So! A dear friend of Dealbreaker is one of the few b-school applicants to be granted admittance to Club 2 Year Vacay this year. Tuck and Stern have already been crossed off the list (too Hanover, too Nouriel), with Columbia and University of Chicago remaining. Here we have a dilemma, which you can probably guess. The lady in question can’t decide. Difficult as it may be for Dealbreaker readers to form opinions, we figured we’d throw this one at you. Considering all factors (quality of student bodies, social life, chances of getting a job in New York post-grad, etc) please make a decision for her now. Begin. (Oh, and answers like “Columbia” or “Chicago” aren’t helpful. You must elaborate.)
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Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:51PM
2 year vaca is right. i went to Columbia. not a fan of it. but it was nice to stay in NYC
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:52PM
Columbia...they have an AWESOME football squad
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:52PM
Pole Dancer U.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:53PM
That would depend. How large are her breasts?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:54PM
columbia. chances of getting job in nyc dwarf coming from chicago.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:55PM
Chi. The rare MBA I hire, I would rather be mildly math and econ literate.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:55PM
Laid off in December 2008 - just decided to pursue MBA now... slim options as most schools deadlines are too close to make... so I am left with these: Rutgers, Fordham, Drexel Lebow School, Temple Fox School... any feedback on these?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:56PM
I'd go with Columbia, because the whole "Booth" thing is tacky.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:57PM
Univ of Chicago is where fun goes to die.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:57PM
brown or white?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:57PM
@7 Don't bother with the third rounds, wait until next year
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:57PM
columbia
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:58PM
base on the school options i'm guessing she's ugly
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:58PM
@9- agreed. nyc all the way.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:59PM
@7-Fordham-up and coming program. It's no NYU or Columbia for obvious reasons but you will still stay within the NYC network
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 3:59PM
@7-Fordham-up and coming program. It's no NYU or Columbia for obvious reasons but you will still stay within the NYC network
Posted by Anal_yst , Mar 31, 2009 4:00PM
Depends what said lady wants to focus on, and if she buys into the Chicago school mentality. Also, she should likely consider proximity of friends/family, financial aid (if any), but if it were me, I think I'd likely go with Columbia.
@ 7
Are you 100% determined to get in now? What about waiting for next semester/year? If you're hellbent on those schools why not do Rutgers of Fordham and bust your ass to make sure you're at the absolute top of your class? Proximity to NYC, and they're both decent schools, as long as you're a winner you should be fine, I'd think.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:00PM
The New York orientation makes Columbia a no-brainer, but Booth is the better school.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:00PM
@13- or better looking AND smarter than you.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:01PM
if she wants to work in nyc after grad, columbia w/o a doubt.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:02PM
19 is the friend.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:02PM
From @7
I'm a dude so I can pole dance - job market for trading is tight and don't want to wait another year to get started....
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:03PM
@ 6. Let me guess. You are under 5'10", have a bitter disposition, and have trouble with meaningful relationships?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:04PM
Univ of Chicago
NYC = So last season
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:06PM
Chicago. You can get an industry job out of there. In NYC you'll join the throngs of former financiers living in denial that their industry is half the size it used to be and that there aren't new jobs being created.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:08PM
Chicacgo
Higher ranked, better rep, smarter kids
Some CT hedge funds fly right over CBS en route to recruiting at Chicago
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:08PM
@18 summed it up best.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:09PM
Go to University of Florida and get drunk. It will prepare you for the unemployment that awaits you.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:10PM
-@23. Actually, no. 5'11", reasonably relaxed and pretty good relationships with fam and frnds. I do run a decent sized sales desk, and get paid for what we end up producing - so have found it helps to hire kids who need not be trained on basic math and econ.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:10PM
@25- but she wants a job in NY.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:13PM
I think she should go to Columbia because it would be a shame to lose someone as awesome and fun as her from our city.
-ComfortablySmug
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:13PM
Slow news day BL? Next post: Whopper or Big Mac? Discuss.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:14PM
Simple. Depends on what she wants.
If she wants to end up as a trader / quant / investment mangement etc. Go to Chicago.
If she wants to go into investment banking / sales etc. Go to Columbia.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:14PM
Based on quality of student bodies, social life, chances of getting a job in New York post-grad there is no contest.
Hyde Park = no social life
UofC = No physical talent
Chicago = harder to move to NYC in 2 years when everyone hiding out in Bschool comes back to the real world.
that said
GSB MBA 2010
(still having a hard time accepting the Booth thing)
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:14PM
@30 - Chicago is probably the best finance school there is and if anything has better recruiting to the NYC financial firms just because of its overall better ranking. You would stand a much better shot of getting a job in NYC from Wharton than NYU, even though NYU is in NYC. Same logic applies here though a less glaring contrast.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:14PM
Chicago is the better school.whether she decides with Columbia or Chicago, she should go spend a semester at IESE in BArcelona, great city, the chance to learn a bit of Spanish, and really good school...
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:15PM
@21 - correction: 19 is the DUFF
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:16PM
CBS = Fridays off for interning in the city = a major draw
Don't know what goes in (the) Booth
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:16PM
@ 29 I need a job on a sales desk. I certainly am no quant, but I have what it takes for sure. Interview me?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:18PM
Said lady should forget B-school and apply to law school.
At the same time, she should call-up Navy NROTC and find out about the JAG scholarship program.
Full scholarship, room & board, plus pay and a commission upon graduation. Obligation to serve as a Navy or Marine Corps JAG officer for several years.
If she can pass the physical and get admitted to law school, she might be able to get a JAG appointment.
BTW, for those of you who are unfamiliar with the term, JAG stands for Judge Advocate General, or the military's lawyers.
Her skill at pole-dancing probably wouldn't be a factor in her selection.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:18PM
A class one truck license.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:19PM
Chicago probably gets you more street cred with our overseers in the executive branch for the next 4-8 years.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:19PM
@35 did you even go to business school? OK going forward, no one is allowed to comment on this unless they actually went to bschool. And none of that Fordham crap. I mean a legitimate school.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:20PM
From my limited experience dealing with Columbia U over the years - I would avoid it at all costs. Besides, it is always advisable to go to the best school you can get into (with the focus of study you prefer), make the connections, do good work and get on with your life.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:21PM
-@39, as soon as my firm gets out of lay-off city.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:22PM
Columbia
or Chicago.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:22PM
Chicago is better for careers / alumni in options / derivatives
Columbia has more brand / wider reach for FT recruiting.
Start with what she thinks she wants to do. If she has no clue and just needs to hide, I would go with Columbia
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:23PM
@ 44 Elaborate why on the avoidance of Columbia?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:24PM
Your average student would be most likely to...
get murdered on campus: Boof
have consensual sex while in school: Columbia, in a "tallest midget" contest
have a severe, life-crippling inferiority complex: Boof
forget how to interact with other human beings: Boof
pretend that living a mile from Obama's house is cool: Boof
go on to blow up a major financial institution: Boof
Get fellatio from the dean and one's name on the building in exchange for a lot of money: Columbia (default)
get taught useless garbage: push
not have a job after graduation: push
So I think the answer is clear. There are no winners here, just bigger losers in Hyde Park.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:27PM
University of Arizona
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:27PM
Thunderbird
Done.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:29PM
@49 - funny, Columbia seems to produce more "we're a top business school too!!!" inferiority complexes than anywhere else, in my experience
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:29PM
Touro Skool of Business Things
Posted by shalimar , Mar 31, 2009 4:31PM
Reject both.
Get hired by a non-blowup oriented fund for being smart enough to save $xx and two years of her life.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:33PM
Too Summa: Didn't Cume Laude
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:35PM
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy who says shenaningans!
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:37PM
@54 shut up. we are too a to b school
seriously though. columbia. you can spend two years aimlessly walking around uris...meeting hot people
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:40PM
We hope you don't want to work in NYC...because it is not going to happen. Way too many other post MBA's looking for work with some experience which is more than what you will be able to offer.
Good luck with the MBA and hopefully you will get an internship and full time gig. Just talk to the first year MBA's...not pretty to say the least.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:40PM
Authentic GSB grad here saying Chicago. Its got the best finance in the country and the facilities are world class. Chicago is a very affordable city and easy to live in as a student. The weather sucks but it sucks in NY too. The only reason to attend Columbia instead is you want the NYC nightlife (which is better than Chicago)
Posted by merkin capital partners , Mar 31, 2009 4:40PM
Chi-Town---maybe you too can ride the bull market wave to riches while proposing absurd strong-form emh then have the school change their name while your funds are down ~25%.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:41PM
Speaking as a current Booth student... choose Chicago. Amazing facility, everyone lives downtown, so there is a socail life and over 30% of students return to NY after graduation.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:42PM
@58- "We hope you don't want to work in NYC...because it is not going to happen. Way too many other post MBA's looking for work with some experience which is more than what you will be able to offer."
umm, seriously? this person likely has at least a few years work experience, and is going to graduate from either columbia or chicago. she's going to have a leg up on wayyy more people looking for a job.
Posted by Anal_yst , Mar 31, 2009 4:43PM
@ Shalimar
If only it were that easy. Wonder if actually being up double digits in my (small) PA last year carries any weight in the b-school application and/or resume departments, hmmm
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:43PM
Go with Chicago. Slightly better school and the two years away from NY will probably do you a lot of good in terms of giving you perspective.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:43PM
Another authentic GSB grad saying... go to Chicago. Best for finance. Great city. Loads of people go on to NYC.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:44PM
What's her background? Math? Physics? maybe Econ?
It's up to her to live up to Chicago's rep?
No one, without hard math under their belt, understands options after a year at B-school. NO ONE.
Yes, this means you, the MO guy who just sprayed coke zero reading this. You "know of" options, maybe you can apply a formula to price / value them, that is all.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:45PM
If she is ugly and has no social skills, Chicago. If she is just ugly, then Columbia.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:45PM
More Nobel prizes from Univ of Chicago than any other University. Shouldnt that answer the question right there?
Oh and when you graduate, you get a kickass Bagpipe led procession into one of those most gothically awesome courtyards this side of Yale where you'll head a Titan on Wall St give your commencement address.
GSB baby!!
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:46PM
Another authentic GSB grad saying... to go ABH. Anywhere But Here.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:47PM
More Goldman bigwigs are from Chicago MBA than any other school other than Harvard
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:47PM
Chicago if you can stand the winter, which is marginally worse than NYC.
If this were a "single male in question" instead of a "lady" then McCombs all the way, marry an oil princess, and take it to the house.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:49PM
Just finished NYU MBA (got in before the whole blowup) For me I went part time so there was no other option besides NYU but full time I think it's an oppertunity to just get out o NYC for a while. For those of us who've been living here for a while (10 years for me) it would be great to have an excuse to just get out of here for 2 years and come back.
If the job market is back up and running in 2 years if you go to Columbia or Chicago it'll be somewhat equal in terms of getting a job most employers that are looking for MBA just want an MBA and you don't really learn many interesting cool things in b-school anyways.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:52PM
Now is a bad time to go $80k in debt for an MBA. Two years from now will be a bad time to be looking for a job in New York (especially in finance).
But if it's one or the other, pick Chicago. It's a bigger name and puts you in a better position to get a job after graduation (but you'll still be SOL).
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:53PM
@68
there was an article a few years ago (latimes or nytimes) about chicago's fucked up policies in regards to "claiming" noble prizes.
found it: http://articles.latimes.com/2005/oct/10/science/sci-nobelinflate10
read and weep, kook.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:54PM
@73- how will two years from now be any worse than trying to find a job in nyc right now?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:57PM
Columbia: 1) better access; 2) fewer nerds. Nearly every GSB grad I've met is introverted and/or dorky. The Columbia grads I've met are much more socially adept. She should only go to Chicago if she wants to spend two years running regressions and writing killer macros with IIT grads.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:58PM
Booth also refuses to disclose its admissions yield, presumably because it has to admit 75% of its applicant pool to fill the class. That would also explain why you get some very bright people but also a shocking number of people who are dumber than a pile of cow dung.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:58PM
@74
Actually Chicago's policy is about in line with most other schools. Columbia admittedly is one of the few schools who is a little stricter who they claim (they won't claim people affiliated with the school for less than one year whereas Chicago and 90% of the others do). That said, even if you adjust the numbers, Chicago's Nobel-winning prowess since it was founded about 100 yrs ago vastly outstrips that of any other school. So it's no surprise that there would be a lot of envy and bitterness about that, and there would be an article complaining about Chicago like you just posted. You can see the list of Nobel winners, adjusting the schools numbers so they're all apples to apples, if you really want to.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 4:59PM
Columbia. Because, if you are a musician and you leave NY for your education and abandon your Julliard acceptance you have abandoned all of the experiences you could have had in NY during your schooling which only accentuate the experience. Besides, don't you want to be with the people who have a proven track record of making a difference in everything they do.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:00PM
CBS alum here. Go to the school that has the stronger Career Office and alumni network. On both fronts, CBS is useless -- cant't speak for Booth.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:01PM
@79- go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:01PM
even though the choice is between CBS and Boof, the Boofies really need to chill... your school is still light-years away from H/S/W
and enough of this "best in Finance" BS, as Wharton was clearly better here than Booth, even before EMH, etc., epic-failed over the past 2 years
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:02PM
@78
"Renowned physicists Hans Bethe and Werner Heisenberg and economics guru Paul A. Samuelson are all counted among Chicago's Nobel brethren.
Wait a minute.
Didn't Bethe spend virtually his entire career at Cornell University? Isn't Samuelson considered the heart and soul of MIT economics? Did Heisenberg even spend more than a few months in Chicago?
"I think the University of Chicago counts everyone who ever walked through there," said Herbert Kroemer, a UC Santa Barbara professor who shared the Nobel Prize for physics in 2000."
BTW, UCSB has more national surfing championships than any other school (11). so, suck it.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:03PM
Boothington.
Winkie did his time and walked away with 150MM... err, 50MM-net. You'll learn 7th moment risks but fail to avoid shorting puts on your own stock. Regardless, you're summarily phucked if looking to the sell-side.
We could always use another lesbian at Booth.
Thanks for your support.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:06PM
@68 - They tend to exaggerate the Nobel Prize winner's connections to Chicago. If a Nobel Laureate had an idea while wiping his ass with toilet paper that was installed by someone who used to work in the dorm cafeteria, they get credited for having UofC ties.
I went Chicago undergrad and it is indeed where fun goes to die.
I think your friend is making a mistake crossing Stern off. Sure "The Roub" is a bit of a downer, but you have the pastel turtlenecks of Aswath Damodaran to turn that frown upside down!
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:06PM
My firm recruits at both Colubmia and Chicago, and I interview people at both schools. The top students at Chicago are smarter than most any other school, but rarely are they well-rounded enough to do anything but sit in front of a screen in the basement. They also fall hard for that Chicago-school economic theory, which is a different topic altogether. Those that do have a personality succeed in finance in a major way (top posts at Goldman, etc), but they are not the majority. Columbia also has smart students, but not as many outliers, and not nearly as many closet cases as Chicago. More also have legit international backgrounds than at Chicago, and they do have students that go into non-finance fields.
Chicago is a one trick pony, but it is a good trick if you can pull it off. Columbia is broader and deeper, and overall better by a small margin.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:08PM
i think university of chicago students (at least the couple i know) now prefer the slogan: where the only thing that goes down on you are your grades.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:09PM
@ 86, THANK YOU. That was precisely the sort of answer I was looking for.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:10PM
@82 - wharton student, eh?
LOL
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:12PM
I know its not a major Wall St feeder but anyone have some thoughts on UCLA Anderson
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:12PM
@7 skip those schools and apply direct for the Denny's management training program.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:13PM
Chicago. Spend a little time out of New York, good school. Lots of associates in my class were from UChicago (whether still there or not, I have no idea).
From what I hear, Columbia and Stern folks are expected to do way too much boot-licking, i mean, "informational interviews" for anyone with even an ounce of self respect.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:15PM
Just got admitted at Duke Fuqua emba, top tier and rising!
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:16PM
Just got admitted at Duke Fuqua emba, top tier and rising!
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:16PM
@90
Anderson is good for SoCal that's about it. If you want to be in LA or SD, then it is a good choide
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:16PM
@90
Anderson is good for SoCal that's about it. If you want to be in LA or SD, then it is a good choice
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:16PM
@92 - that's what my concern would be too. I have been horrified hearing about the "mandatory ass-kissing sessions" the students have to do. Better that they fly into Chicago on one specified day, interview you and leave.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:16PM
@84 Assuming that she is a lesbian, and she clearly is (otherwise why would she even consider Chicago), the she can get younger and fresher talent at Columbia due to its proximity to a very well known lesbian Barn.
Just tell her to hang out around the undergrad library on Sat evenings.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:18PM
Chicago. It's a slightly better school. Also take the opportunity to try something besides New York. You never know you might like it out there and you will be able to make some contacts while you are out there. I presume that after working in NYC you will still have some contacts in NYC as well. It is probably best to keep as many doors open as possible.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:20PM
Booth. Not as cocky as those Columbia types and the anti-social stereotype is only 90% true. Obviously Columbia has an edge getting to NY right out of school, but after that, who cares?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:24PM
Why doesn't she attend the school most willing to help her finance her degree?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:25PM
@98- she's not.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:25PM
@ 93/94 - fuqua=worst place on earth.....
have fun in durham
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:27PM
Isn't Fuckwa the place where half of class of 1st years cheated on a take-home marketing exam? That entire school should be nuked if that is true.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:30PM
Johnson School at Cornell. You get to freeze your arse off in Ithaca AND drive 4 hours back and forth to NYC to bootlick every week. Career services is awesome and you get a free hotdog and beers every week!
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:31PM
@102 How do you know? Did you try to hit on her?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:33PM
@106- or perhaps she's reading the comments, genius?
-not 102
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:37PM
CU graduate here, but I did drink with the CBSers from time to time, and I put up with their dumfuckery daily at work, so....
If you've been in NYC for awhile (10 years?), then maybe it's time for a break. If not, then.....
If you really want to do something technical, then do something technical. Get a degree in Stats, Math, physics, or something similar. If you're doing an MBA, then (hopefully!) you're trying to be some sort of decently rounded human being. In which case, avoid Chicago like the plague.
In any case, the quants (by my count, about 2/3 Physics Phds, 1/3 Math and Stats) will laugh at any analytical skills you might pick up in BS, and since BS won't teach you to be a halfway decent programmer, any actual skills you gain will be more or less useless. Unless the power goes out, in which case you can wow your friends by doing Black Scholes with pen and paper, if they're nerds and went to Chicago.
My advice, such as it is.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:38PM
@102, how is that possible?
Does she possess any of the invaluable "Booth" traits:
1) Has sparrows nesting in her bush
2) Wears a "Live Strong" bracelet
3) Sports a "rainbow" retainer
If you have to ask... she's a bro-in-waiting
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:41PM
@109- um, per the post, she applied to a bunch of schools, she hasn't yet matriculated or graduated or adopted the "traits" of any yet.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:42PM
To all of the commenters on this thread, your advice is invaluable. I sincerely appreciate it.
@106/109, however:
If professing that I am lesbian reverses the utter emasculation you feel knowing that a girl is not only more intelligent, but infinitely more fuckable than you will ever be, I forgive you. To err is only human.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:48PM
Johnson School at Cornell. You get to freeze your arse off in Ithaca AND drive 4 hours back and forth to NYC to bootlick every week. Career services is awesome and you get a free hotdog and beers every week!
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:48PM
OK, fair enough, although this thread is useless without pics. Seriously, neither Booth nor CBS will guarantee an S&T job. If you're not Summa then both schools suck for placement.
I was placed in a mid-market fund upon graduation, so I would recommend she focus on buy-side networking when the time comes.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:49PM
Anyone with an opinion about Harvard vs. Stanford?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:50PM
"more fuckable." nice.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:51PM
@108
I agree completely. You are not a quant if you went to Booth for an MBA and have no other advanced degree in math, science or engineering. MBAs don't learn BGM, stochastic vol etc. in their finance classes- just freshman/sophomore material at a top 50 state school.
Enough with "tops in finance" comments.
Your profs are smart != you are smart
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:51PM
@111 Sounds like what a lesbian would say.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:51PM
b school not worth it unless it's h/s/w. and frankly, i would narrow that to h/w
Posted by Investorcluzo , Mar 31, 2009 5:52PM
harvard doesn't have a golf course, but you appreciate the seasons a lot more. if you go left coast you have deal with the tree hugging set. that said, if you go to hbs, you have to deal with all the haters...
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 5:53PM
@114 - depends what you want to do, but i think definitely harvard over stanford on the basis of reputation. also, harvard has a much bigger class (approx 900 vs. approx 350) which means that the network you have access to is substantially larger. This is half the value...
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:01PM
HBS is hands down the way to go, as opposed to.
Huge network, instant name recognition. Strong reputation (in spite of the efforts of some alumni, Skilling, Bush to name two).
Unless you really wanted to work in the Valley after B-school, think Harvard wins. Even then, if you were thinking VC/PE, think Harvard is stronger than Stanford.
Not saying Stanford's bad (far from it).
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:01PM
HBS is hands down the way to go, as opposed to Stanford.
Huge network, instant name recognition. Strong reputation (in spite of the efforts of some alumni, Skilling, Bush to name two).
Unless you really wanted to work in the Valley after B-school, think Harvard wins. Even then, if you were thinking VC/PE, think Harvard is stronger than Stanford.
Not saying Stanford's bad (far from it).
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:11PM
tard@121/122-- did you see harvard (or stanford for that matter) listed as an option?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:12PM
Washington and Lee University.
Suck it, Philly.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:14PM
@111, you got my number sister! Whoa, what a sense of relief. The apple-tinis are on me.
The Booth degree will not be a solid ROI in this environment. Welcome to the land of Kraft Foods Product Management. The sell-side will trade at a 5 PE for the next century. IOW, you're f*cked.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:18PM
Where did Madoff go? I hope it was Fuqua.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:20PM
As someone who visited both this year (and applied), I thought the columbia kids struck me as young and immature. Class experience wasn't particularily impressive. Good looking girls though.
Better classroom experience at chicago. Better curriculum set up at Chicago (very flexible), good to get out of new york.
I want nothing to do with finance anymore (PE, banking - current/previously) and chose Chicago. Great city, escape from the cash-suck that is new york. Columbia also struck me as a a bit of a day-school.
Columbia's chief pitch is New York (go to an info session and tell me otherwise - you can't), whereas other schools (Chicago included) realize that their strength lies not only in geographic location, but other attributes.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:23PM
Kenan - Flagler, bitches
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:29PM
@125- seriously? how so is she anymore fucked than anyone else? seems she's going to come out in two years in a better position than, not all, but a vast majority of people. EVERYONE is equally fucked right now.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:33PM
I got into both 3 yrs ago, chose Chicago because it's a better finance school. Got pretty much my dream job at a hedge fund. Maybe could have gotten the same job from CBS, who knows, but I think Chicago is the better school, marginally.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:35PM
129, elasticity of demand, something they teach before B-school. IMO, there will be very little employment outside of product lines; i.e., PG, JNJ, etc.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:36PM
I also have to choose between Booth and Columbia... no idea which way i'm going to go...
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:40PM
I know a girl going to Columbia's Bschool next year. She's beautiful but also a klepto. Go figure.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:41PM
Can anyone comment on Price College of Business as compared with these two?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:41PM
Go to law/med school, at least you graduate with a utility, instead of case study knowledge that doesn't even apply anymore...
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:42PM
so children, the moral of the story is that if you have any brains at all, you go to chicago.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:47PM
My first job out of grad-school was in an analyst role at a large Chicago fund. Many GSB grads applied, but none of the Chicago-hires were from GSB, all hard science.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 6:50PM
UD Rules!!!!!
The Other Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 7:05PM
Defer Columbia by one year and turn it into a 3 year vaca, the banks will be outta the news by then and you'll land a job at any one of the fine chop shops in nyc with no problem
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 7:12PM
Why can no one see the forest? Either way, you are paying higher prices than a year ago for an asset whose value has fallen off a cliff. The few who seem to understand this get the first part, but not the more important second part. It is not a cyclical drop in the value of an MBA (suspect to many of us from the get-go, including those of us who ponied up,) but a structural decline. Look at where the bodies are buried. Every one an MBA. The MBA degree will save the albatross from extinction.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 7:18PM
Also, going way back up the post, to the moron who was talking about the mathematical skills required to price options (female, obviously), they are priced according to fear, greed, size of one's mortgage payment, current grade of hangover, and intensity of present hardon. No math anywhere, save the hooker budget because no way you can explain to the wife what you do all day.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 7:37PM
university of phoenix online - take our jobs back from the chinese and indians.
no more cats for lunch and more of us can serve slurpees.
Posted by shalimar , Mar 31, 2009 7:39PM
@ 63. It is. Although, for a new applicant (to BS or a fund), your approach (shown through innovation in the application method itself) would be more prized. PA management only matters if you're applying to be a PM.
@ Bess
Count for people I'd hire:
CBS: 0
GSB: 1 (JD/MBA who's apparently smarter than the girl I'd love to recruit)
Objectively, Harper is more isolated than CBS, and hence more conducive to the important things in the program: meeting future partners in bed and for business.
@ CBS/GSB
No offense. I only have the people I've met as reference points. CBS has a good value investing program, and GSB kids tend to have a better macro perspective.
Posted by shalimar , Mar 31, 2009 7:41PM
On the topic of b-schools. Anyone know where the perfect PE girl is heading to after graduation?
http://nymag.com/fashion/lookbook/32096/
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 7:44PM
Are you still employed? If so, don't underestimate
your opportunities with your present employer.
Can you sell yourself into other positions as
everyone with 'talent' leaves for greener pastures.
Don't worry, you can adapt.
If you have lost your job, agree with previous post.
Defer one year and travel. Go on the three year
plan.
Seahag
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 7:57PM
if you want a good shot at working on what's left of the street, chicago. if you want an ok shot and to live in nyc, columbia. i've hired mbas for 15 years- chicago mbas are always good, if a bit nerdy (good luck with that one). columbia mbas are generally fine but quality is not as reliable.
@133, beautiful AND a klepto? man, that's awesome - klepto's just wanna be spanked, so beautiful is a real plus
odds of finding a beautiful klepto:
Chicago: 0.03%
Columbia: 12.5%
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 8:07PM
clown shalimar@#144...
If that ugly thing in your link from 2 years ago is still even B-school, a lot may have changed for that ugly thing.
TGFD had to say that twice because she is f'n ugly.
BTW, whoTF cares about your make-believe hiring practices in #143 anyway? What would you know from your job in Macy's basement?
Good Grief! What a tool, with a personality to match.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 8:15PM
listen you nerds,
between 55% punitive tax rates and the reenactment of the glass steagall act, which not coincidentally was repealed due the efforts of neo-liberals and neo-conservatives working together (uh-oh...codespeak!), you will never earn more than 25% of typical 2000 - 2007 comp.
allowing access to bank deposits by grubby investment bankers is exactly waht caused the first depression, and it's exactly what's causing the worst wealth wipeout since the great depression.
38 of 45 senate democrats voted yay, so save the righteousness.
i'm still cracking up that my fellow wall street idiots and media friends perpetrated the obama ram job to the white house.
it's like the stories i've heard where the first jews the nazis gassed were the slave jews they forced to build the gas chambers.
people suck.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 8:18PM
your b school degree and a token might get you on the subway
lol
congrats to all future homeless mba's spending their time on db
get some street smarts pussies
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 8:35PM
@144- she got fired after that article came out.
Posted by shalimar , Mar 31, 2009 8:48PM
@147
Obviously you're not a golfer.
Despite that, you seem like one of those bright strapping lads who insist on asking Terry (he stops by the basement occasionally to check out the Revise gear) whether gross margins in 3Q 2012 will be 20 or 23 bps wider, so that you can model your DCF accurately.
I'd highly encourage applying for our GMA training program for that hands-on control on that oh so important spread.
http://tinyurl.com/cfmqul
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 9:02PM
If you have any people skills, you will be ahead of most MBA graduates regardless of where you go but everyone tends to looks for a brand. Both schools are top tier so figure out which best suits your personality. If I'm interviewing an MBA, I'm looking for someone who is easy to work with and that clients will like. I refuse to put anyone in front of a client who talks to their shoes or pronounces volatility as "walatility". It frustrates the shit out of clients and is bad for business. If I'm looking for a quant or programmer, I'm not interviewing MBA graduates.
- Fixed Income
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 9:12PM
Whats wrong with Dartmouth?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 9:16PM
@153- by the "too hanover" is sounds like she doesn't want to be in the middle of the woods.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 9:19PM
@153- dartmouth's fine for undergrad when all you want to do is drink and fuck the same 5 people but do you really want to be so isolated, not in the city, with TONS of snow in your mid to late 20s?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 9:30PM
Whats Tucks rep in finance? recruiters?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 9:33PM
is this girl's name bonnie or jenny?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 9:43PM
@157- what are you talking about?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:04PM
In summary of these posts, as a CBS grad, I'm ugly with a high probability of being not so bright and a klepto. I have no quant skills, but am social. At least social enough to have blown every "informational interviewer" out there. Everyone here is basing their opinions on their experience of n
Every school will have their outliers on both ends of the curve. Choose the school that appeals to you when you visit the campus and talk to the alumni. Each school has a different personality. Graduating from either will not guarantee you a job in finance, but it will give you a leg up. The rest you will have to do on your own.
Beyond that, @86 said it best.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:09PM
U of Chi has the hottest coeds around
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:10PM
If you are interested in going into HF after graduation, I would go to CBS as they have the value investing program.
It is highly respected by most funds and all the kids that went through the program made it to top shops...
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:25PM
If someone hasn't developed social skills by B-School there is no hope for them anyway. If you go to Booth you ain't going to live in Hyde Park like the awful college students - you'll be dtown.
Booth - better school, not in NY
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:25PM
@144 Should've spent her money wisely...skip HBS and get a proper nosejob.
-My 2 Cents
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:30PM
Bess,
If this friend of yours loves NY so much that returning there after b-school to work is a condition for picking her school, she better pick Columbia.
Your friend better get all the face time with New York she can get right now because NY as it exists will be UNRECOGNIZABLE in two years.
Problem with Columbia is their students are so self-centered that they aren't even willing to help each other out.
Chicago guys and gals are infinitely more supportive.
Don't waste your time trying to get a job with a fund or in IB. Finance fucking sucks. Get your vacay, but you belong in entertainment. Write your book or screenplay while in school and make the right contacts to be able to sell it on your terms.
The secret: Chicago is basically just as cool as New York. California is so much cooler than both of them that it isn't even worth talking about.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:36PM
From @7
I'm a dude so I can pole dance - job market for trading is tight and don't want to wait another year to get started....
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:39PM
Dear DB readers, I'm graduating from one of the schools mentioned in this poll- and I haven't found anyone (not one single person anywhere) who is willing to pay me for my employment.
So I've been reading a lot and career gurus say "Do what you love and you will never work a day in your life."
So what if I enjoy most is waking up at 10:30 and catching Erin Burnett on TV while reading wsj.com, nytimes.com, Wall Street Oasis and Dealbreaker. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Rebecca Jarvis (U. of Chicago, 2003)
Trish Regan (Columbia University, 2000)
I say Jarvis, b/c Regan is married.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:40PM
@165 - "tight"? Job market for trading is non-existent.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:44PM
GSB - despite high foreign concentration and a lack of hardbodies, a better program.
Columbia - childish fools that overpay for New York real estate and underpaying jobs.
My vote goes to HBS.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:44PM
GSB - despite high foreign concentration and a lack of hardbodies, a better program.
Columbia - childish fools that overpay for New York real estate and underpaying jobs.
My vote goes to HBS.
Posted by Garuda , Mar 31, 2009 10:46PM
Don't go to business school. That path is done. The 90's are over, the 80's are over. Re-think everything you know and start over. Bhutan might be a good place to start.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:49PM
@169
why HBS? undeserved arrogance or championship bull shitting ability?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 10:51PM
Why has Ross not been mentioned thus far?
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 11:41PM
If you go to U Chi know that you will never be as smart as the undergraduates. Never.
Posted by guest , Mar 31, 2009 11:42PM
illiterate@172- b/c she choosing between chicago and columbia.
168/169- thanks for the worthless two cents, as HBS is not in the running.
rambling man @164- you went off into a lot of places there but re this:
"Don't waste your time trying to get a job with a fund or in IB. Finance fucking sucks. Get your vacay, but you belong in entertainment. Write your book or screenplay while in school and make the right contacts to be able to sell it on your terms."
umm. why would you think the friend would have anything to write about/is a writer? you know we're not talking about bess here, correct?
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 12:19AM
@174
Bess has talked about grad school a lot in the past year and she always seems to mention Chicago.
Now she is reaching out to her fans for advice via "her friend".
Bess,
Move out to Napa with me and let's sling some grapes. F grad school.
~164
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 12:24AM
@175- um, when has she ever talked about grad school 1, and 2. it's EP that talks about Chicago, presumably because she lives there. Get you editors straight.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 12:27AM
@175- FAIL. with the exception of the SAC chicago office story, it's by and large EP that talks about the windy city, not Bess.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 12:33AM
@ 175, Do you have Go-Go gadget arms too?
-The 'Alleged' Friend
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 12:42AM
"Just finished NYU MBA (got in before the whole blowup) For me I went part time so there was no other option besides NYU but full time I think it's an oppertunity to just get out o NYC for a while. For those of us who've been living here for a while (10 years for me) it would be great to have an excuse to just get out of here for 2 years and come back."
Fuck knows why the Stern MBA comes in for grief half the time. Part time. Was the rest of the time spent, erm.... learning to spell shit??
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 12:47AM
@68 - At what point is someone having a Nobel Prize, or - better - a Nobel Prize from a school and being dead, really going to pass for anything with a BSchool student.
You are hardly fishing in the greatest academic pond at Business School, as much as the rest of the pond can give you a great powerpoint presentation or recommendation to tell you otherwise.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 12:47AM
@179- it's called working and going to school at night, jackass.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 1:03AM
i wud like the oppertunity to werk 4 food, 181.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 1:41AM
Columbia for sure. Far less conservative and more diverse crowd and it is in NYC. Columbia also has stiglitz and greenblatt.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 3:53AM
i believe that EP went to U Chi undergrad
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 6:02AM
@183: You think it's a positive thing to go to school with a bunch of fucking hipster liberals?
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 6:11AM
actually, i rescind post 184.
EP went to UChi for a worthless 2 years of graduate school.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 7:09AM
U of C ... Always enjoyed my easy pot smoking breaks on the riverwalk area by the school.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 7:28AM
I can weigh in on the Chi/GSB/Booth.
Yes, it's true that nerdy, social awkward types self select there. If you're not already socially challenged, I can promise you that Chi won't change that. In fact, you'll stand out to recruiters. If you're already that way, well what does it matter? It's doubtful any b-school is going to fix that for you (I'd recommend psychotherapy). So the whole stereotypical student argument is a non-issue.
The academics at Chi are solid. It's possible to actually learn something useful there. The faculty (in the aggregate) is brilliant. Although, be prepared to hear a lot of the finance professors lecturing with the theme "I told your dumb asses this would happen" with regard to the current clusterfuck.
If you have a finance bent, you won't have much a problem taking your pick from whatever selection of jobs is out there.
Can't speak for Columbia. But to be honest, I doubt either school will have a major impact on your career outcome.
Pick the school that fits you best or interests you the most.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 7:28AM
tuck! chicago and columbia are both jokes.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 7:44AM
I ran MBA recruiting for several years at a major bank that still exists.
Both schools did well. It was easier to get senior management involved with Columbia due to proximity but Chicago had better depth and did a better job of preparing students to do well. Chicago did somewhat better overall due to raw numbers getting jobs at my bank and and at competitors.
The right question to ask is how well do the students do 5-10 years out. On that score, it was not even close. Chicago absolutely destroyed Columbia. In fact, based on our data, the only two schools that came close to Chicago in terms of personnel getting promoted and paid well were MIT and Darden.
The sample sizes were different (Darden was especially small) but there were more than enough students from MIT, Chicago, Wharton, Anderson (UCLA), Tuck, Northwestern, Columbia, and NYU to see patterns emerge.
Chicago has the best academic preparation for finance. In general, students also have a pretty low sense of entitlement. You do have a higher number of career switchers and international students than most of the other schools, but in general that plays well for non-career switchers by comparison in the recruiting process. It's definitely geekier, and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.
Bottom line: If you still want to do finance and believe the industry is viable, go to Chicago. If you don't--why are you considering business school at all in a rough climate? And if you are looking for a hideout that still has enough credibility to come back to the industry if you change your mind, assuming you can't get into Stanford, go to UCLA (Anderson).
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 10:12AM
B school is useless for actually learning how to DO anything. However, if you insist on going, Chicago is the superior choice. At least you will gain/augment a modest mathematical background. If math doesn't figure in to your view of finance, then reconsider your career choice.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 10:22AM
Whats the tuck stereotype?
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 10:29AM
@ 192
There is no Tuck stereotype. It's a terrific school, the kids are really bright, and they have a very tight knit community (akin to Stanford) due to its isolation. I really can't rate my visit there highly enough though, and they appeared to have a strong legacy of entrepeneurship.However you really have to be a person who enjoys rural atmospheres at this age, and when I weighed that I realized it might drive me a bit batty.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 11:07AM
I've said it before - I'll say it again:
There are only three business schools in America that matter: MIT, Chicago, and Wharton.
Everything else is a country club or a marketing school.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 11:37AM
Depends on what you want and what your strengths are. I was debating between the 2 schools and applied to Columbia only because is less geekish and people there are more well rounded. Even though I love math, I also have other interests, such as sports and playing an instrument. I'd rather have a more balanced experience and also better access to networking on Wall Street.
Columbia student 2011
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 1:51PM
@195
Two points:
- Well rounded is a euphenism for someone who has no particular talent in any area - just comprehensive mediocrity
- You're going to business school to play sports and a musica instrument? You don't need to drop $200k to do that, chief.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 3:24PM
@155: Everyone knows Tuckies are the happiest MBA students. Don't be ignorant.
And Hanover pretty much has the same weather as Chicago
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 4:28PM
so I believe Wharton MBAs and freshman in the College of Arts & Sciences both study macro from Abel & Bernanke.
So my question is:
1) why don't they make the MBA curriculum at Wharton and elsewhere more difficult? maybe below a masters in financial math but above freshman econ?
2) what else do you get for 100K tuition besides drinking with the same bunch of people for two years?
(Penn SEAS '09, Mech. Eng)
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 4:42PM
Tuck wins hands down. 2 year escape from the city filled with drinking, skiing and banging undergrad sorority chicks.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 4:45PM
@199-- the subject in question is a chick, so, you FAIL.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 5:03PM
@199
my sister was in a sorority at Dartmouth- they don't go for Tuck guys, they are way too old and out of the frat-sorority ecosystem.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 7:10PM
@198 - hanging out with the same bunch of people for 2 years is more invaluable than you think. Take from me - M&T@Penn and CBS.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 9:01PM
Kinda simple actually... Write to both Chicago and Columbia and tell them of the choices you have, and try to negotiate a scholarship. You just might be surprised!
Though the $10K/$20K in scholarship won't make a real difference, the fact that you got a scholarship won't look bad on your intership resume.
In case you get scholarships from both the places, take the one that offers you a lower amount. The other one sucks cause it needs you that badly!
Case solved.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 11:16PM
I was awarded a full ride to Darden but accepted to Columbia with little money. Can anyone convince me that taking the full ride to Darden is a bad idea? By the way, I waiting to hear back from Wharton. Thanks.
Posted by guest , Apr 01, 2009 11:52PM
Carnegie Mellon - go Steelers!!
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 8:42AM
@204. Graduating with
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 8:52AM
@204, sorry I meant MORE than 100K
-206
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 10:12AM
Tuck
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 1:00PM
Columbia hands down over Chicago (and no, I didn't go to Columbia - in fact I turned down offers from both Columbia and Chicago). Going to Columbia basically = advertising for the rest of your life that you didn't get into one of the top 3, but going to Chicago means advertising you couldn't even get into Columbia. To the several Tuck boosters on this board....Tuck is below even Kellogg, you know that? Tuck is like a step above Yale (which is at the level of Cornell/Univ of Texas at Austin). So seriously, you Tuckies are kidding, I hope. No one is that clueless where they'd give up going to a legitimate program - be it Columbia or Chicago - to go to a program everyone who's anyone snickers at.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 1:44PM
@209 I thought most MBAs were big tools but you may well win the grand prize. Congratulations.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 2:08PM
@210
Get back on your bike and deliver my lunch - you're 10 minutes late!
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 2:13PM
@209 Went to McCombs and guaranty that I make probably 3x what you make, assuming you have a job...plus i have a 10 minute commute and don't live like a rat in a cage
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 2:36PM
209 here
@212 that's "guarantee," not "guaranty" ... I guess despite the spaciousness of the living quarters you're boasting about there's still no room for a dictionary. My "cage" is 2500 square feet of brazilian hardwood with a Viking kitchen (which I'm sure is not up to your standards, so I'm completely shamed by you).
@210
Oh, you're cutting me deep, man, real real deep. Hey, isn't it kinda of funny that you think we're all "tools" and yet you're spending your time reading an article and website that's geared towards us "tools"? I mean, I hate to point out something so logical, but it's got me laughing out loud!
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 2:39PM
@209 all in good fun
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 2:44PM
@209 All I'm saying is that is doesn't really matter where you go to school...if you have average intelligence and good bullsh-t you're good. As long as you're happy 209, I'm happy.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 2:46PM
@52
"@49 - funny, Columbia seems to produce more "we're a top business school too!!!" inferiority complexes than anywhere else, in my experience"
this is very true - except for Chicago. Chicago is basically in the same we're-not-top 3 boat as Columbia, while still being a good, legitimate, solid school.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 3:15PM
why are you all obsessed with MBA rankings? the degree is complete bullshit anyway even at your precious H/S/W... unless
1) you're foreign
2) went to a non-target for undergad and want to work on the street
3)you graduated in 2002-3
4) you failed at your first attempt at a career
there is no need for an MBA.
Also, 90%+ of "elite" MBAs probably couldn't get into their respective institutions for undergrad.
@209 how did you do on the SAT big shot?
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 3:22PM
217:
I work at a hedge fund and we don't recruit MBAs but I think PE firms pre credit crunch liked HBS and Stanford alums so they could network and find out about obscure private companies.
In general I agree that an MBA is a joke but most people want a break from the drudgery that is work.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 3:32PM
a while back on WSO:
First of all, the academics are completely and utterly worthless. If you're even remotely smart, don't expect even the slightest bit of intellectual challenge (unless you're taking some PhD courses instead of the regular MBA ones, which I highly recommend). The issue is that professors are usually trying to keep their classes as accessible as possible, and are therefore targeting the greatest common denominator among a highly disparate range of student backgrounds. As a consequence, most classes and homeworks are necessarily of the "feel-good" type, rather than work that really pushes your boundaries. Unless you're a complete moron, it's almost impossible to do worse than a B. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that school work doesn't take up a lot of time (you still have to physically go to class, meet up with teams, read the cases, do the write-ups, etc.), it just means that the work isn't very helpful or rewarding relative to the time invested in it. In addition, there's the well-known adage that "those who can, do it, those who can't, teach it", which definitely applies to b-school professors... I definitely feel I learned more in a day of work during my internship or as a consultant than in a semester at b-school. And in terms of intellectual stimulation, my undergrad was much more rigorous and entertaining.
The worst part, however, are the people. I'm obviously generalizing here, but B-school classes tend to be dominated by shallow, aggressive type-A personalities: people who are arrogant, loud, flat as a pancake, and in general incapable of introspection or reflection on anything beyond sports, sex and money. They are usually also of very mediocre intelligence (as compared to e.g. law school or PhD students), have poor real-world skills (other than superficial self-confidence), and they also tend to have a surprisingly uneven professional track record. (For those who don't believe this: remember that the smartest, nicest and most successful people in business obviously never have to go to b-school in the first place: they get directly promoted to Associate, go to PE after a consulting or banking stint, or continue running their own successful business...) While there are obviously exceptions, social life in b-school is therefore centered around parties, clubbing and drinking binges. It is easy to make small-talk, but hard to have a meaningful conversation with anyone. Easy to make acquaintances, hard to make friends.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 5:21PM
PT'ers suck.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 5:56PM
@217
209 here. 1580 out of 1600. 800 Math. 780 Verbal. Took the SAT 1x. Went to the same school for undergrad and MBA. None of your 4 "points" apply to me. Speaking of which, what is your point, anyway? Oh, right. That I'm a loser. Right you are.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 6:01PM
guest@#204...
Don't be foolish. Take the full-ride award. Forget about any perceived prestege that you'll have to pay for by going into debt.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 6:50PM
@221
what exactly do you do? 1580 is a damn impressive score if you actually scored it.
Exotics? Vol trading? Correlation? oh wait, you're an MBA.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 7:02PM
I'm head of research at RenTech where I do statistical arbitrage- I did my undergrad in math and physics at Caltech where I was top 5 in the Putnam exam several times- PhD at MIT in math and post-doc at Berkeley under a Fields medalist.
I was then an assistant and associate professor at Princeton, got tenure and joined Renaissance where I prove theorems weekly with Jim Simons. Sometimes we prank call David Shaw.
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 7:08PM
imposter@224- it's RenTec, no 'h.'
Posted by guest , Apr 02, 2009 7:27PM
Probably the hardest way to earn $2500 there is:
The 2008 Putnam Fellows--The Five Highest Ranking Individuals
Each receives an award of $2,500.
BRIAN R. LAWRENCE
California Institute of Technology
SEOK HYEONG LEE
Stanford University
ARNAV TRIPATHY
Harvard University
BOHUA ZHAN
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
YUFEI ZHAO
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 8:05AM
@209/213
So let me get this straight: I need to pay $100,000 and spend 2 years of my life around people like this?
Thanks anyway, but I think I'll pass. Where I come from, know-it-all a-holes with expensive kitchens are free.
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 8:52AM
@217: You said "Also, 90%+ of "elite" MBAs probably couldn't get into their respective institutions for undergrad."
That's really not an accurate statement. At schools like H/S/W the vast majority of the MBAs did in fact go to similar schools for ugrad. I went to Wharton and there were many people in my class who went to schools like Harvard or Stanford for ugrad.
Granted, there were a good number of people who went to lower tier schools and then worked their way up. But isn't that one of the benefits of any graduate program--the ability work your ass off and better yourself? There are plenty of people in top PhD programs, law schools, med schools, etc. who went to lower tier schools as well, and busted their asses to get into top-notch grad programs. That's not unique to MBA programs, nor is it something to look down upon....
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 8:58AM
@209, check collated rankings and admission stats for tuck. you're both wrong and a complete dick.
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 10:48AM
@229, did you read Bess's original statement? Tuck is summarily crossed off the list, along with NYU. Meaning, not even in the running. As it should be. It doesn't even rank enough for the question to be asked. The point of the blog is, Chicago or Columbia. Because that's actually something realistic you would want to think about. Whereas if the choice was Chicago/Tuck or Columbia/Tuck or even Kellogg/Tuck, it wouldn't even be a question.
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 11:05AM
@230, what's wrong with NYU? It has a very good Finance program.
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 11:15AM
@229 usually people who went to the top schools don't really know exactly how it stacks up at the lower schools. probably not intentional.
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 11:36AM
Can anyone comment on Economics Masters programs? Would it be more advisable / useful for bschool undergrads to pursue one of these Econ degrees rather than an MBA, which essentially exposes one to the same material that they've learned already? Not referring to Phd Econ, but terminal Masters degrees...
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 11:37AM
Can anyone comment on Economics Masters programs? Would it be more advisable / useful for bschool undergrads to pursue one of these Econ degrees rather than an MBA, which essentially exposes one to the same material that they've learned already? Not referring to Phd Econ, but terminal Masters degrees...
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 11:38AM
Can anyone comment on Economics Masters programs? Would it be more advisable / useful for bschool undergrads to pursue one of these Econ degrees rather than an MBA, which essentially exposes one to the same material that they've learned already? Not referring to Phd Econ, but terminal Masters degrees...
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 1:16PM
are you thinking NYU, Duke for example? I think there's a lot of room to challenge yourself and the material will be interesting (though substantially more difficult than what one would be exposed to in an MBA or BBA.)
that said, from a recruitment standpoint, it's a bit difficult because you might be overqualified for analyst positions and most associate-level recruiting takes place at the B-school.
The advantage of an MA in econ is that if you do well, you make a compelling case for PhD admission officers uinlike an MBA, where high academic performance doesn't get you into any other graduate programs.
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 2:33PM
@236, thank you for your points made. I agree, especially with your last point re: chance for Phd admission being a big plus.
to the rest of you doochebags talkin bschool and all....do you guys ever get laid? just wondering...
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 2:33PM
@236, thank you for your points made. I agree, especially with your last point re: chance for Phd admission being a big plus.
to the rest of you doochebags talkin bschool and all....do you guys ever get laid? just wondering...
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 2:52PM
@238. yes, we do.
We've got to try and authenticate logins for this site to actual bankers.We're now going so far down in the DNA pool that we're getting people who are aspiring to masters degrees in Econ on this board.Why don't you apply to Tuck or Fuquah or something.You may not get in, but it's the effort that counts. Remember? That's what mommy and daddy always told you when you were a kid, usually after you lost yet another fight/grade/girl/etc/etc to the sorry MBAs on this board.
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 4:52PM
@239
You make it sound like banking is some sort of high art on par with engineering R&D or something. I was an IB analyst in the mid 90s and the work was mind numbingly boring. Hours and hours of facetime and bullshit financial projections that turned out to be complete garbage.
I could have done the job somewhere after freshman year of high school- in fact, anybody walking down the street can do the job with a class in Excel.
oh yeah, if you were truly smart and productive, you wouldn't be on Dealbreaker during business hours.
-not 237/238
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 6:14PM
@240 sounds like you went to fuck-wa or tuck
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 9:15PM
@240
Analysts are the hardest people to hire in any investment bank, simply because they are relatively young and have no real track record, and they are being asked to do the banking equivalent of "taking out the trash." The best of the IBs have hired some dreadful analysts; we've all been guilty of hiring losers.
@239 never said anything about intellectual rigor of banking that I can see.
Banking doesn't require a genius intellect, but it does require consistent attention to detail and awareness that poor assumptions will lead to untenable conclusions. Without this capability, you end up as a 40-something ex-analyst who was never any good at his job of IB garbageman, trolling banker websites 20 years later looking at blogs about business school rankings.
If you're in a top IB in a group that's top of the street, you'll be too busy working on actual deals, whether they ultimately get done or not, to have to worry about face time. If your spreadsheets were garbage-out, that's because you built them with garbage-in. Of course I repeat myself, since we already established that you were a very poor garbageman. Wow, to be in your 40s and reading a banker website about business schools...just had to think about that again...
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 10:28PM
hello 242, 240 here- thank you for your concern. I was an analyst at DLJ from 96-98. I'd rather not specify my group but it was quite successful at what it did. I'm 34 now, does that make me some sort of wizened old derelict?
What's the age of the average DB poster? I read from time to time because of Bess and the snarky comments. It's just when people insult other posters' intelligence like 239's "DNA" comment, well, it's really uncalled for.
Posted by guest , Apr 03, 2009 10:39PM
240/243 again- one more thing 242, how good are your financial models? how accurate are they? I mean do ever go back to anything you put together two years ago and see how well it turned out? I'm guessing it's a huge train wreck.
I mean if you are that much better than this "IB garbageman", you should be on some list in II Alpha not a bumblefuck relationship banker kissing corporate ass for a living.
Also, Dealbreaker is not just for IBD but all of Wall Street, loosely defined.
Posted by guest , Apr 04, 2009 2:04PM
a serious bit of advice for the guy: go to all of the schools admitted students events. especially tuck's. it gives a good idea of what the experience will actually be like, and whether you'll like it. i went to tuck and absolutely loved it, and i'd never lived outside a big city before. don't dismiss it out of hand.
Posted by guest , Apr 05, 2009 1:00PM
Columbia. Better school, better access to alum, better everything. GMAT scores are pretty much the same at both (Columbia is a bit higher) so quality of students is a wash, except of course that most people accepted to both go to Columbia.
This is really not even close.
Posted by guest , Apr 05, 2009 6:10PM
Hey just wanted to see what ppl thought... I have acceptence to Kellogg, London Business School and Tuck (I got a full scholarship to Tuck), and am waitlisted at Wharton, dinged at HBS. What do you guys think? Its pretty hard to pass up 100K right now when Kellogg is marginally better than Tuck (although it is in the middle of nowhere). Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Posted by guest , Apr 05, 2009 8:41PM
@233 If you did liberal arts in your undergrad and you want to shift to finance, take a financial engineering degree. There are too many MBAs and the program itself makes it difficult to take many finance courses.
@247 Don't passively wait for Wharton. Visit the admissions director and reiterate your interest in Wharton. It really, really helps.
Posted by guest , Apr 06, 2009 7:44AM
@247, check the rankings, tuck is clearly better than kellogg
Posted by guest , Apr 06, 2009 11:59AM
@246 pray for Wharton, otherwise take Tuck. you're right that those 2 are too close and $100K makes the difference. Kellogg did a great job marketing (itself, anyway) for a few years but of all the Kellogg-ers I've met none of them really had the attitude that they went to a top tier. they know better, and the hitters at the consulting and banks know better too. if Wharton comes through I would take it over the free ride to Tuck though.
Posted by guest , Apr 06, 2009 1:08PM
@250 who are "the hitters at the consulting and banks"? those hanging on to their jobs by a thread?
since these sectors won't be recruiting much for the next couple years, no difference between Tuck and Wharton. Take 100K now vs. some vague benefits in the future. The Wharton network isn't as strong as you'd think in terms of asking alums for jobs- I know because I went there.
Posted by guest , Apr 06, 2009 1:10PM
@248 - I would if I could but I am abroad right now and will be for the next few months. Im having an alum send an email on my behalf. Unfortunately, they dont take any addl info on the applications. I have a contact in the admin office and have emailed her but no word back yet.
@250 - I will prob do that but I will say when i went to Tuck I met several ppl who turned down wharton for tuck, due to fit etc. I was pretty surprised myself but thats just the way it goes I guess. Def leaning towards tuck at the moment until i hear back from $ at Kellogg. If Wharton comes through who knows what ill do. 100K is a lot right now
Posted by guest , Apr 06, 2009 9:48PM
@251 Bitter Kellogg-er alert. Based on your comment re the alum network clearly the proud owner of a wharton ding letter
Posted by guest , Apr 06, 2009 9:52PM
By the way @251 no person who went to Harvard, Wharton, Stanford would be caught dead defending Kellogg.
Posted by guest , Apr 06, 2009 11:28PM
My desk hired a first year associate out of Columbia. He is a complete moron. Seriously, what the hell is going on uptown?
Posted by guest , Apr 07, 2009 11:03AM
I know what you mean - my experience also. It happens because Columbia is something of a GMAT whore. Their admissions officer literally pees in her pants for a bump up on their GMAT. So they admit people who had no chance at the better schools because they're not well rounded and somehow need to feel like they went to an Ivy. Having said all that, I would still take Columbia over Chicago. That "Booth" thing is really weird, and Chicago still has lesser name recognition. Chicago is way cold for basically the entire school year. I have had a better experience with Chicago students. Some pretty solid people. Whereas Columbia is some swagger and sometimes not much else.
Posted by guest , Apr 07, 2009 11:17AM
93/94 is that a joke? for your sake I hope so. fuqua is like, what, battling it out with stern to gain entry to the second tier? (stern wins, in my opinion, and I loathe stern)
Posted by guest , Apr 07, 2009 11:28AM
257 Why you loathin' Stern? Did great things for my career and I find that the Stern grads I hire are the ones that invariably deliver for me: smart, practical, quick. None of this mouthing off theory like the rest of em - HBS esp take note.
Posted by guest , Apr 07, 2009 5:05PM
HBS is a joyride and complete shit for non-consultants.
Posted by guest , Apr 08, 2009 7:05PM
Just don't go. B-school is the last place you want to be during a recession. Less than half of the normal recruiters will be missing, the ones that show are going to hire less than a quarter of thier usual load. Its better to stay working (if you are working) and go when the econ improves
Posted by guest , Apr 13, 2009 5:13PM
the top 10 schools all deliver value...not just HWS.
Posted by guest , Apr 13, 2009 5:24PM
@258 You are absolutely correct. Finance at Stern is very much so top notch.
Posted by guest , Apr 13, 2009 5:38PM
@7,
@11 is dead on the money. Take a pass on the third tier.
Posted by guest , Apr 13, 2009 11:39PM
pick columbia and free up a waitlist spot in chicago for me.
Posted by guest , Oct 27, 2009 4:29AM
Columbia... Boofies are a bunch of goofies..