So, according to reports, the events of the last several days have left AIG scared shitless. The fear emanating from the insurer, and specifically Team Financial Products, is two-fold. The first thing causing them to quake in their boots is you, the American taxpayer. You really get scary when it comes to your money.
A tidal wave of public outrage over bonus payments swamped American International Group yesterday. Hired guards stood watch outside the suburban Connecticut offices of AIG Financial Products, the division whose exotic derivatives brought the insurance giant to the brink of collapse last year. Inside, death threats and angry letters flooded e-mail inboxes. Irate callers lit up the phone lines. Senior managers submitted their resignations. Some employees didn't show up at all."It's a mob effect," one senior executive said. "It's putting people's lives in danger."
The second thing causing them to almost comically soil themselves, is the monster they've created with their own two hands which, shockingly, the company is yet to officially speak as candidly about as this guy:
"It's going to blow up," said a senior Financial Products manager, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak for the company. "I have a horrible, horrible, horrible feeling that this is going to end badly."
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:04PM
Light the torches and dust off the pitchforks!
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:06PM
Just brilliant. Let's make sure anyone with any talent whatsoever leaves AIG. That way, it becomes that much easier for all of AIG's counterparties (Goldman et al) to gorge themselves on American tax dollars through the repeated raping of the idiots that are left. Careful what you wish for.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Mar 17, 2009 12:08PM
this seems more fitting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WAUjmhxUHI&feature=related
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:09PM
@cluzo- not for the second quote.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:09PM
Sounds more and more like the taliban form of justice is moving across the pond. What's next - public floggings and beheadings in the town square?
Oh yeah, we don't have town squares any more. And strip malls don't quite have the same ambiance.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Mar 17, 2009 12:11PM
@4 - damn internet...good thing I didn't write "first"
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:19PM
I was at a 7-Eleven store just moments ago and the clerk on duty was listening to some country song about Detroit going down and she was saying, "That song is for AIG...."
Goodness me, when the 7-Eleven clerks are pissed off at AIG you know the anger is running high...
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:20PM
In these trying times, AIG employees should cling to guns and religion.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:22PM
Let's put some people in jail. Can anyone do that? MadeOff had to do it himself. Bunch of all round incompetents at the top of everything in this country.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:25PM
time to release the Lycans
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:31PM
Obama should respond more to the interests of taxpayers and less to the interests of incompetent bankers; Goldman, Citi, Deutschebank and others all opted to neglect hedging their trades with credit default swaps; and so all, having neglected to hedge in order to earn more profits, are getting free call options from the Treasury. As Rogers and others have demonstrated repeatedly, many solvent banks still are. Bust AIG and let the speculators at the incompetent banks pay for their own losses.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:33PM
I am going to party tonight like a UBS exotic derivatives salesman in 2005
at Beamers
Posted by PatrickBateman , Mar 17, 2009 12:34PM
Ha, the gov't actually thought dabbling in the private sector was going to be a clean cut process. Does this really come as a surprise to any of you? While I abhor AIG's behavior, you gotta admire the fact that they're sticking their finger in the face of socialist America. God bless 'em.
Bawney Fwank is outwaged!
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:34PM
I hope they do take a couple of the idiots out and flog them senseless. Scumbags are raping the taxpayer and sitting around wondering why they are getting pissed. I say we bend them over and gang rape THEM and see how they like it!
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:39PM
I wish I could short AIG merchandise and swag.
~The Supertrader
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:47PM
you pinkos are using the term "taxpayer" very liberally. these "taxpayers" you are referring to are actually the ones NOT paying taxes at all. those of us who truly are taxpayers are in the extreme minority.
i'm outraged by the outrage. our politicians are only incentivized to get reelected, as long as the economy is tanking - they can continue to incite class warfare and wealth re-distribution through these socialistic measures which appeal only to those who dont pay taxes...unfortunately those individuals are in the extreme majority.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:47PM
Allegedly Grassley was seen driving a rented Uhaul screaming Allah Akbar on 95 north from D.C.
Posted by Anal_yst , Mar 17, 2009 12:48PM
I do not like the direction this is going, might just hafta find some way to stay down here in Aruba for a few more weeks/months/years and wait out the carnage...
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:50PM
think tou have problems. look at the lawyers.
http://endofesq.com/?p=1088
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:52PM
@17 -- hahaha, well played.
Posted by KevinB , Mar 17, 2009 12:53PM
@13 - Bawney is going to give a press conference shortly (sorry, it's a "press availability session"). Wanna bet that 75 points evaporates pretty quickly?
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:58PM
@guest 17
What do you call the huge chunk that comes out of my paycheck every other week? Is that not paying taxes?
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 12:59PM
"Senior managers submitted their resignations. Some employees didn't show up at all."
I call "BS" on the former, on the latter, well, its getting close to the NCAA tournament so that makes sense.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:04PM
@22 - contratulations...what exactly is your point.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:07PM
Come on guys they have to RETAIN all that talent. How will they keep these amazing capt's of industry if they dont give them bonuses?
I do have one question- Arent bonuses paid on the PROFIT of a company? How do these TALENTS have any legal right to a bonus as AIG claims?
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:10PM
@16 Way to go champ. Anyone who disagrees with you is a non-taxpaying pinko. Talk about stereotyping. If you think this is just about class warfare and us "peasants" being "jealous" of your wealth, you are sadly mistaken and clueless. This has gone way beyond all that and the outrage is palpable. This is going to end very badly indeed.
-p.w.pf
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:12PM
Barney "the Banking Queen" Frank will eniolate today's gains sure as shite.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:15PM
I am the government. When I show up, I like to Fu*k Sh*t Up!
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:15PM
@2
Yeah, it will be crucial that the "talent" that is the upper tier of AIGFP stays on. They did such a great job running the entire company into the ground. Very perceptive of them to sell an unlimited number of CDSs without realizing there might be a severe downside.
Posted by Investorcluzo , Mar 17, 2009 1:16PM
I love it, 11 people paid retention bonuses of $2 million or more have left the firm. given that they were "retention" based, I'd presume they paid the money back. so much for the argument that there is "no where else for them to go"...
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:27PM
Inventing the Snuggie is the new killin' it!
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:27PM
I think the fact that they were positioned as retention bonuses is a big part of the outrage. If the financial products division was literally staffed by Bonobos, AIG (and the U.S. taxpayer) would have come out billions of dollars ahead.
Now to go and reward these employees and to then state that is has to be done to 'retain talent' is a farcical.
Time to realize that if in the totality of your employ (as a 'revenue center') if you've net lost money for your company, the company would have been better of giving position to a sack of bricks. Funny how everyone is worried about their bonus money etc. I'd be more concerned about realizing that my life work was utterly worthless and infact a negative.
Time for a Guiness...
-C
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:30PM
@16. definitely agree with you on your take on "tax payer" most people don't realize that banks pay taxes too. and big banks/corporations pay hella more money then average americans.
100 million in bonuses = approx 50 million tax generated... unless they engage in tax evasion
average american with 60k as salary = approx less than 19k in taxes.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:31PM
All the s--t-eaters failing to feel the righteous outrage are obviously non-tax-paying corporate welfare queens. You dare call the rest of us Pinkos?!
Your days of feeding at the public trough that Bush/Obama provides for you for you are coming to a close.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:31PM
There is no talent involved in selling CDS. Write rediculous contract on something buyer doesn't own, pledging amount of money seller cannot possibly pay, ignore fine print because contract will never matter.
-
So sorry the poor babies at AIGFP don't like the mean words.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:34PM
So Yahoo Finance is 1) here and 2) apparently drunk. Happy St. Patty's Day, everyone.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:34PM
11,
"Goldman, Citi, Deutschebank and others all opted to neglect hedging their trades with credit default swaps"
I laughed. Please leave the conversation to people who at least know what they're talking about.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:44PM
@33 "100 million in bonuses = approx 50 million tax generated... unless they engage in tax evasion"
Look who's running the Treasury now. Taxes are for suckas!
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 1:49PM
@11
WTF are you talking about, "Goldman, Citi, Deutschebank and others all opted to neglect hedging their trades with credit default swaps".
I'm with #37..
1) Minus JPM, and you just named the most profitable CDS desks on the street.
2) Clearly, if you're profitable in CDS, why would you not hedge your own positions, or, at least, why would your desks not come to you for a price first?
3) Perhaps, you are the person in 7-11, who sees bonuses as a waste of taxpayer money. In some cases, yes. But, how do you continue to tell AIG I'B'ers to work their @ss off to originate deals, or stay ahead of mkts, if you aren't going to pay them in-line with their extra efforts?
extra effort=extra pay?
u r an idiot.
Posted by clientnine , Mar 17, 2009 1:58PM
OK, some of the bailout money went to bonuses.
But the taxpayers are still going to make a profit on the bailout overall.
Right?
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 2:03PM
@35:
Clearly, you are a staten-island raised equity trader that knows very little about markets, overall.
Stealing money from the elderly and being up 2% ytd, does not constitute killing it.
Clearly, you're better over the phone, selling life insurance to smokers, as you've illustrated your grammar to be nothing less than extremely "rediculous".
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 2:12PM
@41 Actually being up 2% ytd may be the new killing it.
-Not 35
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 2:12PM
Oh please, AIG deserves this. Sugardaddy just wanted them to dress up and look pretty, not parade around town in their sweats. Had they been smart, they would've renegotiated the contracts back in December, but they are not, which begs the question of why they need to retain their talent. That ain't talent.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 2:26PM
@43--
got it. hedge funds, by most accounts, were up 1% in jan, maybe another 1% in feb.
Not saying that 2%, in those mths was not good, but, we still see funds up >20%, ytd 08 and the same in 09'.
Smart traders make $$ in any mkt.
Equity traders pumping shi* stocks, with no valuation to back, have nothing to lose, other than mr and mrs jones' retirement fund. 2% on way in, 2% on way out, regardless of p&l. I'm pretty confident that 35 and 11 are not taking any position. They are, at most, unloading mandated stock loads....
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 2:28PM
Honestly, I don't get the outrage over the financial crisis. It's not like banks forced people to take out ARMs and invest their 401ks in the market.
For all the outraged taxpayers. Why don't you ask why your Congressmen/women get lifetime pensions, health care benefits etc... All the while they're fucking over your medicare and social security.
Lastly, if AIG can reneg on its bonus contracts with the FPG, then GM and F should be allowed to kick the UAW in the ass. Why is my taxpayer money paying assholes who make shitty cars, and then use my money to buy movie tickets, fried chicken, etc...
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 2:29PM
@41...selling life insurance to smokers is definitely he new killin' it. My premium is awful.
Use a few more commas, douche.
-Also Not 35
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 2:50PM
@46-
ure retarded.
what's the life ins premium on a 30 yr smoker and 25 yr fried chicken eater these days anyway?
I'm with 45..
1) None of this shld be headline news. We knew about it a year ago.
2) Toxic assets were put on the books bc govt opened the door with, "all minorities should be able to own a house".
3) Just like shi* credit, car-loans at 20% interest, if a bank were to go with this govt pushed project, why the fuk wouldn't they have expected a significant premium?
4) Do you really think govt would do all this bailing out, if they didn't feel a little bit responsible for the creation of the issue?
5) This is not relevant to all I-banking or global markets. Some guys absolutely murdered it last year. Unfortunately, they were thrown into the mix of the overriding downturn of profitability. But, you have to keep those guys around.
This is pretty much a waste of time now. It's like explaining quantum theory to a drunk guy with down syndrome.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 3:03PM
47...have you been drinking?
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 3:14PM
@39
Extra Results = Extra Pay
Extra Effort = A gold star on your report card...
Get a clue door knob and join the real world
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 3:19PM
@30 The retention was for 2008 Genius!
They took the cash an ran. Better stash it somewhere safe.....and that isn't Switzerland anymore!
Posted by Investorcluzo , Mar 17, 2009 3:34PM
@50 - have you never been guaranteed a bonus (retention or otherwise). most have clauses that require you pay back some/most/all of the funds if you leave within a cetain time frame. lemme guess, back office?
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 3:34PM
@45
11 here. Read Aquinas or Cicero: rage is generated by pride just as nemesis is generated by hubris. Incompetent bankers' pride or hubris generates citizens' rage. @39, banks' desks make markets not hedge banks' net counterparty risk. To all, cease abusing citizens' funds by bailing out these incompetent losers, and just take the mortally wounded off life-support. To those who argue for "retaining talent", Goldman retains it's prop traders only by assuming call options from the taxpayer gratis. Does anyone here want to pay for Goldman's spec losses?
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 4:00PM
Easy answer default on the loans and let AIG go bankrupt. Gov't steps in to guarantee the shit they already have guaranteed and all the shit eating fraud monkeys at AIG can go rot in hell.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 4:08PM
@52
govt did not create prop trading. No. Shld not be bailed out.
53 is right on.
@48
yes. was drinking. fell asleep, woke up and expected the "also not 35" to come back with something witty.
As I sober up/gain clarity, it's crazy that people don't understand performance-based comp, nor it's benefits towards america's competitiveness vs the rest of the world.
Posted by guest , Mar 17, 2009 6:34PM
@51 - lemme guess, college sophomore hoping to grab a sweet internship next year so you can act like a baller? doubt any trader who is killin it is going to be posting on DB at 3:34pm. douche.
Posted by polizeros , Mar 17, 2009 7:04PM
"Babylon burning
And they got no water
Fire, fire
And they got no water"
-- old Reggae song
Posted by tbone , Mar 18, 2009 1:04AM
@ 16 & 33
Fuck the "super majority"! Who are those assholes kidding? They call themselves "taxpayers"? Are they filing quarterly estimates? Doubt it.
If your annual tax bill is < 100k, you should be grateful for being issued a driver's license. Don't even think about voting. Those people are scum.