Re: John Mack’s offer last week to Morgan Stanley IBD analysts: apparently the buyout options were put on the table for second and thirds only, the deal being $27,000 and $32,000, respectively, to walk away from the Lebanese Lothario. Supposedly, they’ve got ten days to make a decision, ahead of the bank’s additional round of cuts. Knowing how indecisive the MS’ers can be, and that the number of other firms offering free desserts is few and far between, this is going to be a tough one. So let’s lend a hand:
We can be Lycans!
I am a hedge fund manager.. How can i get 27/32 from my clients?
What do you think the UBS weightlifter applicant is doing right now?
Also, what are 3rd year assoc numbers?
3,
Not sure if you’re talking about AV, but I was in the Adidas store yesterday, and there’s a huge design on the wall in the vestibule reading, “IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING.” I think Aleks should chase that money, and collect some coin.
If they don’t accept the offer, are they still up for potential firing next week?
If they have buy-side offers… just take the cash and run.
@3 – Alexi Vayner? Such a stud. Guy probably is the one who caused all this recession mess b/c he got blackballed by the street… He’s so dedicated.
Alexi, we yield to your mighty wrath! Stop the insanity!
@5- yes.
@lowly– they had that slogan before his stunt.
@8. @5 here. Then this is a no-brainer.
If 40%+ of the class is going to go, and you can get bought out at $27K or $32k, or conversely at 3 months salary ($150K/year = $37,500) – shouldn’t you stay and take the chance that you’d be one of the lucky ones (since many will take themselves out of the pool with the buyout), and still come out ahead if fired? What am I missing?
150k is not salary (probably 80-90 or so). if you have a buyside offer or a bschool acceptance, then this is a great opportunity–take the money and go relax for the next 3-5 months.
on the other hand, if you have nothing lined up, it’s pretty risky to take the money.
@2
Hilarious!
8,
I thought they were robbing the poor, misunderstood bastard. I didn’t know they were kicking that slogan around pre-Aleks.
-Nike guy
@10: B-school acceptances not out yet. Can’t imagine more than 5% of the classes have jobs lined up.
@ 10… 2nd/3rd year analysts aren’t making more than 80 base.
Let’s do the math.
2nd year salary: 70K/75K
Buyout contract: 27K
Equivalent to 4.6/4.3 month pay
3rd year salary: 80K/90K
Buyout contract: 32K
Equivalent to 4.8/4.3 month pay
If you get laid off, you will most likely get 3-month severance.
If you will be slightly better off if you take the buyout contract… Man… If you don’t have another job already lined up, it is going to be a tough call…
@13 Acceptances are out for the first rounders. In a better year, I’d say many of them have jobs lined up. Not now though. The big determinant is what is severance going to be? I wouldn’t assume I’d make it through the cuts. I’d weigh buyout vs severance…
I’d lean towards severance, particularly because you probably qualify for unemployment which you won’t if you leave voluntarily
no way analysts are making 80-90k base. Thought it was more like 60-70?
@15. So it’s 3 months vs. 4.5 months on money alone; but if you are fired you can collect unemployment, which probably makes up the difference.
I’d roll the dice and stick it out, because having a job for the next, say, 6 months is better than being out. And if you do end up being canned, you are basically no worse off than getting the payout package.
Were the package $10K more, it would be worth it to take it. But as it stands, employees are indifferent to lump sum/severance + unemployment.
Also – can you COBRA once you take the package?
If you got top bucket bonus last year it’s a tough call, if not get the F out.
For MS people on here, is the step-up in buyouts a constant ratio? i.e.does 2nd year buyout/average 2nd salary=3rd year buyout/average 3rd year salary?
Look realistically at where you are in the pecking order. You know in your heart if, fairly or not, you’re one of the favored ones.
16 Are you talking acceptances to B school or job offers to graduating B school students? Don’t understand what the later has to do with the situation here?
18 Take a buyout and no unemployment? U sure? Its not like you retired.
@22 If you applied to business school in the first round (ie October) you received your decision in December or January. If you applied second round (January), you are right, you don’t know if you are in yet. So some people going to business school next year already know their results.
What are you guys talking about? These men and women worked long hours and attended prestigious universities. They are talent, and this is a people business, so, of course they should walk. They and their bosses can go anywhere, even overseas. This is why we must pay them bonuses and not cap their salaries. Why is Morgan Stanley being so foolish and letting all this talent go?
@21,
That’s a common behavioral finance problem. you always think you’re higher on the pecking order than you actually are.
Furthermore, I think you’re being very aggressive if you modeled this assuming 3 months of severence as your downside. I’d call estimate 1 month of severence, plus COBRA as someone already pointed out. In the end, you can read the news to approximate the number of layoffs or do some digging internally. At that point you just have to estimate months unemployed–my guess is about 9 in this market… Any thoughts?
who said that severance is a guaranteed 3 months? take the buyout
MUTINY!
It’s a tough call, but I’d probably stick it out if I felt like I was on safe ground w/ the firm/bosses.
Most times, there’s insurance and such for at least those 3 months … plus the unemployment = probably a better deal.
Still, it’s a tough and uncomfortable decision to have to make.
@22 And I should have been clearer with my second sentence. There should be a break or something there. I meant that in the past few years, analysts would have job offers by now for jobs starting after they receive their bonuses but this year I doubt many do.
So two statements, 1) some people know they’re into bschool so they have outs, but some don’t and 2) most probably don’t have jobs lined up so thats not an out
24 That’s what I though you meant. But you also said “have jobs lined up”. What’s with that?
Anyone know how long unemployment lasts and how much you get?
On second thought, I think it only makes sense to take this if you have a job/school lined up and are leaving anyway…
From MS’s persepctive, what do they save by buying you out? They could just fire you not have to deal with the problem. The only way that this makes sense is if the buyouts are a discount to severence meant to tempt people with other options to go for less money.
Too 27, didn’t 32.
Current unemployment is 26 weeks + 33 weeks of federal funded emgergency insurance @ $405/wk for a total of $23,895
Why take the package? UI is equal to the package + you get whatever they offer you later
“What do you tell a woman with 2 black eyes? Nothing she hasn’t already heard twice.”
-Chris Brown
“What is the first thing a woman does when she gets home from the battered-women’s shelter?
“The dishes, if she knows what is good for her”
@35: Exactly. This package is probably just to smoke out the people who have other alternatives (B-School or Buy-Side jobs). 100% of those people will hit the bid.
Of those that remain, MS will sort through them, keep a few top performers and discard the rest.
@39: False. Word is that most buyside employers are telling the monkeys not to take it. Apparently they forget how to cut and paste business descriptions from CapIQ if they’re off the job for 4 months.
Re the pecking order, this is pretty much saying that IB has culled all the weak links already, and everyone left should be in the top bucket. That’s why they offer this package and it doesn’t (monetarily) matter who takes it. Please note that S&T and PB did not get this kind of offer at the junior ranks so start the wheel on what that means
If you aren’t willing to counter negotiate for a higher severance, you are in the wrong business. Have some balls!
@41- and with all the leverage one brings to that argument, surely the offer will be doubled or tripled on the spot. Why didn’t I think of that?
41 should be polishing up his/her resume about now.
Counter negotiation only works when you are in a position of power.
Seriously…where are ya gonna go?? They know that…..
TWIT
@43 – He’s clearly over-busy polishing something else…..
MS does not negotiate severance. It is a take it or leave it. Various people in the last round (myself included) tried that and we were shot down right away.
Gasparino is working up a ridiculous lather at Equinox.
@41: Why would they ever raise their severance package…ever? Assuming you’re the best analyst they’ve ever seen, why would they pay you MORE and then have you LEAVE? If you were really, really good (n.b., there is no such thing at the analyst level), wouldn’t MS offer you less, in the hopes that you’ll be less likely to take the package and therefore stick around?
45 – Everything on Wall St is negotiable. Just because you evidently suck at it, doesn’t mean others won’t succeed where you crashed and burned.
BTW, nice job getting outfought by the HR wideclops. Maybe Smeal will take you back.
When I was a first year, my salary was $47k, am I really that old???
I’m not too familiar with severances etc., but if you take the offer, do you still qualify for unemployment checks in NY?
49, if it makes you feel better, my college buddies were making 40k in their first year for base.
All Analysts who are confused whether to take this or not
Please call ADAM WILLIAMS (in LN office). He is a great mentor on how to screw your careers.
Even better..log a falcon ticket using Falcon Gateway. TRY THIS. Type FALCONGATEWAY in your browser and see the magic (Works only inside MS)
@50 – Yes
Just FALCONGATEWAY its simple…
OUTSOURCED TO TCS…with 10 people sitting in TORONTO and minting money.
when analysts are asked to leave. The MS Management really suck. Why would you have help desk guys sit in TORONTO for $400 a day ? When they can sit in INDIA for $40 a day ?
The helpdesk guys are in Ohio. At least they were up til a year ago before I left MS and went to buyside.
@53 – Are you commenting from direct knowledge/experience, because I would assume you need proof that you were laid off instead of leaving on your own will and if you took the offer, you were technically choosing to leave.
@55 Helpdesk in OHIO ? Fuck you.
Check the MS ID : DOPPAV in corporate directory and see his location..
They are all sitting in Toronto and eroding our TIER I ratios.
Nobody, repeat NOBODY is fired. I Think TCS fooled us into a no-fire contract for 10 years !!
Another round of layoffs….This is terrible…when CFO’s are getting 22Mil on total compensation, and the company is getting TARP money…how do they sleep at night, knowing people will be without jobs?!?!
This is complete BS!!!
I really hope those of you that are reading these posts and actually have to make this decision don’t listen to the majority of these fvcktards advising you to stay.
Just think about how things have changed over the last year and a half: currency, equity, and commodities markets exhibiting dementia rather than strong +/- correlations; we have been desensitized to the point that announcement of a dividend cut nor amounts in the $100B’s carry the same magnitude they once did; doing a deal that carries an interest rate of a credit card for a customer that is investment grade… this is what should clue you in on why the
Does anyone know if this offer was made in NYC only or if was made in all MS offices around the world? My best friend is a 2nd year analyst in London so I hope he is not concerned.
@56 You’re eligible for unemployment even if you take a “voluntary” package as long as the firm is eliminating the position and does not plan to rehire for it.
So, yes, you would qualify for unemployment if you took the package. You also qualify for COBRA with the package.
Does MS still have a Prime Brokerage department?
kids graduating college in 2009 that are going to IBD (the few, the… proud?) at MS are making 70K base this year. funny.