A few more numbers from the HoD. No word on how anyone is “feeling” about them at this time (if you’d like to get something off your chest, lay it on us):
IBD associates (highs w/o base):
1st year: high of 200, 20% stock w/ base of 110
2nd year: range of 180-260, 25% stock w/ base of 120
3rd year: high of 350, 30% stock w/ base of 160
I'd take it.
-john 'no bonus' mack
Maybe what we thought was worth 500k a year is worth 250k after all.
@2/3 do you think what we thought was worth 500k a year is worth 250k after all?
Pronounced Hoe-D.
I think there is something foreign in my pants.
these are bonus or total compensation numbers?
@7 first number is bonus, second is base. bonus + base = total comp
@7
"highs w/o base"
i.e. first year high total comp 310 = 270 cash 40 stock
Anyone else a little sick to their stomachs that some douchebag frat-boy in his late 20s is pulling down almost $300K+/year?
Maybe I'm missing something (besides an Ivy League degree…)
Heard UBS IBD folks got screwed again this year
@10 no
@10 – uh oh, someone's gonna tell you to go back to huffington post, yahoo finance, or call you a liberal, populist or socialist. Cue the predictable frat-boy esque entitled response.
-former frat boy
a little off topic, but its something i've been curious about for a while.
what exactly does cody willard stand for? i follow him on twitter (bad idea, i know), and all he seems to do is bitch and complain about lawmakers on both sides of the aisle rather than offering up ideas that he'd implement. its rather obnoxious and really highlights his severely diminished intellectual capacity. any thoughts here?
thanks in advance
Not really, sick to my stomach. In your late 20's ~150k (post-taxes) isn't an obscene amount. Especially if you just got out of B=school and have a ton of loans to pay back.
@10: Why would you care? Any opinions on professional athletes' or hollywood actors' comp?
Any ideas on associate stub?
@15 and esp if you're living in new york city.
"Anyone else a little sick to their stomachs that some douchebag frat-boy in his late 20s is pulling down almost $300K+/year? "
nope, just you.
@19:
And working 80 hour weeks, with no union to cover your ass if you fuck up.
@18 beat me to it
@16 – stupid analogy. No one bailed out Hollywood or the Yankees. There are more bankers in JPM than actors and/or athletes making over $30,000 a year in the entire country (ever heard of extras or minor leaguers?. Come up with something original.
@14 Cody Willard stands for Rock-n-Roll! And if you wanna rock, you gotta break the rules. You gotta get mad at the man. And the man is everywhere:
in the White House, down the hall, ruining the ozone, he's burning down the Amazon, and he kidnapped Shamu and put her in a chlorine tank.
I went to Cornell.
@20: No, not a stupid analogy at all.
These guys pay their taxes, do nothing at all illegal, and the "bailout" money that was received was repaid by most of the firms.
Besides, most of the $300K worker bees who wander around Wall Street had little or nothing to do with their firms' risk management.
25 = david einhorn
Are these numbers for bankers or S&T?…any word on S&T numbers? Sounds high for S&T (well unless you're running your own book and killing it, then comp is theoretically uncapped).
@10 if you dont like what is going on then simply dont engage in the financial services these institutions offer.
Keep a minimal amount of cash at a local credit to cover living expenses on a month to month basis and the rest of your money in Treasuries.
Dont use debt to purchase cars, homes, education ect. Dont save for retirement in a 401(k); if you do have a pension take it as a lump sum and buy more Treasuries.
Your call champ.
@28
"IBD associates"
If you want to buy stock of individual companies call the Transfer Agent for said company and request share certificates to be mailed to you and keep them in a fire proof safe in your house or a deposit box and a credit union
-29
@28 your attempt to sound informed resulted in a massive fail when your inability to read ("IBD Associates") reared it's ugly head. also, yes, there is word on S&T numbers: http://dealbreaker.com/2010/01/bonus-watch-10-jpm…
The whole bonus ruckus is amusing. It's just a PR thing. If the recipients, if the most highly compensated, were to explain to the enraged populists all that they did to earn the comp, I think all but the most reasonable people would be satisfied that it was money well-earned. So why is the PR so bad? Aren't there any good looking women out there who can explain this for a living?
@10 LOLz @ "late 20s"
-Non Ivy League degree
I deserve good things. I am entitled to my share of happiness. I refuse to beat myself up. I am fun to be with. Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggonit, people like me!
Stuart Smalley
JPM employee
@15,18,29 – I recently have my MBA from a reputable non Ivy b-school and I'm pulling down a THIRD of that in CPG Brand Mgt in my mid-late 20s, and I think I'm doing okay for myself and I live in the city. I do work 55-60 hrs a week and have to utilize most skills they do.
True I chose not to go down the Financial path, but I still think there are great opportunities. I guess no one really "gets it" unless they are the ones getting those sweet bonuses. I know you guys make my life better by doing…..whatever.
@33 let's not be a douche here…S&T falls under the umbrella of the IB, as I used to work there. Sorry I missed the "D", ass.
@20, 80 hour week huh?
5 hrs = finding someone to do the statistical work that u cheated on in b school
10 hrs = trying to figure out the chart functions in excel
15 hrs = telling everyone how many hrs u work
30 hrs = reading the reviews for korean massage parlors that recently changed names
5 hrs = name dropping the college that u went to
10 hrs = reading sports scores
5 hrs = wondering if the secretary that u jerled off to last night was worth it, or shud u have gone with the intern from South America
@37 you disgust me
-Ivy MBA secretly fucking @37's gf
@38/28 the numbers are for bankers.
@39 how does one "jerle off"? it sounds kinky.
@37 how are you living in NYC on ~50k post MBA? I'm smelling something fishy here…. do you live with your parents?
@39 "trying to figure out the chart functions in excel"
fuck you very much, thanks. we are excel masters.
@41, it's more sensy than kinky
-39
@39:
Look, if you didn't want to work for the help desk you should have gotten an MBA, a CFA, or another degree and then done it yourself, if you can.
Why the hell do you care what people earn? As NS correctly pointed out, if you don't like Wall Street, find a credit union to finance your house and your Prius, and put your savings with them. And buy Gold coins from the Treasury. Your choice…
(Your last point was a good one, but it is hardly confined to Wall Street workers.)
@15, you're thinking too much man. You're supposed to just get angry.
I went to Washington and Lee.
@39 South American intern ftw
What do associates actually get paid for? I thought Analysts do all the work and Associates just proofread stuff.
@49 it's the VPs that do no work, no associates.
@49 It might be seen as cruel to smack an analyst in front of a client. Just sayin'.
always amusing to watch comments coming in from folks that know their days of being overpaid relative to the value they provide to the economy are numbered.
@10, I'm a former NY-based IBD associate that left the industry and went to work for a client company. Whist in NY, I was chained to a desk or a conference room all of my waking hours, had no life, was absolutely miserable (I also hate cold weather)–though I made roughly the amounts stated above (which is a lot less after tax and and NYC COL)
Now I work in a much warmer climate about half the hours, make half the money and am very happy doing it.
So do I think these frat boys are making too much? Well, for me, it wasn't enough money, so no.
53 = voice of reason
(thinking about south american intern)
fap fap fap fap fap fap
@ NS/29
Usually a great fan of your work, but that argument is specious.
It's like a farmer's cooperative saying, "well if you don't like the fact we pay ourselves >$250k and offer substandard produce at inflated prices, then go on a fast. No one's forcing you to eat." (Maybe OPEC would be a better analogy.)
Just because banker's provide an important service in today's world, and are organized enough to make a decent paycheck for themselves does not mean they should pay themselves outrageously. Specially at a time when many Americans are living out of their cars as a result of something that bankers had some role to play in (albeit partial.)
@53 is correct-
As I said earlier, and I hope you all were listening, escaping Manhattan for the fresh air and good living is wonderful. Bonuses are a carrot, you are the donkeys.
- not Ralph Waldo Emerson, but a terrific linguist
@52 if they save enough to buy a truck the frat boys could always quit and run for senate in a dumb as bricks northeastern state.
does anyone have the first year Anal_yst numbers?
@ 58 = liberal fag
@56 agreed on the fact that I might have gone a tad overboard on my rant. I'll stick to the humor.
@10 – I work in corporate finance, and chose not to pursue IB opportunities. But my wife did, and went through what @53 described: 90 hour work weeks, no sleep, getting called into the office at 2 AM. So yes, a lot of the folks who work in IB deserve the money their getting. They're doing a job that no 50 year old punk ass, Obama-voting, union guy could do, or would want to do. Anyone can put doors on a car. Few can master the art of being a value creator, 24/7/375.
For Yael- What are first year Blogger numbers? Just curious.
Greg (from Jon's computer)
@62 = Dick Fuld
Associates are the ones who have to yell at the pitchbook monkeys
@58 = "Marsha" Coakley.
62,
Examine your integers.
http://www.physics.sfasu.edu/markworth/notes/Skym…
@62 – hahaha, teriffic trolling. Well played, sir.
hey.
@42 – I make a third of 300k is 100k post MBA, I was talking about total comp
@62 obvious troll is obvious
@37 – they make your life better by buying the products your company produces, therefore providing you with a job. The bankers will now accept your apology and your thanks for keeping you employed.
@37. And make my life better…
Typical self-entitled loser that attended a third-tier public university and cannot figure out why bankers are compensated that way.
The world owes you nothing. Douchebag.
@72-74 Repetition. Examine youre mouse button
Babar makes 3 sticks a year
I take it up the ass 24/7/52/365. And twice on Sundays. Give me a fucking break.
@76, huh?
All who enjoy fluffing ones own ego… I have been in the IB world and am now on the S&T side(Commodity Fixed price, mostly options). I have an MBA and an MS in Quant Finance. First off, please stop bragging about your MBA. All of you who have one know the whole program was a joke. That is unless you attended Devry for undergrad.
Secondly the whole value add thing is bs. Anyone who is really creating "value" is not generating the real cash. The cash is found in Interest Rate Arbitrage and Financial Engineering…. Restructuring Risk, packaging it, and selling it for more than your entry price.
Oh… wait a stock offering. Huge value add. Wait a minute. I am remembering Corp Fin 101… additional stock adds no real value.
wait debt offering… HUGE MONEY. MY daily VAR is more than what you made last year.
I have no problem with bonuses. but I do have a problem with a bunch 28-32 year olds patting themselves on the back who have added only 20% to the bottom line. Get over yourselves.
FROM THE REAL REVENUE CENTER (S&T)
NS. Glad you retracted. Have much respect for your posts.
@10: the frat boys putting in solid hrs with tangible value adds bother you, but Kesha can sing an inane song about brushing her teeth with whiskey, pull down 10x that, and you let it slide?
I'd trade 10 3rd yrs for a pop singer any time.
@79: you're my hero.
@79 = The derivatives guy that destroyed the economy
@79: you so big.
79 is right. The bonus would be half as big for these chumps if it wasn't for S&T. Nothing the bank does adds any "value." i have an MBA and work at a hedge fund so i know the basic deal. 2009 was all fixed income trading thanks to all the new debt issuance. if you work at a bank and want to defend yourself then simply point to the fact that profit was generated and you're entitled to a part of it. but spare me bullshit like i work 90 hours a week, i have an MBA loan, i create value, etc. nobody said you will get paid by the hour. nobody gives a shit you have loans. and you most certainly dont create any value.
@80 fuck you. that's a fantastic song.
@79 why did you get your MBA to work at a hedge fund?
YES, derivatives guys totally destroyed the economy. All 200 of them. Shame on you.
Give me a break.
@79. I don't need a daily VaR. I only have to drop my pants. Ask your mom/sister.
This goes out to half of you:
Sealclap.Sealclap.Sealclap.
I dont have bedbugs kenneth, I went to Princeton.
I went to NC-squared suckas
When Gobama nationalizes student loans and healthcare, anyone have an idea what my nut'll be?
Dialin for donuts in Denville.
@20 How do you figure the Yankees didn't get a taxpayer bailout?
Taxpayer funding for the new Yankees' stadium consists of $1.2 billion in tax-exempt bonds and $136 million in taxable bonds; the Mets got $697 million in tax-free bonds.
Some have argued that the taxpayers' tab for Yankee Stadium will eventually total $4 billion.
@ 79 ='s:
a) snookie
b) j-woww
c) the situation
d) the p#ssy ron-ron knocked out w/ one punch.
Pls discuss.
@86 that was before I knew any better.
Honestly… who really got a lot out of their MBA program. I pose this point to help those who are reading and considering getting one.
IMHO: continue on as an analyst and while you are waiting for your VP or MD to get you the redline of the oh so great prospectus, study for your CFA. Every CFA I know can run circles around your average MBA. Now, if you are looking at University of Chicago, Berkeley or Carnegie Mellon… (more technical programs, and yes I did not mention HBS for a reason, NOT THAT GREAT OF A PROGRAM… sorry) I would consider the cost… CFA around 5K (work will pay for it)… MBA 60 – 80K.
Here is some value add for the younger readers
@32
don't act all high and mighty because you got a remedial math degree ("business" or "finance") from that shit school you call a university. Sure Cornell sucks (maybe not all those in engineering) and is in the middle of cow country, but getting in as a legacy to a safety school really isn't any better. Go to one of the schools in cambridge and then you can talk.
Loser.
- math major from a school in Cambridge (you may have heard of it!)
@96 Bunker Hill Community College?
-guy who thinks bragging about where they went to undergrad is fucking pathetic.
@95 I asked the question @86 (and am probably the same age as you). Out of college I worked at a bank for a few years and have been working at an hf for the past ten. Just asking because most of the guys I work with do not have mbas and (obviously) do not need them. some have CFAs but even those three little letter are unnecessary.
CFAs can interpolate better than a MBA. MBAs can delegate down the responsibility to the CFAs.
Sorry. (full disclosure, have both)
omg, @100!
@98 To a certain extent I agree with you, but look at if from an IB's eyes (corp finance, capital markets, the ever so sexy M&A). A CFA is almost a one stop shop. It will cover almost everything you need to know.
$300K Bonus – 70% Cash / 30% Equity
>$400K Bonus – 65% Cash / 35% Equity
2nd year associate bonus – $150K – $260K / Base to $120K
3rd year associate bonus – $180K – $350K / Base to $160K
1vp bonus – $425K range / Base to $180K
CONFIRMED
@102 thanks for reprinting the numbers posted above.
@103 – don't be a smart ass – i added 1VP to the mix – kiss off.
97 FTW
…
@95 Do you think there's a good ROI on a CFA program such as this? http://www.cfa.org/mentor/index.html
@39 We really work hard for our clients so that they can get their deals done. An average of 80 hours hides a lot of all nighter doing stuff for high risk, high stakes stuff for our clients. We take a lot of pain off their backs.
Perhaps you'd want to do that in your "normal" job? I dont think so.
So do I think we make too much money? Nope, I don't. We make what we have earned.
Question are these stub numbers?
For example is a first year associate, someone who started in July of 2009 and then is getting a bonus now?
Are they really getting 200k?? Or is that someone a year out?
@79, not that I don't generally agree with you, but "Oh… wait a stock offering. Huge value add. Wait a minute. I am remembering Corp Fin 101… additional stock adds no real value. "
isn't this the same as:
"packaging it, and selling it for more than your entry price" on the FI side?
@110: Ugh… ignorance! Stock offering = capital => Capital = investment => investment = value add!
Remove the capital, you won't get to the value add. (Sorry for the other folks, I had to stoop down to a "dumb" level to explain)
No wonder you didn't make it into investment banking (judging from your disgust at the industry), perhaps you should go back to school.
@111, "more than your 'entry price'" = capital was invested => investment = investment => value add
Remove the capital, you won't get to the value add. (Sorry for the other folks, I had to stoop down to a "dumb" level to explain)
It's possible I've misunderstood what you wrote in your rather unusual prose.
/guy who said he largely agrees with you in his first post @110 and does not disdain the industry
//guy who does not miss the "S&T vs. IBD" debates of two years ago any more than the "CFA vs. MBA" debates of last fall
@111 – I said Value not Capital…. so why do stock prices fall after an offering? Ohhh I don't know maybe dilution. There is this other thing called a dividend distribution too, but we don't have to worry about that in the IB world.
I guess by your standards everyone should split stocks and the treasury should print print print more money because that generates "VALUE".
Perhaps you should go back to school, or maybe you finish up those books.
@101 sure, from an IB's eyes, but I'm talking about working at a hedge fund, where I don't think it'll do much for you re either getting hired.
Maybe what we thought was worth 500k a year is worth 250k after all.
@113, is English your first language?
@115 Really!
Add the word, "should" to the last sentence.
I am glad you are quick to pick up on grammatical errors. It is a good skill to have when proofing books.
By the way, take a towncar out to Greenwich and drop them off when you are done. Your MD needs them before his flight in the morning.
@16 – stupid analogy. No one bailed out Hollywood or the Yankees. There are more bankers in JPM than actors and/or athletes making over $30,000 a year in the entire country (ever heard of extras or minor leaguers?. Come up with something original.
This comment thread is magnificent. Please continue.
@37 – they make your life better by buying the products your company produces, therefore providing you with a job. The bankers will now accept your apology and your thanks for keeping you employed.
@109 – these are full year numbers. If you got a stub, you'd receive half of the figures above.
Anecdotally, I've heard similar levels for JPM S&T, but 1st year associate high of 230, 25% stock with base of 110.
@118- assuming research associate numbers are same as S&T… Does that sound right?
@118- assuming research associate numbers are same as S&T… Does that sound right?
@118- assuming research associate numbers are same as S&T… Does that sound right?
2nd year research associate bonus – $125K/Base to $120K
what's about analysts 3rd in IB?
@79 – no value add from a stock offering and huge value add from financial engineering? really? better go get your corp fin 101 again buddy and might also have to retake mba / cfa. seems like you learned all the technical skills that a monkey can do but didn't really get it. just riddle me this – what do you think drove more value over the past century – innovation (vc/tech/ipo) or financial engineering?
btw, i have an mba and a cfa. two wildly different animals. i view them as complimentary, not exclusive, just fyi.
@122 Are you saying that 2nd year associates in ER made 120K in bonus ? That's close to 220K total comp. Sounds pretty high for ER in this market. Can someone please confirm the ER numbers ???
penn>cornell
@122 Are you saying that 2nd year associates in ER made 120K in bonus ? That’s close to 220K total comp. Sounds pretty high for ER in this market. Can someone please confirm the ER numbers ???
@125 FI, not ER
@124 Fail.
You have a CFA and MBA but still can't spell "complementary" correctly.
Unless you mean that your studies were free or they attract compliments from others?
Better go and study English 101 again buddy!
@128
So around 220K for FI Research . Wow. i thought research numbers were lower than 200K
What is research associate's total comp at a mid-level firm, like a Jefferies or an Oppenheimer
@131 more than you'll ever see.
I bet most of you clowns can barely get through Qs and Ks, and probably have a tough time with DCF models.
I left that world a while ago. Now at a strategic long/short equity Fund, trading your life savings away you overly liberal dickheads
@131 That really answers my question you jock sniffing loser that won't have a job 6 months from now. At "strategic" long/short equity fund. Wow, i talk to monkeys like you everyday and you don't know your head from your ass. Trading yourself out of business like all the others. Have wandering the streets next year explaining to people that you swear you understand DCF models and can read a K and Q in the most efficient manner when you are interviewing for some god awful job.
@129 – OWNED
you were owned in that post buddy, the fact that someone didn't "turn" his comment 10 times and had a slip up doesn't change that fact.
@132 sorry, a shit-ton of people on this site work at hf's, probably more prestigious than whatever 25mm in aum "shop" you sort the mail for.
@134 – you are a massive DOUCHE!
Was not owned at all.
VC and IPO = providing companies access to equity capital. Innovation? Not likely.
@108 "high risk/high stakes" …give me a break. Compare your "high stakes" DCF or comp sheet to the kid in Iraq, the CIA operative in Pakistan, or the brain/heart surgeon who is scrubbing into the OR every morning at 5AM. Get real and realize A) your overpaid and B) an Indian/Chinese college grad could do probably do your job for about $20/hr. (and I'm in IBD, so need to say I don't understand the game).
@134 – you are a massive DOUCHE!
Was not owned at all.
VC and IPO = providing companies access to equity capital. Innovation? Not likely.
@136 (i assume you are @79 too) – you are not very smart, are you? why don't you go google (do you think google is innovative btw? where did they get their capital to continue to innovate?) something on the role of markets in distributing capital and ENABLING innovation. while at it, why don't you also read up a bit on why most innovation occurs where the financial markets are best developed. also please do a search within the documents you read on the things you do at your job and report back on how you ENABLE innovation.
unfortunately, apparently the labor markets are far from efficient if someone like you has a job. now go back to doing your magic and earning your big bonus aka financial waste in this case.
@139 – Fail again. You've changed tack, but unfortunately still no wind in your sails.