Tags: Carson Block, dialogues, Muddy Waters, ninja assassins, Sino-Forest, trees or lack thereof
Earlier this month, Muddy Waters founder Carson Block published a report describing Sino-Forest as “a Ponzi scheme…investing for the 23rd century.” The note did not have a positive effect on the company’s stock price and major shareholder John Paulson ended up pulling his entire investment. Appearing on Bloomberg TV earlier today for a little post-mortem, Block wanted to get a couple things straight.
1. The S&P downgrade of Sino-Forest bonds? Bull shit.
“I’d think that it’s a bit of a cop out on the part of S&P. We published this almost a month ago. The company has had a microphone and a platform to respond. When it has opened its mouth, the company, the stocks and bonds have gone lower. Rather than having anything confidence inspiring to say, they have continued to spook investors. S&P may want to hang this on us, but I have a feeling that is really a cover for, at least in part, their own assessment that there are significant risks that are company specific not related to market perception and Muddy Waters.”
2. The mistaken impression some people have that he’s a ninja assassin? Also bull shit.
“I am getting uncomfortable, actually, with this idea that we are ninja assassins that are going to take this stock price down a huge percentage within minutes or days. What I would like to do to protect investors is that I would like to point out the issues and start a dialogue and get people thinking about these red flags before we come out with a report that sends the stock down 70%, 80%.”
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Tags: Carson Block, China, Dundee Capital Markets, John Paulson, Muddy Waters, piles of crap, Sino-Forest, trees or lack thereof
“We are going to provide you with some information on why Muddy Waters research [on Sino-Forest] is a pile of crap,” said Richard Kelertas, an analyst at Dundee Capital Markets, during a conference call he held with clients on Tuesday afternoon. “We believe there’s nothing true in that report.” [FP, earlier]
Tags: Carson Block, John Paulson, Muddy Waters, Ponzi schemes, Sino-Forest, this is just another day at the office for us
MW’s Carson Block: It’s a Ponzi scheme in that the company perpetually issues securities in order to fund itself. Even by its own fraudulent numbers, the company does not generate any free cash and has not done so in sixteen years. Were the company be unable to issue additional securities to fund itself, it would collapse. That to me is the definition or epitomizes the definition of a Ponzi. “In this situation, the company appears to be investing for the 23rd century. It’s sixteen straight years burning cash, no guidance as to what the rationale is to acquire so many trees so far ahead of customer orders. This is taking a capex fraud–we have found several of these in China–it’s taking it to the next level where you’re not constrained by the walls of a factory and no one is able to really see the movement of physical goods. It could grow to be infinite provided that the capital markets continue to fund it.” Read more »