Really, this is not such a big deal. We consulted with a professional and apparently it’s pretty standard when you’re dealing with late-stage untreated syphilis, which means it can only help us come court time. Bloomberg reports:
Bernard Madoff accepted $10 million from a new investor just six days before he was charged with running a $50 billion Ponzi scheme, according to a lawsuit seeking return of the funds.
Martin Rosenman, president of Bronx, New York-based Stuyvesant Fuel Service Corp., revealed new details about Madoff’s actions in the days before his firm’s collapse in a complaint filed yesterday in U.S. bankruptcy court in Manhattan.
Rosenman Family LLC, of which Martin Rosenman is the managing member, sued Irving Picard, the trustee appointed to supervise the unwinding of Madoff’s business, seeking a ruling that Picard has no claim to the $10 million. Rosenman, who hadn’t previously invested with Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, spoke by phone with Madoff Dec. 3 about investing, according to court papers.
“Madoff stated that the fund was closed until Jan. 1, 2009, but that Mr. Rosenman could wire money” before that date into a Madoff firm account, according to the complaint. Rosenman alleged he received a fax from Madoff Securities employee Jodi Crupi on Dec. 5 that told him to transfer funds to a JPMorgan Chase & Co. account, which he did.
On Dec. 9, Rosenman received a confirmation from Madoff Securities telling him he’d sold short $10 million in U.S. Treasury bills, a transaction he “never authorized,” according to the court filing.
Confused
@1- about what? madoff accepted $10 million from a new investor a few days before he confessed to the whole thing.
There is a special corner of hell reserved for this clown.
Bemused.
If you didn’t already wish a raging case of the herps on Madoff, there is this.
Why would you send a confirm to a client, when you were stealing his money and not actually doing the trade in the first place?
Can Mafe-Off be sent to Guantanamo as an enemy combatant? He would be well received by the brotherhood.
Chop Shop move…Bernie moving up on my deathpool.
I recall mailing Bernie $250m in cash on the day he was arressted. Where do I file my claim?
@3, 6:
We established Madoff is a hero of the republic, doing gods work to disaggregate wealth from stupidity.
Agreed with VOL @ #9, a fool and his money, lucky enough to get together in the 1st place.
9/10
Pretty simplistic viewpoint, don’t you think?
Sorry I could not resist, the Bernie money dance:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=28c_1230704298
@9, @10: If you were robbed of your own money on a street corner, wouldn’t you want your $20 back?
Why is it that when the number is $2 mil, all of a sudden it’s “stupid rich people”. I hope like hell that I earn enough money to stop working, or else why am I in finance (and why are YOU – if not to make money) and not teaching or writing novels or any other of the 5,000 things I’d rather be doing with my life rather than support me and my family.
I’m not saying all the investors were Albert Schweitzers. But there are a lot of self-made people who lost their shirts after years of work. And Elie Wiesel? Is he a fool? There were brains in that bunch.
good for a laugh-
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11488
Summary: Madoff was legit and just lost all the money in the market and is lying about the scam so his investors can get some of their money back from the IRS/feeder funds/etc…
Madoff did his part to end the disparity of wealth in America
@12: that is beyond disturbing. It’s that painful “can’t look away” like you’re watching the male dancers in Swan Lake.
@9 — Right on.
@9,10
What would the Noels contribution to this comedy be? They were the middlemen (sheperds ?) that exposed a whole boat load of people to the sharp end – deserved or not…
@11
No, being “outraged” that rich stupid people lost their money is simplistic. They turned a blind eye to Bernie because they did not wish to see. Our nation is plagued with the idiot sons of enterprising men, who’s inherited position lends sufficient strength to their spectacular failures that we all suffer the consequences.
We can only hope another Madoff is currently having his way with the Bush and Kennedy family fortunes that we might be rid them once a for all.
@18 Divine Comedy
@13:
I’ve already made enough money not to work anymore. And I specifically do not give that money to other people so they can steal it or lose it in the market.
@19
A lot of the investors who lost money are not “stupid” they are just sophisticated in a different (and arguably better) way than you are.
It is a question of trust, not of intelligence.
The real question you should be asking yourself is if esteemed doctors, lawyers and business operators can no longer place trust in the financial management system, how long until we are all out of jobs?
@22 Speaking of Jobs, wideclops wants to see you in her office
@22:
If you trust other people then you are a stupid. I certainly don’t trust my doctors and sure as hell wouldn’t trust a lawyer. If you just assume that everyone is trying to steal from you, you don’t have these madoff type problems. Its basic game theory, no finance required.
@ VOL I see a pre-nup in your future.
VOL IS KING:
You don’t trust your doctor? SO if you have an appendicitis attack, or (God forbid) get a disease like cancer – at some point, aren’t you going to HAVE to trust someone to do something you are not qualified to do?
There were legions of lawyers, doctors, etc. invested with Madoff. They made the decision that they’d rather have an expert manage their money.
And if you assume “everyone is trying to steal from you”, then you need to start wearing tin foil on your head.
I’ve got a couple of kids, a full-time job, etc. – there are things I don’t have time for. So they get outsourced. I don’t tune up my car myself, I don’t always cook dinners, etc. I guess I could then slap my head if my car get stolen or if I got food poisoning.
But you can’t blame ALL THOSE INVESTORS for losing their money. Blanket statements like that fry my tail. Think for a minute if Elie Wiesel, or the Picower Foundation, should assume people would steal from them.
@22
Sophisticated in what different way? Clearly many have yet to grasp finance for non-finance majors 101, e.g. diversify yo’ bonds, motha f*cka!
@13
Poor comparison. If someone walked up and robbed me of my $20 yes, I’d want it back. But if I gave all the money in my wallet, say the same $20 to someone who said they’d pay me back in an hr with $30, and they never came back, then I’m a douchebag and deserve to deal with the consequences of my greed and stupidity.
@27: I don’t think +8%/year is the same as a 50% return in an hour. And it wasn’t a promise. They had no idea if one year he’d be down 20%.
@25:
Nope. Not getting married. I don’t trust other people and I just assume who ever I married would leave me if shit ever hit the fan.
@26:
Its not that I THINK everyone will try to steal from me. Its that in assuming everyone will steal from me I have a frame work to manage risk. If they don’t steal from me then BONUS but if they do steal from me I have already limited my risk based on the assumption they were trying to.
As for doctors. As someone with some health problems, I can tell you doctors are very often wrong. If you go to two doctors with the same symptoms you will often get two different diagnosis. Its not that they are intentionally, trying to screw me. But once you realize the doctors are JUST GUESSING, then you will quickly stop trusting them.
@28
I see what you’re saying but give me a freaking break. There was no possible way utilizing the strategy he claimed to be using to generate such high and smooth returns. That is why people like Aksia threw the bullsh!t flag. He might as well have been promising guaranteed 50% returns, the final analysis was the same: he was full of sh!t, and those who invested with him were 1) aware and didn’t care so long as they got paid, and/or 2) greedy morons.
End of story.
More information !!! Different story.
“Madoff stated that the fund was closed until Jan. 1, 2009, but that Mr. Rosenman could wire money” before that date into a Madoff firm account, according to the complaint. Rosenman alleged he received a fax from Madoff Securities employee Jodi Crupi on Dec. 5 that told him to transfer funds to a JPMorgan Chase & Co. account, which he did.
On Dec. 9, Rosenman received a confirmation from Madoff Securities telling him he’d sold short $10 million in U.S. Treasury bills, a transaction he “never authorized,” according to the court filing.
‘CUSIP Number’
“The confirmation contains a CUSIP number (an identification number) for the transaction,” Rosenman said in his complaint. “Multiple electronic searches for securities under this number have shown that it does not exist. In other words, BMIS never transacted a trade of U.S. Treasury Bills,” on Rosenman’s behalf, according to the suit.
A phone message left for Crupi wasn’t immediately returned. The day after Rosenman received the trade confirmation
@29: as a happily married person, I feel bad for you (and this is not a flame). There is something nice about trusting that someone will always be there for you. So maybe that makes me the greater fool. I too have had health issues (4 major surgeries, now 100% fine) and went to lots of doctors. There is a big difference between “not trusting” and “getting second opinion”.
@30:
I guess this goes for both 29 and 30. I just don’t think you can tar everyone with the same brush. You can’t expect a Foundation to know that 8%/year is unrealistic (not every charity has a consultant, thank God), or for a Nazi-hunter to sit down with a spreadsheet. Hate all you want, but there are plenty of innocents there, and I don’t think they were all greedy. I would think they would say they were “playing it safe” by not throwing money at the Citadels and AQRs and Tontines of this world as was the fad the past decade.
Look, I’m done defending people I don’t know. My issue is people saying “they all deserved it”. As a Jew and someone who worships at Elie Wiesel’s altar, it is just wrong to say he is a “greedy moron” or that the Picower Foundation who dedicates itself to finding cures, “deserves” to be shut down.
@32:
But which is worse? I think that doctors may make a mistake and kill me while i’m sleeping. Bernie Madoff just took people’s money. I have much less “trust” for doctors than for Madoffs.
As for marriages, some of them work, i’m happy for you. To me marriage and children are liabilities not assets.
Just out on Bbg – the SEC is investigating a new $1B ponzi scheme. No details on who it is…
looks like Elie “the” Wiesel may have deserved it:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010219/hitchens
I don’t think anyone has trusted Wall Street since at least the dot-com bubble. The past 10 years it’s been about getting in early and on the right side of whatever scam is being cooked up. Bernie pulled a good one on some long-time scam artists. Kinda like that movie “The Sting”.
Elie, is that you?
@ 35
WTF is that long-winded drivel?
@32
If you’re investing millions and don’t understand the basic concept of not putting all your eggs in one basket, and age-old maxims like “if it sounds too good to be true it probably is”, then you’re setting yourself up to get fleeced, and you never should have been in such a position in the first place.
Seriously, just because some investors were “good people” doesn’t mean they weren’t really really stupid, shortsighted, greedy, etc, etc, ad nauseum
Madoff’s investors knew he had to be screwing someone to get his returns. They thought he was front running. Thus it’s hard to feel sorry for them now that they’ve found out they were the marks.
Trust, schmust.
2008 is over, and high-yield investment strategy is back to zero in 2009. Once these fucks are flushed out of the system for good (and there are still more Bernies out there)maybe, just maybe, dumb rich folks will finally learn: if you can’t afford to lose it, don’t get in the game in the first place!
Mr. Rosenman has investment timing down to a science. Oy vey!!
What’s the Vegas line on Madoff living past Jan 30th?
@42:
You don’t think “they’ll” keep him alive in hopes there’s money in a Swiss bank account somewhere?
43: “They” already know that the Wife is the one who knows where the hooch is stashed. At this point, Madoff’s dead to everyone anyway. Hint: bet the stash is not in Switzerland, try Venezuela, bitches!
Oooo, now we can play “Where in the World are the Madoff Millions!”
Blue Horseshoe loves Hugo Chavez
Well, we know the money MUst not be buried in MUstique!
VIK — wholeheartedly agree with you on the doctors thing. I’d say their success rate is probably the same as with auto mechanics. They might solve your problem or you very well could be back in the shop in a couple of weeks for additional repairs. Or even worse, recommend a treatment plan which after several months and several thousand dollars doesn’t work.
If people were investing with Bernie because they thought he was frontrunning to get his returns, then yes they should lose their money.
If you want a frontrunner, then everyone knows you go to Goldman, shesh.
OK already!
Latitude 25.2 south x Longitude 133.21 west. Big black trunk buried on top of hill.
Just get Bernie out of the house already! He’s driving me nuts.
Ruth
@48:
Or even worse still misdiagnose the illness and recommend a treatment who’s side effects cause additional health problems without having any benefits.
Hmmm this talk of diagnostic/experimental medicine sounds (yea its about time I know) erily similar to the financial/economic machinations of the Treasury/Fed, with likely very similar odds no doubt
Dudes, the recession’s total over. That’s so 2008. Let party and buy some stocks.
I’m predicting DOW 13k by July.
@53: Once hyperinflation kicks in, we’ll see Dow 13M.
Don’t believe me? In Zimbabwe the stock market goes up by 257% in a DAY.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/22/AR2008102203536.html
I don’t think there is much money “stashed”… you guys really think it’s that easy to stash billions of dollars undetected? Try again.
@55
Thanks for the heads up.
@ 55
you’re right, he must have just been co-investing with Bill Miller
@55:
I don’t think he actually stashed it, I’m sure he pissed it away in the market. But on the off chance there is a stash, why not keep him alive?
@ 58
actually, it was used to pay previous ponzi investors + $200mm for himself + was pissed away, no?
@46 Lmao
@55 no, not easy but given the international scope of their wealth network, who knows how many times this money has been laundered. the us gov’t has billions of dollars unaccounted for -it isn’t impossible.