BAC investment bank). There can only be one engine in the car at a time. Ken who drives this mustang decided it was time for a new engine. He found a V8 called ML.
The point about the cylinders is if you have five friends that are cylinders like you, then you are in the V6 engine that is getting tossed. If you have seven friends, then you are the ML V8 and its a happy day….
I am sorry I used abstract concepts to make a point….
I think a large part of the issue is most people outside of finance associate investment bankers with the crises at hand and the root of the losses at banks. This is simply not accurate. While bankers (I mean those working in M&A, capital markets and client/sector coverage) may have convinced clients to use leverage to make acquisitions or helped sell IPOs of companies with little earnings, the clients/investors themselves should have understood the risks involved (unless there was fraud of course which is a completely different issue). Investment bankers had nothing to do with many of the risks taken by their institutions (other then possibly the hold positions on some leveraged loans, hung bridges, etc) and certainly were not involved in the mortgage mess, securitization, asinine carry trades, etc.
In fact, while 2008 was much worse then 2007, it wasn’t that bad a year historically speaking (for example, M&A volume was down about 40% y/y from a record year) and many groups made $ even after reserving for compensation (including bonus) costs. It does seem that some banks (MS, CS, JPM and of course ML) have paid their bankers at a relatively fair level given the market; so it absolutely makes sense for people to gripe about the amount they worked if they are not compensated. Unfortunately, banking compensation is not only dictated by the amount your group/bank has made, but how much a bank HAS TO pay you to retain talent (if so desired) and these days that isn’t much. But if a bank starts to go down this road talent will leave or prepare to leave as soon as an opportunity materializes (whenever that happens).
Any word on FMAP June 07 Class Pinnacle Award winner’s Bonus?
now only if i could incorporate the v6/v8 ala mustang analogy into my pitchbook things would start looking up
sorry that you suck so bad at analogies, metaphors or abstract concepts as you refer to your own shitty writing, 107.
way to attempt damage control, BAC official @111.
Everyone needs to look at these compensation structures as sign of how things will be for awhile. I think there will still be opportunities for the absolute top performers to get paid, and some of the smarter shops will make trades to upgrade their talent.
For the general person you will almost have to assume zero for 2010. If 100-150k salary is not enough to justify the hours, lack of vacation, stress levels etc. – it is time to start thinking about a career change.
For me it isn’t worth it. Always said I wanted to teach, coach basketball and have summers off. Are the headhunters for easy highschool teaching jobs?
Seriously. The Mustang analogy sucked hard.
111 I am sorry your IQ is not high enough to comprehend what I meant when just about everyone else on the board got it right away.
Enjoy flipping burgers. While I am pissed about missing my bonus, the silver lining is that I am not you.
I’m not sure about the engine analogy, but that cylinder analogy was definitely lame.
I bet 115′s IQ is 20 points higher than any other person who posted a comment here.
If you seriously did not understand the Mustang analogy, you are a complete moron and should be posting on janitor blogs.
Now, if I can only decide between a 2009 Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger to blow my huge bonus on for my 1st months lease.
If they paid an actual decent salary for someone living in new york and raising a family, the lack of a bonus wouldn’t be such a big deal. I would love it if I got a better salary and the bonus was truly a bonus. I’ve worked at BAC and JPM and their salaries are shitty – qualified people wouldn’t take those jobs for those wages. For $150k, I can teach, work for the government, be an accountant, whatever. And to add insult to injury, I work in a counter cyclical business so we all had a great year and are getting nothing.
where the heck are you teaching for $150K or even working for the government? All government jobs are based on years as well as achievement and no Teachers I know makes $150, period
Looks like it is “not entirely accurate”
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN2848115520090128?rpc=44
Perhaps its bonus over $50K that is deferred.
College level teaching. Finance director in government. Working at the Fed. Multinationals like the IDB. All these jobs pay that much in New York. If not $150, then $125 with benefits. $150k is not a high salary and opens a lot of other options.
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Ken didn’t buy a V8. He bought a 10 speed. ML is a sh*tstorm.
nassau and suffolk co. police officers average over 115k per year + benefits.
when you factor in the value of their pensions, their comp is excess of 150k.
and they get a gun!
@68- you are not entirely correct. trust me. i know.
@126- what do you know?
5yrs after college, have lived within the means and saved a little over 600k (not much) cash. I only feel lucky and graceful at these difficult times for being able to work at wall street for a few yrs. Financially speaking, it is still much better relative to my age group in other industries.
@128 yeah Dude, 5 years after college, so you made 125k average each year after taxes, rent and all living expenses.
No one on this board is buying it. That is awesome? How do you average 300k a year before taxes cash, with your undergrad degree.
Fucking piker.
hehehehee oh shit, y’all white boys are full of it.
My man #128, oh yeah shit me too brother. I strut around in a fur coat and drive an old school Rolls Royce. I kick it real old school like Walt Frazier bitches!
You got 600k saved up, yeah ok bitch.
i don’t think it’s that outlandish. If you go directly analyst to associate, you could pull down that kind of cash (600k would be backloaded on 07′s bonus of maybe 200-250). Or if hedge fund, also possible in 5 yrs.
@131 after taxes, NYC rents, going out, nice suits, then assuming it was all cash and not some stock.
Plus 2003 was stub pay for analyst, math doesn’t add up.
@132 all I’m saying is it’s possible. i agree NYC is expensive, but not EVERYONE lives like a gordon gecko wanna-be. I know personally one guy who worked for Merrill trading bonds for 10 years, drove the same volvo, pulled down one piece of hot ass at a time (4 or 5 over the 10-year period but all hot, not blowing cash on party sluts), wasn’t the baller star-of-the-party lap-dance guy, took nice but reasonable vacations, and then semi-retired with about $10 million in the bank. For some of you that’s not enough, but it ain’t pocket change. Not everybody on wall st. is at scores every night. Maybe it’s fun but most of them don’t remember half of it and then end up with no savings.
okay this is 68, I will bite, what do you know? Besides what Scott Silvestri is saying is “not entirely correct”
@131, I know the ranking in investment banking. College grads get the $80K treatment. No way in hell that he “saved” 600K. They do not give books to people like that.
Think of it like being a grad student. The Managing Director is the tenured prof that gets the grant. His name gets put on the research even if you did it….
Its just the biz.
@68 makes a good point, but a lot of bofa people didn’t get fired last week when both MER and BAC made all their cuts. no reason not to fire people then, when the firing was good, if you want them to go anyway.
68 here, what makes you think this is the only round of layoffs? 35K jobs over 3 years….and if no bonus, no pressure to get them out by the 15th….
The people at BofA are lucky they are getting anything. Thanks to Ken Lewis’ bone-headed acquisition of bankrupt ML they have been dragged down into the whirlpool just like everyone else.
Part of me is glad that bonuses are still being paid, since they are such a huge component of NYC’s tax base. However, the sense of entitlement that some people on Wall Street still cling to, especially given how bad the global economy really is, is unreal. $100K is not enough to live in a Park Avenue co-op and eat at Nobu every night, but it is still a great salary, especially for young people fresh out of college or grad school. Keep in mind that many brilliant people work long hours in this same city as researchers, teachers, administrators, pediatricians, etc. for far less on average than what a second-year analyst makes on Wall Street.
If they want to beef up the BofA bonus, perhaps they could do a clawback on some of the bonuses received by Bank of America’s board over the past several years. For good measure, the employees could split up any money from the yard sale of John Thain’s overpriced commodes and trash cans.
@138, I guess you don’t live in or anywhere near NYC. You are right $100K is nice….for someone in idaho or kentucky. That will get you a very nice double wide indeed.
If you even remotely knew how expensive NY/NJ is you would just STFU for speaking out of school.
$100K after NYC taxes (thats city & state for those keeping score at home) is about $60K left over. If cheap apt rent in NYC is $2600/mo, well that over half your nut right there.
Lets say you are sly and decide to live in someplace crummy like Strong Island. Well after paying for your commute (which will average from hour and a half to two) you never ever get to see your kids. Oh and you are still paying close to $2K a month. Thats for a really really nasty place you would not kennel your dog in.
Don’t get me started on all of your other expenses….
Look, I know getting sympathy on a board full of “internet tough guys” is a stretch, but at least know what you are talking about before interrupting the adults
@139. First, I live in Manhattan in a “good” building in a “good” neighborhood only a few blocks from Central Park (and south of 96th Street). $2600/month for a one-bedroom is not “cheap apartment rent”. Convert the $2600 one bedroom into a two-bedroom, share with a friend, and spend $1300/month – THAT is more economical. Alternatively, move to one of the outer boroughs or a less-expensive part of Manhattan (no need for a Metro-North pass if you live in Inwood or Clinton Hill).
Second, having grown up in the tri-state area I know how far $100K can go in both the city and the suburbs, especially if one is young (as I mentioned in my comment). Obviously New York is expensive relative to the red states you mentioned, but it is downright cheap compared to London, Tokyo, Geneva, or other comparable cities for young bankers. Don’t get me started on how many people in the Big Apple were spending money like water and living way above their means when they were pulling down starting salaries as associates and analysts. Working in midtown I would see HR interns who making chicken change buying lunch every day and going to Starbucks multiple times. After work they would blow whatever else they made on bars, clubs and mindless consumption. If a single person cannot make two ends meet in this city while making more than twice the national per capita income, then the fault lies squarely on his/her shoulders, not on NYC for being expensive.
Third, having worked on Wall Street, I can tell anyone willing to listen that half the people there deserve nowhere near the salaries and bonuses that they pull in. I will admit that there are some brilliant people who contribute and make real profits. They deserve to be well rewarded (and still are). But I find it hard to justify why thousands of mortgage securitizers and brain-dead “risk managers” who piloted the global economy into the abyss (among others) should suddenly have the audacity to complain when they are given ANY sort of bonus for a job crappily done.
Finally, remember that thousands of families live and survive on much less than $100K within this city (not Boise or Louisville) with all sorts of “other expenses” like children. Some of them move to Forest Hills or Riverdale, where you can have the suburban experience and still be a subway/ferry ride away from the office. I’m not saying it’s easy, but people have found a way to get by on less. Hopefully the BofAers can take a page from their book and make do with what they have.
@74, sorry to say buut it sounds like your boyfriend is real retard… studied a year for GMAT? gimme a phucking break, he should notbe in this business in the first place
@74, sorry to say but it sounds like your boyfriend is a real retard… studied a year for GMAT? gimme a phucking break, he should notbe in this business in the first place
@128 actually iit’s possible i worked in ML and i knew one analyst on conv arb desk who made almost 0.5MM in a year being just two years out of college…
BofA PB are still apparently getting bonuses. From my friend’s recent FB status:
XX will Celebrate tonight my big Bonus on the Trading Floor of the NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE, with my Management and Bankers (Open Bar, Buffet & Live Music)!
What a retard to actually post this!
@144 – you think, just maybe, your friend is joking?
Nope – this guy loves to flaunt everything and anything about that godforsaken place. It’s quite sad, really.
there is no bofa pb; they sold it to bnp last year.
145 Its obvious he’s joking. The tip off is “on the trading floor of the NYSE”. I guess anything is possible for a price. But that venue strikes me as the equivalent of Schwartzman’s 60th birthday celebration at the armory, not where a FB person would get a few friends together. 144: tell me you don’t work in finance, otherwise missing that one is really bad.
Well, I suggest that you at least quietly downgrade him to the “acquaintance” bucket.
Also, as someone who is waiting to hear on his 2008 BAC “bonus”, I would appreciate more detail if you can get it.
144 I wonder how many people are going to show up. Imagine trying to get onto the NYSE floor? Its like Fort Knox. There could be a shooting there tonight.
147 Maybe Private Banking? (US Trust)
For BAC bonus this year, a special treat; they will get to kick their new MER colleagues in the nuts
BAC Charlotte employees will get discounted tickets for the Coca-Cola 600, and a framed copy of Steele Alphin’s “Back on the Farm” explaination to the angry shareholder.
***Tickets subject to clawback if you are fired before the race
Apparently BAC bonus announcements are delayed until tomorrow. Probably because management needs to trump UBS and prove that BAC remains the shittiest place to work on Wall Street.
Which might put a downer on the (joke) party at the NYSE.
152, I will take that. Payable tomorrow?
You are all losers!!
Get a real job!!
@ 89, nice use of Poison lyrics to make your point. love it.
Only 2% of you are worth a crap. The rest of you are losers who won’t EVER get a job over 100K again.
Get used to it losers!
Only 2% of you are worth a crap. The rest of you are losers who won’t EVER get a job over 100K again.
Get used to it losers!
misery loves company
One man’s bonus is another man’s economic stimulus. Get ready commrads – it was fun wasn’t it?
Lewis has himself in a trap, since the world is looking over HIS shoulder about the bonuses paid out at ML in Dec. He’d like to minimize and defer payouts on the BAC side to avoid more scrutiny, but he’s going to lose his IB base if he screws his own people in deference to the company he rescued.
Who in their right mind would want to stick around and work for the ML team that is now largely in charge and sitting on their paid out bonuses. Do you really think anyone plans to stick around hoping it will all work out if they just slave away for the next 3 years.
I’d like to think the delay in announcing bonuses is because BAC Management figured out they need to do something more even-handed, but that would be W-a-a-a-y too logical from what we’ve seen lately.
162, there is nothing to be done at this point. Lewis has already made the decision. The delay is in printing the new bonus statements. Even Obama came out today and said “Don’t do it.” BAC can easily point to UBS and what they did as a good example.
And yes, you are right, the IB base will leave. This “there is no where to go” talk is just horse hockey. What you do have to understand is that this is largely by design. BAC has a new investment bank and they elected to ensure that they would be taken care of (remember the retention bonus talk).
Senior Mgmt have made their decision in awarding most of the business leadership roles to ML folks. Now all that is left is to finish out the transtion work this year and sluff off the rest of the BAS folks just before that first one third gets paid out to them.
Nice and tidy…
163 – most cogent explaination that I heard, and spot on. Everybody needs to roll with the punches and quite the whining. No One has been spared pain during this reset. If you made some bad personal decisions regarding your financial commitments, be a big boy.
You’re both right. Some of the BAC groups did good business last year, and are left with little more than shallow promises and the prospects of another year of hell.
I wonder if BAC realizes the fallout they’ll create on the ML side, as well. BAC is the new master and will be controlling the comp package next time. Now that we’ve seen how much they (don’t) value commitment and loyalty, why stick around?
I’ve got my bonus in my pocket, and I feel bad for the guys on the BAC side. But, the longer I stick around, the more I’m sinking into same trap.
115 and 163 here. I think if you are a BAS dude, you wait for the message tomorrow. Graciously thank your manager for your job and get your paperwork out there. If you are in NYC there are plenty of other investment banks. Now it may take you six months to find something, so be it. In the interim you have your health insurance and such for wifey and you are not freaking your family out by quitting. It’s much easier to find a job when you have one.
If you live in Charlotte, all is not lost. It’s true that that place is fixing to be a ghost town. You are going to need to relo, but again, take your time and call your shot. Medical and Energy are hiring. So are a ton of mortgage brokers in Dallas believe it or not.
All that is happening is that you are basically being given a year of your base salary to find a job.
Now if your base is 10-30% of your total comp (you are a $1.5-3MM guy), be angry. Get it out of your system and move on. You got screwed, but you know what? Nut cancer is worse. Hopefully you have a few years of money saved for a rainy day. You will need to look at taking a serious cut to be marketable or you are going to be working for “free” for the forseeable future. Find a boutique and see if you can wait out the storm.
I feel for the BAS folks. You are not going to get much sympathy from the mouthbreathers and “mortals”, but take heart. You are the best and the brightest and cream floats to the top. Sometimes its two steps forward, one step back.
@53
This thread is about bankers (explanation: this means “investment bankers”)…meaning, not people like you. Get lost. Your numbers are wrong and your post reveals that you’re not a banker. Some ex-third floor scum or the like who think they “work on Wall Street”
I have worked and still working in Wall Street for over 12 years. I got paid alot of money and sometimes I really felt guilty about it. Yes, I worked long hours (min. 12-16) and Yes I worked on weekends, but I really enjoyed what I did. The first year I entered Wall Street, during the 90′s, I was paid $150K Salary and additional bonus of $100K. After the first year, I was recruited by another firm and my salary increased to $175K and my first year bonus was $500K. I suspect, in my 12 years in Wall Street, I made around $7-10m and believe me, I really didn’t deserve it since I would have worked for a quarter of that amount. I really enjoyed my job (Institutional Sales) and I was really good at it. I only have a BA in History and Economics and never went to Biz School, so I was lucky to even get the job. Basically if you had “people” skills, anyone could have been successful since all we had to do was read research and sell it. I was definitely overpaid and it is a truely sad day that all the IB banks are gone now. It’s not all about money as someone would think..it’s about doing your job honestly, loving and doing it with passion. That is the difference..people don’t have passion anymore. Good Luck to all the people who lost their jobs and I know there are lots of smart people on the street. I have the fortunate opportunity to work with some fantastic people in the past. I have worked at 4 different bluge bracket firms and it was a great experience.
168: Can you really say with a straight face that you ‘loved the work’? Its great that you made a ton of money doing it.
But exactly which part of staying up until 2am, getting yelled at constantly, doing mindless and endless pitches, selling stuff like a used car salesman and jumping up and down to get your client’s attention did you like?
@168 – “”and Yes I worked on weekends”.
Does golf REALLY count?
Bonus day today, if you can call it that. Glad to see that a top-5 MBA entitles one to hourly pay that is one-third of the average GM-worker (need I mention that both BofA and GM received gov’t aid?). You know it’s bad when your company has to hire extra security for comp day — unbelievable. Good news: associates got all cash. Bad news: that means $0 – $50k, and there’s no jobs for all the job-seekers (which of course, would be everyone at BofA and MER).
@167
Guy, it is people like you that give all of us a bad name. Drop the attitude and quit being such a prick all the time. You aren’t as important as you think you are, and to be honest every real banker out there thinks guys like you are faggots.
169 Read carefully. Institutional Sales – they’re not the people there till 2 am. That part of the fun is reserved for the junior bankers putting the finishing touches on pitch books. And lets face it, after that first one, its a lot of cut and paste, not 2 am days. Truth now: you actaully find it a little exhilirating. Something to brag about to the roomies and folks back home. Makes you seem necessary, useful and, best of all, strong. Which totally obfuscates the reality, which is that you’re basically a proof reader.
About a dozen Merrill FIG bankers quit today in light of BAC bonuses and Lewis’s new strategic direction.
Here’s a warning to the BAC Board and Kenneth Lewis: If you choose not to pay us, we will leave and take our clients with us. And you will have wasted $45B purchasing an investment bank without investment bankers. Good luck, you’ll need it.
Haha, where exactly are you gonna go tough guy?
boutiques: historically have been for people who were fired from, or couldnt get hired by, bulge firms
things dont have to stay the same/repeat itself
bulge firms: will continue to shrink for a while (if you disagree, ask what part of your firm is making enough money to do anything other than pay the lights. and anyone who says “fixed income is up big in jan”, remember that every year that happens as firms mark down positions in dec, then up in jan. every year.
boutiques going forward: the problem, like the economy, is the demand side. so which clients are going to need what services from the boutiques, that they cant or wont want from a bulge firm? that boutique had better hire TONS of GREAT people if it wants to snag that business
the flaw in your argument is that BAC is not a bulge firm. Its big, but never had the stature of the traditional bulges: GS, MS, First Boston, Salomon, Merrill. A lot of wannabe bulges (JPM, C, BAC, UBS, Deutsche) gained market share as a result of extending credit to their customers. No one has ever had a lot of respect for their abilities when it came to heavy lifting in areas like M&A, equity underwriting,