At last week's Citi annual investor meeting, one shareholder suggested that the bank "hire the best public relations firm in all the land," in order to put itself back on the path to success. We don't necessarily disagree (though we would add that there are other things the Big C might considering doing as well)! Apparently, though, they've yet to hire anyone for the job, given this morning's latest whoops. As you're aware, Citigroup has asked Daddy Geithner permission to pay special bonuses to many "key employees," namely those at its trading unit, Phibro, who are threatening to leave unless Vikram coughs up the dough. Employess like Andrew Hall. He runs Phibro. And, as reported last year by the Journal, he also owns this German castle.
Hall, by all accounts, seems like a cool guy who, more to the point, earned Citi a decent amount of pocket change last year. Obviously, though, that won't much matter when the masses get a hold of the castle business, which reads so much worse than, like "mansion" or "big ass house" or even "chateau." I guess the one argument Citi could make is that people who own castles are exactly the sort of prima donnas who would throw a hissy fit and say stuff like "if I walk out that door I'm never coming back!" But yeah, somehow we see this one not working out.
Citigroups Andrew Hall Has Castle, Demands Bonus [Daily Intel]
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 1:18PM
people who live in castles shouldn't throw stones. An old Scottish fable.
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 1:25PM
Just looked him up in Bloomberg... guy made 10+ bricks in 1995 (a lot in deferred comp). If he's been raking in that kind of dough for last 10-15 years, he's probably worth a fortune...assuming he's been taking some of the equity off the table along the way.
Posted by Anal_yst , Apr 29, 2009 1:35PM
Yea, the Gubment wants to tell ya how to run your company to make sure the taxpayers get paid back, unfortunately, paying key employees what they're "worth" and satiating taxpayer thirst for blood are mutually exclusive outcomes, oh well...
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 1:38PM
So what is preventing C from selling its phenomenally profitable cash-spouting Phibro unit to shore up its wounded balance sheet?
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 1:39PM
Hey, maybe if Vikram and his predecessors (mostly them!) hadn't screwed up so bad then this dude could get a bonus. For now he's lucky to have a job as there would be no Citi without massive taxpayer $$$ infusions every few months!
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 1:40PM
must.kill.golden.goose
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 1:43PM
I hear Phibro is not nearly as profitable as Count Vikula's Old Lane was...
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 1:53PM
Fuck the socialists who think you shouldn't be paid market value.
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 1:53PM
Guest@#2...
And I'm sure the world will stop turning if this clown Hall doesn't get a big taxpayer-funded,(yes, taxpayer-funded) bonus.
In the scheme of Citi's problems, Hall's relatively small contribution to Revenue/Profit was thouroughly crushed under Citi's other issues.
Throwing money at him is a total waste and makes for bad PR. Let him go; kick his ass out, even. He'll leave anyway if he gets said bonus.
Oh yes. There's the matter of the energy-price spike from last summer too. Whatever was Hall's involvement in that is unlikely to be repeated again anytime soon.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by PatrickBateman , Apr 29, 2009 2:00PM
Only a matter of time before Citi turns into the DMV. Not to say that I agree with paying this guy....
Posted by Lowly Assistant , Apr 29, 2009 2:02PM
TGFD,
Each time I read your comments, I place a Kashkari-esque index card next to me screen, reading, "The more insane the drivel, the less I'll want to bash my head through this computer screen." It's working. I've reached my zen.
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 2:03PM
Dude is a stud, but if Vik has any sense he will say auf wiedersehen, and let Hall hang his shingle elsewhere. Unfortuantely he will be to say good bye to the earnings stream that goes with him
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 2:08PM
LA@#11...
TGFD is glad to help you attain your own level of perfection.
It has been TGFD's pleasure, so a thank-you isn't really necessary.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 2:19PM
Strange... I seem to remember... that the cathedral was on the other side of the square.
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 2:33PM
Phibro representes 10% of Shitibank revenue. not sure how they can afford to let someone like that walk
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 2:33PM
TGFD - you become more annoying by the day - isnt it time to retire your senile old skeleton?
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 2:44PM
hall's unit contributed 10% of citi's revenue last year...how is that "relatively" small?
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 2:49PM
@4:
hard to sell a trading unit becasue you get crappy multiples for it- the buyer has to pay as much for the buyout as the lockups on the traders. Hall is not really replacable, so whoever you sold the unit to woudl have to pay what he's demanding anyway. There might be 2 or 3 guys anywhere in the world who could fill his shoes if he walks, and all of them would demand similar comp. Also, who would buy? Another bank that would have to ask Big Brother for permission to may him?
@TGFD/everyone who says "F him, let him walk":
Speaking strictly as a taxpayer, it's good business to pay the guy. It's one of our few chances to get any value out of the reeking mess that is citigroup. The guy makes money hand over fist, and it's not like he has no other options- he could probably raise several hundred mil for a fund inside of 3 months.
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 2:49PM
I heard the story Gutfreund paid Andy a million bucks in 1986. Story was Andy asked permission to trade his own crude oil account and John asked him how much he (Andy) thought he could make trading oil in his own account and Andy said a million bucks. Andy went back to his desk and at the end of the day John walks over to Andy and handed him a check for a million in an envelope.
That story raged around the Houston oil trading community and Andy became a God.
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 3:02PM
@19 i call total BS
but maybe Lifetime network will buy ur story
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 3:09PM
TGFD is a white trash moron that should be removed from the site immediately
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 3:14PM
Guest@#16...
TGFD says get some new material. Your dated stuff is also annoying.
Guest@#17...
I'd like to read about that. Do you have a link? Thanks.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 3:18PM
Guest@#21...
Perhaps you and #16 could console each other.
BTW, the "that" in your post should read, "who".
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 3:32PM
Guests - TGFD is looking for some quality girl-on-girl-on-guy-on-sheep images.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 3:44PM
Fill his shoes? What does it take to make leveraged bets on random walk?
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 3:46PM
Fill his shoes? What does it take to make leveraged bets on random walk?
Posted by Anal_yst , Apr 29, 2009 3:48PM
@25
Methinks you need to read-up on the whole "random walk" thing, but whatever, I don't necessarily disagree that its alot of $ to keep him (and the group) around with no future guarantee of results.
However, on the other hand, it'd be MORE retarded to take a (relatively) high-certainty revenue-generator and let it walk out the door.
Posted by blndebnker , Apr 29, 2009 3:58PM
@11 - FTW
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 4:32PM
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/04/29/citigroup-the-struggle-to-keep-phibro-happy/
10% of net income in 2007
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 5:11PM
Guest@#29...
Thanks for the link. TGFD's position remains, though. I don't see Hall repeating his oil success anytime soon.
The Guy from Delaware
Posted by Anal_yst , Apr 29, 2009 5:31PM
@ TGFD #30
And you make that statement based upon what information? Please enlighten us as to what proprietary information besides ignorant skepticism led you to that conclusion?
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 7:23PM
seriously TGFD - he's been doing it since 1990. your skepticism just suggests you're an idiot. but good for you.
Posted by guest , Apr 29, 2009 9:29PM
Maybe Hall should be running Citi...at least he's actually made some money for the piece of *hit...far better tax payer investment there then with viki.
Posted by guest , Apr 30, 2009 10:38AM
Anal_Yst@#31...
TGFD went offline shortly after my #30 post, and I didn't see your note till now.
I've said before that TGFD is no match for Anal_Yst, and I don't mind repeating it.
"Ignorant Skepticism" probably drives a lot of TGFD's comments, and perhaps I should add a disclaimer to them that reads, 'For Entertainment Purposes Only'.
Hill did do very well on is long oil contracts when oil went to $100, but I don't see that happening again soon. That's all I meant, and I could be very wrong.
Guest@#32...
TGFD's "skepticism" is a result of my frustration over the equity markets' defiance of gravity and fundimentals in their upward climb of late.
I don't think the financial crisis is over just because some people say we've seen some "green shoots". Jobless claims still well-over 600k, GDP off 6%, weakening consumer spending in March, and every state in the country with a big budget deficit. BTW, Delaware is third-highest in the nation in % terms.
Maybe the people piling-on in the market now are the idiots, but then again, I could be wrong about that too.
TGFD has been called an idiot before.
The Guy from Delaware