Nov 11, 2009, 10:34am
Nov 10, 2009, 8:45am
CNBC reports that managing directors in UBS's investment management division will receive neither cash nor stock in '09. As for 2010? Bonuses shall be 100 percent stock, with a three year vesting period attached to 1/3 of the package. AND if UBS has a loss over those three years, clawbacks will ensue.
Related: Bonus Watch '09: BAC Get Bupkis
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Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:36PM
UBS sucks.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:37PM
And, 10 airlines lost money on fuel hedges in the last quarters. Some have bailed on those hedges that extended into 2011 in some cases. Who put the airlines into those hedges at the seemingly the same time?
~Curious at A and 3rd.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:40PM
U Be Screwed.
Posted by mktmkr , Jan 29, 2009 12:40PM
taste it UBS
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:41PM
So let me understand this correctly...
Now some of these jerkoffs make the same annual comp as their secretaries???
Awesome!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:43PM
seriously depressing place to be right now...
@5 most likely less
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:43PM
seriously depressing place to be right now...
@4 lol
@5 most likely less
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:44PM
GOOD. SUCK IT YOU MOTHER F'ERS. You blew up the world economy, you suffer the consequences.
Now can we adapt this for use in every single "bulge bracket" I-bank in the US?
From here on out, every single bonus should be mostly stock and vest over a minimum of 4 years. You cant live on 100k salary and 100k cash portion in your bonus? Find another job or city to live in.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:47PM
Didn't I read somewhere that people in the US weren;t actually THAT screwed?
If I am incorrect, how does one short the RE Mkt in Fairfield county? Is there an ETF?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:48PM
For some inexplicable reason I keep getting offered positions at UBS. Quite frankly I'd rather remain unemployed.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:49PM
What happens to the guys in their fx hedge fund group? those guys did 16% last year.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:52PM
UBS. Know a guy or 2 in telecom IB. Arrogant pricks, and it's a particularly unsuccessful group. This makes me happy.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:52PM
@8, what the fuck is a FERS?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:53PM
UBS sucks Dennis Kneale swallows
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:54PM
Does this mean that the MDs will now have to fetch coffee for their assistants since they will be making less money than them now???
UBS giveth and UBS taketh away...what a great place to work!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:56PM
Now does anyone doubt that the NYC real estate market will drop like a rock very soon??????
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:57PM
too Kneale, couldn't Rise
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:57PM
I guess I can't get my gold plated diapers I had my eye on!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 12:59PM
I guess I can't get my gold plated diapers I had my eye on!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:02PM
too swiss, didn't miss
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:02PM
wasn't it just investment banking only?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:02PM
wasn't it just investment banking only?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:05PM
UBS has been trying to kick the ib div to the curb for years.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:05PM
Sounds like UBS is working to unwind their entire US operation by April
U B Screwed is right
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:05PM
Sounds like UBS is working to unwind their entire US operation by April
U B Screwed is right
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:05PM
Sounds like UBS is working to unwind their entire US operation by April
U B Screwed is right
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:07PM
Donny Duetche making a TON of sense on CNBC. Where is is written these idiots need to make $5mil a year?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:08PM
@24-26, Sounds like you don't know how to use the interwebs
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:09PM
@8, you are dead wrong. try living in nyc on 100k per year and supporting a family while working 80+ hrs per week. Try BUYING a home on that salary...impossible. You can't. You sir are a moron
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:11PM
@29. TOO BAD. Move. FIND ANOTHER INDUSTRY TO WORK IN.
Im so sick of this "oh you cant live in NYC on that salary" NO ONE CARES. Sorry about your luck but its not a birthright to live in NYC.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:11PM
@8, you are dead wrong. try living in nyc on 100k per year and supporting a family while working 80+ hrs per week. Try BUYING a home on that salary...impossible. You can't. You sir are a moron
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:12PM
MDs at WMUS will have at least 40% of their bonus deferred and then any amount above a certain amount are also thrown into the 3 year deferrment.
EDs - 30%
Ds - 20%
ADs - 10%
Minimum deferrment $5k.
To make up for the claw back and maximum bonus for 2008, many people's salaries at the top levels will be increased
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:13PM
"if UBS has a loss over those three years"
If? Seems a foregone conclusion doesn't it?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:13PM
Banks need to change the compensation structure on Wall St. Find the salary level that lets people work / live in NYC and put people there. Bonuses need to stop being such a big portion of comp.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:15PM
@30
Here here. NYC fucking sucks. I don't know what in gods name is the attraction.
Roaches, Rats, Gold diggers, Madoff, what?
That said Westchester County isn't much better.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:15PM
@29, right on dude
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:16PM
gasbags just dropped the f bomb on power lunch. the situation is fluid.
oh, chuck. what are we going to do with you?
Posted by merkin capital partners , Jan 29, 2009 1:16PM
did gasparino just say "stupid fucking.."? also donny douche should take his own life.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:16PM
This isn't right.
Posted by cy , Jan 29, 2009 1:17PM
Funny to me how the people bitching about wall street comp are the same people who rushed to pass the tarp in the first place.
If wall street wants to pay its people $20 billion in a year when it lost $100 billion plus, great, but don't coming crying that you need taxpayer money when shit blows up in your face. It was retarted to give them the money in the first place.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:17PM
This isn't right.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:18PM
This isn't right.
@29, agreed.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:18PM
This isn't right.
@29, agreed.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Jan 29, 2009 1:19PM
@38 - get out! this could be the straw that breaks that monkey's back...I know someone has a dvr - someone get that up on youtube stat so bessy can post dat $h1t. I know denny k must be smiling on his way to the bosses office to rat out no sleeves...
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:19PM
wow... you had to initially applaud UBS for being innovative with the deferred comp w/ clawback provision as a great business decision since it aligned compensation with long-term incentives and performance.
but on second thought, maybe UBS really doesn't understand how to run its business. no bonus for Investment MANAGEMENT? A highly profitable, people-based business with low capital reqs and barriers to entry? might you piss off some of your cash cows?
i guess you could always justify this by pointing out no one is hiring and they were probably overpaid for previous years of work, but what stops MDs from jumping ship or forming their own start-ups?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:20PM
@35
You have obviously never enjoyed the finer things NYC has to offer.
Your biggest accomplishment is probably getting your wife/gf to blow you once a year on your birthday.
-Riblets
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:20PM
@[39,41,42,43]
You need to move out of NYC. The place is giving you the shakes. Free advice from a concerned citizen.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:22PM
investment BANKING
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:24PM
I am the CEO of a hedge fund
What is a clawback?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:25PM
@46
We visit by train, enjoy ourselves then leave. Your sister blows me on the way home. Thanks for being my best man, Kermit.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:26PM
wow... you had to initially applaud UBS for being innovative with the deferred comp w/ clawback provision as a great business decision since it aligned compensation with long-term incentives and performance.
but on second thought, maybe UBS really doesn't understand how to run its business. no bonus for Investment MANAGEMENT? A highly profitable, people-based business with low capital reqs and barriers to entry? might you piss off some of your cash cows?
i guess you could always justify this by pointing out no one is hiring and they were probably overpaid for previous years of work, but what stops MDs from jumping ship or forming their own start-ups?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:27PM
The prize goes to @49
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:28PM
@30 - isn't your lunch break over? Your shift junior supervisor is going to be pissed if you're not back at the fry station in, like, 30 seconds . . .
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:30PM
@50
Train huh? Too cheap to pay for parking or are your driving skills not up to par?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:31PM
@47, i'm going to guess you live in your parent's basement. go back to your world of warcraft and stop posting on dealbreaker.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:32PM
Did you know MTA operators (subway) can make 100k+ year...
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:32PM
@54
Hahaha. That all you got? Fucking turd.
Later.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:32PM
@47, i'm going to guess you live in your parent's basement. go back to your world of warcraft and stop posting on dealbreaker.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:33PM
Typical Dealbreaker comments section:
Posts 1-3: FIRST
Posts 4-40: insights, back-and-forth
Posts 41+: You're a moron. Your mother blows me. Go back to your parents' basement/IT job/backoffice gruntwork. You don't know what the f*** you're talking about.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:35PM
cry me a frickin' river. bankers get paid obscene bonuses in good years and nothing in bad ones. if you save nothing and are indeed dependent on this or next year's bonus to live on beyond your base, then you're a moron and deserve everything coming to you.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:36PM
@60
IT guy
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:40PM
@59 too long, didn't read
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:41PM
Wouldn't it make sense to stop all this banking regultaion banter in Washington?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:41PM
@61
if so, 60 is likely employed, how's it looking on your end?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:42PM
Typical DB comment section has a slew of people who live in NYC (likely bigtime douches) calling out anyone who DARES say that they arent a Master of the Universe and deserving of multi figure bonuses. Their typical insult revolves around you being from a flyover state or working in the "back office" (the worst possible insult in their world)
What these idiots dont realize is that 99% of this country despises them and they'll soon be laid off from their precious "bulge bracket" job
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:43PM
@60, these 'overpaid' bankers keep people like you employed, sweeping floors, driving cars, making sandwiches. no bonus for bankers = no job for you.
Posted by merkin capital partners , Jan 29, 2009 1:44PM
The aforementioned Gasparino F-bomb @ 4:34
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1016828136&play=1
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:44PM
@59
hit Post Comment button 3 times in a row before reading comments
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:44PM
@59
hit Post Comment button 3 times in a row before reading comments
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:44PM
59
Noone's family is perfect.
xoxo,
The Noels
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:45PM
@65
That's what's wrong with this country. The public despises the wealthy to the extreme, maybe they should try harder.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:46PM
@65
Are your parents brother and sister? Or are you a dumb bro?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:47PM
@66
Yes.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:47PM
re: gasparino saying 'fuck' on air. this is probably the 4th time he's said it this month and, also, who the fuck cares? other than, you know, 5 year olds who think fuck is a naughty word?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:49PM
65 Maybe so, but why would I care if someone in a flyover state didn't like me? I would simply attribute it to jealousy. I don't hate them - I just could care less.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:49PM
65 - don't forget the section of comments from the jealous people who couldn't get jobs on Wall St and think that anyone who did and who makes more than them should give them some of their money. These posters typically equate success and money greater than their own with "being a bigtime douche"
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:50PM
dennis kneale wishes anyone would let him
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:51PM
@60 - you are an idiot and don't know what you are talking about. Most people can survive living in NYC on a banker's salary but if you have a family and bought a house/apt then forget about it; plus there are many people who just came out of business school and have lots of debt on top of everything. While people are screaming about the excesses of comp the past few years, this is simply not true for anyone under MD - you can even argue that junior bankers were underpaid given the amount of real revenue being generated by most firms (this is in direct contrast to paper gains created by traders). Plus much of comp was paid in stock and deferred which is now almost worthless. So you people ranting about how much bankers were paid just shut up. 60 - you clearly are just happy to see others suffer especially since you couldn't get into banking to begin with
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:51PM
@71
Good one! Most of my fellow Gen Y's are spoiled brats who watched too much MTV and have no respect for smart work, elders or innovation.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:53PM
ha ha you loser bankers
If you were that smart, you would've gone to med or law school.
Now you're fucked. Ha Ha.
Flip A. Burger
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:53PM
note the crime rate and number of homeless on nyc's streets has signficantly risen in the absence of all the 'evil bankers' contributions to charity are probably the first thing to go when bonus' go away. Wake up 65, take your 'spread the wealth' ideals and shove them up your ass.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:55PM
@71 - the public is wrong for despising extreme wealth, but at the same time, bankers that lived high on the hog* during the good times can't expect sympathy when bonuses go to zero. If you're really so much fucking smarter than the dimwits in nebraska then prove it by ACKNOWLEDGING that you're in a cyclical industry and SAVING for when times are tough. You should be able to weather a few bad years via savings if you were really that much of a "baller".
And before you say one fucking word, i worked in banking for four glorious years, saved most of my bonuses and moved the fuck out of that sinking cesspool island in early '08.
*(oops! southern-ish expression, i'm discredited)
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:55PM
29,65 has it 100% correct.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:56PM
@81 - do you have concrete stats? We have been talking about this and it seems that the amount of homeless is up but weren't sure
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:56PM
these fondue eating fuckwads finally figured it out.
you fancy finance fuckers can go fuck yourselves!
you've been overpaid for too long
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:58PM
It doesnt have to be about "spread the wealth" Its not about "jealousy of those who work in Ibanking" or "live in NYC"
Its about SANITY. It about a payscale that isnt ridiculously asinine. Invesment Bankers who work 90 hour weeks can survive on a total comp of $500k. They dont NEED to make $3 million. Traders can survive on a total comp of $450k. They dont NEED to make $10million. The sense of entitlement is whats wrong with Wall St, not what they do or how they do it.
The bonus culture of Wall St needs to be changed to reflect the reality that people who push buttons or know all the shortcuts in Excel arent the pinnacle of human achievement.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:58PM
@85 - you're right. It's time for you newspaper delivery boys to GET YOURS!!!! YEAAAAAAHHHHH!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:58PM
As a NY banker, let me say I'm embarassed by all of you who argue that you deserve big bucks cause you live in an expensive town and work long hours. Thats not the way the industry works: you earn really big when your firm earns big; if it doesn't earn big you suffer as well. You signed onto that when you went into banking. What you want now is to change the game to a heads I win-tails I dont loose model. You cant be a brave master of the universe, best man wins and takes all when things are good and a sniveling baby when theyre not. Just doesnt work that way, so stop crying and try and hang on until things turn around. I'm guessing from the degree of pain I'm hearing that many of you have already spent your next three years bonuses on inflated real estate and are now crapping yr pants. Your mistake.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 1:58PM
@82
Four glorious years. I bet you even made VP. Wow.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:00PM
nice use of alliteration 85, way to use that liberal arts education. go do something 'creative'
81, concrete stats can be found: www.nypost.com or on your local 1 train.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:00PM
82 is right on the money.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:00PM
@ 85, how were the bonuses at Deutsche?
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Jan 29, 2009 2:02PM
Hey, fucktards! Remember capitalism? Remember when everything wasn't owed to you? Remember when we all talked shit about Detroit autoworkers deserving their fucked up lives for not improving their skills, going into a new industry, moving from shitty Detroit, taking risks? Remember when UBS was trying to stay afloat? Remember today?
It sucks that so many people are getting fucked right now, but thus is the game of life. The people bitching and whining about their cut salaries/bonuses on this board are truly pitiful. If you don't agree with what you're getting paid, start a new shop, change industries, or move to an area where your income matches your needs.
Talk about fucking socialism. UBS pays you whatever the fuck they want, because they're your employer. If you don't understand this, then you should probably be working for a safe not-for-profit, or joining a fucking union.
Worthless drivel.
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Jan 29, 2009 2:03PM
Hey, fucktards! Remember capitalism? Remember when everything wasn't owed to you? Remember when we all talked shit about Detroit autoworkers deserving their fucked up lives for not improving their skills, going into a new industry, moving from shitty Detroit, taking risks? Remember when UBS was trying to stay afloat? Remember today?
It sucks that so many people are getting fucked right now, but thus is the game of life. The people bitching and whining about their cut salaries/bonuses on this board are truly pitiful. If you don't agree with what you're getting paid, start a new shop, change industries, or move to an area where your income matches your needs.
Talk about fucking socialism. UBS pays you whatever the fuck they want, because they're your employer. If you don't understand this, then you should probably be working for a safe not-for-profit, or joining a fucking union.
Worthless drivel.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:03PM
i don't think the public despises the wealthy. the public despises wealth when it is accompanied by greed, self entitlement, and arrogance.
unfortunately the financial bubble of the last few years has created a lot of people with these personality traits.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:06PM
UBS=Tool Academy
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:07PM
UBS=Tool Academy
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:07PM
I'm an investment banking analyst. I have a proposition: Pay me my 65K salary (certainly reasonable for someone who invested 200K and a lot of hard work in an Ivy League education given it is equivalent to the starting salary for an MTA ticket booth worker) and pay me overtime instead of a bonus according to government work rules for hourly workers. By my calcs I'll make about 150K a year. Surely the "bankers are scum" crowd can't complain about this arrangement.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:08PM
"if you don't pay the top talent they will leave"
i hear mcdonalds is hiring.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:10PM
i think 98 got it right. about 150k is what a top banker is worth
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:11PM
Anyone remember where that quote was from the golddigger whose husband was fired from an investment bank something like "my job is to take care of the kids and the house, his job is to bring in the money to maintain our lifestyle. I'm still doing my job."
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:11PM
@ 49 "I am the CEO of a hedge fund
What is a clawback?"
Answer:
Your beautiful wife's hands in your fee account pocket.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:12PM
The credibility of nearly 50% of these posts is a little off. Must everyone on here act as if they are still in high school or are most of the posters on here just kids anyway?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:14PM
People who complain about wall street seem to think that because they work as hard as we do, there should be a parity between the two in terms of comp. What they fail to realize is that while they are making cars, we are making money. Our product is money. There is ALWAYS a demand for money, therefore the more you make the more you should paid. However, When they make cars (or some other product) it doesn't matter how much they produce, the demand will fade. So if I produce a million dollars and an auto worker produces a million cars, should we get compensated the same? No way. I will not get into who worked harder (brains v braun) but the fact is that wall streets product has infinite demand. Everyone wants to invest and retire. bottom line. Yes, the business is cyclical, but invesments still need to be made. As long as people are working they will want to put their money somewhere, whether it be CDO's or Treasuries or stocks... right now, people want to stay liquid.
it is not understood the difference between market value and intrinsic value. Not all CDO's or sub prime ABS are worth 0. That would imply that ALL of the underlying collateral is worth 0. Say all loans default on a particular bond, does the holder get 0?? No, the holder gets whatever resale value there is in the house. it may not be much, but it is something. That whole process needs to be monitored. That is what wall street does.
If No one is buying cars, then that is it, end of the line.
Wall Street should be compensated! Rage against the Machine!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:15PM
read the fine print in the cash agreements and stock plans. Look for time lines where you have to do something. They will use those against you. What happened to the 55% of revenue rule?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:16PM
@88
fuck you
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:19PM
98 So in a good year your upside is capped at $150 as well? If I were your boss I would agree in a minute (and in the interest in harmony pledge to not scruitinize your O/T that much, since, lets face it, a lot of that is just face time).
The reason you should be slightly disappointed but realistic about the $65 you earned this year is that the chances are very good of you earning significantly more when times are good. And if you don't think good times will return, then you should leave the industry.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:19PM
@88 agree at the sr. banker level. Guys at the jr. banker level work the hours with only a fraction of the upside in good times
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Jan 29, 2009 2:20PM
104,
Cars to comp. --- who gives a shit? Your argument has nothing to do with anything being discussed here. No one deserves anything. You're either worth your salt, or not. And that's it.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:21PM
@104
I'm sure you make lots of money for the firm you work for.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:22PM
@80 Yeah right. I'm a corporate finance lawyer (love your site, by the way) and I am just waiting for the bad news like many still employed.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:23PM
98 Ever consider that if your firm is not making any money then the value of your toil is not even worth $65, despite the cost and perceived prestige of your education. At least that MTA person is selling tickets.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:25PM
@108 isnt that how it is everywhere?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:28PM
@109 If you make a product that has infinite demand vs a product with diminshing demand, you deserve a fuck-ton more.
cars to comp wasn't the argument, it was who should get paid more, those producing money or those producing cars.
But I guess as a lowly assistant, your only reading comprehension comes from from the starbucks cups you fetch.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:29PM
i find it interesting how everyone talks about who deserves what etc, but no one seems to touch on the most important point: does this make sense for the business. my guess is no. most of the businesses at ubs are agency and low risk and most made money in 2008. these are all going to be gone. an extra 1-2 billion investment in bonuses could secure 5-10b of revenue just next year. so whether or not you feel people deserve it, it is a negative for shareholders.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:31PM
@88, WAMU teller? i'd like to make a deposit on your face
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:32PM
UBS
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:33PM
@101 NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/fashion/11berrys.html
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:33PM
but the junior guys arent sourcing the revenue or bringing it in. their comp isnt directly tied to closed deals bringing in rev. A 3rd year analyst who was on $10bln of closed deals will make ~ equal to a 3rd year who didnt close a deal, provided they both worked as hard. The analyst's respective MD's will have vastly different comp.
A trader who's realized profits are huge, should get a huge bonus ($10mil can be easily justified). But similar to PE, if your positions are longer-term, you shouldnt get paid out until they are full seasoned. If youve got a book of esoteric L3 assets, the mark to "market" model shouldnt determine comp...you should have a carried interest in your pool of assets. PE heads dont see their carry until they exit their deals
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Jan 29, 2009 2:36PM
114,
Perhaps I've honed my comp. skills via numerous runs to SBUX, because no one ever made the argument compensation should be similar. Believe me, cuntface: I'm on your side. I believe in big pay. I believe in working hard, going to school, diversifying your knowledge to tackle numerous subjects.
However, I don't believe that you, or anyone else on this god-forsaken planet, DESERVES a certain amount of money. If you don't like your pay, move on. Don't go on a message board and bitch about how things are unfair.
Do you need some cream for your pussy? I can make a quick run to Duane Reade in a bit.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:39PM
@112 point is as a junior guy upside there is no upside beyond what you would get if you got overtime. Essentially you are a glorified processor and are paid accordingly.
Additionally, the MTA ticket booth workers haven't sold tickets since they installed the automatic vending machines. Not clear what exactly they do except live off the 50% of bankers' bonuses that go to taxes
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:42PM
@118 thanks
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:43PM
junior bankers were "underpaid"?? really wow, you mean your excel jockey/ppt monkey/comp checking job which was already in the process of being outsourced to bangalore even during the good times? is that the job you're referring to??
please. bankers with actual value ie, client relationships, will be fine.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:43PM
@ 104:
EVA braun?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:44PM
@120, I guess we do agree. People who bitch that wall street should get no bonus are esentially saying they should be paid the same.
After all of those things you mentioned (School, hard work, etc...) dont you think you deserve something?
btw... "cuntface" ... i love it.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:47PM
@107, I'm sure most IB analysts would be more than willing to accept your offer
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:51PM
Sell-side analysts are incomptent. I am fully in favor of paying them $65K plus OT.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:53PM
@127... I agree. I'm sell side and I hate the analysts running around here. They mess up every simple task I ask them to do.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:55PM
First!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 2:59PM
121 Point is that your upside is coming down the road - or so you hope. The entire Street comp structure is based on that notion. As in a law firm, accounting firm. Isn't that obvious? As for 119, in addition to the prior sentence, consider that you may not be directly bringing in revenue like the MD but you're a contributing factor. Ergo, if he doesnt bring in the profits, you should suffer too.
Are both of you really so dense as to not understand this? www.mta.gov/jobs
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:02PM
All of these comments seem to miss the point: compensation should be set at whatever is in the best interest of the shareholders. They own the companies and management and employees have a duty act in their best interest. If that means lowering compensation to keep cash on hand in order to survive the recession (and avoid the need to request government aid, which could dilute their ownership interests), then so be it. If that means paying bonuses to keep top performers for when things turn around, then that's what management should do. The argument shouldn't be over what's right or wrong or whether it's fair to compensate those employees that worked 100 hours a week, it should be over whether, looking forward, a given compensation structure will maximize shareholder value. If UBS has determined that investment banking is an area that will diminish the that value in the future, their actions are perfectly justified. If not, well, you get the idea.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:03PM
@104
I’m frightened by your allusion to “(brains v braun)”. Do users of German shaving products run the risk of brain damage because of toxic lead in the devices? Could the danger potentially be compounded due to the proximity of my mutton chops to my brain? Can I continue to use my electric razor to trim my ass hair?
Thanx
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:04PM
All of these comments seem to miss the point: compensation should be set at whatever is in the best interest of the shareholders. They own the companies and management and employees have a duty act in their best interest. If that means lowering compensation to keep cash on hand in order to survive the recession (and avoid the need to request government aid, which could dilute their ownership interests), then so be it. If that means paying bonuses to keep top performers for when things turn around, then that's what management should do. The argument shouldn't be over what's right or wrong or whether it's fair to compensate those employees that worked 100 hours a week, it should be over whether, looking forward, a given compensation structure will maximize shareholder value. If UBS has determined that investment banking is an area that will diminish the that value in the future, their actions are perfectly justified. If not, well, you get the idea.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:05PM
@104: "Wall Street's product has infinite demand". There doesn't seem to be much demand right now, son. Don't get all high-falutin', there cowboy. Bankers skim money off the top of transactions (advisory) or make money off spreads (trading). Bankers' comp. is merely a transaction cost. If there is no industry, there is no banking. Remember that.
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Jan 29, 2009 3:07PM
125,
I deserve 6 (or 9 if they moved it up) months unemployment (for taxes paid) if I receive the boot, and whatever severance they bounce my way. During that time, I'd reassess my skills and see whether I should stay in finance or move to another industry.
If the firm isn't turning profit, the firm dissolves. Keeping people around with fluffy compensation while the shop's on fire is exactly what the UAW has done and will continue to do (if allotted more public funds).
This is why Wall St. is great --- capitalism. At-will employment. Incentives for generating profit. If those incentives aren't there, that's when you jump ship. If you're worth your shit, someone will grab you. End of story.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:12PM
@135
i hear McDonalds is hiring
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:13PM
@134. No demand? have you noticed the rally in treasuries over the past, say, year and a half?? There will always be a demand for a place to house money.
back to the ranch with you
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:20PM
Actually, the idea that drew people to banking and that bankers advertise is that it is an extremely meritocratic profession. Why should people in groups that have made money, for example equities, have to suffer? They did their jobs, they brough in the money to the bank. Why should they suffer because management decided to pour untold billions into what essentially amounted to prop trading with no risk controls by the mortgage guys? No, no one is "entitled" to bonus. But if we're going to claim this system is meritocratic, then pay the people who produced. There were plenty who did.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:20PM
Is this the Bernie Madoff caption contest?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:21PM
Your education - and whatever you paid for it - does not entitle you to any specific salary.
Grow up.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:26PM
this wallstreet disaster will send nyc back to the 1970's.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:28PM
I wouldn't say that UBS is your standard WS bank in that they're always playing catch up. But, I would say that this is the future of WS. See it and weep.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:29PM
@141 - WAAAAAARRIORSSSSSSS come out and PLAAAAAAAYYY-AAYYYYYYYY!!!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:35PM
hello - i work on the buy side...and i dont live in nyc. everyone on the buyside thinks that bankers are mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers. your attitudes on the DB and LSO msg boards seems to confirm it.
best,
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:36PM
@104. Coming from someone on the desk, not every CDO is worth 0, and not all CDO's are valued at 0, but most are. Most CDO's, (and other collateralized debt instruments) are synthetic, and therefore the only traunches traded are worth 0.
The bottom line is that the world needs this industry. It's like public transportation, if the government has to give it billions to stay working, than sometimes sacrifices have to be made or else the entire city will shut down. Just look at Detroit (basically, no public transportation)
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:38PM
142 comments with 100 of them coming from disgruntled UBS bankers.
@88 and Lowly are spot on. Those are the rules. Life is volatile and all things are temporary. Don't like it? Too bad, adapt
RE displaced bankers of all ages:
If you're older and now strapped, you should have saved more and planned for dire outcomes. Deep down you know this.
If you're younger, just STFU and be thankful that you have flexibility and there is currently no draft. Better to sit in your shithole studio in NYC than in a foxhole somewhere in Pakistan.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:39PM
@138: This was the best commente EVER!!!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:43PM
How much is Raoul Weil getting, that is if they can find him?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 3:45PM
@134
agreed. transaction costs are for middlemen, who are vendors, not producers, which accurately describes the sell side. volume = fee = bonus. it has nothing to do with "producing money" as 104 thinks, but then again he can't spell monosyllabic words, so best to leave him to his delusions lest he get hostile.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 4:19PM
@106 it seems like your an overleveraged little bitch.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 4:23PM
It's amazing the the whinny NYC bitches haven't figured out that UBS is mainly in Stamford, CT. Oh wait, don't tell me: You morons commute to Stamford from NYC?
Retards.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 4:38PM
Lots of bitches in this thread.
You never deserved that bonus in the first place. Now wave bye-bye.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 4:43PM
@123
Ain't that the truth. I could never figure out why I was getting paid so much to email spreadsheets to people a few blocks away but when you're on a gravy train you don't get off. Who is John Galt?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 5:05PM
After scanning the comments very few actually made sense. 45,119, 139. I tip my hat to you. Talent is talent. And a apart of the logic is paying someone to stay. “But they have no where to go?” BS. Not every firm is losing money in the world, be it asset management, hedge fund, whatever. And they (the profitable and talented bankers/traders) can pool their money together and start their on fill in the blank. Just like most of the hedge funds/PE shops got started. You know most of those people were once talented members of X firm? The gents that made a bundle for goldman last year 2007shorting the housing market, offset the gents that lost money buying the shyt. So do you want the guys that offset the dumb ones to leave? Sounds fccking stupid to me.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 5:06PM
you all are retarded
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 5:06PM
2008 Wall Street Comps Survey
Dear Colleague,
We are pleased to announce the launch of the Third Annual Investment Banking Compensation Survey: http://www.wallstreetcomps.com/survey_enter_data.asp
This survey is to keep you and your peers informed about the compensation trends in the industry. The resulting compensation report will be free and will break down compensation by title, location, groups and banks.
The survey should take approximately one minute to complete. Individual submissions are anonymous and kept strictly confidential. No personal data is required and the data is used on an aggregated basis only. The survey will only remain open until the end of February, so please participate as soon as you are able to do so. Results will be released around mi March.
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Thank you.
The Wall Street Comps team
Webmaster@wallstreetcomps.com
http://www.wallstreetcomps.com
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 5:23PM
After scanning the comments very few actually made sense. 45,119, 139. I tip my hat to you. Talent is talent. And a apart of the logic is paying someone to stay. “But they have no where to go?” BS. Not every firm is losing money in the world, be it asset management, hedge fund, whatever. And they (the profitable and talented bankers/traders) can pool their money together and start their on fill in the blank. Just like most of the hedge funds/PE shops got started. You know most of those people were once talented members of X firm? The gents that made a bundle for goldman last year 2007shorting the housing market, offset the gents that lost money buying the shyt. So do you want the guys that offset the dumb ones to leave? Sounds fccking stupid to me.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 5:28PM
Warriors come out to pla-ay
WARRIORS COME OUT TO PLAAAAY!
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 5:33PM
@157...classic rant. LOL
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 5:37PM
@157
I thought we told you to stop ranting here, Cliff Asness
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 5:42PM
@157
Agreed. The big clean out has been too long in coming.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 6:01PM
@157 Welcome back Assness,
So how much of your FUCKING AUM is going to be left after the lock up is over? How goes the fund raising with your record now?
I am glad guys like you are blowing up in front me. It shows the difference between over educated idiots like yourself and actual risk management. It gives my shop its chance in the Sun.
You joke about the big flush, when its your ass that is circling the bowl. Typical Assclown.
Thanks for spreading the wealth around,
-Not Cliff Asness
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 6:39PM
@163
As much as we'd like it I'm not sure tis Cliffy. He and his partners always froth at the mouth whenever the NYC bitches whine about having AQR moved back to Manhattan. The response was always "there are plenty of other job opportunities in Manhattan." You see, Cliffy likes his short commute from the leafy Greenwich suburbs.
Over the last few days Cliffy has been busy 'quietly' euthanizing his portfolio managers. Doesn't want to draw attention. I'm sure that if pressed the BS about 'lower 10%' will be rolled out yet again.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 7:07PM
1. So, UBS doesn't pay any bonuses
2. Many employees leave
3. Tip top employees head across the street to CS et al
4. UBS becomes even shitter
5. UBS shares drop further
6. Taxpayer loses out due to mass hysteria surrounding the word 'bonus'
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 7:13PM
@157: classic
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 7:15PM
@165
Taxpayers shouldn't have invested a dime in these crappy banks, so your point 6 is irrelevant.
Posted by arbmeister , Jan 29, 2009 7:21PM
@167
fascinating insight - do u work for a HF?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 7:57PM
AQR
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 9:18PM
Even if us bankers make only slightly more than pikers in advertising (for example) for a few years, we'll still get double the chicks because we're freakin' "bankers". We're still smarter, more polished and more ambitious, and in 5 years we'll be back to covering an advertising piker's yearly salary in two months.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 9:21PM
@170
Curious, what do people in advertising actually make? They don't clear 100k, do they?
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 9:24PM
@171 -- I have a buddy who makes $80k and is a middle manager in his mid-30's.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 9:26PM
170 or otherwise known as the last Dinosaur doesn't realize his model is broken and his gig is over. He is going to be a curiosity wandering around the zoo telling kids about the last great war, only in his case it will be about Models and Bottles... Excel & Sam Adams
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 9:43PM
Hey 170 -
Did your manager tell you that you were going to be OK, hence the positive afffirmations? Keep looking busy, and it's all going to work out for you.
If you are smarter, more polished, and more ambitious then why would you stand for getting shafted for the mistakes of others? Go raise your own capital and do it your way.
Guessing that's not a possibility because you are a dope, but that's just a guess.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 10:02PM
139 There are two elements to comp: what you or your group contributed and the overall profitability of the firm. Your point is that your group brought in profits, therefore you should be rewarded. The only way that can be a hard and fast rule is if your group also agrees to reimburse the firm when it doesnt produce (as in "clawback"). Otherwise who's going to cover the losses of the groups that are short. Sheesh, is that so f-ing difficult to figure out??
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 10:16PM
171 172 Not anymore. Pre dot com it was all fun and games, relatively big salaries, expense accounts. Then the bust came and clients wisened up, decided to pay for only what they really needed - creatives writing and producing ads - no BS research, hand holding, entertaining, lavish production budgets. Technology (computer graphics, etc) also took a lot of costs out at the grunt level. Similar to going from 8 colum paper to excel. Total title deflation occured. In early 90s, SVPs were mid-30s, making a few hundred thou. Now that same job is held by a 28 yo making $70.
Posted by Finnegan , Jan 29, 2009 10:25PM
People who work with money will always do okay. The "model" may be broken, but it just reconstitutes itself in a slightly modified form. Someone else above suggested that. People will always need insurance, places to park retirement money, opportunities to get loans, methods to hedge risk, ways to lower taxes or increase income.
Those suggesting that it's all "by by" are just stupid, and history shows you that. Technology changes, products change, locations change, but the use and management of money in whatever form always remains.
The fired bankers, traders and assorted other staff can pool their money and reconstitute in some place, and do what they have always done.
Posted by guest , Jan 29, 2009 11:17PM
UBS has only received support from the Swiss Central Bank (honor among thieves is the motto) rather than the FDIC or TARP money so you should only be upset about the tax evasion that UBS Wealth Management was offering US taxpayers, allegedly. The question I have is how much money are they going to be able to claw back from the Dillon Read Capital Management team like John Costas, Mike Hutchins and Ken Karl? I would love to see their comp publicly disclosed. All three were senior people at the top of the organization so this isn't a case of picking on the little people.
- Fixed Income
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 2:15AM
if we assume that this is cyclical, and we will have better years in the future... ok, don´t pay me any bonus at all this year (or even next), but please keep the good people and fire the stupid guys (including all current management) who put ourselves into this mess... that will be good for the company in the long term, for the shareholders, and for the "serious" employees.
the problem is that they are NOT doing that. in the case of ubs, actually they are doing the opposite: the "good ones" are leaving, and all the responsibilty has been given to a bunch of swiss morons
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 6:28AM
I heard UBS in Asia Pacific has got an MBO ready to go.
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 7:22AM
@179
Swiss Morons? Trickle down?
Dude, every time I've had to deal with someone at UBS it has been an unmitigated disaster area. The people in the meetings, on the phone, or that I've had to deal with in person *shudder* were NOT Swiss. What is happening now is a reflection of the firms culture.
Thanks for your contribution.
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 9:53AM
What will happen in banking will roughly approximate what happened in medicine 20 years ago.
A new generation of talent will replace the old and accept lower pay. The older establishment will bitch and moan yet they were the ones responsible because of their greed.
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 10:24AM
all i have to say to all the people moaning about how much bankers get paid is f u. apparently you have no idea how much work it is, how much of your life you give up - oh and how much money we actually bring in! your math is sh*t. most of the people who get the $m levels bring in 100x that amount in revenue - i personally dont think getting paid 1% of what you actually earn is insulting- in fact compared to the lawyers, consultants, accountants and medical professionals its a f-ing joke. and as someone here also said, you are all screwed if we dont earn!
jokes apart to number 179 - you are spot on and trust me it is really scary here right now. as for no 181 - what are you on about child? do you even know where Switzerland is? last time i checked you call morgan stanley from europe you dont speak to a yank - get a life!
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 10:55AM
@183
I think you should go back to Bangalore. Twerp.
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 10:58AM
183 You sound very childish. Also, you need to learn to distinguish between revenue and profit. Jusy saying.
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 11:16AM
@183
Ouch...sounds like ya' got a clear case of entitlement!
Don't worry you've got strength in numbers...seems to be pretty rampant these days in the financial community.
Perverse thing is, it's a very discriminating condition -- you don't know you got it until someone (usually not someone you know) points it out.
Good luck!
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 11:17AM
@183
Ouch...sounds like ya' got a clear case of entitlement!
Don't worry you've got strength in numbers...seems to be pretty rampant these days in the financial community.
Perverse thing is, it's a very discriminating condition -- you don't know you got it until someone (usually not someone you know) points it out.
Good luck!
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 11:30AM
@183
of all the failed [i]banks, UBS is the one EVERYONE gives the least shit about.
U B Sucks AND U Be Screwed.
Suck on it
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 1:19PM
184 - 188 you are a douche. now go make me a sandwich
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 1:33PM
@189
Filler up...have you ever heard of a "wish" sandwich...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYyBZE0kBtE
what a rube...
Posted by shalimar , Jan 30, 2009 3:47PM
Prices are converging towards intrinsic value.
By the way - "bankers", you guys are salespeople. Sales people are paid on commission. If there's nothing to sell, or if the buyers realize that you're not worth anything, you don't make money.
Now that you've run out of stupid buyers, the used-company dealership model falls apart.
If you want to maintain high wages, work in a job where you can directly attribute your pay to performance (ideally, contractually), have some level of agency over your work, then put in the sweat to make some money for your firm and yourself.
Posted by shalimar , Jan 30, 2009 3:59PM
@183
I imagine you're good at spreadsheets, since writing obviously isn't your strong point.
Do this exercise: pull the "compensation" line for the investment banks (LEH, BSC, GS, MS, MER) over the past ten years. Then take that as a percentage of operating profit (include the business segment writedowns) over the same period.
Also, if you're drawn to an anecdotal argument about the 5-7% transaction fee being risk free, remember that you couldn't have pulled it in without your DCM/ECM teams, and that they couldn't have sold that shit without the firm taking on the lowest tranches on their balance sheet.
Essentially --- no, the other division didn't lose all the money.
Post the model on Google.
Posted by guest , Jan 30, 2009 4:10PM
Too long; didn't read.
Posted by guest , Feb 05, 2009 6:46AM
Do Wall Street bankers feel that they are the only ones working 80 hours a week? I know quite a few managers who consistently work 80 hours a week on a salary of less than $80,000. The country is full of them. Not to mention all of the working families who are either working two jobs or picking up odd jobs and aren't making enough to pay the bills. Stop your whining and take a look at how the rest of the world lives. A big dose of reality would do you good. I hope that the next thing on the agenda is a "living wage" law. Anyone who is getting their tail out of bed and going to work everyday should be able to live above the poverty line in this country.
The thieves on Wall Street have been playing with our money, and living quite well. We are tired of you playing with our money!
Posted by guest , Feb 05, 2009 1:03PM
I follow the sun around the world 5 1/2 days a week trading, the other 1 1/2 days of the week I am studying what idiot is going to say something stupid to make a headline for themselves about oil or inflation or WS bonuses to make my long short or my short long, what central bank is going to do what and which government is failing.
In the few hours I am able to, I take the money I earn and spend it so that those who insist that I make too much can continue to build my cars, sell my wife clothes, my kids video crap and earn their tips from me in the jobs they accepted as their lot in life.
I have never asked one of them to buy my Maalox,Tylenol or vodka, I have never asked one of them to subsidize my education, to keep my home out of foreclosure. I have never asked a single one of them for medical, dental or vision insurance via their tax dollars. They don't pay for my accountant to make sure they get their fair cut of the money I earn from spending all my waking hours providing for my family. They do not pay for my attorney to make sure I follow all the rules and regs of which change is constant .
My wife puts in her 70 or 80 a week in her job and she doesn't have a union making sure she gets a pay raise, she doesn't get to take a union guaranteed lunch break, nor does she get a union guaranteed pension, she earns her lot by performance. She and I have to invest our own funds into vessels that may or may not be profitable for us and we are not guaranteed a lifetime income from a union, government or any company pension when we retire.
If I take time off to go to my sons rugby match I may cost a client his retirement or an increase in his investments, which he has trusted to me to manage, if my wife isn't up to snuff in her job millions of people could lose their identities.
We are just the typical couple who decided to invest in ourselves and work hard so our kids could get decent educations and choose their lot in life, rather than have it decided for them. And all I want to know is when do the salespeople, waitpeople, the dry cleaner, the delivery people and the rest thank me for keeping them employed and for the $200.00 Christmas/Hanukkah bonuses I gave to most of them?
I would like all those bonuses, tips and commissions back now since I apparently didn't earn my own bonuses or the big money I EARNED to support them all these years. It's called clawback for all the times I had to wait on meals, my WSJ was late, my car broke down costing me valuable time and, oh yea, making sure that money kept flowing in and out of the economy just so they could get loans that they want to saddle on my ass now by cheering on tax increases for the "wealthy", see I get to bail them out of their chosen lot in life. I worked hard without overtime or guarantees for my home, nobody cares if I lose it or not, it's too big for them, but it does have my 24 hour a day, 5 1/2 day a week office in it.
My bonuses and salary will not allow me to tip them so well or buy so much stuff from them anymore and I sure can't give $100.00 tips for $100.00 dinners anymore. Forget the gardener, I will have to have my kids do that now, his $1000.00 a month will not be going to his family from me and he'll probably have to lay off a couple of his cheap labor people.
I will wash my own car now, sorry Don and Angie at the car salon, your jobs won't be around long. Good buy hair salon, for all six of us, we'll be seeing you once every six weeks instead of every week, hope you won't be missing that $500.00 a week from me and the boys and the $150.00 a week from the Missus. Lou and Kathy, my wife and I will be cleaning and pressing our own shirts now, but I am glad your daughter got into Princeton, sorry I won't be able to help you pay for it. I'll be picking up my own pizza and liquor from now own, we don't need that delivery guy anymore, sorry about that, I can't afford the insanely over the top tips to help you get through school. And to all the others that relied on me and my family for part of your income, YOUR PAY IS NOW CAPPED AND BONUSES TERMINATED, only because I made to much money to continue supporting you.
Posted by guest , Feb 05, 2009 1:05PM
I follow the sun around the world 5 1/2 days a week trading, the other 1 1/2 days of the week I am studying what idiot is going to say something stupid to make a headline for themselves about oil or inflation or WS bonuses to make my long short or my short long, what central bank is going to do what and which government is failing.
In the few hours I am able to, I take the money I earn and spend it so that those who insist that I make too much can continue to build my cars, sell my wife clothes, my kids video crap and earn their tips from me in the jobs they accepted as their lot in life.
I have never asked one of them to buy my Maalox,Tylenol or vodka, I have never asked one of them to subsidize my education, to keep my home out of foreclosure. I have never asked a single one of them for medical, dental or vision insurance via their tax dollars. They don't pay for my accountant to make sure they get their fair cut of the money I earn from spending all my waking hours providing for my family. They do not pay for my attorney to make sure I follow all the rules and regs of which change is constant .
My wife puts in her 70 or 80 a week in her job and she doesn't have a union making sure she gets a pay raise, she doesn't get to take a union guaranteed lunch break, nor does she get a union guaranteed pension, she earns her lot by performance. She and I have to invest our own funds into vessels that may or may not be profitable for us and we are not guaranteed a lifetime income from a union, government or any company pension when we retire.
If I take time off to go to my sons rugby match I may cost a client his retirement or an increase in his investments, which he has trusted to me to manage, if my wife isn't up to snuff in her job millions of people could lose their identities.
We are just the typical couple who decided to invest in ourselves and work hard so our kids could get decent educations and choose their lot in life, rather than have it decided for them. And all I want to know is when do the salespeople, waitpeople, the dry cleaner, the delivery people and the rest thank me for keeping them employed and for the $200.00 Christmas/Hanukkah bonuses I gave to most of them?
I would like all those bonuses, tips and commissions back now since I apparently didn't earn my own bonuses or the big money I EARNED to support them all these years. It's called clawback for all the times I had to wait on meals, my WSJ was late, my car broke down costing me valuable time and, oh yea, making sure that money kept flowing in and out of the economy just so they could get loans that they want to saddle on my ass now by cheering on tax increases for the "wealthy", see I get to bail them out of their chosen lot in life. I worked hard without overtime or guarantees for my home, nobody cares if I lose it or not, it's too big for them, but it does have my 24 hour a day, 5 1/2 day a week office in it.
My bonuses and salary will not allow me to tip them so well or buy so much stuff from them anymore and I sure can't give $100.00 tips for $100.00 dinners anymore. Forget the gardener, I will have to have my kids do that now, his $1000.00 a month will not be going to his family from me and he'll probably have to lay off a couple of his cheap labor people.
I will wash my own car now, sorry Don and Angie at the car salon, your jobs won't be around long. Good buy hair salon, for all six of us, we'll be seeing you once every six weeks instead of every week, hope you won't be missing that $500.00 a week from me and the boys and the $150.00 a week from the Missus. Lou and Kathy, my wife and I will be cleaning and pressing our own shirts now, but I am glad your daughter got into Princeton, sorry I won't be able to help you pay for it. I'll be picking up my own pizza and liquor from now own, we don't need that delivery guy anymore, sorry about that, I can't afford the insanely over the top tips to help you get through school. And to all the others that relied on me and my family for part of your income, YOUR PAY IS NOW CAPPED AND BONUSES TERMINATED, only because I made to much money to continue supporting you.
Posted by guest , Feb 05, 2009 1:07PM
I follow the sun around the world 5 1/2 days a week trading, the other 1 1/2 days of the week I am studying what idiot is going to say something stupid to make a headline for themselves about oil or inflation or WS bonuses to make my long short or my short long, what central bank is going to do what and which government is failing.
In the few hours I am able to, I take the money I earn and spend it so that those who insist that I make too much can continue to build my cars, sell my wife clothes, my kids video crap and earn their tips from me in the jobs they accepted as their lot in life.
I have never asked one of them to buy my Maalox,Tylenol or vodka, I have never asked one of them to subsidize my education, to keep my home out of foreclosure. I have never asked a single one of them for medical, dental or vision insurance via their tax dollars. They don't pay for my accountant to make sure they get their fair cut of the money I earn from spending all my waking hours providing for my family. They do not pay for my attorney to make sure I follow all the rules and regs of which change is constant .
My wife puts in her 70 or 80 a week in her job and she doesn't have a union making sure she gets a pay raise, she doesn't get to take a union guaranteed lunch break, nor does she get a union guaranteed pension, she earns her lot by performance. She and I have to invest our own funds into vessels that may or may not be profitable for us and we are not guaranteed a lifetime income from a union, government or any company pension when we retire.
If I take time off to go to my sons rugby match I may cost a client his retirement or an increase in his investments, which he has trusted to me to manage, if my wife isn't up to snuff in her job millions of people could lose their identities.
We are just the typical couple who decided to invest in ourselves and work hard so our kids could get decent educations and choose their lot in life, rather than have it decided for them. And all I want to know is when do the salespeople, waitpeople, the dry cleaner, the delivery people and the rest thank me for keeping them employed and for the $200.00 Christmas/Hanukkah bonuses I gave to most of them?
I would like all those bonuses, tips and commissions back now since I apparently didn't earn my own bonuses or the big money I EARNED to support them all these years. It's called clawback for all the times I had to wait on meals, my WSJ was late, my car broke down costing me valuable time and, oh yea, making sure that money kept flowing in and out of the economy just so they could get loans that they want to saddle on my ass now by cheering on tax increases for the "wealthy", see I get to bail them out of their chosen lot in life. I worked hard without overtime or guarantees for my home, nobody cares if I lose it or not, it's too big for them, but it does have my 24 hour a day, 5 1/2 day a week office in it.
My bonuses and salary will not allow me to tip them so well or buy so much stuff from them anymore and I sure can't give $100.00 tips for $100.00 dinners anymore. Forget the gardener, I will have to have my kids do that now, his $1000.00 a month will not be going to his family from me and he'll probably have to lay off a couple of his cheap labor people.
I will wash my own car now, sorry Don and Angie at the car salon, your jobs won't be around long. Good buy hair salon, for all six of us, we'll be seeing you once every six weeks instead of every week, hope you won't be missing that $500.00 a week from me and the boys and the $150.00 a week from the Missus. Lou and Kathy, my wife and I will be cleaning and pressing our own shirts now, but I am glad your daughter got into Princeton, sorry I won't be able to help you pay for it. I'll be picking up my own pizza and liquor from now on, we don't need that delivery guy anymore, sorry that I can't afford the insanely over the top tips to help you get through school anymore. And to all the others that relied on me and my family for part of your income, YOUR PAY IS NOW CAPPED AND BONUSES TERMINATED.
It's only because I made to much money by hard work and sacrifice to continue supporting you.
Posted by guest , Feb 05, 2009 1:11PM
I follow the sun around the world 5 1/2 days a week trading, the other 1 1/2 days of the week I am studying what idiot is going to say something stupid to make a headline for themselves about oil or inflation or WS bonuses to make my long short or my short long, what central bank is going to do what and which government is failing.
In the few hours I am able to, I take the money I earn and spend it so that those who insist that I make too much can continue to build my cars, sell my wife clothes, my kids video crap and earn their tips from me in the jobs they accepted as their lot in life.
I have never asked one of them to buy my Maalox,Tylenol or vodka, I have never asked one of them to subsidize my education, to keep my home out of foreclosure. I have never asked a single one of them for medical, dental or vision insurance via their tax dollars. They don't pay for my accountant to make sure they get their fair cut of the money I earn from spending all my waking hours providing for my family. They do not pay for my attorney to make sure I follow all the rules and regs of which change is constant .
My wife puts in her 70 or 80 a week in her job and she doesn't have a union making sure she gets a pay raise, she doesn't get to take a union guaranteed lunch break, nor does she get a union guaranteed pension, she earns her lot by performance. She and I have to invest our own funds into vessels that may or may not be profitable for us and we are not guaranteed a lifetime income from a union, government or any company pension when we retire.
If I take time off to go to my sons rugby match I may cost a client his retirement or an increase in his investments, which he has trusted to me to manage, if my wife isn't up to snuff in her job millions of people could lose their identities.
We are just the typical couple who decided to invest in ourselves and work hard so our kids could get decent educations and choose their lot in life, rather than have it decided for them. And all I want to know is when do the salespeople, waitpeople, the dry cleaner, the delivery people and the rest thank me for keeping them employed and for the $200.00 Christmas/Hanukkah bonuses I gave to most of them?
I would like all those bonuses, tips and commissions back now since I apparently didn't earn my own bonuses or the big money I EARNED to support them all these years. It's called clawback for all the times I had to wait on meals, my WSJ was late, my car broke down costing me valuable time and, oh yea, making sure that money kept flowing in and out of the economy just so they could get loans that they want to saddle on my ass now by cheering on tax increases for the "wealthy", see I get to bail them out of their chosen lot in life. I worked hard without overtime or guarantees for my home, nobody cares if I lose it or not, it's too big for them, but it does have my 24 hour a day, 5 1/2 day a week office in it.
My bonuses and salary will not allow me to tip them so well or buy so much stuff from them anymore and I sure can't give $100.00 tips for $100.00 dinners anymore. Forget the gardener, I will have to have my kids do that now, his $1000.00 a month will not be going to his family from me and he'll probably have to lay off a couple of his cheap labor people.
I will wash my own car now, sorry Don and Angie at the car salon, your jobs won't be around long. Good buy hair salon, for all six of us, we'll be seeing you once every six weeks instead of every week, hope you won't be missing that $500.00 a week from me and the boys and the $150.00 a week from the Missus. Lou and Kathy, my wife and I will be cleaning and pressing our own shirts now, but I am glad your daughter got into Princeton, sorry I won't be able to help you pay for it. I'll be picking up my own pizza and liquor from now on, we don't need that delivery guy anymore, sorry that I can't afford the insanely over the top tips to help you get through school anymore. And to all the others that relied on me and my family for part of your income, YOUR PAY IS NOW CAPPED AND BONUSES TERMINATED.
It's only because I made too much money by hard work and sacrifice that I can no longer continue supporting you and yours.
Posted by guest , Feb 05, 2009 1:14PM
I follow the sun around the world 5 1/2 days a week trading, the other 1 1/2 days of the week I am studying what idiot is going to say something stupid to make a headline for themselves about oil or inflation or WS bonuses to make my long short or my short long, what central bank is going to do what and which government is failing.
In the few hours I am able to, I take the money I earn and spend it so that those who insist that I make too much can continue to build my cars, sell my wife clothes, my kids video crap and earn their tips from me in the jobs they accepted as their lot in life.
I have never asked one of them to buy my Maalox,Tylenol or vodka, I have never asked one of them to subsidize my education, to keep my home out of foreclosure. I have never asked a single one of them for medical, dental or vision insurance via their tax dollars. They don't pay for my accountant to make sure they get their fair cut of the money I earn from spending all my waking hours providing for my family. They do not pay for my attorney to make sure I follow all the rules and regs of which change is constant .
My wife puts in her 70 or 80 a week in her job and she doesn't have a union making sure she gets a pay raise, she doesn't get to take a union guaranteed lunch break, nor does she get a union guaranteed pension, she earns her lot by performance. She and I have to invest our own funds into vessels that may or may not be profitable for us and we are not guaranteed a lifetime income from a union, government or any company pension when we retire.
If I take time off to go to my sons rugby match I may cost a client his retirement or an increase in his investments, which he has trusted to me to manage, if my wife isn't up to snuff in her job millions of people could lose their identities.
We are just the typical couple who decided to invest in ourselves and work hard so our kids could get decent educations and choose their lot in life, rather than have it decided for them. And all I want to know is when do the salespeople, waitpeople, the dry cleaner, the delivery people and the rest thank me for keeping them employed and for the $200.00 Christmas/Hanukkah bonuses I gave to most of them?
I would like all those bonuses, tips and commissions back now since I apparently didn't earn my own bonuses or the big money I EARNED to support them all these years. It's called clawback for all the times I had to wait on meals, my WSJ was late, my car broke down costing me valuable time and, oh yea, making sure that money kept flowing in and out of the economy just so they could get loans that they want to saddle on my ass now by cheering on tax increases for the "wealthy", see I get to bail them out of their chosen lot in life. I worked hard without overtime or guarantees for my home, nobody cares if I lose it or not, it's too big for them, but it does have my 24 hour a day, 5 1/2 day a week office in it.
My bonuses and salary will not allow me to tip them so well or buy so much stuff from them anymore and I sure can't give $100.00 tips for $100.00 dinners anymore. Forget the gardener, I will have to have my kids do that now, his $1000.00 a month will not be going to his family from me and he'll probably have to lay off a couple of his cheap labor people.
I will wash my own car now, sorry Don and Angie at the car salon, your jobs won't be around long. Good buy hair salon, for all six of us, we'll be seeing you once every six weeks instead of every week, hope you won't be missing that $500.00 a week from me and the boys and the $150.00 a week from the Missus. Lou and Kathy, my wife and I will be cleaning and pressing our own shirts now, but I am glad your daughter got into Princeton, sorry I won't be able to help you pay for it. I'll be picking up my own pizza and liquor from now on, we don't need that delivery guy anymore, sorry that I can't afford the insanely over the top tips to help you get through school anymore. And to all the others that relied on me and my family for part of your income, YOUR PAY IS NOW CAPPED AND BONUSES TERMINATED.
It's only because I made too much money by hard work and sacrifice that I can no longer continue supporting you and yours.
Posted by guest , Feb 06, 2009 4:15PM
I rarely read something so stupid.
Do you really think you bankers are supporting the economy?
Sorry guy but you will see that in the medium-long run the disappearance of your overpaying things (meals, flats, etc) will be very good for everybody because it will stop inflation, enable people with mean wages to afford buying a flat, and so on.
I cannot believe you think you are supporting the economy.
Finance does not create any WEALTH. It should enable industries to finance wealth creation but instead of that it has become a world of its own with stupid men like you just seeking to earn more and more (anyone who knows a friend in M&A knows that M&A men look for money, they really don't care about the long term result of the merger or acquisition they pitch.
YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM MAN!
The victims are all the people who have been doing their job seriously for long years and now fired because you screwed up, and we let you screwed up by not regulating you enough.
And now you want public money to pay for your bonuses???????????????
Please take some distance and think about what you write.
No, bankers can't think. They don't have a brain, they just can Excel and Powerpoint.
Posted by guest , Feb 13, 2009 10:21AM
#200..you're a dipshit. Go dunk your head in a bucket of reality. 199 is spot on (though your inflation comment is correct). I live in London. Take out the City earners and you can forget this and likely the regional economy. It's already happening. Pick up a textbook and learn about the multiplier effect of money in the system. (Unfortunately) it makes the world go round. You think because 199 is "chasing" money as you put it that his job is any less serious than other jobs. Don't confuse yourself with the notion that as many WS professionals don't produce a physical object their jobs provide no value to the world.
Pop quiz - take banking (in all it's forms) away from the world. see howw long it takes for everything else to fall over...
Posted by guest , Feb 16, 2009 4:35PM
@201 We need banks of course, as intermediaries between peoplewe who have money to invest and people who need money to invest, but we don't need overcompensated IBbankers or traders who are just interested in their bonuses and not in the long term effects of their deeds.
Please go learn some economics.
Bankers put us in the shit but they won't, take us out of it.
They cry for the government, the taxpayer, to help them.
Good liberals would consider that banks should be let going bankrupt. That's the law of the market. Go out of your shit by yourself!
Unfortunately you can't, you van just put the whole economy in the shit.
That's why regulation is needed.