As previously mentioned, in tough times like these, not in lieu of but perhaps in conjuntion with professional counseling, we invite you to lay down on the Dealbreaker couch and let it all out. If anyone else has a grievance they’d like to work through and/or more widely disseminate, send it our way. From the mailbag:
Much like BofA, the legacy Barclays folks got screwed this bonus season. Barcap bonus numbers were ~50% of what the Lehman people got, with 50% of that lower number deferred over the next two years, making the Barcap folks all feel like second class citizens.
Now what you may not be aware of, is that Barcap also switched over to the Lehman analyst system (3 years and you’re out if you don’t get an associate offer). By some magical coincidence (AKA 10-person analyst promotion board composed 80% ex-Lehmanites), hardly any of the third year Barcap analysts got promotion offers. They are being told that if they did not get a promotion offer, they will be done in June and will not be receiving any of the deferred portion of their comp. I don’t know why you would put a number down on paper, just to slide it across a table to tell the person that this is what they will NOT be receiving, but that’s exactly what they did.
When the numbers were being given out, many of the analysts were told by their group heads that the deferral had originated in London, that they honestly didn’t think London had thought it through properly, and that they were going to fight to cancel the deferral for analysts. These same group heads have quietly gone back on their words. If an organization is going to (forgive my french) ASSFUCK analysts the way Barcap just did, I think people joining up should know.
These dead banks are like a cancerous growth in a formerly healthy host.
This is why there’s a godiva store below. Kill the pain with a truffle.
Career opportunities, the ones that never knock!
Too many chiefs, not enough indians
Could it be because they realize the talent level of ex-LEH ppl is much higher than the legacy BarCap ppl? BarCap wants to be an investment bank and they need the LEH ppl to do it.
As of today, I am officially a Lobsterman.
#6 nailed it.
Just walk across the street to Jamba Juice and complain with ex-MS employees.
7,
I don’t even know what that means, but I like the sound of it.
Frightening thought: what would you call the offspring of Wideclops and Lobsterman? Widesterman? Lobsterclops?
My name is Yosser Hughes. C’mon, gissa job.
Now shake hands:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6I8-0eDxaY
Barclays folks they wanted to retain got the title, and severely reduced comp.
#6 are you kidding. The talent that destroyed Lehman is better than Barclays. The Lehman culture and people are the biggest joke on the street.
Gasbags just reported that Barney Frank wears a mirdle.
Just to be clear. No one, inlcuding those receiveing associate offers, will EVER see any of that money. You are being suckered into continue working while the bank gets wound down.
I am ex-Lehman (and by ex I mean I left in ’03), and the talent there was extremely high. It still does not excuse screwing those at the acquiring (i.e. VICTOR) bank.
I think it would have to be Lobsterclops.
@ 14, get back on the boat
It makes sense that people who worked for the most screwed up bank get the biggest bonuses on the street – I’ve heard big numbers (relatively speaking) coming out of Lehman. Who needs a bailout?
14, you are contradicting yourself
the talent that was at leh is already gone
@14, bitter much? Sorry chap.
I am long Lobsterclops.
14 – you are an idiot. Go spew your ignorant nonsense on a site for others like you who obviously don’t work in the industry.
A handful of Lehman execs destroyed that bank, other than those morons Lehman had some of the best talent on the street. It was a globally respected top tier firm and that is why Barclays (and Nomura) were all over it when the RE and Mortgage guys took down the whole shop.
Jefferies owns all yall naysayers!
wideplops
Fuckmelobsterpunanibootclops
But we have to pay bonuses otherwise the talent will go to our competitors!
Lobstermen are getting killed these days, too ya know….
Trust the Gordon’s fisherman.
Lobsteclops…that’s going to replace the whale in my nightmares
I’m a Lobsterman, what is a’ butter?
Here comes the PINCH!
Forget lobster, go for King Crabs in Alaska.
Too much turf, didn’t surf.
(new low)
@9 …well played sir, very well played….
Too much turf, didn’t surf.
(new low)
Too much quadruple commenting
Too much quadruple commenting
Too much quadruple commenting
Too much quadruple commenting
Too much quadruple commenting
Well if it makes you feel any better word is ex-Lehman Houston bankers got contracts with bonus numbers much higher than ex-Lehman New York bankers…ouch. Oh and all MDs and SVPs got 2 year contracts, that was not the case for NY senior bankers.
Unfortunately all 3rd year analysts have been ass-fucked at every bank except MS during this crisis.
I had a 3rd yr IBD offer at GS and had my offer taken away 2 weeks before my 3rd year was supposed to start last summer. Butchered bonus and a pat on the back to motivate me to find a new gig at the list minute…
Infuriating when you see MS didn’t do that and instead waited to get some of that TARP and instead give buyout offers. Ghey.
Unfortunately all 3rd year analysts have been ass-fucked at every bank except MS during this crisis.
I had a 3rd yr IBD offer at GS and had my offer taken away 2 weeks before my 3rd year was supposed to start last summer. Butchered bonus and a pat on the back to motivate me to find a new gig at the list minute…
Infuriating when you see MS didn’t do that and instead used some of that TARP to give buyout offers. Ghey.
Why so Seafood?
Well if it make you feel any better word is ex-Lehman Houston bankers got bonus numbers much higher than the ex-Lehman New York bankers. Oh and all MDs and SVPs got 2 year contracts…that was not the case for the New York bankers. So I am sure there are still a lot of pissed off ex-Lehman New York bankers because they know about this.
Well if it make you feel any better word is ex-Lehman Houston bankers got bonus numbers much higher than the ex-Lehman New York bankers. Oh and all MDs and SVPs got 2 year contracts…that was not the case for the New York bankers. So I am sure there are still a lot of pissed off ex-Lehman New York bankers because they know about this.
any sprint points?
Boy, a Euro bank treats its analysts like crap, quel surprise!
I am shocked, SHOCKED to hear they pay lower bonuses!!
Lehman talent is much better at the higher levels (VP and up) — no question.
Analysts are different. There are two types of analysts: competent and incompetent, and they exist at every firm. Any analyst that believes otherwise is believing their own bullshit and well on their way to becoming an MD…
I’m a European living in Dallas. What is MD?
Hey #43, more info please. I heard the same thing, but then I heard the “guaranteed” bonuses got cut in December
Remember that when Barclays purchased Lehman assets in September, they signed a contract with the trustee and receiver that all ex-Lehman employees, if let go, would be paid regular bonuses and termination pay as if they were Lehman employees. They told the court that they had 2.5 billion of exposure for that, and which suggested the very low price paid to obtain, for example, the valuable Lehman equity trading operations and bond index group.
Barclays then sucked in a lot of ex-Lehman employees, then terminating them just before Christmas, giving them 10% to 20% of the prior years bonus, and forcing them to sign releases to receive even the termination pay that they had agreed to pay already in the court approved agreement.
So, who got screwed – certainly the Lehman creditors who should have been paid more for the assets and then the ex-Lehman employees.
As to quality, most Barclay’s employees would be on the C list and would have been lucky to be interviewed at Lehman. Go check out the educational background of the 5 top people at Barclays and you will get an idea of pedestrian. In deciding who to let go, it was as much political rather than merit based and a lot of good people, better than their Barclays peers, were forced out.
So, oh well, that is life – the good people who left are being picked up and Barclays in the end will wonder why it purchased Lehman.
The best thing to have happened with Lehman would have been to have a government takeover, receivership, screw the shareholders (which include many a Lehman employee) and keep the operating companies operating as before. – oh yeah – get a real board of directors.
The bondholder would get the near zero value real estate assets invested by the Fuld and the holding company and approved by the brain dead board, and would get share in a New Co – they would have ended up with far more than they got, Lehman would still be operating,
What if – well, that is what needs to be done for Citi and AIG – the faster the better.
Remember that when Barclays purchased Lehman assets in September, they signed a contract with the trustee and receiver that all ex-Lehman employees, if let go, would be paid regular bonuses and termination pay as if they were Lehman employees. They told the court that they had 2.5 billion of exposure for that, and which suggested the very low price paid to obtain, for example, the valuable Lehman equity trading operations and bond index group.
Barclays then sucked in a lot of ex-Lehman employees, then terminating them just before Christmas, giving them 10% to 20% of the prior years bonus, and forcing them to sign releases to receive even the termination pay that they had agreed to pay already in the court approved agreement.
So, who got screwed – certainly the Lehman creditors who should have been paid more for the assets and then the ex-Lehman employees.
As to quality, most Barclay’s employees would be on the C list and would have been lucky to be interviewed at Lehman. Go check out the educational background of the 5 top people at Barclays and you will get an idea of pedestrian. In deciding who to let go, it was as much political rather than merit based and a lot of good people, better than their Barclays peers, were forced out.
So, oh well, that is life – the good people who left are being picked up and Barclays in the end will wonder why it purchased Lehman.
The best thing to have happened with Lehman would have been to have a government takeover, receivership, screw the shareholders (which include many a Lehman employee) and keep the operating companies operating as before. – oh yeah – get a real board of directors.
The bondholder would get the near zero value real estate assets invested by the Fuld and the holding company and approved by the brain dead board, and would get share in a New Co – they would have ended up with far more than they got, Lehman would still be operating,
What if – well, that is what needs to be done for Citi and AIG – the faster the better.
Does anyone know if Bobby Jones has a guarantee?
i find this pretty funny as an ex-leh person at barcap. i don’t know any ex-leh person that had even remotely decent comp numbers. leh comp was down significantly with a lot of people i know getting 0-yes ZERO…zero bonus, zero raise…jus a big F-U. what makes it even funnier is that the people that were laid off…including the last round that was done in January…all got their severance and a percentage of last year’s bonus, which in most cases was 30%. So, I would really love to know why and how the people that are gone got 30% while the people that are still here got nothing. So yea, our balance sheet is strong, barcap made money, and we got 2.5bn from Leh for payroll, bonuses, and severance money for LEH people, but sorry we can’t pay you this year. In my opinion, most ex-leh people got royally screwed by Barcap.
#53, 43 here…no way that is not what I heard and I have a pretty reliable source. Maybe that is what people are telling the ex-Lehman NY bankers to make them feel better.
@57, you are suggesting that most of the info on the bulletin board is BS, I can’t believe it. I must be the patsy.
@51, I’m in complete agreement with you on the analyst observation.
57 here. Yes, I think this is total BS and doesn’t match up with what I’m seeing and hearing from inside the company.
57 here. Yes, I think this is total BS and doesn’t match up with what I’m seeing and hearing from inside the company.
57 here. Yes, I think this is total BS and doesn’t match up with what I’m seeing and hearing from inside the company.
Does anyone want my hot lunch?
Chaz Gaslobster
51 = incompetent
beeyaow
Hey kids, let me break it down in simple terms. A year ago there were (1) talented people at Lehman, (2) talented people at Barclays, (3) deadweights at Lehman, (4) deadweights at Barclays. Right now, after multiple rounds of layoffs, it is safe to say that the only ones left are (1) and (2). People need to get over themselves on this. Stop arguing in broad generalizations about who is better than who based on your limited personal experience. Seriously.
Having said that, the legacy Barcap bankers got screwed in the bonus round. As a top performing associate (my ex-LEH MD’s words), I got paid a smaller cash portion than middle-tier LEH analysts. That is a tragedy and when it happens across the firm it is divisive. Part of HR’s job is to manage the culture (in what small ways they can) and right now they are doing a pretty poor job. The sooner people stop identifying themselves as “legacy-lehman” or “legacy-barclays” the better, and THIS IS NOT HELPING. So if anyone in HR is reading this, FIX YOUR MESS.
@57, 61-63: i used to work for lehman and the people there are too smart to triple post. it’s an impostor!
@60 – first of all you sound like carlton from the fresh prince. Secondly -bullshit, there is massive difference in quality of analysts and associates in ibd, i tell you this as a pe guy that works with them a lot, there is generally a world of difference between a a GS and a citigroup guy
Have to agree with #57, I am also an ex-LEH at BarCap and this was pretty much what happened. On top of that the ex-LEH people who were told they would get at least something were told they would receive it today, big surprise it didn’t come…check must be in the mail…or there just wasn’t any cash leftover after renovating all of the floors at the new HQ on seventh ave, that building is about 7 or 8 yrs old so it really needed it, especially during these times. I wonder if John Thain consulted on the decorating.
66 just about summed it up perfectly
66 just about summed it up perfectly
not an imposter and yes, i apologize for triple posting. the page kept timing out and telling me it couldn’t be displayed.
haven’t seen this on DB yet, but it was posted on clusterstock yesterday. someone else that feels they got screwed by Barcap…
http://www.businessinsider.com/trader-demands-19-million-bucks-from-barclays-2009-2
To 69- I was told payday was Monday.
There are a range of pay schemes at Barcap that depend not just on whether you were legacy lehman or barcap, but also what division you are in
@66
MD call every associate “top performing” to his face in private – its free and makes the associate drewl all over himself out of enthousiasm and run even faster. there is only one indication of appreciation/performance and that is cold hard $.
@66: Agree. However HR at Barcap and even the former Lehman people suck such major ass. Don’t expect them to lift so much as a finger.
66 got it absolutely right. I am sorry to deflate the egos of the “ex-leh” folks but no, you were not the most talented bankers in the world and no, barclays as it stands today is not filled with “C” players — all that is left from the barcap side are “A” players (95%, since there are ALWAYS folks that are able to get by on other means at all firms).
The only take-away I have from sitting with these lehman folks over the past few months is that they live in a dream world, where they were convinced that they were the greatest firm in the world and run by the most brilliant bankers on the street — the reality could hardly be more different. Lehman bankers believe that deals fall in their laps, that success is not “earned every day” (as it happens to be the motto of Barc) and that all it takes to succeed is throwing a shtload of coverage bankers at a client rather than actually thinking and providing real solutions and real value-added work.
The lehman culture is the most cancerous crp I have come across in 10 years on wall street. There is no meritocracy — you arent promoted or paid based on performance but on who you know. Barclays, unfortunately, lost a great culture when they bought the piece of garbage that is lehman.
Go ahead, let the lehmanites come at me in force….
74 is right. I have two buddies who are MDs at banks (actually, older bro’s buddies). they use “top performer” tag on at least the top half
i work at barcap and have been really impressed with my lehman colleagues overall. barcap in general has way too many managers and MDs…way too many cooks in the kitchen and it makes for a lot of politics and a lot of red tape. the bns this year was the worst i’ve seen in a very long time. i was down over 70% and yet was given a “A” performance review. for now its a job and i’m glad to have one. i think there will be a lot of turnover when the market picks up. it was a mistake to include that deferred bns crap
#14 – Don’t hate ex-Lehman people for having talent… and don’t hate BarCap for realizing that. What happened to the economy was systemic, not limited to Lehman. Lehman was the sacrificial lamb – a decision made by ill prepared “policy makers’. They were warned about what it would really mean to let Lehman go under… Let’s move and get over it… these conversations are so September 10th!
#14 – Don’t hate ex-Lehman people for having talent… and don’t hate BarCap for realizing that. What happened to the economy was systemic, not limited to Lehman. Lehman was the sacrificial lamb – a decision made by ill prepared “policy makers’. They were warned about what it would really mean to let Lehman go under… Let’s move and get over it… these conversations are so September 10th!
76 is right…I used to work at Lehman and now work at GS. At LEH, the crap we use to show clients was worthless, no real thought provoking ideas but rather just following what everyone else is doing.
What is so sad is that there are so many disgruntled ex-LEH senior bankers at Barclays. Most are looking at other opportunities now b/c they are not locked into their LEH stock anymore.
Good luck Barclays!
@ 55: Your assessment of Barcap people is way off. Claiming that Barcap is “C list”? Come on….How about the areas where Barcap was superior to Lehman prior to the takeover?
In areas like Commodities, for example, Barclays was one of the top global players while Lehman was far behind the power curve. I assure you the people in Barclays’ Commodities group were of equal, if not higher, caliber than the majority of Lehman people. For years Barclays was one of the top 3 global debt underwriters, and far more accomplished than Lehman. Again, I’m pretty sure the people in that area are well qualified to do their job.
And your comment about educational background was absolutely incorrect. Barcap gets the majority of their recruits from top schools like Wharton, HBS, Chicago, etc. just like Lehman did.
And last, for the poster who said that above VP-level Barcap people were not qualified: how do you think those people got to Barclays in the first place?
Barcap has only been in existence for 10 years. They hired away some of the best and brightest from every other bank on Wall Street. So ever senior person at Barclays came from places like Goldman, Stanley, Lehman, etc. Wasn’t one of the biggest perks of working on the Street to ability to be successful and then be bought out by a rival firm and have the opportunity to run your own show?
Your comments on people’s qualifications sound like the idiotic rants of prestige-obsessed undergrads that seem to run rampant on internet message boards these days…..
#76, how many times did you send your resume to Lehman Brothers… c’mon… tell the truth!
The sad thing is we all judge ourselves by the size of our bonuses. It does not matter if we are C players or A players, all it comes down to is year end comp. Let face it this industry is dying, this banker way of life is dying, and if you wait for it to come back you are wasting your time because when it does you will be paying 80% of your bonus in taxes and a loaf of bread will cost $15. It is obvious, even those of us that are still working have time on our hands because business is so dead. How else could we find the time to be on this blog. Enjoy it while you can. All I know is I should have been a fireman making 60K per year and retiring at 45 on a defined benefits pension.
perhaps that’s called poetic justice? for a bank who’s been around for only 8 years in the US (a second tier bank?) and never had a culture of its own (always poached from other banks and their own analysts always left for the greener pasture), this is what they get for disbanding the Lehman franchise. you think the brits know how to run a bank? their ’08 second half earnings were better than ’07. isn’t that enough to tell you how shitty a bank they were before???
perhaps that’s called poetic justice? for a bank who’s been around for only 8 years in the US (a second tier bank?) and never had a culture of its own (always poached from other banks and their own analysts always left for the greener pasture), this is what they get for disbanding the Lehman franchise. you think the brits know how to run a bank? their ’08 second half earnings were better than ’07. isn’t that enough to tell you how shitty a bank they were before???
Barcap IBD is generally considered the “C-team” because they barely had an IBD unit unless you count DCM.They barely had an coverage groups or even M&A until last year.
I agree with 86. They poached whole desks/groups especially in S&T (GS lev fin, Citi MBS, etc). Even with recruiting analysts, barcap tried to get the kids from top tier schools but those kids only wanted GS/MS/Leh. It got so bad at my alma mater that Barclays gave up altogether (pre-Lehman acquisition).
That being said, I’ve definitely noticed the differences in caliber of the legacy lehman associates/analysts and barclays associates/analysts from the buyside perspective.
In the end, the Barclays people got screwed with the bonuses. At least they still have their jobs. Although, from what I’ve been hearing, it’s a pretty miserable existence.
Gee 82, just check out the top 5 people on the Barclay’s web site. Not so impressive, but, to be honest, I do not value a Harvard/Columbia/Penn/Chicago MBA so highly except when I need someone on staff to write and think clearly and analyze strategy.
And, comments re Barclay were not directed so much to the bankers, but to those who keep the place running. Sure, there are some fine people at Barclays, but, if the split after the reorgs is 50% Barclays and 50% Lehman, then you got a problem.
Sure, there were areas where Barclays was impressive, but, the fact is that Lehman was one impressive organization as an organization – in my experience, one of the best operated firms around, in and out of finance. It was a place that valued intelligence and diversity – PhD in astrophysics from 3rd world countries were respected not viewed as geeks. Look at the diversity in Barclays top 5. Unfortunately, the board was asleep at the wheel and Fuld went to the wild side (I would like to know the identify of te Lehman folks who sat on the loan and real estate underwiriting committees — oops, think those committees disappeared in the late 80s.
It is sort of like taking a pool of mortgages where 90% are BBB and CCC, and think you can come up with a CDO where a tranche of 50% of the CDO is now AAA. MM – even a Harvard MBA should intuit that this cannot be.
Since the ex-Lehman people who left had no more Lehman stock, the many ones with new positions are quite ecstatic – though the are wondering if the 10%, 20% of 30% of last year bonus amount will show up from Barclays n the mail anytime soon.
@ 87: Barclays “gave up” recruiting at your school? I don’t buy that. I went to Wharton. And not only did Barclays recruit at Wharton, they recruited quite successfully. Lehman did as well, but this idea that kids at top schools only went to GS/MS, etc. is incorrect. Especially at the MBA level, when culture, pay, and other opportunities matter more than just “prestige”.
Every single person in my class at Wharton who went to Barclays turned down offers from other banks, including places like Goldman and Lehman. Quite simple, really. You want to do commodities, for example, you look at the big 3–Goldman, Stanley, and Barclays.
That’s just one example, but you get my point. Contrary to what college kids think, overall prestige means nothing. It’s the prestige of the group you are in. If your group, be it in IBD or S&T is the best on the street, then that’s all you care about. Doesn’t matter if it’s at BofA or Goldman. The best is the best, and everyone who works in a specific area of expertise knows who is the best in that area.
@87 i didnt know banks recruited from pepperoni u.
@90, this message board is for the big kids. Go back to your sandbox.
Please leave HR out of this. We are not your parents. If you want to be childish and refer to yourself as legacy lehman or legacy barcap because you think one is better than the other – that’s not our problem. All I know is, all of the “legacy lehman” employees couldn’t wait to join the barcap family in September.
this thread is gonna be a great little slice of history in ten years: the screams, wails, cries, and gnashing of teeth as the remaining rats argue about what’s left after the boat sank.
@66′s abuse of the word ‘tragedy’ is especially…mmmm…rich
@89, Barclays recruited at Dartmouth (87, was this dartmouth you’re talking about?)when I was a junior/senior and considered Dartmouth one of its targets (along with Princeton, Penn, UVA, Middlebury etc. I can give you the rationale behind those as well if you’d like). I think they arrived on campus in 2005/2006. They almost eliminated the whole program right before they bought lehman since the kids always turned down barcap to go elsewhere. I had friends who were directors at Barclays and were bummed since they couldn’t go back for recruiting. That, and people just didn’t know what Barclays really was. Remember, we are a liberal arts school, not a finance powerhouse like Wharton. for the most part, kids who went into banking really only knew the names/”prestige” associated with them. Obviously since the acquisition, they’re back in full force and Barclays is desirable again.
From my personal experiences, all the kids I knew who interned/worked full time at Barclays were the ones who didn’t get interviews/offers anywhere else.
@89 – Also, to your point. Everyone at Wharton generally goes into banking/s&t/consulting or anything else that’s pretty business-oriented, right? Of course Barclays would do well at Wharton especially when all of the kids want to end up somewhere for the summer.
I completely agree that you want to go to the bank who has the strongest group in the area you’d like to specialize in. However, most college grads and interns don’t have a clue what they even want on a general scale (product vs. industry). How do expect them to say, “I want [specific group] at xyz bank”?
@ 94, 95: Fair points. And I agree that for ugrads prestige matters the most because you need to open doors later on. I think grad/MBA level students are a couple of years ahead of the ugrads as far as which firms are desirable, and which areas are “hot”, etc.
That’s why I don’t think the quality of a firm can be judged by the opinions of ugrads. I also know that from my time on the street that no senior people I have every met gave a shit about “prestige”. It was all about opportunities and money. I see people get hired away from Goldman by other banks all the time.
I just get annoyed by people bashing other firms they know little about. I can’t tell you how many Lehman people I know who walked into Barclays and were taken aback by how strong their operations were. Barclays selectively entered certain markets, and became a top 10 global investment bank in 10 years. I consider that very impressive. Even without the Lehman acquisition they were already top 5 in a number of areas, and continued to improve month by month. Buying Lehman simply sped up the process by about 5 years.
@92 just like we can’t wait to get on the bathroom line after 7 innings, when you gotta go you really don’t have a choice…but thanks for the sign here and waive your rights letters or else…those were a nice touch.
@96 – re: your last para
You’re talking about Europe, right?
re 92
“All I know is, all of the “legacy lehman” employees couldn’t wait to join the barcap family in September.”
Yup, that is because they read the court approved contract where Barclays obligated itself to pay termination pay and bonus equivalent to the Lehman level pre-bankruptcy and read the soothing e-mails from Barcap execs. It is pretty clear.
So, the Lehman folks quite happily pitched in – and basically, worked for negative bonus for the last 3 months until the bait was switched, demonstrating the morality of Barcap.
So, now we are waiting for the creditors of Lehman to seek recoupment from Barclays for the 2.5 billion haircut they took.
Oh well. But, you are correct, the employees were delighted to have a job at that time, but less delighted when they realized they had been had. But, figuring that the law required a 90 full pay period plus vacation pay, many would have in retrospect liked to have been out from day one. They could have gone to Antigua and hung out with Stanford – and race week is coming up soon.
No doubt there are great top people at Barclays – but, remember the head of the fish.
@92, thanks for responding. If HR is not to blame, please tell us who is. London HR? Management? Like it or not, bonuses have significant implications for the bank’s culture–as Exhibit A, I present this list of 100+ posts. I am guessing from your “legacy lehman employees couldn’t wait to join the barcap family” comment that you are fairly senior and can do something about this mess. Please fix.
as an ex leh/barcap and current leh holdings employee: thanks to barcap for laying me off and giving me a nice sev package (which included a sweet little bonus) and thanks to lehman holdings for rehiring me at a higher salary with regular retention bonuses.
the last thing i got was screwed.
BTW: the leh people i know that got full time offers from barcap didn’t want to go work for barcap and most of them hate it now.
101 you are lucky that you are out. Most ex Lehman people here are so disgusted with how things turned out. The morale is absolutely terrible.
Mark my words, this franchise won’t even stand close to GS, MS, BAC, Citi, etc. a year from now. Most of the senior guys will end up leaving when the opportunity is right.
@102 what do you have to be disgusted about? The arrogance of ex-Lehman people is mind-boggling. Lehman went bankrupt, and so where exactly would you be without Barclays? Barclays gave you a job, so and if you hate it so much then just quit and go somewhere else or find another industry if no one will hire you.
Barclays has taken no government money, unlike all those other wonderful franchises you mention. It was actually profitable in 2008, and so mark my words it will emerge as one of the winners of this crisis.
@55 “Look at the educational background of the Barclays top 5″
I went to Princeton and even I’m not that arrogant. And im pretty damn arrogant
@103
Arrogance – most of the other banks should have gone under – they just are full of so much garbage that no one could figure out how much garbage is there .
Too bad no one knew how much CDS was bet against Lehman. That was not Lehman’s fault.
@55 I did not go to Princeton or even have an MBA – but, I was just struck by the relative lack of credentials. What is arrogant about pointing out the facts.
That is not to say credentials are everything and they are not – but, if you go back to when 55-60 year old guys (and they are all guys) were going to school, schools that are competitive and truly excellent today really were third level. So, I just wonder. Actually, what would impress me more than a bunch of mba would be a mix of people with degrees in math, economics, physics, …
I just figure that really smart managers would remember not to screw people on the way out – they tend to remember – and so do people left behind.
@103
Arrogance – most of the other banks should have gone under – they just are full of so much garbage that no one could figure out how much garbage is there .
Too bad no one knew how much CDS was bet against Lehman. That was not Lehman’s fault.
@55 I did not go to Princeton or even have an MBA – but, I was just struck by the relative lack of credentials. What is arrogant about pointing out the facts.
That is not to say credentials are everything and they are not – but, if you go back to when 55-60 year old guys (and they are all guys) were going to school, schools that are competitive and truly excellent today really were third level. So, I just wonder. Actually, what would impress me more than a bunch of mba would be a mix of people with degrees in math, economics, physics, …
I just figure that really smart managers would remember not to screw people on the way out – they tend to remember – and so do people left behind.
@89 You went to Wharton? As an undergrad, I presume.
I went to Wharton (for real, the MBA program) and Barclays kept recruiting there. No one knew anything about them and as far as I knew no one admitted to accepting an offer from them. So I sincerely doubt that Wharton people were “turning down offers” from real bulge brackets to work for a bank that was basically considered a joke.
I don’t have a lot of respect for Lehman, since in my book they’re always second tier, but I will point out that I would consider the people who went there capable of walking upright (in a MBA finance sense). You go anywhere lower than that and you end up with the kind of “talent” that would go to a ….Barclays
@ 107: I’m calling bullshit on your post. I was actually a Wharton MBA. From my class alone 4 people went to Barclays for S&T. The year after I graduated 5 Wharton MBAs went to Wharton for S&T.
For those not familiar with Wharton MBA recruiting, S&T attracts a pretty small crowd at Wharton. The year that 4 went to Barclays, Lehman was the top draw with 7 people accepting. All other banks were between 2 and 5 (in contrast, Goldman as a whole took something like 60 people from that Wharton MBA class, while only 2 or 3 were in S&T).
You have no idea what you’re talking about at all. And as proud as I am of my Wharton MBA, I’d be careful criticizing the Wharton undergrads. On average, they are smarter than the MBAs, and the Wharton ugrad alumni base is more accomplished than the MBA alumni base.
I know every single one of those people, and every single one had multiple offers.
Typo: The year after I graduated 5 Wharton MBAs went to Barclays for S&T….
These people commenting on prestige and C class performance of Barclays need to look at the facts. Barclays has a functional business model that stood up in good times and bad (ie. incorporating its risk management effectively.)
I’m dumbstruck over the fact that Lehman employees put themselves so high on a pedestal when the bank that they worked with f-a-i-l-e-d. If you want to talk about being world class, then maybe these world class employees should have spoken up when they saw that some things in Lehman was suspicious.
I was at MS in Commodities, and there was only a big 2: MS and GS. Barclays was not on the radar screen, nor JPM, Lehman, etc. Each of those 3 had something interesting but it wasn’t in the game as a top player.
It’s not clear that Barclays was better than Lehman in Commodities. Lehman was following a very attractive strategy, because they were putting the money behind the operation needed to build a physical business, not just derivatives.
@107-
The fact that you’re too busy thinking about Wharton* tells me you’re afraid to think about what you’ve actually produced lately. Given that we’re in a recession where results and cost-effectiveness are paramount, I guess that would put you in the third tier.
*:Not dumping on Wharton- just dumping on pompous losers
@103, 110- More than “pedigree”, people respect competence and hard work- even Lehman folks! And I think those two virtues count even more in a recession. I came into Lehman as one of the rare hires from a public school, and I feel like I can empathize a little.
The key is to demonstrate that you’re more competent and hard-working than everyone else. Recessions encourage meritocracy, and if you quietly focus on excellence at your job, you’ll force everyone else to eat their words.
“The key is to demonstrate that you’re more competent and hard-working than everyone else. Recessions encourage meritocracy, and if you quietly focus on excellence at your job, you’ll force everyone else to eat their words.”
Which is why BarCap is drinking all your Bulge Bracket milkshakes. At least in DCM.
112 Most people are competetent and hard working, so lets focus a little on this idea of “pedigree”. It doesn’t mean you’re the son of royals. Instead, it means you have what people, especially clients, like to be surrounded with. Meaning looks, grooming, charm, speaking voice. Someone in command, with presence. That sounds like they know what they’re doing. Much as it sounds superficial, such things are very important. Cause lets face it, the deals are all the same. The first is the only one that’s intellectually challenging. After that, its all salesmanship.
@113- 112 here. I completely agree. I’ll also say that if Scottrade’s employees are better at their jobs than those at Goldman Sachs, it’s better, long-term, to swallow your pride and work for Scottrade.
It’s not about your name; it’s about the quality and cost of your work- especially in a recession.
@114-
The fact is that most people in this industry are painfully incompetent but think they’re competent. That’s how we got into this mess. If you think that surviving during a recession is about grooming, charm, and looks, you might be in a lot more trouble than you think; a model or actor is probably going to be much cheaper than you.
112/115, 113 here. I love you dearly. I could give less of a monkey’s where some Brooks Bros suited pitch bitch went to school. The arrogance on these boards is outstanding, especially when it’s from banks that Failed (capitalization intended).
Recession is right, recession works. Recession clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
@116 I dont think Teldar did so well and in retrospect either did the USA.
@ 111: Your points are definitely valid, but I have to ask, when were you at MS? I’m asking because you are definitely right that it was “the big 2″ from the 80s up through probably 2003 or 2004. Barclays was a clear #3, but there was still a large gap between them and GS/MS.
Around 2004 or so, that changed, however. And I agree that Lehman did a good job looking at both physical and financial, and that Barclays avoided physical for longer than they should have.
That said, revenue numbers support my claim that Barclays was far above Lehman, and everyone else that was below them. In addition, they had pretty much closed the gap between them and “the big 2″.
Lehman, Citi, Credit Suisse, etc. all appear to have had commodities revenues in 2008 of below $500mm. Goldman was at the high end with about $3B, right? Well, both MS and Barcap were around $2.5B. No one was close to Barcap’s tail. Even JPM and ML never came close to hitting $2.0B, from the info I’ve seen.
# 88 – There were fully functioning loan and real estate commitment committees at Lehman headed by one head of Legal, Mr. S. Berkenfeld…and he’s now at Barcap. And the PhD in Astrophysics…headed FI Derivs I believe…well, he actually was viewed as a geek. Cheers!