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Guys Who Manages Family’s Money Takes Page From JPMorgan Don Juan’s Playabook

Yesterday afternoon, we met David Gray, a JPMorgan investment banker whose love interest had yet to come around to why they should be together, despite his 1,983 text and emails (over 16 hours), among other romantic gestures, stating as much. Oddly, some people thought that Gray’s decision to, for instance, install a tracking device in his [fingers crossed, it could still happen] future wife’s phone went a bit too far. Said people included the object of his affection, Daniela, her family, the police, who granted her a restraining order against him, and the Internet. Right about now, despite knowing in his heart he’s done–and will continue to do?– the right thing, David is likely feeling a bit alienated by those who just don’t get it, or him. Know who might? A guy named Mike.

Mike recently went out on a date with a woman named Lauren. According to Mike, things went pretty great, as evidenced by the fact that 1) She played with her hair a lot (sayeth Mike: “A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I’ve never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn’t look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.”) and 2) “On a per-minute basis,” he’s never had as much eye-contact during a date as he did with her. Did Lauren say “It was nice to meet you” at the end of things? Yes, and Mike is willing to concede that sometimes that’s a sign of a woman not being interested and rule it as being “inconclusive.” Having said that, all in all, he was pretty sure the signals had more than been put out that a second date and perhaps a serious relationship were on tap.

And yet, Lauren didn’t respond to any of his calls and follow-up texts. Why was that the case? Mike didn’t know, because, as previously stated, someone whose name rhymes with Whoren never got back to him. And while we can spend some time theorizing about the various reasons, before rejecting them as invalid– (A. Occupation: Sayeth Mike, “Perhaps, you’re unimpressed that I manage my family’s investments and my own investments. Perhaps, you don’t think I have a ‘real’ job. Well, I’ve done very well as an investment manager. I’ve made my parents several millions of dollars. That’s real money. That’s not monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it’s a real job. Donald Trump’s children work for his company. Do they have ‘real’ jobs? I think so. George Soros’s sons help manage their family investments. Do they have ‘real’ jobs? I think so.” B. Physical attraction: Sayeth Mike again, “I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn’t find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date. You already knew what I looked like before our date.”)- Mike knew that there was only one person, whose name rhymes with Big Fucking Whoren, that could answer that question.

Furthermore, despite admittedly finding Lauren “less appealing now,” in the aftermath of No Response-Gate, Mike was still willing to set that aside in order to get the 30 Year Plan he jotted down on a napkin while Lauren was in the bathroom during their first date back on track. (All great relationships get rocky at some point and besides, this would be a good story to tell Lauren and Mikey Jr. one day. What, you’re not a fan of generational suffixes? I knew you’d fight me on that one. That’s so us, to argue over something like this.) And so, after doing a Google search to find Lauren’s email address, fired off the following:

Hi Lauren,

I’m disappointed in you. I’m disappointed that I haven’t gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.

FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can’t see someone’s body language or tone of voice in an email. I’m not trying to be harsh, patronizing, or insulting in this email. I’m honest and direct by nature, and I’m going to be that way in this email. By the way, I did a google search, so that’s how I came across your email.

I assume that you no longer want to go out with me. (If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know.) I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.

Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to, the following:

-You played with your hair a lot. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I’ve never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn’t look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.

-We had lots of eye contact during our date. On a per-minute basis, I’ve never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.

-You said, “It was nice to meet you.” at the end of our date. A woman could say this statement as a way to show that she isn’t interested in seeing a man again or she could mean what she said–that it was nice to meet you. The statement, by itself, is inconclusive.

-We had a nice conversation over dinner. I don’t think I’m being delusional in saying this statement.

In my opinion, leading someone on (i.e., giving mixed signals) is impolite and immature. It’s bad to do that.

Normally, I would not be asking for information if a woman and I don’t go out again after a first date. However, in our case, I’m curious because I think our date went well and that there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship. Of course, it’s difficult to predict what would happen, but I think there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship developing between us one day (or least there was before your non-response to my voicemail and text messages).

I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.

Why am I writing you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again. Even if we don’t, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you. In addition, even if you don’t want to go out again, I would like to get feedback as to why you wouldn’t want to go again. Normally, I wouldn’t ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential.

If you don’t want to go again, then apparently you didn’t think our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It’s good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date.

If you’re not interested in going out again, then I would have preferred if you hadn’t given those mixed signals. I feel led on. We have a number of things in common. I’ll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I’m in a relationship is a liking of classical music. I wouldn’t be seriously involved with a woman if she didn’t like classical music. You said that you’re planning to go the NY Philharmonic more often in the future. As I said, I go to the NY Philharmonic often. You’re very busy. It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests. We already go to classical music performances by ourselves. If we go to classical music performances together, it wouldn’t take any significant additional time on your part. According to the internet, you’re 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we’re a good match in terms of age. I could name more things that we have in common, but I’ll stop here. I don’t understand why you apparently don’t want to go out with me again. We have numerous things in common. I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn’t find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date. You already knew what I looked like before our date. Perhaps, you’re unimpressed that I manage my family’s investments and my own investments. Perhaps, you don’t think I have a “real” job. Well, I’ve done very well as an investment manager. I’ve made my parents several millions of dollars. That’s real money. That’s not monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it’s a real job. Donald Trump’s children work for his company. Do they have “real” jobs? I think so. George Soros’s sons help manage their family investments. Do they have “real” jobs? I think so. In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer. That’s a unique characteristic; most people aren’t like that. I’ve never been as disappointed and sad about having difficulty about getting a second date as I am with you. I’ve gone out with a lot of women in my life. (FYI, I’m not a serial dater. Sometimes, I’ve only gone out with a woman for one date.) People don’t grow on trees. I hope you appreciate the potential we have.

Am I sensitive person? Sure, I am. I think it’s better to be sensitive than to be insensitive. There are too many impolite, insensitive people in the world.

I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens. Needless to say, I find you less appealing now** (given that you haven’t returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I’m open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too. If you don’t want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life. If you don’t want to go out again, then you should have called to tell me so. Even sending a text message would have been better than nothing. In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive, and cowardly. I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in response to my messages would have been a reasonable thing for you to do. In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.

If you’re concerned that you will hurt my feelings by providing specific information about why you don’t want to go with me again, well, my feeling are already hurt. I’m sad and disappointed about this situation. If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better. I might even learn something that is beneficial.

If you don’t want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (i.e., giving me mixed signals). In my opinion, you shouldn’t act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It’s bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you’re not interested in going out with me again. I have tried to write this email well, but it’s not perfect. Again, I’m not trying to be harsh, insulting, patronizing, etc. I’m disappointed, sad, etc. I would like to talk to you on the phone. I hope you will call me back at xxx-xxx-xxxx> (if it’s inconvenient for you to talk on the phone when you read this email, you can let me know via email that you are willing to talk on the phone and I’ll call you). If you get my voicemail, you can a leave a message and I can call you back. Even if you don’t want to go out again, I would appreciate it if you give me the courtesy of calling me and talking to me. Yes, you might say things that hurt me, but my feelings are already hurt. Sending me an email response (instead of talking on the phone) would better than no response at all, but I think it would be better to talk on the phone. Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc.

Best, Mike

It’s unclear if Lauren has gotten back to him yet, but in the event she hasn’t, what’s obvious here is that David and Mike ought to sit down and bounce some ideas off of each other vis-a-vis getting their girls. They’ve done pretty good jobs on their own, but the two of them working together, at full capacity, would be unstoppable. Make haste- there’s much work to be done.

New York Investment Banker Sends 1,615 Word Email Re: You Leading Him On During Your Date Together [NYO]

**Sorry if that came off as harsh but if you’re really going to make a go of this total honesty is key.

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124 Responses to “Guys Who Manages Family’s Money Takes Page From JPMorgan Don Juan’s Playabook”

  1. Fixed Income says:

    The letter has been altered. The charts were removed and it was actually signed by a guy named Matt.

    • guest says:

      I know guys like this..They just don't have any clue how to attract women… My best advice for them is to go get a hot Russian mail order bride… Trying to land a woman in NYC is a huge obstacle for them and leads them to write desparate wall of text emails..

      • 2_Small_2_Bail says:

        Tried that…now I'm in Supreme Court trying to recreate the wedding so I have more JO & C material. Love, it's a motherfucker, eh?

        -Todd R

  2. Guest says:

    He didn't sign it "Love, Mike". Other than that I have no concerns.

    – Hopeless Romantic

  3. Guesticulate says:

    Am I sensitive person? Sure, I am. I think it’s better to be sensitive than to be insensitive. There are too many impolite, insensitive people in the world.

    This means run, Lauren. RUN!

  4. IgnorantBastards says:

    could you ask your webmaster to add a button that scrolls down automatically to the bottom of an article longer than a few lines?

  5. DingALing says:

    This guy and Europe should sit down and bounce some ideas off each other. Both are in denial and their situations will probably end the same: alone and depressed.

    • guest says:

      probably?

      so you're saying there's a chance…

    • trojan_ says:

      Hi, Nikki, this is Mike again. I just called cuz it sounded like your machine might've cut me off when I, before I finished leaving my number. Anyway, uh, and, y'know, and also, sorry to call so late, but you were still at the Dresden when I left so I knew I'd get your machine. Anyhow, uh, my number's 21 –
      …..
      213-555-4679. That's it. I just wanna leave my number. I didn't want you to think I was weird or desperate, or… we should just hang out and see where it goes cuz it's nice and, y'know, no expectations. Ok? Thanks a lot. Bye bye.

  6. Guesto says:

    Repost Comment From Me Yesterday: This is my favorite kind of Dealbreaker

  7. M. Gibson says:

    Pussy.

  8. Gripster says:

    Mike is soon to break it off with that Bloomingdales mannqeuin that couldn't stop staring at him

  9. PermaGuestII says:

    "P.S.: In case you were wondering, Asperger's is not a contagious disease."

  10. Guest says:

    Dear Mike,

    Having read your e-mail, I have decided that I do want to go out with you and I am writing this note to let you know as you requested.

    Best,
    Lauren

  11. Guest says:

    TLDR

    – Lauren

  12. TEd says:

    These guys are the Green Bay Packers of creepiness. I hope Lauren doesn't raise rabbits.

  13. Guest_of_Honor says:

    I think he has a pretty good chance.

    – UBS Dating Quant

  14. Happy Ending? says:

    Good to see he's willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

  15. Guest says:

    (Really hoping he gets the second date so we can read about the third date following the second date, which came after the first date)

    "I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. … Normally, I wouldn’t ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential. If you don’t want to go again, then apparently you didn’t think our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. … It’s good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date."

  16. Guest says:

    "Of course, it’s difficult to predict what would happen, but I think there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship developing between us one day (or least there was before your non-response to my voicemail and text messages).

    I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date."

    This one got me, laughed pretty fucking hard.

  17. Mike says:

    You guys don't get it. Trust me, her body english went straight to my loins like a Japanese Torpedo.

  18. Mystery says:

    What an AFC…

  19. pazzo83 says:

    "According to the Internet, you are…"

    That is definitely something that you want to say to a girl.

    • Guest says:

      My personal favorite is this well-crafted panty-dropper: "I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you."

  20. Guest says:

    Mike,

    WHY WON'T YOU LISTEN????

    – Double Down Trent

  21. Guest says:

    "Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven’t returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again."

    Playing hard to get. Nice work.

  22. Quanterrific says:

    He didn't quantify the amount of eye contact per minute. How is she expected to respond without complete information?

  23. A Trader says:

    I'd bet mike is either a quant or a CFA candidate.

    – Guy who loves it when people try to apply advanced analysis to real life

  24. guest says:

    I won't be ingored, Lauren !!!!!

  25. Guest says:

    That's where I started to think fake. But this is almost too retarded to be fake.

  26. Patrick Bateman says:

    Well, let's just say hypothetically, ok? What if they have a great personality?

  27. pazzo83 says:

    "I don’t think I’m being delusional in saying this statement."

    Mike, why don't you do some regression tests on Lauren's word frequency to validate this hypothesis of yours?

  28. Bandersnatch says:

    Sheldon Cooper?

  29. Max Cady says:

    Wow, that guy is tenacious.

    • FrGuidoSarducci says:

      and a d, but, sadly, not Tenacious D. Otherwise he would know that sometimes you have to * her gently

  30. pazzo83 says:

    The letter honestly reads as if it were written by a 5th grader with access to a thesaurus (and Google, apparently).

  31. lar says:

    I urge you at your earliest convenience to kindly call me at 212-CRAZY since this letter has gotten me laid often in the past.

  32. Markus Niku says:

    First, we’ve both very intelligent.

  33. T Money says:

    I don't want you to be the guy in the PG-13 movie where everyone's really hoping he gets the second date. I want you to be like the guy in the rated R movie, you know, the guy you're not sure whether or not you like yet. You're not sure where he's coming from. Okay? You're a bad man. You're a bad man, Mikey. You're a bad man, bad man.

  34. agreatdaytothink says:

    He has me convinced that he had a strong case until he wrote:

    "I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you"

    – Guy who knows the correct preposition is "by" and not "from"

  35. Mexi_Cant says:

    The druries are here! The druries are here!

  36. Guestface Killer says:

    "I’ll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, … classical music … classical music … classical music … classical music … NY Philharmonic … NY Philharmonic … It would be very convenient for you to date me … classical music … classical music … it wouldn’t take any significant additional time on your part. According to the internet, you’re 33 or 32 … I could name more things that we have in common, but I’ll stop here."

    If only he had mentioned that he's into classical music!

  37. Kenneth Marsh says:

    Alone, the David and Mike are incredible, together they are unstoppable

    • Guest says:

      Those words sound familiar… Anywho, next go round don't ask her what she's thinking, just make her sit at the children's table; she'll go crazy for it.

      – George Soros

    • FKAFinkNottle says:

      Bravo!

      – Box seat patron at the NY Philharmonic

  38. Tenacious D says:

    Just 1 email so far? What is this? Amateur night?

    -David Gray, JP Morgan Analyst and "Gangsta of Love"

  39. Guest says:

    I enjoyed the letter a lot more when I imagined it being dictated by Mark Wahlberg in "Fear"

  40. Kegels123 says:

    Mike-

    You're so money and you don't even know it!

    -Trent

  41. Sleeper says:

    Don't worry fella, 57 no's and 1 yes is all it takes….

    – UBS Persistence Quant

  42. Aleksey Vayner says:

    " I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer."

    — It's assholes like this that ruin it for the rest of us.

  43. Still-Single says:

    Dear Mike

    If this lady is 33 and still single, it's going to take a hell of lot more than a Wikipedia link to figure her out.

    Good Luck

    Jaded 37 year old dude

  44. Barney Stinson says:

    Mike

    We need a to talk again – when I told you persistence pays off, this isn't what I meant.

    — Barnabas

  45. Ram-Man says:

    David,

    Got a tip for you: just lower your standards, like, altogether. Meet me in Zuchottie to discuss.

    -Rami

  46. Cut Me says:

    Now I know how to get rid of all those 9's that keep calling and asking for my debit card.

  47. Texashedge says:

    "New York Investment Banker Sends 1,615 Word Email Re: You Leading Him On During Your Date Together "

    I think we're being a bit fast and loose with the term "investment banker"

  48. davidrusso says:

    Would have been 1,631 words except he reasonably assumed that "I'm writing this in my own blood while masturbating to the latest issue of Asperger's Weekly" was implied.

  49. Ehhhh.... says:

    A. She must have had really, really nice boobies

    OR

    B. He's batshit crazy and off his meds

  50. Ed Gein says:

    Mike: "When I see a pretty girl walking down the street, I think two things. One part wants me to take her out, talk to her, be real nice and sweet and treat her right."
    David: And what did the other part think?
    Mike: "What her head would look like on a stick

  51. Guest says:

    I would love to put this guy in a formaldehyde filled tank and display him in the lobby.

    -Horseplay Futures Quant

  52. guest says:

    MIke,

    I think you have a real chance here.

    -Lloyd

  53. Steve Lattimer says:

    What were ya doin', LEADING ME ON?!

  54. Guest CFA says:

    If he's really made "millions" for his family fund and if he was really serious about the relationship, he should have attached a form of pre-nup. Otherwise, its just words (not even a pitchbook with charts and graphs).

  55. Nervous_NonJew says:

    Can Matt really be that obsessed with the CFA?

  56. Male_Men_stral says:

    My first thought of the DB day was; there seems to be clitoris envy running through these threads. But not now

  57. WCrasher says:

    What a loser!!!

    -DSK

  58. Guest says:

    Delete the first 4 paragraphs. Then it becomes very readable.

  59. RichardCripples says:

    Sending emails is for pussies.

    – V. van Gogh

  60. new hire says:

    holy shit. this explains that loser i went out with last week. walking the other way, as quickly as possible.

  61. agreatdaytothink says:

    See Mike, what really happened is I was sitting behind you at the restaurant. Your girl kept twirling her hair and straining to see past you, to make eye contact with me. I felt bad for you really, but after she slid me a napkin with her number and email address written on it on her way back from the bathroom, I figured all bets are off.

    – Guy who tapped Lauren later that night and never called her again.

  62. Guest says:

    I'll give him credit for including the classic Al Green lyric: "things that happened on our date include, but are not limited to, the following"

  63. guest says:

    dealbreaker: men who work in finance. if there are any ladies reading this (which i doubt, because it is such a waste of time that could be spent in a spinning/pilates/sculpting class), engineers are less needy/clingy and easier to use and throw away.

  64. Guest says:

    Dear Lauren,

    On behalf of the Sheinhardt wig company I would like to apologize for the problems you experienced while wearing our newest product, "The JP Morgan Intern."

    – Jack Donaghy

  65. FinneganKristiansen says:

    The level of danger she is in is somewhat masked by her name not being Clarice.

  66. I'm a Dude says:

    the only person I would chase after like this would one Bess Levin from Dealbreaker. all others not worth it

  67. SSchaffer says:

    I have to return some videotapes.
    -P. Bateman

  68. guest says:

    smooth

  69. Dennis says:

    "If you don’t want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life."

    You're supposed to threaten them anonymously. You idiot!

  70. Shouldn't you be writing Mike a long love letter back tonight and telling him you like the Philharmonic  too….? (and of course don't forget to tell him you like twirling your hair between your fingers either, that'll definitely send him over the edge ladies).
    http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2011/12/yikes-rej

  71. Matt Levine says:

    "People don’t grow on trees."

    Damn, this guy can write.

  72. TheodoreBallgamePhD says:

    I like how Mike explained to Whoren the "utility he gets" from her feedback. Also, his explanation of the irrationality of going out with him if he wasn't attractive. I find girls like to be spoken to like you're in an economics lecture. But then again, I am basically a doctor and Mike, clearly, is not.

    I bet he is an Assistant Vice President at UBS.

  73. leftcoast says:

    Mike, I concur that it’s statistically significant.

    -UBS Hair Playing Quant

  74. Guest says:

    Safe to say Lauren will never go to the philharmonic again.

    – LEH Stalking Quant

  75. inlovewithpmco says:

    PMCO that was harsh, did you really lead him on like that?

  76. Smooth Operator says:

    This might be my favorite DB post of all time… An update on how this story ends would put it over the top.

  77. vinny says:

    ^^^ Yup that's the guy. Michael Fantasia. I contacted the current work to verify him and was told he was let go from there as well. Creep

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