An email apparently going around today.

“We are Wall Street. It’s our job to make money. Whether it’s a commodity, stock, bond, or some hypothetical piece of fake paper, it doesn’t matter. We would trade baseball cards if it were profitable. I didn’t hear America complaining when the market was roaring to 14,000 and everyone’s 401k doubled every 3 years. Just like gambling, its not a problem until you lose. I’ve never heard of anyone going to Gamblers Anonymous because they won too much in Vegas.

Well now the market crapped out, & even though it has come back somewhat, the government and the average Joes are still looking for a scapegoat. God knows there has to be one for everything. Well, here we are.

Go ahead and continue to take us down, but you’re only going to hurt yourselves. What’s going to happen when we can’t find jobs on the Street anymore? Guess what: We’re going to take yours. We get up at 5am & work till 10pm or later. We’re used to not getting up to pee when we have a position. We don’t take an hour or more for a lunch break. We don’t demand a union. We don’t retire at 50 with a pension. We eat what we kill, and when the only thing left to eat is on your dinner plates, we’ll eat that.

For years teachers and other unionized labor have had us fooled. We were too busy working to notice. Do you really think that we are incapable of teaching 3rd graders and doing landscaping? We’re going to take your cushy jobs with tenure and 4 months off a year and whine just like you that we are so-o-o-o underpaid for building the youth of America. Say goodbye to your overtime and double time and a half. I’ll be hitting grounders to the high school baseball team for $5k extra a summer, thank you very much.

So now that we’re going to be making $85k a year without upside, Joe Mainstreet is going to have his revenge, right? Wrong! Guess what: we’re going to stop buying the new 80k car, we aren’t going to leave the 35 percent tip at our business dinners anymore. No more free rides on our backs. We’re going to landscape our own back yards, wash our cars with a garden hose in our driveways. Our money was your money. You spent it. When our money dries up, so does yours.

The difference is, you lived off of it, we rejoiced in it. The Obama administration and the Democratic National Committee might get their way and knock us off the top of the pyramid, but it’s really going to hurt like hell for them when our fat a**es land directly on the middle class of America and knock them to the bottom.

We aren’t dinosaurs. We are smarter and more vicious than that, and we are going to survive. The question is, now that Obama & his administration are making Joe Mainstreet our food supply…will he? and will they?”

219 comments (hidden to protect delicate sensibilities)
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Comments (219)

  1. Posted by guest | April 30, 2010 at 3:18 PM

    John Thomas Financial?

  2. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM

    Dey tuuuuk r jaaaahhhbs!

  3. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:20 PM

    Fake paper is environmentally friendly.

  4. Posted by BSD | April 30, 2010 at 3:23 PM

    Hitting grounders is the new nailing your secretary in the ass

  5. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:24 PM

    “I didn’t hear America complaining when the market was roaring to 14,000 and everyone’s 401k doubled every 3 years”

    I never got the whole 401(k)-Wall St connection at all.

  6. Posted by AY? Non! | April 30, 2010 at 3:25 PM

    OMG would totally go gay for this guy. wait, shouldnt have said that.

    PURE AWESOME.

  7. Posted by Pfluger the Barbarian | April 30, 2010 at 3:26 PM

    I’ll still give free rides on my back, after the revoloution.

    - Maria B.

  8. Posted by Special K | April 30, 2010 at 3:26 PM

    this is GREAT – i’m going to landscape my yard this weekend in honor of this!

  9. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:28 PM

    Hmm, first year sales support?

  10. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM

    I think it’s our own Mr. Awesome.

  11. Posted by kouwe burger | April 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM

    the ladies love Matt Creamer

    didn’t he used to work on the street? Lehman Bros? Bang Bros?

  12. Posted by ODB | April 30, 2010 at 3:33 PM

    I like your style. Feel free to drop the WuTang Financial Team your CV.

  13. Posted by AY? Non! | April 30, 2010 at 3:33 PM

    5 – you never hear it when market is going up…you only blame wall street when the market tanks…

    9 – i may actually agree with you b/c no one works from 5am til 10pm. you either get in at 6 and home by 5…or stroll in after 9 and dont leave until after midnight.

  14. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:34 PM

    @9 sounds totally back office to me– underworked, overpaid, lots of free time on their hands despite their denials.

  15. Posted by P.W. Hermann | April 30, 2010 at 3:35 PM

    I would make a great role model for 3rd graders.

  16. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:39 PM

    Hi, I am a 3rd grade teacher. What is a ‘hedge fund manager’?

  17. Posted by Fifth Grader | April 30, 2010 at 3:39 PM

    No problem, amigo. Your complete lack of ethics scares our HR departments. You don’t make it past the first interview.

  18. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:40 PM

    90/10 rule always applies.
    Seriously, O, stop fucking with the top 10%. Just ride on the coattails and deal with the envy.

    - Former LTCC, AIG Quant

  19. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:41 PM

    We’ll see how well you guys do at the local tavern with that attitude…as long as the local police force remembers the union comments and is willing to look the other way like the SEC has over the past 15 years…you’ll learn what rare meat really looks like…only it will be you on the plate…welcome to animal spirits!

  20. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:42 PM

    fuck the 3rd graders. Lazy ass bastards cant even get a fucking job

  21. Posted by RandomQuant | April 30, 2010 at 3:46 PM

    Not sure why blaming Obama (maybe just because he is Kenyan born Muslim Communist). I didn’t really see any action by him which harmed Wall Street besides political rhetoric although democratic senators are different!

    Bush had caused massive damage which will take forever to heal and I suspect will be responsible for long term decline of America.

  22. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:46 PM

    Note to self:

    Do not forget to also take over Local Taverns.

  23. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM

    whoever wrote this is sad.

  24. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:54 PM

    I didn’t believe the ship was really sinking until my gf cheated on me with an advertising guy.

  25. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 3:54 PM

    John Galt did it better.

  26. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM

    @19,21,23

    you union guys are a bunch of pussies. i could kick all three of your asses if you would just stop drilling each others’ asses

  27. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM

    @25 Who is John Galt?

  28. Posted by Mr. Awesome | April 30, 2010 at 4:06 PM

    That is one amazing email. If one didnt know better you would think the Martini lunch and the Friday golf meetings were just a wives tale. Yeah you boys work soooo hard for sooo little. Those doctors really need to take note.

    Man you make it hard to defend WS against the govt and the unions. Lets not forget you idiots voted for the same politicians that the AFL CIO and SEIU vote for and hang with. Shit you are throwing a fundraiser for them tonight! Why are you complaining? YOU GUYS VOTED FOR OBAMA!

    WS needs to get over itself. You are not taking over anyones job, you can barely do your own. Your job is not to make money, its to make money for other people and take a cut for a job well done. YOU FAILED. You tricked people and withheld information to create an unfair advantage. How is that talent? Its bullshit and you could graduate with a GED to do that.

    Selling financial instruments to your own clients with less then full disclosure is disgraceful. It cannot be defended or tolerated.

    I would actually equate that type of trickery and business acumen to that of a used care salesman. If thats the job you are taking over. Try BMW they hold their value well.

    If you aim to cut grass I pay 20 an hr but bring your own mower.

    The arrogance… you guys are just begging for this.

  29. Posted by guest | April 30, 2010 at 4:06 PM

    the tone is a bit douchy but it still gets the point across

  30. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 4:31 PM

    can DB hire this guy?!

  31. Posted by CoveredLong | April 30, 2010 at 4:36 PM

    What the hell does rant mean?

    -PG

  32. Posted by Anonymous T. Bosch | April 30, 2010 at 4:39 PM

    The point, for people so quick to blame WS for being closed-minded, is that some of the absoltue best and brightest of the past two generations have gone into finance, whether it be Hedge Funds, Investment Banks, etc. So the sudden populist anger against Wall Street will produce a huge backlash.

    People who go into finance, the people being blasted by everyone for “causing the financial crisis” (BS by the way, go pay your damn mortgage) are competitive, aggressive, and some of the smartest minds in the country. If they don’t have finance, they will find other ways to make money and that will push more common people out of a job.

    The fact is, finance and financial professionals produce a huge amount of tax revenue, they produce, directly or indirectly, a huge amount of the country’s GDP, so harming finance is like cutting out a kidney to make your body work better, it just won’t work.

    And do try to remember, non-financial wizards who for some reason read this blog. We manage your pensions. We finance your borrowing, your spending, your houses, and your cars. Without us, the warm cozy existence you’ve been leading disappears and you actually have to earn your lifestyle.

  33. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 4:39 PM

    Mr. Awesome apparently thinks that Wall Street = 10 people at Goldman Sachs.

  34. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 4:44 PM

    I call bullshit on this- obviously fake.

  35. Posted by Mr. Awesome | April 30, 2010 at 4:45 PM

    @19 your salary, pension, healthcare, vacation days, tips etc.. are all paid/guaranteed and/or subsidized through tax dollars. That’s why you are protesting right? To back up your union boss obama and help sure up his position. I mean what would happen if your DEM buddies should fail to get elected in November? You might have to say good bye to your power to annoy everyone.
    Oh and dare we think about your leader not getting reelected? oh boy there goes the tax money for new lunch ladies, carbon credits and larger govt.

    Explain to me how taking down the last industry that makes anything in this country (thanks to you assholes) is going to help your ability to collect those GUARANTEED wages?

    Where do you think the tax money will come from? The NYC money machine will dry up like a seaman stain on your IROC Z’s pleather interior.

    You are either too stupid or too drunk to understand. Not sure why I bother but I do feel better.

  36. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 4:48 PM

    @27 – see, there was this guy and this engine . . .

    Ahh, nevermind.

  37. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 4:48 PM

    #35 – I hope to be too drunk to understand any of this. Shortly.

  38. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 4:50 PM

    @32 What about the wizards who can pay cash for everything? There are some of us who have no need of you. I sincerely hope that our best and brightest turn away from your profession and decide to contribute something that really matters.

  39. Posted by volatilitysmile | April 30, 2010 at 4:50 PM

    @28 – You actually make a compelling argument. You forgot that it will be difficult for the guy to pull these tricks from his mother’s basement, with all the coldplay p*rn, and the tr*nny music, and the mass mast*******n while listening to the (vynil copy) yellow submarine…

    It never ceased to amaze me why the sell side bothers coming to work… outsourceable to the least common denominator (a Polish plumber comes to mind, but then this is more of a Eurotrash reference).

  40. Posted by PermaGuest | April 30, 2010 at 4:52 PM

    @37 I second that remark.

  41. Posted by Special K | April 30, 2010 at 4:53 PM

    @28….bring it Peasant!!

  42. Posted by PermaGuest | April 30, 2010 at 4:55 PM

    @38 So you really use no financial instruments or products of any kind? Interesting. How did you get your electric company to accept payment in chickens?

  43. Posted by Perkins Maxwell | April 30, 2010 at 4:59 PM

    Love the tags

  44. Posted by Mr. Awesome | April 30, 2010 at 4:59 PM

    @33 no I don’t.

    I just can’t stand the WS assholes like ones who defend the status quo. If you defend it, it gives the administration/unions more of a voice.

    There were major infractions on WS from GS to Madoff. I hold the DEMS in congress more at fault and find Obama and Carl’s “wasn’t me” rhetoric just shameful but you guys have no game.

    I grew up in NYC and respect WS’s contribution to our economy. I also know what this administration is going to do to this economy and it pains me that GS gave this wolf in sheep’s clothing a reason to come here. Flush our economy down the toilet and bring his UNION BOYZ like BROWN SHIRTS to stage a protest. The country hates us.

    To hear you defend the banks makes all of this even worse.

    I would rather you take your licks. Learn something like, stop sending arrogant, french pussies to represent your industry in a congressional hearing. The whole nation watched as a 31 year-old french kid mouthed off to a Harvard trained attorney. You think FAB bought you guys any credit with the nation? Ha, he made Obama’s job much easier!

    Simply frightening…

  45. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 5:01 PM

    I like this kid. Tell me where he works. I want to hire him.

    -Ping Jiang

  46. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM

    i hated this until i imagined christopher walken reading it

  47. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 5:13 PM

    I think this person is angry at all the anger directed toward the industry. Many a sane people within this industry often feel like their honest-to-god hard work is for nothing and thus holds no meaning. And so we don’t see the GREAT purpose that the finance industry offers America. We see its faults and its fat. We think much of it is bullshit.

    Yes, we are bright, smart, and hard-working, but so are many other people in several other industries. The ones with no direction went to WS because to be truthful, that’s where the money was along with prestige.

    Though, I can understand a certain amount of pride in your job and industry. But we all need to remember that we’re all just a small cog apart of a larger system, and everyone whose ranting have not gandered outside their bubble yet. Meanwhile politicians do what they do best, play the blame game. There is definitely fault to be ascertained and that’s for sure, but people are rarely faulting themselves.

    The blame for the economy lies with everyone within the economy. From government lack of fore-sight to ill-incentivised management at fortune 500 companies, the wall street execs looking at only short-term gain and the lack of ethics found on the street, and more importantly the regular joe spending over his means for that iPhone.

    But I know you guys like to argue so you guys have fun. I just wanted to throw this perspective in the mix because I don’t hear it as often from the boards and such, even though that’s all my friends and I talk about within our industry.

    Also, comment #2 made my day and comment #27 was very clever. Thanks guys.

  48. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 5:16 PM

    This guy is a repressed homosexual.

  49. Posted by PermaGuest | April 30, 2010 at 5:18 PM

    @47 Couldn’t one argue that an economic downturn isn’t really anyone’s *fault* per se, but just something that naturally occurs in a cycle? I sort of think so… anyway time to go ponder this over a beer or five.

  50. Posted by guest | April 30, 2010 at 5:20 PM

    I’ll eat your babies, bitch.

  51. Posted by Mr. Awesome | April 30, 2010 at 5:22 PM

    @49 careful who you sit next to. I wouldn’t put it passed the union boyz to hit the WS taverns looking to collect on their unemployment.

  52. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 5:28 PM

    Getting beat up by union boyz at the WS taverns is the new killing it.

  53. Posted by Anonymous T. Bosch | April 30, 2010 at 5:28 PM

    @38, have you ever used a credit card? A debit card? Did you pay 100% of your house in cash? Better yet, did you pay for it to be built from your own cash? Have you ever bought a stock, a bond, a mutual fund? Do you have a 401k? A retirement plan or benefits?

    Very few people can pay for everything with cash. Those people then hire professionals to manage their money. The fact is, the vast majority of prgress in the past 60 years has been because of or financed by the banks.

    It’s so easy for all the societal leeches to complain about finance, because they will never understand how much of their comfort is due to the financial industry.

    At the end of the day, you have finance, everything that runs because of finance (that includes governments), and the small portion of the world economy that may possible exist if finance did not. Go back to your ivory tower, pull the shade down, look at the pretty picture painted on it, and stop bothering people who earn everything they are given.

    -32

    I’d rather be hated than poor and uneducated.

  54. Posted by ExtraordinaryPopularDelusions | April 30, 2010 at 5:33 PM

    The only person who could make an argument like this email and actually be correct is someone with a name-tag that says “Central Fucking Bank.”

    If you don’t understand why that is and you actually work for a LIVING in FINANCE, you are an idiot. That’s like making crayons for a living and not knowing what the color red is.

    @47. See, that’s reasonable. If you could just get the idiotic douchebags in finance to not talk this whole problem would sort itself out.

  55. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

    @4–Thank you very much.

  56. Posted by Taco | April 30, 2010 at 5:45 PM

    Don’t need cash. That’s what eskimo brothers are for.

  57. Posted by Learn some @#$%ing History | April 30, 2010 at 5:49 PM

    Boy you all really are retarded aren’t you? The government tries to hide its own incompetence by blaming wall street and you all fall for it. The real fault in this financial fiasco is the government. Who is it who gutted the Glass-Steagall act so that investment banks could view mortgages as another financial instrument? Congress. Who is it who passed a myriad community reinvestment acts designed to get poor people into homes with Fannie and Freddie mortgages (i.e. sub prime)? Congress. And yet, when the shit hits the fan in the exact way Glass-Steagall was designed to prevent (i.e. an economic collapse brought on by real estate speculation, like what happened in the depression of 1893, or did you think this was a new kind of melt down?) everyone acts surprised and blames the bankers.

    Now I would be the least surprised to find that bankers are all cut throat SOBs willing to kick their grannies down a flight of stairs for a better return, but this has been the case for as long as there have been investment bankers. The Great Depression was, at least partially, caused by investment bankers selling worthless paper to investors all too willing to chase returns instead of doing real due diligence. Sound familiar? What a surprise that when Congress gives everyone the chance to do it again they do.

    So while you may denigrate the investment banks while sitting in houses financed by them, driving cars financed by them, eating dinners paid for with credit cards given to you by them, looking forward to retirement on generous pensions managed by them, and not saving a bloody penny yourselves (at least statistically you all aren’t), ask who it was who gave the banks the keys to the world’s economy? Congress, and the nitwits who voted for them over the past 30 years. But of course, those nitwits would be all of us wouldn’t it?

  58. Posted by Mr. Awesome | April 30, 2010 at 5:59 PM

    @57 actually WS and the unions are tied for the most donations to Obama’s campaign. We all may have voted for our chosen candidate but it was WS that helped to narrow down the options.

    Funny how now they are getting the return on that investment.

    It is really the one investment we all wish they shorted…

  59. Posted by KOUWHEATIES | April 30, 2010 at 6:15 PM

    #56 ftw

  60. Posted by Joe Mainstreet | April 30, 2010 at 6:21 PM

    Hey WS you’re right. You are so f*cking competitive when you have no skin in the game. Go ahead take your bank charter and gamble with the secured deposits of widows and orphans; Sell shitty securities to pensions, universities, and municipalities; Utilize a self-interested ratings agency to say that your shit (or in this case your CMBS tranches, CDOs, CDOs’) doesn’t stink.
    That sure sounds like you should be compensated for taking a lot of risk and creating a lot of value

    Both WS and Mainstreet would be better off with glass-steagall in place and all of your asses back in private partnerships. Take all the risk you want, just don’t do it on my dime.

    The problem that mainstreet has with you f*cks is that you think you are the start and end to it all. No one would have a problem if you chose to manage risk on the front end rather than on the back end (maybe underwrite the deal on the front end and keep it from happening instead of offloading the crap you put together once its on your books)that way the rest of us wouldn’t have to pay for your insidious behavior.

    BTW don’t hold yourself out as harmless market makers. You had sterling reputations and you used them to promoted products you believed to be garbage to see if you could find a greater fool. Some took you to be a trusted advisor while you looked to yourself as market maker.

    I would love to see you lay brick in 100 degree heat, work 15 hours in a sweltering restaurant kitchen or even mow all the yards on your block. You don’t have it in you. You got in at 5 and left at 10 because some one was waiving the promise of 8 to 9 figures in your face and the second anyone stands up and calls you out for not creating any value you get your panties in a bunch.

    So please come to Mainstreet, but the Merino wool bespoke suits and the sea island cotton shirts with french cuffs are gonna fray on tending those rose bushes. You may want to trade them in for a Carhart jacket and some coveralls.

  61. Posted by Zap | April 30, 2010 at 6:25 PM

    “Our money was your money. You spent it. When our money dries up, so does yours.”

    In fact your money was always OUR money and you skimmed the profits when you won gambling with it and stuck us with the losses when you went bust.

    Gamble with your own fucking money then get back to us and tell us how great you are doing

    Raise your own fucking stake and get back in there hot shot

  62. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 6:27 PM

    What elementary school teacher makes $85k/year?

  63. Posted by another journo | April 30, 2010 at 6:36 PM

    No one would give a shit if GS stopped working- although they would certainly give a shit about the clean up costs from all their blown out positions.

    Since i think there’s a good odds this is going to happen anyway (fraud charges both here and overseas followed by client flight, counter-parties withdrawing, “talent” fleeing and lots of other good stuff!), I really wish these self-important dorks would do their little boycott. It would be awesome seeing the feral nerds getting all Ghandi (or God help me, John Galt)

  64. Posted by Mr. Awesome | April 30, 2010 at 6:57 PM

    @60 Nicely written and i’m not just saying that because you are a main street kinda guy. I think you laid out your point very clearly and with articulate flare. I realize, being “main street” affords you certain liberties with facts.

    I do wonder do you have the same anger toward the govt? Do you hold Barney Frank, Carl Levin, Pelosi or Shumer or dare I say Obama. Accountable for any of this? Or are you one of those, “Bush did it”. It was all Bush’s fault people? You come across with excellent points but fail to see the entire game for all its players. Are you drinking the kool aide? Maybe you work for a union?

    Are you aware of Obama’s role in this mess? Do you know he was a major contributor to arranging the mortgage loans that WS sold, the very same loans that sunk the economy? Have you watched Barney Frank describe with great detail the strength of Fan& Fred not 8 months before the entire melt down? Do you wonder why the CEO of Fannie Mae took home a 90 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS after the havoc he caused? Do you wonder why HE HAS NOT BEEN ASKED TO APPEAR IN FRONT OF CONGRESS? I”ll tell you, he is friends with Obama.

    Do you take any issue with the govt ignoring their own contribution to the melt down. The fact that they think you are so stupid, they can drag a few Sea Island, cotton shirt, wearing guys out on camera and make you believe the buck began and ended with them?

    Do you stop and wonder why Obama comes to NYC to give a speech about FINANCE REFORM and the union bosses are sitting there front row?

    I would respect your anger and your points if you had mentioned at least one member of the govt along with your WS bash. Your inability to recognize how the mess began with the govt. The politicians who pushed these mortgages and hold them responsible, makes me feel you are just some asshole with an agenda. Interested in redirecting other people’s income for your own benefit. You are using GS and WS’s wealth to obfuscate your true motivations. Thais i cannot respect.

    Tell Obama to stop spending or tax money on union sponsored bills. Tell him to cut spending and allow the private sector to get back on its feet. Tell him to take responsibility for his own actions. Right now all it seems is you want to replace GS with the SEIU and we may not like either but I can’t say the SEIU ever created anything. As least GS employees pay much needed taxes to NY State and help keep this state alive.

    Be careful Obama has you cutting your nose to spite your income, job, healthcare and lively hood.

    Call out the the govt with that same vigor and you will find a friend, right here where Wall Street meets Main Street, meet Pennsylvania Ave.

  65. Posted by LM | April 30, 2010 at 7:13 PM

    “Do you really think that we are incapable of teaching 3rd graders and doing landscaping? We’re going to take your cushy jobs with tenure and 4 months off a year…”

    Just shows how completely out of touch this guy is. Didn’t he know the whole purpose of union is to ensure that people are hired/evaluated NOT based on their skill but based on their membership?

  66. Posted by Reality | April 30, 2010 at 7:20 PM

    Full disclosure, I am not in finance.

    Someone commented that in the past 20 years or so the best and brightest went to Wall Street. This, unfortunately is 100% true.

    I agree with that, and therein lies the ultimate problem.

    We needed the best and brightest in the CIA, Whitehouse etc like it used to be. Maybe then we would have seen 911 coming, found a cure for cancer, cured world hunger etc etc.

    Instead, the best and brightest had their noses to the grindstone cranking out money.

    Investment Banking never required the best and the brightest….I lend you cash, you pay me back with a little etc…the world turns.

    A (brilliant) mind is a terrible thing to waste (on finance).

  67. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 7:42 PM

    glass steagall repeal killed wall street, a bunch of dumb fuckers at deutsche bank used massive saving deposits to fund every stupid asset in the world. maybe these union guys will help smart guys outperform once again.

    btw the brightest always go into finance, its always been that way, unfortunately for the past 10 years you had knuckleheads that whored balance sheet compete with smart capital allocators.

  68. Posted by tonguesincheek | April 30, 2010 at 7:45 PM

    @63 my HS gym teacher in Darien made 97k/yr.

    @66 Why should they work somewhere where they earn grossly less than they deserve? I didn’t spend my youth getting fancy degrees and internships only to never be able to afford to send my kids to the schools I went to.

    If an entry-level engineer got paid what ibanking analysts did, maybe things would be different. Let me know when that happens and I’ll switch back. I liked making real stuff more anyway.

    Can you derive Black Scholes for a vanilla call? If not, you truly have no idea what it takes intellectually to do what even the dumbest quant does every day. Finance REQUIRES the smartest people because it is so crucial to the proper functioning of the world, and it is not simple.

    Get back Glass-Steagall. Prosecute fraud if it exists, and put people in jail. Burn DC and the SEC to the ground, and then start over, paying people in the public sector the market rates for their positions.

  69. Posted by NotAmused | April 30, 2010 at 8:15 PM

    Please keep all comments under 2 sentences or 50 words (whichever is smaller).

    Thanks.

  70. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 8:48 PM

    @60

    Sorry I would rather work behind my desk instead of do all that for a pathetic $13 an hour.

  71. Posted by guest | April 30, 2010 at 8:55 PM

    hey moron at 60. Why the hell would I work 15 hours in restaurant kitchen…I did not get a good education and develop my mind to work at the level of a third world rickshaw driver…if mowing all the yards in your block and manual level is your criteria, you should try moving to mexico or sub-saharan africa, f*uckhead

  72. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 8:59 PM

    I remember giving this kid a swirley and hanging him on the door in his tighty whities in high school

  73. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 9:00 PM

    @60- Maybe if you mainstreet workers paid your damn mortgages, we would of never went into this problem.

  74. Posted by jack | April 30, 2010 at 9:18 PM

    simply comical. anyone who thinks that they are above everyone else in the larger economy is a self-centered ignoramus. go cut your own grass, if you could figure out how to start the mower all mighty genius.

  75. Posted by Zack Pierce | April 30, 2010 at 9:45 PM

    Well I have a serioul moral and economically based opposing view. Our market (economy) is driven by demand. Firms meet that demand with credit or equity capital. Wall Street serves a fundamental role in facilitiating this flow of credit and capital. If the big houses want to make a few bets on the side, fine, but as we dive deeper into the claculus of the system (derivatives, “synthetics” etc.), we fall further and further away from adding economic value. How do we fix that problem? By sucking out real value and bundling and packaging it until it is unrecognizeable. Other than a few of us, I don’t know anyone who knows what mezzanine financing or tranche placements are. Who would care? Sure, they may serve some perfunctory role, but they suck value away from the system. But when my mom has to liquidate her retirement account into a s-t bond fund or mmkt, that’s a sign that the flow of cpatial has been too many times diverted.

    This creates a “frankenstein” who feeds off of basic human “desire to acquire” as I call it. (I really do think I made that up.) GS needs to sell ABS. So they call banks and say “get us the product, we will pay you and your books will be freed up.” Then the lenders call everyone in their book to get home loans. Soliciting debt, in my opinion, is wrong. Especially when the lender uses the old “tax savings” and “consolidation” routine. So they need the loans so badly to sell, that they just take peoples’ word when it comes to income and stability (stated income loan). They didn’t come into the bank looking to do this. If you don’t pay your credit cards, your FICO drops. If you don’t pay your mortgage, you lose your freaking house, and no one likes to sleep out under the stars except, well, I can’t think of anybody

    So your neighbor’s house is foreclosed upon. Now, it’s probable that your house isn’t worth as much. Your equity falls in your most important asset. You might even get upside down if you’re lucky! Sounds fun to be upside down like you’re on the monkey bars at the shool playground. All the while, these insititutions are trading the tranches and pieces of the pie baked with the loans. Selling them to investment advisers who in turn sell them to cities, counties, school districts and others. Whoops, now that people are in default, these investments start to lose value for cities, counties, schools, pension funds etc. Uh oh turns out that is your money Wall Street guy. I could care less about his $20 tip! Now he will have to mow his own yard, oh my God does he even know what two cycle oil is? I guess he could ask “Average Joe.”

  76. Posted by Anonymous | April 30, 2010 at 10:47 PM

    @53, well, you are hated by a lot of folks, that’s for sure, along with most of the U.S. Congress and the fuckups in the White House who wait ’til the oil slick is ready to devour the Gulf Coast before they spring into action. Jeez, I thought it couldn’t get any worse than Bush, but it has.

    We have a pretty-boy president who is more concerned about this self-image and throwing massive amounts of our money around, rather than getting to the root causes of the mess we’re in (which some have noted has a lot to do with Congressional predilictions; are you listening, Bawney?).

    Most of the FABulous jerks on Wall Street will thumb their nose at Obama and continue their malfeasance, because they know they can get away with it.

  77. Posted by Arthur | May 1, 2010 at 1:51 AM

    Marie Antoinette crap…..Righto, big swingin’ dick… enjoy til we hack your junk off with a butter knife and stuff it down your throat.

    To quote one Dennis Kneale, who said “people in the rest of America need to understand bonus means one thing in Manhattan and another thing in the rest of America”, I say “…but torches and ptichforks mean the same thing everywhere.”

    Duck when we bust your picture window with a cinder block…because you may have taken our money, but we still have our hands. And yes, we will fuck you, your wife, your daughters and your kinda gay lacross playing son up the ass when we come…

  78. Posted by what the? | May 1, 2010 at 2:23 AM

    @77 kinda gay lacrosse son?

  79. Posted by what the? | May 1, 2010 at 2:24 AM

    @77 leave Duke out of this…..

  80. Posted by what the? | May 1, 2010 at 2:29 AM

    who will support the titty bars, Vegas, buy shi**ty chinese ADRs, Scottrade, Big Bertha irons, Lexuses, overpriced Ivy League degrees?

  81. Posted by Anonymous | May 1, 2010 at 11:45 AM

    I worked on the Steet for 30 years and was recently laid off. It’s a disgrace what these cocksuckers have done to the business and the country. Fuck every single one of them in their undertalented overpaid asses. Come the revolution you douchebags are first.

  82. Posted by Joe Mainstreet | May 1, 2010 at 1:07 PM

    @64 your right, the government was complicit and the elected officials should be held accountable, it was a deal struck in hell- the left in a move to the center gave up on glass-steagall and reduced regulation in a nod to the markets, while the right in a compromise with the left decided it was a right for everyone in this country to own a house. Now we are picking up the pieces of this crap.

    @70 that is exactly my point. my post was in response to the open email about how wall street would eat main street. the premise of my post is that since money is your motivation, you would not have the patience or inclination to “lower” yourself to work a job that pays in the $13- $30 an hour range.

    @73 your right the people that took on the debt should pay their obligations. The problem is that the pooling of mortgages incentivizes the fee based mortgage brokerage industry to give up on underwriting entirely- NINJA loans, subprime loans, negative am pay option arms. As I am sure you would agree the only reason those products existed was to broaden the base of borrowers and generate fees. No bank would rightfully make these loans if they could not offload the risk associated with these products.

    So that brings us back to Wall Street where the ratings agencies bowed to your pressure and the politicians took your money (or labors so the union members could all get houses they cannot afford). And some asshole who was in over his head believed that when GS, JPM, C, BOA, WFC, LEH, MS, DB etc. approached them with a product that the sterling reputation of these wall street giants were behind the products, and beside the securities were AAA anyways.

    Again, the @60 post was a response to the open salvo from WS to MS. I have no agenda other than these two thoughts:

    1) Mainstreet get angry because wall street acts like it takes entrepreneurial risk and works more than mainstreet when in fact wall street rarely takes risk with its own capital anymore and mainstreet works just as hard.

    2) Free markets are the most efficient, but the caveat is the requirement for perfect information. When the deck is stacked by the body politic and the body financial, society as whole ends up where we are now- privatized return for public risk. The worst possible paradigm for everyone except the politicians and the bankers.

  83. Posted by Joe Mainstreet | May 1, 2010 at 1:10 PM

    don’t let the your/ you’re typo get in the way of the discussion

  84. Posted by Anonymous | May 1, 2010 at 3:43 PM

    The arrogance displayed here is amazing. If the smartest really do all go into finance it certainly does not show. I would say that is rubbish, where is the evidence? Every day the sheer volume of aircraft that fly and the number of passengers safley delivered seems like a miracle. It is clear to see smart people involved there. In the world of finance their is rubble everywhere and the clock is ticking on the final bomb and nobody to see it or care. What is the point being rich if your nation is corrupted from within to the point where its invaded and you are enslaved anyhow ? Seems pretty bloody stupid to me. Where is the evidance of smart people there ? I see greed and arrogance that is startling. No real smart though.

  85. Posted by Anonymous | May 1, 2010 at 5:43 PM

    Hehe.. this is desperate bravado, the kind that people with non-marketable skills get before layoffs. The landscaping part is funny too; quants getting sunburn in 30 seconds, losing fingers and toes on sharp objects.

  86. Posted by Anonymous | May 1, 2010 at 6:56 PM

    1. Caveat Emptor.

    2. The cause of this entire crisis is the rampant sense of entitlement among Americans. Not everyone deserves to own a home, but the GOVERNMENT decided that it was a right that needed to be extended to those who could not afford it. Great idea. Now we are all paying for it.

    3. I don’t agree with WS’ role in the financial collapse, BUT, I think the government is far more complicit than they are taking credit for. There needs to be a return to responsibility, but those calling for the destruction of the world’s investment banks do NOT know the role they play in development in international commerce.

    4. Half the main street idiots making posts here or claims in the media are completely unaware of what INVESTMENT banks actually do.

    5. The most frustrating thing is that if everyone put their emotions aside and looked at the situation objectively, a reasonable compromise that pleases everyone could be reached.

    6. Say what you want, but someone who dropped out of high school and lays brick does not deserve to be paid as much as someone who had to take out 250k in student loans for a top notch education and works 100 hours/week. Not saying one is less of a person, but compensation needs to be adjusted accordingly or we will cease to have any sort of innovaton.

  87. Posted by Anonymous | May 1, 2010 at 8:05 PM

    Is the problem not more the repackaging and reselling of extremely poor mortgage loans as solid investments. Fraud. If this did not occur then the ‘market’ would have naturally limited the amount of cash available to loan to people that would never be able to repay it.

  88. Posted by Anonymous | May 1, 2010 at 8:10 PM

    Perhaps it is half the wall street idiots working in the investment banks that are completely unaware of what they are actually doing.

    What someone should be paid should be determined by what someone is willing to pay them for what they can do. Not how much they spent on their education of the number of hours they work each week.

  89. Posted by Anonymous | May 1, 2010 at 8:18 PM

    The biggest problem with investment banks is that they give capitalism a bad name and doom us all to the socialist future that they have already so eagerly embraced.

  90. Posted by Andrew | May 1, 2010 at 9:33 PM

    Sorry to say, but in a way, he or she is right. The United States didn’t give a crap about how their investments fluorished as long as it fluorished. Now they lose, they complain.

    Either way, Americans, and Canadians, and the rest of the Western world, are just idiots and naive and selfish and inconsiderate and egocentric. They don’t give a crap about the rest of world, or how they suffered. Just as long as they got their Ipods and their profits!

    But the bankers should be happy with Obama. He’s going to make them even richer with his finance reform bill!

  91. Posted by Anonymous | May 2, 2010 at 3:27 AM

    These f*ckin’ guys

  92. Posted by Anonymous | May 2, 2010 at 3:06 PM

    Its lower and lower middle class americans that are the most overpaid…open the borders and outsource their asses…and let these people understand exactly how overpaid they are…and while at it, let mexicans in to work even harder in kitchens and mow lawns…high-end business is what makes america still earn a premium, not ged toting union m*fuckers…

  93. Posted by Gozer | May 2, 2010 at 6:18 PM

    Jesus H. Fucking Christ…

    Most of the rambling on this site is inane drivel.

    WS does not make anything. It takes it’s cut from those who do. I have no problem with this, I do the same. But do not go moralize about how important, smart or how much better than you are than others because you do. This is not only arrogant and pathetic, but I paints a big fucking target on your back for the populists. Make your fucking money and keep your head down. I work with people who make millions per month who wear jeans and t-shirts to work. The boys at GETCO wear fucking sneakers and sweatshirts to the office and some of them make more in a week than many of your MDs do in a year.

    So simmer down, the only thing stopping most of you from losing your jobs and prestige is your army of lobbyists and by proxy your campaign contributions. Many have paid the bailouts back, but the low interest rate environment, suspension of FASB 157, the yield curve structure, the generous QE and the large number of emergency financing programs keep you from failing. You are not irreplaceable and you are not invincible. Do you remember Drexel? Yea, neither do I. Some of you are making it tough to be in the business with your infinite hubris and your sense of entitlement.

    WS should defend itself with vigor. But the sheer arrogance that has displayed itself both in this asshole’s letter and on this board are reasons why many are gunning for us. Sit down, STFU and continue to make more than surgeons; this will blow over eventually.

  94. Posted by HelloBunny | May 2, 2010 at 8:41 PM

    Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street. Fuck Wall Street.

  95. Posted by Anonymous | May 2, 2010 at 9:55 PM

    @Everone Most importantly, why does Dealbreaker have ads for Tampax now? Seriously, I promise I’ll buy a case of MHL every week if we can just go back to the way things used to be.

    -Guy who doesn’t like MHL very much but would rather see ads for that than Tampax

  96. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 7:37 AM

    @25 – John Galt, however, did it in about 75 pages – points for being succinct.

  97. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 8:55 AM

    This site is excellent. Its surprising Americans as well as the citizens of other developed nations still clearly need educating as to the type of sociopathic fuckers that need to dealt with but clearly they do. This site provides a beautiful example for all to see. Please carry on. I’m glad you are too fucking dumb to see the future you are making for yourselves.

    And any decent people reading this. Please help me spread the word. Every worth while citizen needs to see this. Particularly those who have lost or are loosing all they have worked hard to build to these fuckers.

  98. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 8:56 AM

    @94 Fucking A!

  99. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 9:12 AM

    92 Have you ever considered work as a clown ? I think you should give it some serious thought. Why not do something remotely useful with your life ?

  100. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 9:22 AM

    Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.

    –W. Munney

  101. Posted by PermaGuest | May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM

    @60 Some of us both work on Wall Street and do our own home maintenance, you know…

    -Guy who just spent a weekend laying not bricks but a bluestone terrace

  102. Posted by alefkandra | May 3, 2010 at 10:49 AM

    @60 why the hell are you reading DB then?

  103. Posted by trader | May 3, 2010 at 11:08 AM

    @ 17 What lack of ethics? Is it a sin to tell you the truth that we are smarter than you ? Is it a sin to tell you how things are going to play out ? Well, I think Im doing a favor to you telling you what IS going to happen

  104. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 2:03 PM

    but i like my sea island cotton shirt…..

  105. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 2:13 PM

    All,

    For those of you who are not aware or if you have never been to the site before, the comments section of dealbreaker is not really intended for actual discussion. It is for jokes and self depricating humor only. If you are taking any of the comments that you are reading seriously, then the joke is on you. Please understand that this is not a serious financial website and that most of the comments are actually just inside jokes.

  106. Posted by SixGun | May 3, 2010 at 2:41 PM

    Since I wrote the original piece 6 months ago and now a bastardized version is being posted. Maybe this explains it better. http://fillemandbillem.com/2010/04/30/excommunicated-from-the-united-states-of-america/

  107. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 3:19 PM

    Sixgun, was it hard writing with Gundlach in an office full of dildos?

  108. Posted by bigboy | May 3, 2010 at 5:41 PM

    Wall Street has the brightest people from our top universities. They work harder and longer than any other industry. What was said is a pretty accurate description of what can happen.

    While you are picking on Goldman Sachs ask yourself one question.

    Did you or anyone that you know actually get a mortgage from Goldman Sachs?

    When you answer the question “no” it will be an epipheny and you might realize that this is no more than politics being played on you.

    That’s right Joe Idiot, Goldman did not generate a single mortgage. So why is Obama going after them? He doesn’t want you to know that it was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that allowed many of you to get mortgages that you were not entitled to. I know it’s hard for you to accept it, but it’s true. How the f… did you get a mortgage wiothout a job and expect to pay it off? For the most part it was the “gpvernment agencies” that gave you that mortgage and wants to blame Wall Street on it. Get a life>

  109. Posted by Anonymous | May 3, 2010 at 5:45 PM

    Totally agree with the post. Go long Brass & Lead.

  110. Posted by westin lord | May 4, 2010 at 3:40 AM

    @77 not sure why an obviously over aggressive bisexual rapist would concern himself with the sexual preference of a possibly confused young man, no matter how good you think he looks with his pads on and hands around a stick. If i were you, i would not worry too much about the problems on WS. you seem to have much larger issues to deal with, including but not limited to, rape (fantasies i hope), sexual identity, penis envy, vandalism, and petafilia. not a long list but a very serious one that i have gathered from only one of your posts. please post your name on here so i can keep an eye out for you on To catch a predator, if it ever gets back on the air.
    i wish you a speedy recovery, and although i do not work on wall street, just the thought of you being out there makes me never want to have children. not because you will rape them, i will have ample security, but because my little boy could turn out to be a hate mongering bisexual rapist. lord knows your father never thought you would be.

  111. Posted by Michael Keenan | May 5, 2010 at 1:05 AM

    I hope to see this asshole jackle hanging from a lamp post just like Mussilinni did.

  112. Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2010 at 10:02 AM

    @ 77 “Arthur” ….Just got around to reading your lovely missive -

    You’ve turned out very well – you must be very proud of yourself.

  113. Posted by Taylor | May 10, 2010 at 11:13 AM

    If we regualte you we’ll lose our jobs and our money? Um…so what happened when we didn’t regulate you? We lost our jobs and our money.

  114. Posted by brian | May 13, 2010 at 11:01 PM

    funny!

  115. Posted by Former 3rd Grade Teacher/MBA | May 13, 2010 at 11:47 PM

    I used to be a third grade teacher in the Bronx and then went on to get my MBA at a top 3 program, and I can tell you, these guys on wall street are pretty smart and they could very well succeed as a 3rd grade teacher, but it’s not as easy as the writer and most people in the private sector probably think, especially if you’re teaching in New York City in a low-income area like the Bronx.

    When I was in the classroom, I used to work 65-80 hours per week, have tight performance objectives to meet each day, and if you didn’t perform, there were things administration could do to force you out without having to actually fire you. Add this pressure with the challenging students you have, both behaviorally and academically, and it’s simply not that easy. There’s a lot of pressure and the job requires you to be on a heightened sense of alert, as if you were going into a war zone, you wake up in the mornings feeling a bit anxious, never really sleeping easy and Sunday afternoons and evenings were the worst. And if I’m a Teach For America corps member, my day could be like this: I begin teaching at 7:30am and work with the students straight through the day until 5pm, using lunch and planning periods as additional instruction time… I would savor those 10 minutes that I had each day to quickly down a snickers bar, drink some fountain water, and then run to the bathroom before having to teach again (you can’t go to the bathroom whenever you want as a teacher either).

    To be fair, teachers do get at least 3.5 months off if you count summer, spring and winter break, and the older teachers in the school system do whine about how many hours they work or when asked to do something outside of their job description, and most of the lifers are overpaid (due to union) and not so effective, but these are teachers that are on their way out and the younger generation leans towards my profile.

    I think that those coming from the finance industry have excellent training in terms of the mental fortitude/discipline and the smarts that’s currently lacking in the education sector, but I want to make clear that teaching is simply not that easy. The belief that “Those who can do, do, and those who can’t, teach” is perverse in the private sector and very misguided.
    There are a lot of skills the job requires: presentation skills, strategic planning (short and long-term), leadership/management skills (team building, creating buy-in, influencing/selling, performance measurement, creating incentive and disciplinary policies and enforcing them).

  116. Posted by Dave | November 4, 2010 at 4:00 AM

    Spoken like a true sociopath. Full of bluster, threats, and a complete inability to take resposibility. It’s our fault that you lied, cheated, and stole everything that you could? It’s our fault for giving you the opportunity to take our life’s savings. And if we try to stop you, you’re going to take our jobs and eat our lunch? If bullshit was music, you’d be a fucking brass band!

  117. Posted by Anirudh Singh | December 13, 2010 at 2:43 PM

    You weren’t a very good trader if you couldn’t see a bubble like this one coming right? You’ve totally missed out on the mistakes you made – you lied, sold the wrong stuff to the wrong people, read the market wrong and ultimately screwed up in your job. Whining now like a baby won’t help. You made mistakes – man up and take some responsibility. Getting as defensive as you are getting is the first step to crisis number two. Stop taking out your anger through these letters and figure out what you did wrong and how you can avert it the next time.

    Even a lion, if stupid, gets shot by the hunter at the end of the day.

  118. Posted by Asdfhjkg | September 16, 2010 at 9:37 PM

    You seem to be a very self-important and entitled person.

  119. Posted by yourawasteoflife | August 22, 2011 at 9:56 AM

    Cocky much?

  120. Posted by marydem | October 12, 2011 at 11:07 PM

    ha! like you'd have the cajones to run into a burning building like a firefighter, have the patience to teach 3rd graders, or lift anything heavier than a silver spoon. why, i bet you financial gurus would quit your first day of being a bank teller after dealing with the general public! get over yourselves.

  121. Posted by Boom | October 13, 2011 at 9:13 AM

    Classic. This arrogant prick imagines himself as a some kind of tough guy because he can hold his piss? Umm…. yeah, jerk, we can all do that. It doesn't make you a genius. It means you are potty trained.

  122. Posted by jimuh | October 13, 2011 at 10:12 AM

    Pathetic. Just pathetic.

  123. Posted by Jaime | October 13, 2011 at 10:56 AM

    the only word that really comes to mind is Tool, as in what a Tool.

  124. Posted by Ken | October 14, 2011 at 9:50 AM

    I teach grades K-6. Sign up for our sub list, come to my class, let's see how spectacular you really are. We can make this happen, let's do this thing.

  125. Posted by Lightning Joe | October 15, 2011 at 4:27 PM

    This is great. Like, every poor and Middle Class person in America will fall forever downward, without the weight of the Rich to support. Like we all rely on a day-trader's smarts, in order to continue eating.

    News: we continue eating because WE work for it and PRODUCE things. Let's cut the cr*p. WE are the producers, NOT the suits on Wall Street who TAKE what we PRODUCE and find ways to sell it for far more than we get for making it.

    They call this "calling around to raise the price" behavior "adding value" to the product. And in their heads, it is possible to raise prices this way indefinitely. This routine (for them) behavior puts goods out of the price range of Middle America. And now we see that they view this "price increasing" activity as a GOOD thing for the worker. Maybe they think that THIS is how they "create jobs."

    The so-called "Free Market" will in fact be a good deal "free-er" without all these hanger-on angle-workers riding on top of it.

  126. Posted by destroyer | October 21, 2011 at 10:23 PM

    I've scrubbed toilets and dug ditches, and I can guarantee you that work on Wall Street is much, much harder than any of that. Have you ever had to multiply three digit numbers in your head with a live phone in each ear, simultaneously yelling different languages at you? Also, if you screw up, you get fired. And, you don't get paid leave while a board reviews the situation. No? Then shut the fuck up.

  127. Posted by whythismanisright | October 28, 2011 at 2:59 PM

    trust me, the work as a prop/agency trader for a buldge bracket is much more difficult than the work as a teacher, landscaper, etc. That's why they only take the top 2.5% of applicants in terms of grades in each of their university programs. Were you top 2.5% and on top of that, able to work insane hours, and withstand huge amounts of pressure?

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