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Live Lloyd

*5:33 – LB: “I don’t think our clients care nor should they care” about whether Goldman is short something. “You could have the biggest mutual fund in the world selling stock and you wouldn’t know it

Carl: “This is a shitty deal, this is crap, what you think about that.”

LB: “We are selling securities all the time that we don’t like” but people just want to buy things.

*5:41 – LB and Carl Levin go back and forth and back and forth on what being a market maker is and whether anyone care if Goldman is short something it was selling to someone else.

Carl: You’re selling, then shorting. LB: We’re buying and selling all the time.

Carl: “I wouldn’t trust you if you came to me trying to sell something.”

LB: The buyer doesn’t care. They don’t give a crap that we’re betting against this stuff.

*5:46 – John McCain pops in despite the fact he’s been gone the entire day. Asks Lloyd why he thinks Goldman needed the TARP money.

LB – “We were brought in” and had no choice but to take the gov’t money.

McCain – Brings up shorting the residential mortgage market. LB says they made $500 million in revenue in 2007, but “did not make big money.” McCain slips up and says “you took Pork, I mean TARP money.”

*5:52 – Has Goldman done anything, McCain asks, to help community banks and homeowners pay their bills? LB: “We delivered $1 billion of the firm’s money to philanthropy” with $500 million to help small businesses. “Are any of these things enough? Not for the suffering existing in the world, but we are trying to do our part.”

*5:56 – McCain is just taking up time. He asks Lloyd what a synthetic CDO is. (John, we just heard 8 hours of testimony on that)

*McCain can’t pronounce Abacus. Lloyd corrects him and says he doesn’t believe there needs to be any disclosure on who is on the short side of the Abacus. “Senator this is not the subject of the legal proceeding” McCain: “A lot of these things are complicated Mr. Blankfein and may of them are hurting very badly and they believe your handling of the mortgage and housing was a direct contributor to the meltdown.” So There.

*6:04 – LB: Responding to a question of whether they need clients, Lloyd says “clients used to ask you for advice and then go another institution and ask for financing” Now, you not only have to give them advice, you have to have the balance sheet to help them accomplish their objectives.

*6:08 – The senators still can’t seem to figure out when Goldman was short and when it was long on CDOs. Kaufman is going over the whole timeline again and Lloyd sticks to the playbook “We reduced our risk.”

Kaufman: “Don’t you think there’s an appearance of a conflict here?” LB: “I don’t know.”

Uh oh, protestors are getting uppity. They’re yelling and most likely being escorted out.

*6:15 – LB: “We didn’t behave like we knew” what was going to happen in the mortgage market and “our positions reflect that because had we known we would have been massively short the market.” Kaufman: At what point did you decide the market was crappy. LB: “I don;t know that the decision was made to leave that business.” (It was just to reduce risk, right Lloyd?)

Kaufman – People on Wall Street are really smart. They knew the housing market was a bad deal. LB: “We’re not that smart.”

*6:22 – Kaufman gets the last word. “What really bothers people the most is not the bailouts” but the incredible compensation to people who made “horrible decisions.” “The idea that Wall Street came out just fine, thank you.”

*6:25 – Coburn admits Congress was the one who screwed up in not regulating mortgages asks Lloyd if he’s concerned about anything he’s heard at the hearing today. LB says, while he’s in the business of worrying, he seems not concerned about the actions of the employees on the prior panels.

Lloyd hints at possibly shedding Goldman’s bank holding company status.

On the financial bill – “I’m generally supportive of it, although there’s some details I’m less comfortable with.” He mentions Obama’s speech and how he agrees with the president that regulation will help bring trust back to the markets.

*6:40 – LB: “The financial system will be safer if banks are required to have more capital.” “It’s important for Goldman Sachs that we take away the notion that we’re too big to fail. A lot of the negativity associated with us is because of the perception that we are too big to fail and we have to get rid of that.”

*6:48 – Coburn asks LB why Goldman released Fab’s personal email. “Why would you do that to your employee, Coburn said.”Somebody made a personal decision that he’s going to be the whipping boy.” LB said the firm wanted to get it all out and said “I don’t think we added to those emails.” (Basically danced around the question.)

Getting close to 7pm – Carl Levin is getting hungry.

*6:56 – “In hindsight, I wish we had done more. At the time, we believed we were doing appropriate due diligence and disclosure.”

Anyone who wants to read the “Shitty deal” emails can do so here.

*7:00 – When Lloyd says “Cats and dogs,” he means old stuff they need to get off their books.

*7:05 – McCaskill doesn’t seem to understand the futures market. “You guys are securitizing this stuff and tranching it.” LB goes back to his days as an oil trader to make the point that there are a lot of financial speculators out there.

*7:09 – LB on Abacus: “I know there is an inherent distaste for the short side some of things. But ACA, the selection agent, was the biggest buyer of the deal. They bought $900 million of it.” On rating agencies: “They were inaccurate. I think they never anticipated the market could fall as much as it did.”

*7:15 – More LB on Abacus: “I think our person who testified in the first panel, said the selection agent knew about [Paulson] going short.” Whether that information should have been disclosed, Lloyd says “I don’t know, there’s no duty on us to disclose the existence of a short.” The question is whether Paulson had undo influence on selecting the assets in the CDO, Lloyd said. He said more than half the securities suggested by Paulson were thrown out by the selection agent.

*7:30 – Jon Tester of Montana asks LB if Goldman is too big to fail. LB says, “I don’t believe so.” Tester thinks he and Lloyd are speaking different languages. “It seems to me, that it’s not like selling a broken horse,” Tester said, although he said it seemed to him that there was a failure to disclose relevant things to the parties in the transaction. “It sounds like a scam.”

*7:41 – “There are parts of the business where you are a money manager and there are other parts where you are giving the client something they want” and they understand that you might be taking the other side of the trade.

*7:55 – LB and Carl Levin get into a round and round about why Goldman took money from AIG instead of going to a private insurance contract. Asked if he was troubled by the fact that Goldman got taxpayer money. LB said he was.

*7:58 – Levin ends the hearing with some declarations: He raises the idea thank banker should not offer their clients investments they don’t themselves believe in. “You don’t see that and it troubles me that you don’t see that. Goldman Sachs has turned itself into its own client. You took stuff from your own inventory that you didn’t believe in and sold it, then you bet against it.”

*8:09 – 55B, man, 55B

134 comments
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134 Responses to “Live Lloyd”

  1. WSJevons says:

    Did you SEE THAT STINKEYE!! That was awsome!

  2. I says:

    I will buy whatever Llyod tells me to. He’s so dreamy

  3. Anonymous says:

    Lloyds being killed

  4. Guest says:

    Lloyd isn’t having a great showing today.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Leading a lamb to the slaughter …

  6. anonymous says:

    Carl Levin just destroyed Blankfein. Up until this point, I thought Goldman was doing a good job of giving nothing away and holding everything important to its chest. No longer.

  7. Anonymous says:

    What in the universe is McCain talking about?

  8. Anonymous says:

    McCain is killing the guy. He’s spending too much time trying to figure out where the questioning is going …

  9. GD no one gives a piss about community banks John, nor do they want to live in Arizona. This is like Maxine and her credit card crusade.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Carl: “I wouldn’t trust you if you came to me trying to sell something.”

    LB: I wouldn’t care if you trusted me as long as you bought from me and you would buy from me because you wouldn’t know it was me you were buying from and just so you know, everything that is being sold anywhere at anytime is being sold by me – I am not a Market Maker, I AM THE MARKET. AH ha! AH ha! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    Carl: I’ll take ten crap pools, please.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Is Lloyd trying to grow a stache? Or did he forget the Norelco and hasn’t shaved since 3 am?

  12. CrankyPants says:

    Funny… 500 million is not big money when make it in the CDO market, but, when you give it away… It is a major effort in philanthropy.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Blankfein’s out and Viniar’s in. Blankfein is acting like his job is on the line and it is.

  14. Abbbahhhcus, you dolt?

  15. Anonymous says:

    are you ever going to report on anything aside from goldman again?

  16. deeznutz says:

    Its all over for GS.

    LD is leaning AWWLLLL over “market maker” status BUT in the ABACUS deal GS was a broker- pure and simple. And, they failed a basic 10b-5 duty. They omitted “material info” that Paulson picked the securities and he was shorting.

    Earlier when Fab was asked, did you inform IKB that Paulson was short and he said “No”. That was game, set, match.

    GS, welcome to the dawn of Stifel, Piper and Schwab. Without FICC GS is just another fucking used car salesman, long term greedy my ass. HAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA

    If you really want know just ask.

    deeznutz

  17. The only advantage on the Senators’ side is that their questions are so beyond the left field fence that they catch Lloyd off guard. LB looking tan btw. I bet he made Fab apply tanning cream by hand at the Willard last night.

  18. guest says:

    wow mccain should check himself into a retirement home.

  19. Anonymous says:

    good god McCain completely embarrased himself

  20. girlguest says:

    who’s the delicious guy over lloyd’s right shoulder??! bess, helP!

  21. deeznutz says:

    Yeah, just think @19, but for the grace of God, he and Palin as veep would have gone this great country.

    GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    DDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNN

    If you really want to know just ask.

    deeznutz

  22. Anonymous says:

    CL: “I wouldn’t trust you if you came to me trying to sell something.”
    LB: “You don’t have the money to buy anything I’m selling, you dimwit.”

  23. Dopes says:

    Senators are asking the wrong questions.

    ASK WHY THE PROP TRADING AND CLIENT
    TRADING DESKS ARE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER and HAVE THE SAME MANAGER!!!!

    http://www.businessinsider.com/goldmans-ny-cdo-prop-trading-desk-is-right-next-to-its-client-trading-desk-and-both-share-the-same-director-2010-3

  24. PermaGuest says:

    Oh look, Lemony Snicket again.

  25. Anonymous says:

    Lloyd is doing well against this bunch of pharisees.

  26. guest says:

    Capital “L” small “l” small “o” small “y” small “d.”

  27. Anonymous says:

    like how McCain tried to help the thrifts / S&Ls in Arizona in late 80’s early 90’s…

  28. Anonymous says:

    Now this is way too funny. Gasparino finally makes it to Broadway. Check out the link. American Idiot:Stomping Onto Broadway With a Punk Temper Tantrum
    http://theater.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/theater/reviews/21idiot.html?src=me&ref=theater

  29. Anonymous says:

    Looks like Gilbert Gottfried

  30. Anonymous says:

    L.B.: Senator, can we discuss the SEC’s errant beating-off to porn over the last few years during the crisis
    C.L.: Check this out, Coburn, the money shot! Oh, sorry, yes, Mr. Blankfein, as you were saying….

  31. Anonymous says:

    For an Okie, Coburn knows his shit – he’s giving it good to LB.

  32. Anonymous says:

    @23 Get elected as a Senator first.

  33. Anonymous says:

    Ask Coburn about his Medicaid fraud. He’s a moron.

  34. Anonymous says:

    Zach, nothing personal, but you’re just not a very good live blogger. Has Bess finished her martini yet?

  35. Anonymous says:

    if most of the questions besides the SEC case relate to the subprime in general and — importantly — the committee is evidently looking to get the best information possible for reform consideration, W(hy)TF is lloyd the only ceo testifying?

  36. PissedOffMarine says:

    Sen. Carl Levin (D – Michigan) absolute moron, dumber than a box of rocks, has no idea or doesn’t care how financial markets work.

    Sen. John Ensign (R – Nevada ) harped on “ethics” however: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31652.html

    Sen. Mark Pryor (D – Arkansas) this guy was not that annoying but kind of blank, as in

    Sen. Tom Coburn (R – Oklahoma) The only senator so far that seems to have any understanding of how the finical markets work.

    Sen. Claire McCaskill (D – Missouri) fairly intelligent but off base by using sports betting analogies.

    Lloyd Blankfein is a great American!

  37. Anonymous says:

    Deeznuts, do the world a favor and log off your campus library / coffee shop wifi, tie up those converse all stars, pull those nut huggers skinny jeans tight and suck on the business end of a shotgun. I’m long firearm and ammunition companies so I’m not selling you something I don’t fully believe in.

    -Evil Banker

    Dawn of Piper, Steifel, Schwab and GS? Really?

  38. Anonymous says:

    If you understand the subject matter, I don’t think Lloyd came off too badly. Harried, but not unsympathetic. And trying very hard as the lawyers have counseled him not to give Levin the sound bite. If you don’t understand it, you see a guy hemming and hawing while the big, bad Senator keeps asking, “now what about this crap you’re selling?”

    Most of the Senators, though, I can’t say I think more highly of them after this exhibition. McCain, the sad demise of a pretty good American, and he is ruining his reputation in his reelection bid. Second the terror of him as Prez. How do you think Palin feels now? She would be months away from becoming Commander-in-Chief. Ka-rist!

  39. Anonymous says:

    Sen. Carl Levin (D – Michigan) absolute moron, dumber than a box of rocks, has no idea or doesn’t care how financial markets work.

    Sen. John Ensign (R – Nevada ) harped on “ethics” however: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31652.html

    Sen. Mark Pryor (D – Arkansas) this guy was not that annoying but kind of blank, as in if he had a though bubble next to him it would be blank.

    Sen. Tom Coburn (R – Oklahoma) The only senator so far that seems to have any understanding of how the finical markets work.

    Sen. Claire McCaskill (D – Missouri) fairly intelligent but off base by using sports betting analogies.

    Sen. John McCain (R – Arizona) should have stayed home he seemed confused.

    Lloyd Blankfein is a great American!

  40. guest says:

    time for a new lloyd picture. hasn’t been funny for a long time.

  41. Anonymous says:

    In overlawyering and coaching the first panel, it only pissed Levin off (his slow, choppy start). His frustration bubbled over to the Blankfein panel. Wowsa. Great lawyerly advice gang!

    “uh market making, uh”

  42. Anonymous says:

    viniar is the smoothest motherfucker alive, blankfein isn’t doing too well

  43. guest says:

    wow that guy is too big to fail

  44. Anonymous says:

    NEVER thought I’d say this but I feel sympathy for Goldman. The lack of preparation by the Senators is just shocking. One day the GS guys will look back on this bizzare day and go WTF was I doing there and how did I get caught up in that?

  45. Anonymous says:

    These Senators are morons

  46. Anonymous says:

    I can’t turn away…

  47. Anonymous says:

    YOU GOT TAXPAYER MONEY!

    Because The Government decided not to let AIG default.

    WHY DID YOU TAKE TAXPAYER MONEY!?

    Seriously?

  48. Carl Levin's Mole says:

    “Mr. Levin, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

  49. Anonymous says:

    I seriously need to study for the CFA. This thing is killing me…MORE CHARTS!!!

  50. Carl Levin's Mole says:

    Carl Levin’s Charts has just cost me 1 month of studying for the CFA. I think I would have been safer watching Jersey Shore.

  51. Anonymous says:

    Is this Levin’s grand finale? His ace up his sleeve? Is this what he’s been saving all day?

  52. Timberwolfe says:

    Levin tried to come to play

  53. Anonymous says:

    @50 the senators would be safer if we all watched Jersey shore as we would never vote for any of the ever again.

  54. Anonymous says:

    Senator Penguin is befuddled by all of this- don’t confuse him with the facts or he will take out more charts his assistant Moneypenny created on her mimeograph machine. Look at all of those charts these people don’t even know what a computer is and they are making laws for us OMG!

  55. Anonymous says:

    Who put together these binders?

  56. Timberwolfe says:

    they should have just used ipads with adobe reader……oh wait

  57. Anonymous says:

    Pigfuckers.

  58. Anonymous says:

    @23 Hahaha, like these idiots will ever get close to asking the right questions.

  59. anonymous says:

    Every time I think Levin is about to get to a point, he quickly goes off to another pointless tangent. Get that old codger outta there.

  60. Anonymous says:

    Does $3B sound like a lot of money to you? Does it?

  61. Senator Carl Levin (D) Michigan says:

    Bess, you are my daughter and I demand you continue liveblogging into the night

  62. Anonymous says:

    LB: “Senator, let me explain to you again how financial markets work.”

  63. Anonymous says:

    Cramer is right on the money. These Senators think Goldman sells cars.

  64. Anonymous says:

    what about the junk bond market…….I guess no one can sell greek debt

  65. Anonymous says:

    if i’m LB, I go out and buy a community bank tomorrow and immediately shut it down just to show that I can

  66. Fancy Dan says:

    Do people realize that Carl Levin went to Harvard Law School? Boy have standards risen in the Ivy League in the last 40 years…..

  67. Anonymous says:

    @66 I think we can attribute this to the fact that Carl Levin is closing in on his 200th birthday. He’s clearly gone senile, and looks like death warmed over.

  68. Anonymous says:

    Its the other way around

    From Wikipedia

    Levin was born in Detroit to Jewish parents Bess Levinson

  69. Anonymous says:

    love the smug grin on lloyds face while responding to his obviously uneducated questions and debating semantics

  70. Anonymous says:

    @68 That is friggin’ hilarious.

  71. Anonymous says:

    Most amazing to me is that Dealbreaker IT didn’t explode, not even once.

  72. Mandingo says:

    Where is Jamie Dimon while all this is going on?

    Sly bastard.

  73. Sweetheart92 says:

    @20…Guy over Lloyd’s shoulder…he had his way with me on Nantucket last summer…

  74. Guest says:

    “I thought it was the royal We” = Lloyd’s final moment.

  75. Anonymous says:

    From the GS emails:

    “I bet all the dads at camp are talking about this.”

    -Lloyd

  76. Anonymous says:

    Dear Senator Levin, you are a mockery of the United States Government, a complete and utter waste of taxpayer time and money. You should be fired in short order. You, nor your staff understand structured products let alone the intricacies of acting as market maker in this product. I do not work for Goldman Sachs, nor did I create or sell CDO’s. Yet as a taxpayer and an investment banker, you have made a complete fool of yourself and the office you hold. You should be ashamed of yourself and the way you and your team presented yourselves today. I am extremely disappointed in your work, and I speak on behalf of educated Americans everywhere. Leading an unfounded inquisition into one of the last great service industries in America will be your career death sentence.

  77. Finnegan says:

    One always wonder how much the senators really know and don’t know. I suspect that they usually try to play to the cameras or audience regardless of topic. And, they will try to take any given issue and spin it down into an easy construction that most benefits their own political goals. They probably know that the average American is really clueless about the financial markets; clueless about the varying functions, securities, jobs and positions; and really wouldn’t know a hedge fund from private equity from mutual fund from market maker in actual detail of function.

    So you end up with the senators, opinions made based on broad political calculations, trying to force Lloyd into their script, rather than letting him draw them into his likely more factual representation of how GS might view a transaction.

    (Stating the obvious but just had to say it)

  78. Anonymous says:

    I see these products the same as cigarettes. “Ok, you want cigarettes? You have a desire, a demand a ‘need’ for cigarettes?” “Yes, we want/need these.” “Sure, I’ll sell them at $X” “You’re done!” “Done, thanks.” What’s the difference? Customers wanted something that any QUIB would know was built on sand…the broker/dealers made them a market and hedged their risk, i don’t see any problems.

  79. Anonymous says:

    Bottom line – the govt bailout of AIG was really a bailout of Goldman. Should have let ‘em both go BK. Thieves!!!

  80. Anonymous says:

    @79 – where the fuck did you come up with that?

  81. Anonymous says:

    @80 – Sen Levin and go eat yourself a shit sandwich….

  82. Anonymous says:

    @79 – waiting until 11pm so you can take a black car home? shouldn’t went to Goldman, we take black cars starting at 7pm after our sushi dinner.

  83. Anonymous says:

    @79
    Moron. Lb said it was covered by insurance.

  84. Marxine says:

    Gosh where is marxine when you need her most?

  85. Anonymous says:

    @81 – you’re a dumb-ass sheep. go order your water with lemon for diner and whine some more about your half-truth made-up talking points.

  86. Anonymous says:

    yeah right Levins a dope, ,,,he showed those Goldman Douches that they are a bunch of shysters and liars,,,

  87. is it me, or did lloyd use everything within his power not to say that GS didn’t need the damn gubment cheese, er, I mean tarp funds?

  88. conan says:

    Who would invest in Goldman Sachs mortgage investments? I played it safe and bought Greek bonds and magic beans.

  89. @88 – GS mortgage instruments made me feel loved…

  90. creditquant says:

    @82 Black cars started at 9pm when i was there…

  91. Anonymous says:

    Where GS and LB have failed is to explain the role of a broker versus a dealer in the financial markets. The structure of a CDO and a synthetic CDO; as well. Educational time to inform these ignorant idiots in office is the first problem. Why don’t those a$$holes in Congress get up to speed on the real issue – a “soft” public policy that everyone deserves the right to a mortgage by lowering lending standards, and along with FRE & FNM support of the US mortgage market, this allowed the securitization of sub-prime borrowers, which freed up even more monies to lend more…

    That is how we got into this mess, just because someone is short does not imply that something is inherently wrong or illegal. GS was making two sided markets – real simple.

    Take a US corporation for example, are they not shorting their respective bonds or securities to investors when they are sold under new issue, they create the securities – so they sell securities they created and investors buy them, the only difference is that the corp. continues to pay interest and principal, if they stop then we call it a short? It that now criminal when the corp. can not pay?

  92. JT says:

    It’s very clear how unfunny this was compared to the A+ job Bess did on her Pannel 1 live blogging post. Who else thinks it time to start a ‘Fire Kouwe Fund’? We might have to step in here and pay for his removal since the Breaking Media editors can’t figure out how insulting it is to allow Zach to print at this great publication.

  93. Anonymous says:

    91 – Too long, didn’t read.

  94. yo says:

    Sen. Dbag: So what would you say, you do here?

    LB: Well look, I already told you! I deal with the God damn customers so the engineers don’t have to. I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can’t you understand that?! What the hell is wrong with you people!!!

  95. creditquant says:

    Levin is a complete moron and essentially spent hours trying to look ‘tough on wall street’ on TV. The premise that a market maker shouldn’t sell stuff they “don’t believe in” is completely ridiculous. That’s akin to TD Ameritrade declining your trades because they believe you’re taking the wrong position… all around retarded.

  96. Do you think the FCC fines Levin for trash-talking like Howard Stern?

    http://acrimoney.com/2010/04/goldman-sachs-video-outtakes/

  97. guest says:

    @76 well put

    Don’t remember the specific dialogue, but how about when the (AR senator, I think) asked if market makers should be required to disclose their subjective directional view of the specific security/securities in transaction (as if a consensus view from the mm even exists). Sparks began listing the obvious complexities and conflicts with the utterly stupid idea, and the senator replies: “well that might be your opinion but I’m not so sure about that..”

    I agree with whoever mentioned earlier that the first round of MDs + Fabrice was overlawyered. Why didn’t someone just speak up and explain a market maker isn’t an advisor? Perfect opportunity when ill-informed Sen. Collins scoffed that she never knew of an “investment bank” that advertised its ability to execute transactions instead of offer advice (as if GS = schwab). Oh, and Fabrice’s comment about how a short necessarily approves the reference portfolio in a synthetic, otherwise the long would put only treasuries in the rp and avoid all risk, went over the senators heads.

  98. Rick Von Sloneker says:

    This is what Lloyd sounded like for most of the day yesterday…

    http://www.hulu.com/watch/11386/saturday-night-live-update-nicolas-fehn

  99. Guest says:

    Vote people please! These people should be asking if we want fabric softener in our laundry

  100. guest says:

    @97 exactly

  101. TGFBV says:

    “(you)…should not offer their clients investments they don’t themselves believe in. You don’t see that and it troubles me that you don’t see that. Goldman Sachs has turned itself into its own client. You took stuff from your own inventory that you didn’t believe in and sold it, then you bet against it.”

    A guy who represents Detroit berating someone for selling something they don’t believe in. Priceless.

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    bullshit, the rich have nothing agasnit the middle class or the poor, we just dont want to pay for you. should just be 8.25% tax. if its sales tax, then just sales tax. there are so many taxes that alot of items get taxed more than once. everything that the government doesnt spend should be sent back to the tax payers, and the usgovernment shouldnt spend more than we give them in allowance. ta da! no debt!

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    Youre so cool! I dont suppose Ive learn something like this before. So nice to seek out someone with some original thoughts on this subject. realy thank you for beginning this up. this web site is something that is wanted on the web, somebody with somewhat originality. useful job for bringing something new to the internet!

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