MW’s Carson Block: It’s a Ponzi scheme in that the company perpetually issues securities in order to fund itself. Even by its own fraudulent numbers, the company does not generate any free cash and has not done so in sixteen years. Were the company be unable to issue additional securities to fund itself, it would collapse. That to me is the definition or epitomizes the definition of a Ponzi. “In this situation, the company appears to be investing for the 23rd century. It’s sixteen straight years burning cash, no guidance as to what the rationale is to acquire so many trees so far ahead of customer orders. This is taking a capex fraud–we have found several of these in China–it’s taking it to the next level where you’re not constrained by the walls of a factory and no one is able to really see the movement of physical goods. It could grow to be infinite provided that the capital markets continue to fund it.”

99 comments (hidden to protect delicate sensibilities)
Show all comments ↓

Comments (99)

  1. Posted by NakedShort | June 6, 2011 at 3:03 PM

    Other than that does he have any concerns?

  2. Posted by NakedShort | June 6, 2011 at 3:03 PM

    Other than that does he have any concerns?

  3. Posted by HFguy | June 6, 2011 at 3:16 PM

    Oh.. how the might have fallen….

    in another note.. If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one around, does it make a noise?

  4. Posted by HFguy | June 6, 2011 at 3:16 PM

    Oh.. how the might have fallen….

    in another note.. If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one around, does it make a noise?

  5. Posted by Texashedge | June 6, 2011 at 3:22 PM

    So just buy Jan 2200 calls?

  6. Posted by Texashedge | June 6, 2011 at 3:22 PM

    So just buy Jan 2200 calls?

  7. Posted by Paco | June 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM

    Sí, no Forest ese-BNP Paribas Equity Analyst

  8. Posted by Paco | June 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM

    Sí, no Forest ese-BNP Paribas Equity Analyst

  9. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM

    I salute Carson Block for his good work.

    But Sino Forest is no different to many dotcom stocks during the go-go days. None of them generated any cash flows and they all promised their investors riches 12 months down the line, 12 months down the line, and 12 months down the line……………………………………….

  10. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM

    I salute Carson Block for his good work.

    But Sino Forest is no different to many dotcom stocks during the go-go days. None of them generated any cash flows and they all promised their investors riches 12 months down the line, 12 months down the line, and 12 months down the line……………………………………….

  11. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 3:25 PM

    If the forest doesn’t have trees and nobody has seen the forest is it a forest?    

  12. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 3:25 PM

    If the forest doesn’t have trees and nobody has seen the forest is it a forest?    

  13. Posted by Lord Jewmongous | June 6, 2011 at 3:30 PM

    Can I front end load your back end?

  14. Posted by Lord Jewmongous | June 6, 2011 at 3:30 PM

    Can I front end load your back end?

  15. Posted by Guess | June 6, 2011 at 3:35 PM

    Do you know the difference between an unprofitable business and a fraud? It seems like you don’t.

  16. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 3:38 PM

    Where’s the Dykstra update???

  17. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 3:38 PM

    Where’s the Dykstra update???

  18. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 3:46 PM

    Why don’t you enlighten me? You have any solid evidence that Sino-Forest is a fraud?

    BTW, don’t quote from the Muddy Water report you cocksucker.

    The Guest above you

  19. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 3:46 PM

    Why don’t you enlighten me? You have any solid evidence that Sino-Forest is a fraud?

    BTW, don’t quote from the Muddy Water report you cocksucker.

    The Guest above you

  20. Posted by Brian1284 | June 6, 2011 at 4:06 PM

    Groupon is running a UTA special on fall foliage trips to the Sino-Forest.  I picked up a dozen. 

    -guy who doesnt read financials-

  21. Posted by Brian1284 | June 6, 2011 at 4:06 PM

    Groupon is running a UTA special on fall foliage trips to the Sino-Forest.  I picked up a dozen. 

    -guy who doesnt read financials-

  22. Posted by Brianwhite10128 | June 6, 2011 at 4:09 PM

    pmco you goig to weigh in?

  23. Posted by Brianwhite10128 | June 6, 2011 at 4:09 PM

    pmco you goig to weigh in?

  24. Posted by Guess | June 6, 2011 at 4:13 PM

    Calling me a cocksucker AND preemptively excluding the MW report’s relevance? You are a master of rhetoric.

  25. Posted by Guess | June 6, 2011 at 4:13 PM

    Calling me a cocksucker AND preemptively excluding the MW report’s relevance? You are a master of rhetoric.

  26. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 4:29 PM

    The fact that John Paulson lost $500 million dollar proves that he´s truly not that genius media is telling us, since his mastermind Paolo Pellegrini left his firm, Paulson tries to handle and fix the risk. But he´s only above-averaging, not “godlike”.

    The time will come when John Paulson must close one of his crashed funds, you´ll see…

    Do you know where he started his career ? You guess at a Bulge Bracket ?

    Simply wrong, he did it at BCG…

  27. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 4:29 PM

    The fact that John Paulson lost $500 million dollar proves that he´s truly not that genius media is telling us, since his mastermind Paolo Pellegrini left his firm, Paulson tries to handle and fix the risk. But he´s only above-averaging, not “godlike”.

    The time will come when John Paulson must close one of his crashed funds, you´ll see…

    Do you know where he started his career ? You guess at a Bulge Bracket ?

    Simply wrong, he did it at BCG…

  28. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 4:32 PM

    Paulson will lose more money this year. He´s not a trader, he started his career at BCG, he better quit HF-business to found a PE-firm or Consulting group

  29. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 4:32 PM

    Paulson will lose more money this year. He´s not a trader, he started his career at BCG, he better quit HF-business to found a PE-firm or Consulting group

  30. Posted by trojan | June 6, 2011 at 4:58 PM

    “Hey! If one of you falls in the forest, do you make a sound?”
    “Are you kidding? Steve fell down the other day and he hasn’t shut up about it since.”

  31. Posted by Leroy the Masochist | June 6, 2011 at 5:04 PM

    Engrish FAIL.

  32. Posted by Paco | June 6, 2011 at 5:05 PM

    Jealous much?

  33. Posted by Paco | June 6, 2011 at 5:05 PM

    Jealous much?

  34. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 5:05 PM

    Go back to zero hedge.

  35. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 5:06 PM

    “you’ll see”

    LOL.

  36. Posted by SRH | June 6, 2011 at 5:06 PM

    go sell crazy somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.

  37. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 5:06 PM

    No one was listening to your insane ramblings the first time you left them- take a hint.

  38. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 5:07 PM

    Free cash? Who cares about free cash?  My company NEVER throws off free cash yet I still have people lining up at the doors to give me money.

    -Timmy

  39. Posted by Paco | June 6, 2011 at 5:10 PM

    I’m sure he has enough money to just retire and enjoy life at this point.

    What is with all the pissy, jealous commentariat today?

  40. Posted by guest | June 6, 2011 at 5:16 PM

    There was a big mixup.  JP loves him some bar games.  He told his analysts, go invest in Golden Tee.  They thought he said “gold and trees”. 

  41. Posted by Anonymous | June 6, 2011 at 5:32 PM

    English much speak?

  42. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 5:46 PM

    Lenny is that you?

  43. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 5:52 PM

    Father forgive them, for they know not what they do

  44. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 5:56 PM

    Dyslexia, chronic idiocy.
    And always fuck, cock, sucker.

    I stay on Elitetraders…

  45. Posted by Anonymous | June 6, 2011 at 5:58 PM

    Nope. I got too much work to do today. xoxo

  46. Posted by UBSsucksguy | June 6, 2011 at 6:00 PM

    John Paulson lost $500 million in chinese fraud company

    LOL

  47. Posted by CS | June 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM

    SINO FOREST——————–>SEE NO FOREST 

    Wow, big surprise

    Congratulations John

  48. Posted by Your You're Yore | June 6, 2011 at 6:31 PM

    Don’t for get to work me into the work.

  49. Posted by Your You're Yore | June 6, 2011 at 6:33 PM

    …and by for get, I mean forget.

  50. Posted by Lord Humongous | June 6, 2011 at 6:38 PM

    There’s only enough room on this board for one of us bub

  51. Posted by Guest | June 6, 2011 at 9:18 PM

    I posta on da dearbreaka today anda everyrona maka fun of me.

  52. Posted by Anal_ist | June 6, 2011 at 11:27 PM

    All you fucktard investors kept giving me 10’s of billions. Do you think I have time to waste worrying about a few hundred million, bitches? Go bother Falcone.
    Peace,
    JP

  53. Posted by upstate guest | June 6, 2011 at 11:56 PM

    carson block’s credential are tenuous at best, i’m pretty sure he’s a disbarred lawyer . he’s a corporate shakedown artist in the same mold as al sharpton or jesse Jackson.  he approaches copany xyz and says I can write one of two report…you can pay me to write the good kind or i’ll short you and i’ll write the bad kind.  his father’s company wab capital did the same thing.  like father like son.  i’m somewhere between hoping he’s indicted on securities fraud by the sec or disappears in mainland china.  he’s a slimly little cock sucker.

  54. Posted by Anal_ist | June 7, 2011 at 1:05 AM

    He may be “slimly.” And, he may try to extort companies, but it appears he has been right a few times.

  55. Posted by HFguy | June 7, 2011 at 1:52 PM

    so true.. amen

  56. Posted by cheap seo services | September 10, 2012 at 3:24 PM

    tvV1XO Fantastic blog.Much thanks again. Keep writing.

  57. Posted by Vania Vintimilla | September 19, 2012 at 8:40 PM

    **As noticed in Apple’s “What’s Hot” element!**

  58. Posted by Laurena Tix | September 22, 2012 at 12:22 AM

    I really like what you have acquired here, certainly like what you are stating and the way in which you say it.

  59. Posted by Personal Loans | September 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM

    Hello, Neat post. There is a problem with your web site in web explorer, may check this… IE nonetheless is the market chief and a huge portion of folks will miss your great writing due to this problem.

  60. Posted by suck my cock | September 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM

    We are a bunch of volunteers and opening a new scheme in our community. Your site offered us with valuable info to paintings on. You have done an impressive process and our entire group will probably be thankful to you.

  61. Posted by odszkodowanie uk | September 25, 2012 at 5:11 AM

    I in addition to my buddies happened to be digesting the exceptional points located taking place your internet internet situate and then every one of of the impulsive I had an terrible hunch I in no way articulated admire to the site vendor for them. Every the men were wholly excited to recite via them and have at this moment in legitimacy been having enjoyable with them. Show gratitude you for rightly heart indeed nice and next representing obtaining this kind of exceptional beneficial guides countless people are especially threatening to identify concerning. My truthful compunction representing not expressing appreciation to earlier.

  62. Posted by Porfirio Mongon | September 25, 2012 at 8:12 AM

    I really enjoy examining on this website, it holds superb content. “A short saying oft contains much wisdom.” by Sophocles.

  63. Posted by Bruce Grove Escorts | September 25, 2012 at 9:35 AM

    Thank you for each of your effort on this website. My mother enjoys setting aside time for research and it is obvious why. Many of us know all concerning the powerful tactic you create great tricks on this website and as well recommend response from the others on the area of interest so my daughter is certainly being taught so much. Take pleasure in the remaining portion of the year. You are always performing a first class job.

  64. Posted by hyip investment | September 27, 2012 at 3:25 AM

    hey there and thank you for your info – I have certainly picked up anything new from right here. I did however expertise a few technical points using this website, since I experienced to reload the web site many times previous to I could get it to load correctly. I had been wondering if your hosting is OK? Not that I’m complaining, but sluggish loading instances times will often affect your placement in google and could damage your high quality score if advertising and marketing with Adwords. Anyway I’m adding this RSS to my email and could look out for a lot more of your respective interesting content. Make sure you update this again soon..

  65. Posted by Lianne Boeckmann | September 27, 2012 at 3:27 AM

    Generally I do not read article on blogs, but I wish to say that this write-up very forced me to check out and do so! Your writing style has been amazed me. Thank you, quite great article.

  66. Posted by Marcel Heathcock | September 27, 2012 at 1:57 PM

    Very good details is often discovered on this website website.

  67. Posted by important site | September 28, 2012 at 8:41 PM

    I like the valuable information you provide in your articles. Iíll bookmark your weblog and check again here frequently. I am quite sure Iíll learn lots of new stuff right here! Best of luck for the next!

  68. Posted by komputery kraków | September 30, 2012 at 6:25 PM

    Excellent post. I was checking constantly this blog and I’m impressed! Extremely useful info specially the last part :) I care for such info much. I was seeking this certain information for a long time. Thank you and best of luck.

  69. Posted by baby photography | September 30, 2012 at 10:52 PM

    My spouse and i were really thankful that Edward managed to do his research using the ideas he discovered out of the blog. It is now and again perplexing just to possibly be handing out helpful hints that many many others may have been selling. Therefore we recognize we’ve got the blog owner to thank for that. These explanations you made, the easy blog menu, the relationships you can aid to instill – it’s got many extraordinary, and it is making our son in addition to our family reckon that that situation is enjoyable, which is extremely pressing. Many thanks for all!

  70. Posted by Samual Mighty | October 2, 2012 at 6:35 PM

    What i do not realize is actually how you’re no longer really much more smartly-appreciated than you may be now. You are so intelligent. You understand thus considerably in relation to this matter, produced me in my view believe it from numerous various angles. Its like women and men don’t seem to be involved until it’s something to do with Girl gaga! Your own stuffs nice. All the time deal with it up!

  71. Posted by noclegi | October 4, 2012 at 7:27 AM

    I carry on listening to the rumor speak about getting boundless online grant applications so I have been looking around for the most excellent site to get one. Could you tell me please, where could i get some?

  72. Posted by Brendon Byerley | October 4, 2012 at 11:33 PM

    I liked as much as you will receive carried out proper here. The cartoon is attractive, your authored material stylish. nevertheless, you command get bought an impatience over that you wish be delivering the following. sick definitely come further in the past once more since precisely the similar just about very steadily inside case you protect this hike.

  73. Posted by Shon Allsup | October 5, 2012 at 3:13 PM

    I and also my guys were checking out the great secrets found on your web blog while instantly I got an awful feeling I had not expressed respect to the web blog owner for them. Most of the men are already for this reason stimulated to study them and have now truly been taking pleasure in those things. I appreciate you for simply being indeed helpful and for making a decision on such smart useful guides most people are really wanting to be aware of. My sincere apologies for not saying thanks to you earlier.

  74. Posted by rss feed eintragen | October 7, 2012 at 12:16 AM

    Rss Feeds suchen, finden und eintragen !

  75. Posted by pozycjonowanie strony internetowej | October 7, 2012 at 6:16 AM

    Thanks a lot for sharing this with all people you really know what you are talking approximately! Bookmarked. Please also seek advice from my web site =). We could have a link trade arrangement between us!

  76. Posted by Rico Wehling | October 7, 2012 at 6:34 AM

    It’s the best time to make some plans for the future and it’s time to be happy. I have learn this publish and if I could I desire to counsel you some interesting things or suggestions. Maybe you could write subsequent articles regarding this article. I wish to learn more things approximately it!

  77. Posted by Betclic | October 7, 2012 at 11:05 AM

    Very well written information. It will be supportive to everyone who employess it, as well as yours truly :). Keep up the good work – can’r wait to read more posts.

  78. Posted by apartament warszawa | October 7, 2012 at 7:29 PM

    Thank you, I have just been looking for info about this subject for ages and yours is the greatest I’ve came upon till now. But, what concerning the bottom line? Are you certain about the source?

  79. Posted by mobile marketing made easy | October 8, 2012 at 3:13 AM

    I was able to find some information regarding mobile phone marketing that my people might be interested about. Thanks for this.

  80. Posted by Krakow Quads | October 8, 2012 at 5:41 AM

    Good site! I really love how it is easy on my eyes and the data are well written. I am wondering how I could be notified when a new post has been made. I’ve subscribed to your RSS feed which must do the trick! Have a nice day!

  81. Posted by Jospeh Crafts | October 8, 2012 at 10:52 AM

    Enjoyed examining this, very good stuff, appreciate it. “It requires more courage to suffer than to die.” by Napoleon Bonaparte.

  82. Posted by green coffee beans | October 8, 2012 at 6:12 PM

    Good way of important, and fine clause to acquire information regarding my presentation focus, which i am free to deliver in academy.

  83. Posted by single männer | October 9, 2012 at 7:36 AM

    Thanks so much for providing individuals with a very terrific opportunity to discover important secrets from here. It really is so fantastic and stuffed with a great time for me and my office peers to search the blog at a minimum 3 times weekly to find out the newest tips you will have. And indeed, I am usually contented considering the perfect creative concepts you serve. Some 1 ideas in this posting are undeniably the very best we have all ever had.

  84. Posted by Louetta Esquerre | October 10, 2012 at 4:58 AM

    Thank you a lot for providing individuals with an extraordinarily wonderful possiblity to read critical reviews from this website. It’s usually so kind and as well , full of fun for me and my office mates to search your blog really thrice in 7 days to study the new items you will have. Of course, we are certainly amazed concerning the incredible points served by you. Certain two facts on this page are really the finest I’ve had.

  85. Posted by Mahala | October 10, 2012 at 8:29 AM

    There are some fascinating points in time on this article however I don’t know if I see all of them middle to heart. There’s some validity but I’ll take maintain opinion until I look into it further. Good article , thanks and we would like extra! Added to FeedBurner as effectively

  86. Posted by offshore investment | October 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM

    I have been browsing on-line more than 3 hours today, but I by no means discovered any attention-grabbing article like yours. It¡¦s pretty worth sufficient for me. In my opinion, if all site owners and bloggers made excellent content as you probably did, the net will likely be much more helpful than ever before.

  87. Posted by Uporly1971 | October 12, 2012 at 1:12 PM

    Hello, cool website awesome contents, keep posting more will be visiting on every once in a while, again thanks

  88. Posted by website dating | October 13, 2012 at 10:25 AM

    Thank you for sharing superb informations. Your web site is very cool. I’m impressed by the details that you have on this blog. It reveals how nicely you understand this subject. Bookmarked this website page, will come back for extra articles. You, my friend, ROCK! I found just the information I already searched all over the place and just could not come across. What a great website.

  89. Posted by noclegi warszawa | October 13, 2012 at 5:23 PM

    Hello, Neat post. There is an issue together with your site in web explorer, could test thisˇK IE nonetheless is the market chief and a huge part of people will leave out your great writing because of this problem.

  90. Posted by rear wheel horsepower to flywheel horsepower calculator | October 14, 2012 at 10:21 AM

    The only possible conclusion that social sciences can draw is some do, some don’t.

  91. Posted by Shara | October 15, 2012 at 4:23 AM

    That is the best weblog for anybody who desires to seek out out about this topic. You understand so much its virtually arduous to argue with you (not that I actually would need…HaHa). You positively put a brand new spin on a subject thats been written about for years. Nice stuff, just nice!

  92. Posted by jasa seo | October 15, 2012 at 8:28 AM

    Real nice design and style and excellent subject material , very little else we require : D.

  93. Posted by Emlynn | October 16, 2012 at 3:36 AM

    Youre so cool! I dont suppose Ive read something like this before. So nice to search out any person with some unique thoughts on this subject. realy thanks for starting this up. this website is something that is needed on the net, somebody with somewhat originality. useful job for bringing one thing new to the internet!

  94. Posted by kosmetyka łodzi | October 16, 2012 at 12:08 PM

    Terrific paintings! This is the kind of information that are meant to be shared around the web. Shame on the search engines for no longer positioning this put up higher! Come on over and seek advice from my web site . Thank you =)

  95. Posted by Cassy | October 16, 2012 at 12:36 PM

    I used to be very pleased to seek out this web-site.I needed to thanks to your time for this excellent read!! I positively having fun with every little bit of it and I have you bookmarked to take a look at new stuff you weblog post.

  96. Posted by Roslyn | October 16, 2012 at 2:22 PM

    That is the right blog for anybody who wants to find out about this topic. You understand so much its virtually hard to argue with you (not that I truly would need…HaHa). You definitely put a brand new spin on a topic thats been written about for years. Nice stuff, simply great!

  97. Posted by Nichol Espree | October 16, 2012 at 5:15 PM

    Simply a smiling visitant here to share the love (:, btw outstanding style and design. “Individuals may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.” by Benjamin Disraeli.

  98. Posted by Read Far more | October 16, 2012 at 10:16 PM

    I was curious if you ever considered changing the structure of your blog? Its very well written; I love what youve got to say. But maybe you could a little more in the way of content so people could connect with it better. Youve got an awful lot of text for only having one or 2 images. Maybe you could space it out better?

  99. Posted by alat bantu sex | October 5, 2013 at 4:37 AM

    Great design for it and i hope we can suecess do more