First off, let me start by putting this out there: Team Rebellion doesn’t need your money. As you can plainly see from the photo at left, if this whole hedge fund thing doesn’t work out, the principals can easily find work as a boy band. Having said that, they’re going to keep at this money biz a bit longer and would love to have you along for the ride. Here are the relevant details:
* The Rebels are like a teeny tiny RenTec, sans the Pall Malls.
* They use Artificial Intelligence to invest, being of the mind that computers = smart, man = stupid (“It’s pretty clear that human beings aren’t improving,” said Spencer Greenberg, 27 years old and the brains behind Rebellion’s AI system. “But computers and algorithms are only getting faster and more robust.”)
* You could try to do what they do at home, but you would most likely die.
“No human could do this,” said Michael Kearns, a computer-science professor at the University of Pennsylvania who has used AI to invest at firms such as Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. “Your head would blow off.”
* They have about $7 Million in AUM but have “struggled to raise money, in part because investors since the credit crisis are dubious of opaque math-based strategies.” (This is where you come in.)
* The founder, Spencer Greenberg, is the grandson of Hank Greenberg, the baseball player, not the old man with the dog.
* The other employees are Alexander Fleiss, Jeremy Newton, and Jonathan Sturges, who are not pulling their weight in the famous relatives department. (Fleiss’s background is in finance and math, Sturges has a master’s in music composition, and Newton is a mathematician who helped design the program.)
* Rebellion’s computer is nicknamed “Star,” which isn’t so great as nicknames go but if they can put you down for $100 million and an 8-year lock-up you could probably have a say in getting renamed T-bone or the Big Guy or something.
* If you’re nervous about putting all your money into the hands of a machine, don’t be. Fleiss was scared too until he learned to let go and love the bomb.
In early 2009, Star started to buy beaten-down stocks such as banks and insurers, which would benefit from a recovery. “He just loaded up on value stocks,” said Mr. Fleiss, referring to the AI program. The fund gained 41% in 2009, more than doubling the Dow’s 19% gain.
The firm’s current portfolio is largely defensive. One of its biggest positions is in gold stocks, according to people familiar with the fund.
The defensive move at first worried Mr. Fleiss, who had grown bullish. But it has proven a smart move so far. “I’ve learned not to question the AI,” he said.
* Similarly, if you’re skittish about trusting your money with a bunch of kids under the age of 28, relax. At least one of the principals can grow a beard:
Managing $7mm with 4 guys is the new killing it.
Beautiful minds.
I’d sign up for a autographed copy of that pic.
I prefer octopi and manatees as the vessels for my investing.
I realize this may be far flung, but what if someone sneaks into this Greenberg guy’s parent’s basement and steals Star?
So does Sturges provide all the musical scores to their Powerpoint Pitch Books? Helpful.
But what happens when star is confronted with the concept of love and smoke starts coming out of it and it explodes? That’s how these things always end.
Are these the dudes from Numb3rs?
LTCM 2
@8 – possible, they canceled that show -no? The guy from Taxi is their ops manager.
Who wants to be a Rebellionaire for a tag?
Lou Pearlman will be calling them soon to book a 200 city tour.
The only way Star can be stopped is with a direct hit to the thermal exhaust port with a proton torpedo.
Smart that they chose to shoot this in Greenberg’s apartment instead of their office so as to not reveal any trade secrets
key flaw is oxymoronic. no suny math majors
if you want to manage my money, wear a fucking tie
Impossible is nothing
they should have named the firm “Virgins Capital Management”
@4 – Octopodes
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_27/b3991043.htm
They have great PR. <$10mm in AUM, and written up in the Journal and Businessweek.
Maybe they could hire this guy. His parents have loads of money!
http://dealbreaker.com/2010/07/sending-out-an-sos-who-will-give-this-a-handoutjob/
This is just the beginning.
that dude’s side-part is seriously freaking me out.
could have also named it “Circle Jerk Capital”
@16 – agreed
What a bunch of puffy poofs.
wrrrrr click click chirp &*$#@ beeeeeep Star.
beepchirp!
ties are for long only idiots that can’t beat the market..
Best,
HF Guy That Hasn’t Received
“Sir, you can’t let him in here. He’ll see everything. He’ll see the big board!”
ties are for long only idiots that can’t beat the market..
Best,
HF Guy That Hasn’t Received a Bouns Since 2007
Hahaha… gold Bess. These d-bags look like a new indie band from New Hampshire.
In case any are interested in working at such a prestigious firm you may have to prove you’re a big fcking nerd with absolutely no friends in addition to completing the following quiz:
http://rebellionresearch.com/jobs.html
- guy who just got “it”, and will be returning to school to get his MA to start a HF after learning wtf a hash table is
@9 – Is that the movie where the cruise ship can’t drop below 50mph or else it blows up?
-Star
At least they can make rent on the 2 bedroom bunk bed apartment each month. Can you say the same?
Spencer,
I’m going to break into your mother’s apartment, where I will snack on delicious salt-induced and cavity-pinching snacks, before watching the LeBron James ESPN special four times in a row, at least. I will then proceed to the basement, where I’ll find Star nestled in a corner with her accompanying wires, chips, and that Dreamcast you never much enjoyed playing. I will pick the beautiful machine up, probably accidentally put a whole your dry-wall, and then proceed outside, where your bike with the basket is located. I’ll duct tape Star to the handlebars, remove the chain from your bike, and ghost-ride it to the Bronx. Star will then be auctioned off to the highest bidder at that check-cashing spot on Grand Concourse and 165th. It is there that she will live out her days before being sold on Ebay to someone more worthy of ownership, and less strict regarding work practices and coolant fans. You will know her by the trail of broken plastic.
-Jeff Macke
+6.6% gross average annual rate of return, only down 1/3 of the time, right?
@27! – I dare say. Such language.
…Yes I suppose it is befitting. But really quite a preposterous notion, don’t you think. I mean, the two of you aren’t even functionally compatible for such a coupling.
Must be cool when your lone investor is deceased.
where should I sent my resume?
thanks,
John Merriweather
They’re from Amherst… wonder if their recruiters target the Harvard Extension School.
they prob only have $200K and are levered 35:1…beware of the black swan!
@34 ror
I don’t know why exactly but I have palpable disdain for these guys! That is right – PALPABLE Disdain! (which, BTW, is a terrific name for their boy band when this whole IA thing blows up) “Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome to the Six Flags’ Correctional Officers Day, Palpable… Disssssss……. Daiiiiiinnnnnnnn”
@42 = hilarious…..perhaps they will open for Nelson?
Yea – I bet that defensive move into gold worked out really well.
This reminds me of the hedge fund strategy whereby you give a bottle of whiskey to your nephew, and tell him that for every correct commodity pick he makes, he takes one shot. I hear that PTJ has dominated this strategy since ’88.
great way to embarrass amherst
I hear they prime with Madoff Securities
@45 – Ha ha! Tradin’ drunk. Classic.
So they’re a hedge fund for the deaf?
Dude on the right definitely got that suit from Jos A
yeah how’d they finish dead last, they had a good year though.
wow the journal is really desperate for stories
@40 “Unlike the high-frequency funds that use artificial intelligence to aid rapid trading, Rebellion tends to hold stocks for long periods—on average four months but in some instances more than two years. It also doesn’t short stocks or use leverage, or borrowed money, which can amplify returns but also boost risks. “
N E R D S !
They would fit in beautifully at AQR. Sinking ship and all.
Rebellion Cap Mgmt: More Silicon Than South Beach
Still, they can’t touch HandBridge Cap Mgmt’s massive returns
@42 = Bill Simmons wannabee
@51 thanks Bess….can i leverage you?
The real benefit of Star is the AI in learning what type of porn you watch at what time of day. This will provide SEC employees with an optimal mix of explicit videos throughout the day. The elimination of productivity loss resulting from trying to log on to ladyboyjuice 3000 times a day will allow for significant time savings in which to watch more porn.
@50 – do you have the same one?
Well seems they have family in the business so hopefully the wisdom has flowed down.
@43 – If I told you once, I have told you a thousand times, It is Nelson first, THEN Puppet Show!
Serious q– how is it a hedge fund if you don’t go short or use leverage, i.e. “hedge”? Doesn’t that just make you an ordinary money manager/mutual fund?
Got to love that they found an *actual* Former Lehman Quant to provide a soundbite…
Let me know when Star beats Shia’s 4000%+ return, then we can talk.
Can you provide any color how they managed to put together $7mm AUM?
TIA!
@62, parents and family friends. They look like the waspy NE sort.
My logic is undeniable
Star: From now on I will be known as–
Kruger: KOKO THE MONKEY!
@60, going long gold is kind of like a short.
I imagine with $7 MM AUM, they could get one of those big bars like in Goldfinger.
Artificial intelligence is (artifical) and isn’t (intelligence).
And what value did “Bess Levin” add that I didn’t get from just reading the wsj article?
STAR – WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?
If granddad is Hank then dad is Steve, BSD banker at Allen & Co. Maybe they got to play in the kids section at Sun Valley this year.
@66 – if I were them, I would then trade it for an OddJob hat.
67 = Star, malfunctioning.
This is the locksmith? Finally. Spencer Greenberg, Rebellion Capital. Listen, the four of us principals came outside for a photo op, and we just realized… yeah. About ten minutes. Great.
@60 raises a fantastic point
@62 probably by starting with $10mm AUM
Got your mother in a whirl not sure of youre a boy or a nerd…you’ve torn your dress…
@69 hank had another son who is also a BSD
I want it thaaaattttttt way…..
@62 The musician dude played on the street for like, forever. The computer dudes joined forced with some Russian hackers, and looted some Florida bank accounts, and the goofball-esque one clearly knows how to “work hard for the money”. viola
“…who are not pulling their weight in the famous relatives department.”
Hmm, Fleiss. Wonder if his mom is…
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical of this entire premise at first, but then that Greenberg guy with the hip hairdo and facial hair used the word “infer” properly in his description of Star! I was impressed! Most would have opted for the oft mistaken “imply” right there! Gotta be Bright!! To whom do I make the check?
- Guy who oft mistakenly puts a lot of stock in english grammar usage in lieu of investing strategy and intelligence.
7 million x 2% divided by 4 guys: pulling in 35k a year! nice.
Shut the fuck up Kouw_analyst !!
That pic screams Trader Monthly circa 2007
@72 – Nicely done.
@82, before taxes. Talk about BSDs.
Their Office:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=350+East+54th+Street,+New+York,+NY&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=58.858685,71.982422&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=350+E+54th+St,+New+York,+10022&ll=40.756496,-73.964596&spn=0.000873,0.001098&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=40.756584,-73.964804&panoid=GomjuNQc1MrEd0sjEdHBNA&cbp=12,184.11,,0,6.25
That is so cute
@82 Plus performance.
@86 People making that kind of money don’t pay taxes.
1993 called. They want their technology back.
I swear the guy on the left works at the Starbucks in Rock Center.
@91 I think you are right. He cannot make a Macchiato worth $hit! Disgraceful!
@89- If they kill it with a 10% return they’re still looking at <50k/ea. after tax.
Sans expenses.
bess, looks like you held back the punches
- bring out the sleazy social dorm stories
- talk about how $8m of that $7m is mama fleiss’ money
- HEIDI FLEISS
So they opened with 2 million, went up 17% in 2007 and making 68k performance [17k + 35k management = 52k! middle class here we come.]
Then tanked 1.7m AUM, no performance in 08! back to 35k.
Then went up 41% in 09, back to 2.4 million, which puts them ~60k above their high watermark. So 3k in performance.
Then someone gave them another 5 million to play with. Super nice
Team REBELLION???
Woman: “Why does this dummy have a bucket on its head?”
Kramer: “Because we’re blind to their tyranny.”
Woman: “Then shouldn’t you be wearing the bucket?”
Kramer: “Yeah. Move along, Betty.”
George: “Why is the mailman wearing a bucket?”
Kramer: “Huh? Well, it symbolizes our persecution.”
George: “Then… shouldn’t you be wearing the bucket.”
@93 e-trade has free accounts and I keep seeing those bloomberg keyboards on ebay for ~150 bucks. That’s ought to cover the expenses.
@69 is awesome, amazed it took that long.
How about Global Thermo Nuclear Warefare?
@67: prob not that big a bar w $7mm AUM. If you figure a 10% allocation, at today’s closing spot that would buy you roughly 579 troy ounces, which works out to something like 39 1/2 lbs (avordupois). Given that the stuff weighs something like 19 grams per cubic centimeter, and there are approx. 453 grams in a pound, that gives you what, 941 cubic centimeters?
@99 you’re mad
100 bitches!
This is the funniest thing I’ve ever seen, comments and all. I’d give em some money, to wash my car and go get me lunch!
Given the vast responses, I would suggest not using this site as an outlet to raise capital.
@100 Jawohl meine… {cough} Mr. President!
I’d rather make 50k working for myself than 100k being t-bagged by some middle management douche from 8 to 8 every day.
@104
That sorta thing happens all the time @ UBS, no big deal
unless those are ruffles on that shirt, you can forget the tie and buy an iron…wtf? clowns.
@104 – shouldn’t be hard to do: assume you “work” 48 weeks a year trading s&p-minis (day trading, not just for the 80′s). based on that workload, your bogey is $1,042 per week ($208 per day). you would be able to trade 5 contracts with as little as $30k in your account (daddy could spot you seed capital). now, your job should you choose to accept it, is to capture a 1 point move ($250) each day. go get ‘em tiger!
@106
Yup dad is rich and I have no clue how to trade futures.
Oranje, CFA
The real question remains: is Star capable of defeating Paul the Octopus?
- Jim Simons’ TA
Minute 2.52
A copy of Ben Graham´s “The Intelligent Investor” on the desk,
Not the standard text book for Quants,
I suspect “Investing for dummies” is underneath it.
And “Ripping off Bernie´s way” underneath it.
-Guy who cried when Justin left N´Sync
http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/current/news/view.php?year=2003-2004&issue=05§ion=news&article=01
@110 guys at my college got beat up by ninjas all the time. It was no big deal.
A fellow fresh out of the PhD progam @ Stanford just claimed at the Jeffries emerging managers conference that (viz. his AI models implemented in a Palo Alto HF where he runs 7 bucks) MPT states diversification will generate lower risk AND HIGHER RETURN. These AI guys never fail to amaze me…
You just got your asses WHIPPED…by a bunch of God Damned nerds…NERDS!
Why has nobody pointed out that it’s nonsensical to compare their performance with the Dow?
Substitute in the S&P and their strategy has underperformed over the entire period.
The program looks at all stocks as possible investments; it should not be benchmarked to the Dow 30.
@114 – because nobody takes these guys seriously to begin with. Insecure much? Just kidding. No, really. Or not. Just kidding.
they got beat up by a bunch of asians? in amherst?
wasn’t this the whole premise of the movie pi? A crazy jew inventing a computer program that can predict the markets based on AI/Kaballah/Quantum Mecahnics/Nerd Juice. All Greenberg needs is a mirror and drill and he’s alllll set!
I bet Hammerin Hank’s rolling in his grave.
@31
I am a finance guy who’s done some financial software development. Looking over the first question on that interview sheet (about the hashtable, etc.), it’s got an elementary and glaring flaw that’s obvious even to me–and I’m neither a great programmer nor a great finance guy.
One should never EVER store currency values (i.e., prices) as floating point values, as floating point values cannot be represented exactly in binary–which leads to rounding errors and unpredictable results on different systems. Yikes.
we know bess went easy on them because one dude went to Amherst. they even have an office there – the brass plate on the door said so.
its kinda like the guys who take the C-list interns from their alma matter every summer, hoping to secure a place for their own snot nosed kids.
Thanks @118!!!
Pulling my money out as we speak
Jean-Marie Eveillard
the guy with the spiffy blue blazer with gold buttons writing on the chalk board
All they use are Macs, nice. Not a bberg among them. must be a holdover from the college days.
“Rebellion has a solid track record, topping the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index by an average of 10% a year, after fees, since its 2007 launch through June, according to people familiar with the fund.”
Isn’t that about 1% annualized?
Ok, maybe I was a bit too harsh. Under some circumstances, floating point may be appropriate in extreme performance cases where rounding issues aren’t relevant. But in general, arbitrary precision arithmetic is far less likely to get you into unexpected rounding trouble when doing lots of operations on currency amounts such as prices.
only rebutt to this crap is —-LTCM—– SO ITS ALREADY BEEN KIND OF DONE, AND AI OR NOT THE MARKET IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE MESSED WITH.
HAL: I’m sorry Bro, I’m afraid I can’t let you do that.
AF: Brobot, it’s cool, I’m cool with that.
HAL: Nice to see you appreciate my brogramming.
@everyone above, you’re jealous b/c you can’t do much on a computer besides add and subtract in Excel and write anonymous negative comments on a blog.
“Star” is actually a playstation
so they are using computers to do the trading …
hmmm …
pretty f***ing great idea …
who would have thought of that!
and AI , now that is pure genius …
@127 is furiously googling to find the answers for http://rebellionresearch.com/jobs.html
And my comments aren’t anonymous.
@127 You’re wrong. We are all adept at surfing pr0n and shooting Korean 12-year olds in the face with a Desert Eagle under simulation. Those are the only two truly worthwhile uses for computers.
@126 – you’ve been iced!
@127, your mastery of the english language is amazing.
According to http://www.hedgeweb.net their total return since inception in 2007 (the return in 2007 was only 2% not 17% as mentioned in the WSJ) is minus 8.03 percent and their YTD result is minus 13%. The average monthly return is minus 0.01% and their largest drawdown since Jan. 2007 was 44% !
They really must have some good connections to be mentioned in the WSJ with a performance record like that.
However, they actually did outperform the S&P slightly since 2007, but others achieved that as well without the use of any form of Artificial Intelligence.
@123 Compounded Annual Return is actual minus 2.36% since 2007.
Greenberg aka son of glenn greenberg PM of 4 billion Chieftain Capital.
After seeing that interview, I’m taking my money out.
Chimp city
Why am I not finding Rebellion Research on Hedgeweb? Are they in there under a different name?
The person above who struggled to come up with the theory that floating point numbers shouldn’t be used because of rounding errors… please carefully step away from your keyboard.
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